Author Topic: True nature of Dreamstone  (Read 3878 times)

Daggart

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True nature of Dreamstone
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2004, 10:25:06 pm »
I seem to remember it saying that the Zealians themselves (zealites? Zelots?) used to use the sunstone for power until they started using the dreamstone.

Even if that wasn't explicitly stated (I'll try and look it up now) the fact that the sunpalace looks to be Zeal manufactured implies that Zeal used the stone at some point.

Jikkuryuu

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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2004, 02:45:58 pm »
Ayla's village wasn't the only one however.
The other village had a chief/elder who might have had some dreamstone. Also, the members of that village had purple hair. At some point in time (they had almost 65 million years to try) they could have taken control and then after Zeal fell the Guardia line would have picked up the slack. The members of the non-Ayla village (sorry I can't remember the name) chose to hide from the reptites rather than fight, which may have been an indication of improved mental development (not lavos-based, but maybe a precursor?).
I don't think it is likely but I should mention it anyway, could Lavos's power reached earth a significant amount of time before his arrival?

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2004, 07:16:56 pm »
Ioka and Laruba are the tribes.

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2005, 02:45:17 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY

Quote from: Face in Terra Tower
When I was still human, I was locked up here, and I have been here ever since...
This tower is a fortress belonging to the ancient Reptites... A symbol of revenge,
brought against mankind by the Dragons... With the defeat of FATE, the seal has been
broken and this tower has surfaced... In the eyes of the Dragons, we humans are the
foes... A brain that has developed abnormally to 3 times the original size in the span
of 3 million years
... We humans have evolved at an enormous rate because of our
contact with Lavos's flame... In a sense, mankind is Lavos's offspring... We humans
are extraneous to this planet... Now... How will you fight, Serge...


The latter quote seals the deal by noting that contact with the Frozen Flame occurred around 3,000,000 B.C., whereas humans had long been using Dreamstone. I don't believe size is relevant, since the Mammon Machine dwarfs the stature of the Flame itself.


I don't want to sound like an ass but how do you figure the date of 3,000,000 B.C.? All that quote says is that 3 million years is the span at which the evolutionary process occured. For all we know it could have been from 65,000,000 B.C. to 62,000,000 B.C., since that is when the flame separated from Lavos. Just seems a little odd to me, thats all.

saridon

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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2005, 03:42:53 am »
er this may e an old thread but i have to ask WHY do so many people belive that the dragonians are always right they say that the FF caused humans to evolved from apes when we see ayla and that already there not as apes who are stupid caus if they had there brain size 3 timesed in 1000AD they would be  alot smarter considering how smart ayla is besides thats what the dragonians BELIVED to happend while we saw what actualy happened to to CT ....or since the other village hid in the forest and had blue hair and in CC it states that the timid apes hid in the forests mabye it was the other village that came into contact with the flame developed better mental development and magic and after mills of years the bod between villages became forrgoten and the other vilage inslaved ioka while  ioka vilage later to form guardia due to ayla being marles ancestor devloped no magic powers but then why did crono and co suddenly became able to unlock the abillity to use magic the answer is this since the zealians developed the gene that let them use magic and after zeal was destroyed he remaing few zealians ended up living with the earthbound ones ,the zealians passed the gene onto the next generation of children and since then the gene became dorment and only could be brought back into a non-dorment state by say spekko and this may account why the planet/entity hates and likes the humans at the same time cause the other village hated the reptiles while ioka dident like them they dident hate them as proved by ayla when she wants azealia(did i spell that right?) to come with them after killing the black tyranno so the planet hated the other village after they came into contact with the flame and enslaved ioka when azealia(er?? spelling) ask if the heavens/entity had sided with the apes this isent true the entity knew that lavos would fall and the ice age would kill the reptile's so it did nothing to intervene it originally made it so the humans would live with the reptles ill stop now before i completly go off topic srry

razor's edge

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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2005, 01:33:13 pm »
The Earthbound Ones didn't seem to have decreased mental capacity, they just weren't to be able to use magic--after the fall of Zeal, one of the former Enlightened Ones says that no distinction remains between them and the Earthbound Ones. Also, not all of the Enlightened Ones died, and over 13000 years the genetic marker for magic would be passed down from generation to generation and would find it's way into the majority of the humans, if not all of the humans.  13000 years is a long time.

saridon

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« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2005, 01:20:35 am »
thats what i said though i may have put it differently i was sugesting that the FF gave the enlightend ones the power to use magic i simply quoted some from chrono cross srry i should have said that in it but the date that the chronopolis had was wrong what they said what happend the #x brain size thing happened way before they predicted

razor's edge

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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2005, 01:55:29 am »
Yeah, I don't know about that 3 times increase in brain size thing, Ayla and the Ioka aren't THAT stupid.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2005, 01:59:20 am »
To simply put it this way, Chronopolis was right about the brain thing. It would have happened regardless, but the Flame significantly sped the process up, creating "flawed creatures"--according to the Reptites, who I honestly believe are not credible due to their bias against humans. The difference between those in Zeal, and the Earthbound is likely a difference in exposure, or proximity.

Think about it, once it was discovered how powerful this object was, it would likely become a well-guarded treasure. The tribe that held the Flame would probably have been the one to eventually become Zeal--the CT equivalent of some legends of Atlantis--Which is where 1 of 2 things would probably account for magic.

Exposure

Zeal held the Frozen Flame, and once the Mammon Machine was built, it channeled more of the same energy. This energy may have fueled Magic within its citizens once absorbed by the radiating energies. This would also account for certain people (Magus) having their power permanently drained by Lavos.

Proximity

Since the Flame was kept thousands of miles above ground in the kingdom, the Zealians were far closer to it. Perhaps everybody had the ability to use magic, but only those near the flame could use it. There are several holes in this theory. As to why Serge and Co can't use magic when they're next to it, and why Magus can still use Magic in 600 A.D.

Of course, feel free to help/kill either of those theories.

razor's edge

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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2005, 02:22:31 am »
While the Frozen Flame evolved the humans to be able to use magic, they didn't get their magic from the Frozen Flame. They originally got their magic from the Sun Stone, and then the Mammon Machine.

And what do you mean by Magus having his magic drained by Lavos? Magus was an innate--Lavos couldn't take Magus's magic away because Lavos wasn't the source (not directly at least). With the Enlightened Ones who survived the fall of Zeal, Lavos could take their magic away because they were not innates, they relied on the Mammon Machine for their powers.

What I meant by the brain thing is that 3x the brain mass is a big number, considering that the Ioka's heads don't look to be half as small as the evolved people's heads.

saridon

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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2005, 02:56:18 am »
i just thought of something maby when the FF was found ioka village gave it to the other village because they werent as brave or good fighter since he other village is quite far away from ioka the people of ioka village wernt affcted or not so much as too make a difference while the ther village had the gene that allowed them to use magic  and after ioka was inslaved the other village seperated into 2 classs royalty and whatever well he royalty would have kept the FF with them and they probally distanced them selves from the lower class so the lower class were then affectted less by the flame this allowed them to use magic while near a source of great energy being radiated i.e FF, mamon machine whil  thr royalty were affected more and became innate magic users and so they could use magic anywhere since you dont see the FF anywhere in CT it denounces this theory but maby the FF was used as th core for the mamon machine and it teleported to the pocket dimension where you fight the mamon machineand stayed there to emerge later in 1020 AD in ...
(damn forgot CC place damn mind blanks)

GreenGannon

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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2005, 02:57:36 am »
Quote from: razor's edge
While the Frozen Flame evolved the humans to be able to use magic, they didn't get their magic from the Frozen Flame. They originally got their magic from the Sun Stone, and then the Mammon Machine.


They scrapped the Sun Stone in favor of Lavos's energy. The idea to build the Mammon machine--which would provide the same power as the Flame, just more of it--came from the fact that Lavos was strong, if not for the flame, how else would they know of him?

Quote
And what do you mean by Magus having his magic drained by Lavos? Magus was an innate--Lavos couldn't take Magus's magic away because Lavos wasn't the source (not directly at least). With the Enlightened Ones who survived the fall of Zeal, Lavos could take their magic away because they were not innates, they relied on the Mammon Machine for their powers.


I believe that's the commonly accepted IC reason for why he loses all his boss-like abilities. Lavos drains his power in the Ocean Palace disaster.

Quote
What I meant by the brain thing is that 3x the brain mass is a big number, considering that the Ioka's heads don't look to be half as small as the evolved people's heads.


I guess our brains just fit more snugly in our heads  :lol:

razor's edge

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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2005, 04:03:04 am »
Quote from: GreenGannon
Quote from: razor's edge
And what do you mean by Magus having his magic drained by Lavos? Magus was an innate--Lavos couldn't take Magus's magic away because Lavos wasn't the source (not directly at least). With the Enlightened Ones who survived the fall of Zeal, Lavos could take their magic away because they were not innates, they relied on the Mammon Machine for their powers.


I believe that's the commonly accepted IC reason for why he loses all his boss-like abilities. Lavos drains his power in the Ocean Palace disaster.

Ah, ok. I didn't know if that was what you were talking about.

Quote from: GreenGannon
Quote from: razor's edge
What I meant by the brain thing is that 3x the brain mass is a big number, considering that the Ioka's heads don't look to be half as small as the evolved people's heads.


I guess our brains just fit more snugly in our heads  :lol:


Quite, but whereas a human brain is around the size of a canteloupe, 3x smaller than that is a golf ball. I find it hard to believe that the prehistoric tribes were capable of intelligent thought, let alone speech, with a brain the same size as an ostrich's. (Although if that's the case, Spekkio was being nice when saying why he couldn't give Ayla magic. :lol: )

GreenGannon

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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2005, 04:32:43 am »
I myself did the calculations since my last post. It seems somewhat exaggerated. Perhaps it is. Perhaps the scientist was just trying to make it sound more interesting.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2005, 06:54:08 am »
Quote
In the eyes of the Dragons, we humans are the
foes... A brain that has developed abnormally to 3 times the original size in the span
of 3 million years
... We humans have evolved at an enormous rate because of our
contact with Lavos's flame...

Maybe the "original size" doesn't correspond to the humans from Ayla's era. Before touching the Frozen Flame, the human species did evolve naturally from real apes etc. Perhaps the face is actually referring to a less evolved kind of primate (Homininae or something), or the apes who first made contact with the Dreamstone and became conscious, I don't know.