The Einlanzer

[ShoeMagus]

There's something so immensely bothersome about this. I keep hearing that Melichior made it. As a sister sword to the Masamune. But this doesn't seem right.

The Einlanzer is a drasticallly different sword though. The Masamune absorbs and intensifies the emotions of the user. The Einlanzer seems wholly good and incorruptible.

The Masamune seems a sword more of the Zenan continent and Guardia. Einlanzer seems more suited for the Acacia Dragoons. But then again this might just be through associations.

What really got me thinking though, was the reference in Chrono Cross to the Einlanzer being mentioned in connection with the word dragon or dragonic (can't remember which.)

The Dragonians? Could the Dragonians have made the Einlanzer? Could the Einlanzer be the Dinopolis dimension parallel to the Masamune?

Its just an observation. What exactly connects it to Melechior?

[Mystik3eb]

Its just an observation. What exactly connects it to Melechior?

Nothing beyond Radical Dreamers. I'd actually agree with your theory about it being made by the Dragonians or whoever. No real evidence of anything, though.

[Dragoness]

Hm..

I will have to agree I think Einlanzer is almost the Dragonians's Masamune(Just that it more holy.).

Hello..

Look at what I found on the CC Script.

Radius:
   Only the dragon sword,
   Einlanzer, can break the
   seal of the Masamune.
   
Norris:
   The Einlanzer?
   The sword forged by
   ancient Dragonians?
   
Member:
   The Einlanzer?
   
Radius:
   Yes...
   The legendary holy sword,
   forged by the Dragonites...
   I have placed that sword to rest
   beside its rightful owner, Garai.
   May he rest in peace
   within that cavern...
   Although it pains me
   to disturb his eternal sleep,
   we have no other choice...

I think this help your theory even more.

[V_Translanka]

Yup, you can now change "theory" to "common knowledge" even!

is right

[Chrono'99]

In RD, it was apparently Melchior who forged the Einlanzer. This prooves that RD takes place in a different dimension than CT/CC even if it shares many similarities with CT.

"If you must search that room, be sure you have the Einlanzer with you
before you do."
"Eye-what?" Kid asks.
"It is a holy white sword, created long ago by ancient sages along with its
demonic brother, the Masamune.
It was the Acacia Dragoons' most prized weapon. It once glided through the
air in Zorander's hand, shimmering like a star...
Now, however, the Dragoons are all but extinct, and the sword has been
stored somewhere in this mansion, as though it was some sort of trivial
memento...
It is much more than a common sword, though. Shielded by its magical
enchantment, its bearer will be protected against many forms of evil."

[Zaperking]

Ancient Sages means more than one. Hence, it'd mean that Gaspar, Belthasar and Melchior had to have made it. But Dragonite sages could also count. And if for instance both were made out of Dreamstone, them being called brothers would be symbolic, even if they were not indeed crafted by the same person.

[Chrono'99]

Ancient Sages means more than one. Hence, it'd mean that Gaspar, Belthasar and Melchior had to have made it. But Dragonite sages could also count. And if for instance both were made out of Dreamstone, them being called brothers would be symbolic, even if they were not indeed crafted by the same person.

Magil clearly says it was created along with the Masamune, so it can only have been made by the same guy(s) who made the Masamune. I doubt it could be Dragonians, they don't even exist in RD. The Dragonians are from CC, a game which was made 4 years after CT (RD was made only 1 year after CT). Square didn't even intend RD to be a sequel to CT when they first started the game development, so it's hard to believe that Masato Kato already had the Dragonians and the whole Project Kid in his mind at that time.

Moreover, don't forget that the Gurus were called Sages in the Japanese version of CT. Belthasar in the American version of CC also states that he was once called the Sage of Reason. Thus I'm inclined to think that this RD quote is a direct reference to Melchior and his comrades.

[ShoeMagus]

Ancient Sages means more than one. Hence, it'd mean that Gaspar, Belthasar and Melchior had to have made it. But Dragonite sages could also count. And if for instance both were made out of Dreamstone, them being called brothers would be symbolic, even if they were not indeed crafted by the same person.

Magil clearly says it was created along with the Masamune, so it can only have been made by the same guy(s) who made the Masamune. I doubt it could be Dragonians, they don't even exist in RD. The Dragonians are from CC, a game which was made 4 years after CT (RD was made only 1 year after CT). Square didn't even intend RD to be a sequel to CT when they first started the game development, so it's hard to believe that Masato Kato already had the Dragonians and the whole Project Kid in his mind at that time.

Moreover, don't forget that the Gurus were called Sages in the Japanese version of CT. Belthasar in the American version of CC also states that he was once called the Sage of Reason. Thus I'm inclined to think that this RD quote is a direct reference to Melchior and his comrades.

Well CC was more of an official Sequel. It could very well be in RD that the Einlanzer was created by Melichior. But like has been rehashed over and over again, that isn't neccessarily what happened, except in another dimension.

The Einlanzer being a sister or brother sword makes sense in the Dragonian perpsective. Made as the Dragonian dimension version of the Masamune, they are very well brother/sister swords. I mean, who can say whether the Dragonians didn't have their own Melechior, Gaspar, and Belthasar. We can't really as they didn't have the Kingdom of Zeal and the problem of Lavos. They DID whoever have powers connected directly with the Earth.

If I understand correctly, Dragonians didn't have Dreamstone. And we really don't know what the Einlanzer is made from. It never says in CC. Dreamstone is the obvious choice, but why then does it have seemingly none of the Masamune's qualities? Or has too much good been imbued in it? If so then why wasn't it affected by Garai's vengeful ghost?

It points to perhaps being a relic from the Dragonian's dimension's past, or made after they crossed over (then having access to the Dreamstone.)

[AuraTwilight]

Heh. If anything, the Dragonians would have MORE Dreamstone. But I think that when the Dragonians crossed over, they created Einlanzer as a counter to Masamune, which may or may not have been used in the Polis War. Anyway, it doesn't matter. One, I seriously doubt they just HAPPENED to have a polar opposite to Masamune without having knowledge of Masamune's existence, and Two, It strengthens the Dragonian Vs. Human symbolism.

[Chrono'99]

Ancient Sages means more than one. Hence, it'd mean that Gaspar, Belthasar and Melchior had to have made it. But Dragonite sages could also count. And if for instance both were made out of Dreamstone, them being called brothers would be symbolic, even if they were not indeed crafted by the same person.

Magil clearly says it was created along with the Masamune, so it can only have been made by the same guy(s) who made the Masamune. I doubt it could be Dragonians, they don't even exist in RD. The Dragonians are from CC, a game which was made 4 years after CT (RD was made only 1 year after CT). Square didn't even intend RD to be a sequel to CT when they first started the game development, so it's hard to believe that Masato Kato already had the Dragonians and the whole Project Kid in his mind at that time.

Moreover, don't forget that the Gurus were called Sages in the Japanese version of CT. Belthasar in the American version of CC also states that he was once called the Sage of Reason. Thus I'm inclined to think that this RD quote is a direct reference to Melchior and his comrades.

Well CC was more of an official Sequel. It could very well be in RD that the Einlanzer was created by Melichior. But like has been rehashed over and over again, that isn't neccessarily what happened, except in another dimension.

You misread my post. I was speaking only about the RD dimension. Now for the CT/CC dimension, it's a fact as it has been quoted by Dragoness that the Dragonites were the ones who forged the CC Einlanzer.

The Einlanzer being a sister or brother sword makes sense in the Dragonian perpsective. Made as the Dragonian dimension version of the Masamune, they are very well brother/sister swords. I mean, who can say whether the Dragonians didn't have their own Melechior, Gaspar, and Belthasar. We can't really as they didn't have the Kingdom of Zeal and the problem of Lavos. They DID whoever have powers connected directly with the Earth.

If I understand correctly, Dragonians didn't have Dreamstone. And we really don't know what the Einlanzer is made from. It never says in CC. Dreamstone is the obvious choice, but why then does it have seemingly none of the Masamune's qualities? Or has too much good been imbued in it? If so then why wasn't it affected by Garai's vengeful ghost?

It points to perhaps being a relic from the Dragonian's dimension's past, or made after they crossed over (then having access to the Dreamstone.)

We don't know at all if Dragonians had Dreamstone. They might or might not have any in their time-line. There doesn't seem to be any Dreamstone in Terra Tower but it doesn't mean anything since it's a tower most probably built millions of years after prehistory. In the CT dimension, you didn't see any Dreamstone neither after 12,000 BC except for the Masamune and the Pendant.

[Zaperking]

We can't really say for certain that the Dragonites aren't in RD.  Viper Manor could not have been made in El Nido without the Dragonians also being there. El Nido will always mean that FATE created it, and that the Earth pulls in Dinopolis. I think that Masato Kato and crew had a vauge idea of what they were going to do for CC.

[V_Translanka]

In RD, it was apparently Melchior who forged the Einlanzer. This prooves that RD takes place in a different dimension than CT/CC even if it shares many similarities with CT.

It doesn't prove that about CT as CT has no Einlanzer.

[Chrono'99]

We can't really say for certain that the Dragonites aren't in RD.  Viper Manor could not have been made in El Nido without the Dragonians also being there. El Nido will always mean that FATE created it, and that the Earth pulls in Dinopolis. I think that Masato Kato and crew had a vauge idea of what they were going to do for CC.

The RD Viper Manor isn't in some El Nido archipelago but in some region on the mainland (Regiorra, Gherbuele something? I forgot). It's hard to believe Kato had an idea for CC as the development of RD wasn't even meant to have anything to do with CT to begin with... And why would Kato have a Dinopolis concept for RD? The only scenaristic reason for having put Dinopolis in CC was for the Chrono Cross' creation (the Element). There's no mention of this Element in RD and there's no Time Devourer to use the Element on.

Why would Kato have a vague idea of the CC plot (= an idea of Project Kid) while RD simply negates the necessity to set this plot in motion? (Project Kid is for saving Schala from Lavos, but in RD Schala never fused with Lavos to begin with).

[Zaperking]

Well, the thing with elements. Serge tried using "Inferno" but it failed. No human should have or know that magic exists. Elements on the other hand were widely known about in El Nido. If Serge's element thing wasn't full yet, he might not have been able to cast it.

BTW, I always thought that Regiorra and Grezenbule were just prototype names for like Termina, Arni etc.

[ShoeMagus]

Having a parallel Dragonian version isn't dependant on the Dragonians knowing about the Masamune. I would imagine they didn't know about Chronopolis yet they still had a Dinopolis.