Alternative Theory on the Plot of CC in relation to CT

[Elvis_Maximus]

I realize I haven't been here too long, however I've been reading the various theories, etc. in the Encyclopedia and I believe I've found one thing you didn't account for.



I believe that CC must have been based off of the ending you get before you complete all the sidequests, or at least when you destroyed the epoch. Or that the event scheme as detailed by CC must have been based in yet another alternate dimension for a few reasons.


One being that there is no way that Poore could've fielded a large enough army to defeat Guardia. If they had the elements, Crono, Marle and Lucca had magic as well. Crono alone could defeat Lavos after all, it would take a rather sizeable force to defeat him alone.


Even assuming that Poore could've fielded that large an army (and if they did have a standing army that large, Guardia must've had one at least that large as well... no country disarms when another country is still armed), if the Epoch hadn't been destroyed Crono could've fielded the help of the rest of the group (I don't believe that epoch was fueled by Lavos, and Lavos was still alive in 1005 AD anyway).


Assuming that the forest had something to do with Poore taking over, keep in mind that this forest had been regrowing for 400 years, it wasn't new and Guardia would've known about it. For them to stay in control as long as they did they must've had a capable general and some form of standing army. Once again, once a fight goes into harsh terrain, a power advantage doesn't matter (look at us fighting in Vietnam as a good example, true that we didn't have magical elemental powers, but we had napalm and bombs and bullets). As such, I find it very hard to believe that Poore could've overwhelmed Guardia, even with elements and the like, as easily as they apparently did.


Also, lets look at the timeframe. 5 years, as has been stated before, is a very short time to go from friendly and social neighbors to bitter enemies. Since Poore (in CT) had a very, very small population, it would've certainly taken them at least 2 or 3 years to gather and train a competent army, and assuming the elemental theory they would've had to been trained to use those as well. That leaves 3 or 2 years to fight a war against the largest and most dominant power in the world at that point, not to mention the people who managed to save the world from the most powerful force (by far) at that point, and it would've had to be all of them assuming the epoch still existed. I find myself extremely sceptical (spelling?) about them managing to win the war with Guardia in that short period of time. My guess? They would've deadlocked at Zenan bridge, just the same as Magus' forces 400 or some years earlier (note that Magus' troops had some magic as well, only theres was innate).

These ideas just don't add up to a victory for Poore in the required time frame, which leads to the idea that somehow there must've been a dimension change...


The deciding factor here is the Epoch, thus the split must've accorded on the decision to either destroy the epoch or not. With the Epoch, even if the war started going badly for Guardia, Crono and the group could've gone back a few years and prevented Poore from getting the elements or what not. In  fact, they could've prevented this from ever happening with the epoch (with all the benefits and losses that entails). Without some qualification on whether they crash it or not, the theory just doesn't work. Why couldn't they change history yet again?

That's just my opinion though...

[CyberSarkany]

I think the spots in time Eposh can reach are defined, otherwise they could also go to 12xxx BC and stop the Mammon machine to be built, or they could go to 1998 AD and study about Lavos...whatever...so they couldn't just go back and destroy Porre to prevent the war...

[Elvis_Maximus]

Perhaps, but why a dial and not some form of reader?


Besides, the Guru of time only told them about specific years, but it HAD to have been able to go to specific times, else how come when they could go back to various eras the things they had done stayed changed? If they could only go back to exactly 600 AD there should've been infinite copies of themselves or some such... blah



By the way, just nitpicking but, I never said anything about destroying Poore, I said preventing them from getting the elements or whatnot

[Chrono'99]

It's Porre.

And they had more than 12,405 years to change from a small port to a militaristic state, not just 5 years. It's 1,000AD to 2,400AD, then Time Crash, then ~10,000BC to 1,005AD. PLUS an intervention from something from outside the normal flow of time, according to Masato Kato.

[Zaperking]

If that was the case, Chrono, Guardia definitely would not be in charge...

As for Lavos - he is dead since he died in the PD or whatever. Epoch is said to be fueled on the total sum of all human spirits, hopes and dreams.

As for Crono and co defeating Lavos, I seriously do take what Gaspar said as being true, he has no reason to lie - with everyone whom they met, they got stronger for their one objective, to kill Lavos.
No one can still explain why Lucca could not fight off Lynx in her house or in Chronopolis.

No one can explain why Marle and Crono could not fight off the invasion, and why they probably died or had to flee.

Hence, I always did think that once the quest was over, their powers would weaken, just like Spekkio had said that people with magic did and will lose them over time. It's like a counter-balance to make sure that they don't abuse it if they have it forever. Thinking logically, if Crono had become possessed by the Masamune, then by everyones logic that he's so strong, Guardia and Porre or the whole world would not be standing >.> BTW, it took 3 people to fight Lavos, or maybe 7 because for that event, there shouldn't be a canon group that fought Lavos, so maybe they all could have gone there. 4 by the bucket and 3 by the epoch.

Anyway, most people can only think of 2 outside of time forces. FATE and Dinopolis. FATE did a lousy ass job keeping the Porrians out of El Nido, and hence they probably got some elements. Even if they did not, Porre somehow aquired guns and lasers, which only Lucca was capable of making at the time.

[Sentenal]

As for Crono and co defeating Lavos, I seriously do take what Gaspar said as being true, he has no reason to lie - with everyone whom they met, they got stronger for their one objective, to kill Lavos.
No one can still explain why Lucca could not fight off Lynx in her house or in Chronopolis.

They did get stronger.  Its called experiance points.  Other than that, its figurative.  Lucca probably wasn't able to fight off Lynx because she was probably caught off guard, the house was burning, and she probably wasn't properly equiped to fight.

Hence, I always did think that once the quest was over, their powers would weaken, just like Spekkio had said that people with magic did and will lose them over time. It's like a counter-balance to make sure that they don't abuse it if they have it forever. Thinking logically, if Crono had become possessed by the Masamune, then by everyones logic that he's so strong, Guardia and Porre or the whole world would not be standing >.> BTW, it took 3 people to fight Lavos, or maybe 7 because for that event, there shouldn't be a canon group that fought Lavos, so maybe they all could have gone there. 4 by the bucket and 3 by the epoch.

Eh?  When did he say that?  He said this:

  But in time, people began to abuse
   their powers. It got so bad that no
   one was allowed to use magic except
   wizards.

He didn't say anything about Magic powers fading.

[Zaperking]

But we know that their powers faded. Remember, no one but Zeal, Schala, Magus, Dalton and the Gurus had their powers after the fall of Zeal. That's why all those Zealians were like "OMFG NOO HOW WILL I SURVIVE" and the Earthbound ones were "Seize teh day"

[V_Translanka]

I think that's because Zeal never allowed the other Zealian's magical power to actually be unlocked. They were only 'charged' w/Lavos' power ala the Mammon Machine, just like the Pendant. Thus, seperated from said Mammon Machine, their magical powers were lost.

[Zaperking]

It's not to be unlocked, it's to use it. Or that everyone was to lazy to learn it. I mean, it's most likely that the true magic was Shadow, and everything that can be unlocked split off into Lightning/Fire/Water.

Anyway, that wouldn't explain the quote. How can people have abused magic that it was banned and no one was able to use it except wizards... that sounds more like mystics, and yet they were not humans. This whole situation sounds like the FF6 situation with espers.

[Chrono'99]

According to the Japanese version, Spekkio spoke about Mystics (Mazoku), not "wizards". It was said on some topic but I forgot which one.

[CyberSarkany]

About the Epoch thingy, time still goes on, even with epoch, meaning: If you stay 1 year in 600 AD, then go to 1000 AD, you can only go back to 601 AD. For example Tyrano Lair or the Fall of Zeal, if you stay at Zeal untill it falls, then go to the end of time, your just able to go to the fall of Zeal. I think...

About destroying Porre, this is easier for Crono and co than preventing it to get Elements.

[V_Translanka]

We don't really know what would happen in the Chronoverse if you stayed in a certain time period for a year and then traveled from and back to it. There's no real game evidence to support any theory on that.

[CyberSarkany]

Maybe not for a long time like a year, but you arrive at 12000 BC before Zeal falls, but after the fall, you can just access this "after fall" 12000 BC. Same for Tyrano Lair, or the Futur(sapling). If time wouldn't go on and you would always arrive at exact the same timespot, you could always visit Zeal, because the spot would've been set before the fall.

[Chrono'99]

Basically when you are in 1,000AD and you go to 600AD, you don't go "to 600AD" but you actually just go 400 years back in time.

[Sentenal]

But we know that their powers faded. Remember, no one but Zeal, Schala, Magus, Dalton and the Gurus had their powers after the fall of Zeal. That's why all those Zealians were like "OMFG NOO HOW WILL I SURVIVE" and the Earthbound ones were "Seize teh day"

It's not to be unlocked, it's to use it. Or that everyone was to lazy to learn it. I mean, it's most likely that the true magic was Shadow, and everything that can be unlocked split off into Lightning/Fire/Water.

Anyway, that wouldn't explain the quote. How can people have abused magic that it was banned and no one was able to use it except wizards... that sounds more like mystics, and yet they were not humans. This whole situation sounds like the FF6 situation with espers.

I had questions of this myself, but Zealians apparently had their magic power tied to Lavos/Mamon Machine, or previously the Sun Stone.  Zeal, Dalton, Crono, Magus, etc are apparently "Innate" users, who don't draw on other's powers for magic.  Thats the only way explain why some lost magical ability, and others didn't.  Zealians lost their ability because they had lost the Mamon Machine.  Others didn't, for some reason.

And Spekkio "unlocked" Crono and co's latent magical ability, and taught them to use it.  Its important to realize he didn't give them anything other than the knowledge to use magic.