Author Topic: Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis  (Read 913 times)

Zatopek

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« on: March 08, 2005, 02:46:43 pm »
Sorry if this has been answered a million times, but I think this is crucial to Chrono Cross' storyline.

Wouldn't the rise of Porre, Fall of Guardia, etc. cause a paradox for the existence of Chronopolis?  It appears from Trigger and Cross that Chronopolis comes from a future where Guardia does not fall and Porre is not a rival power.  But with Chronopolis being pulled back by the Time Crash, El Nido being formed, and Porre sailors finding El Nido and using its resources to become a power to rival Guardia, perhaps Chronopolis' future existence is jeopardized.  FATE seems to recognize this by keeping people from EL Nido from going to Zenan, but it doesn't stop people from Zenan going back and forth between Zenan and El Nido.

Chronopolis seems to ensure its own non-existence.  It is made in a future where Guardia wasn't crushed by Porre, but because of the Time Crash it inadvertantly causes Porre to rise to power with the discovery of El Nido and destroy Guardia, thus causing Chronopolis to never exist.  A Paradox of some sort I'm sure.

Can someone answer this, or am I way off base here?

Sentenal

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2005, 12:42:31 am »
well, Chronopolis doesnt exist in CT, as it exist in the saved future.

as for creating a paradox, i dont think time works quiet like that in the Chrono series.  For example, if time worked like that, then Chrono and co. would have never gone to the destroyed future, going instead to the saved one, and would therefore not get the incentive they needed to save the future, therefore creating a paradox.  it apparently do not work like that.  so paradoxes dont seem to be possible in the chrono series.

as for the rise of Porre, we dont know enough about why or how it rose.  regardless, the its irrelavant to the future anyway.  How could Porre winning a war over Guardia effect Chronopolis from being constructed?

ZeaLitY

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 01:58:57 am »
Well, Guardia could tentatively make a rebound long after 1005 A.D. It's unknown who actually creates Chronopolis, as it seems to just be some kind of central, all-encompassing government known as the Central Regime.

Zatopek

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2005, 12:40:52 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal

as for the rise of Porre, we dont know enough about why or how it rose.  regardless, the its irrelavant to the future anyway.  How could Porre winning a war over Guardia effect Chronopolis from being constructed?


It is very important to the construction of Chronopolis.  For instance, in the saved future isn't there a Truce Dome, Medina Dome, etc?  Let's say Guardia is still intact by then.  It's a world ruled by Guardia that constructs Chronopolis.  It's like me going back in time and killing Bill Gates; Microsoft's future existence would be in jeopardy.

Quote from: Sentenal
as for creating a paradox, i dont think time works quiet like that in the Chrono series.  For example, if time worked like that, then Chrono and co. would have never gone to the destroyed future, going instead to the saved one, and would therefore not get the incentive they needed to save the future, therefore creating a paradox.  it apparently do not work like that.  so paradoxes dont seem to be possible in the chrono series.


Then why are the Records of FATE installed if people living out there lives in any way they chose wouldn't pose problems to Chronopolis' existence?  I understand how Chrono Trigger escapes the Grandfather Paradox, but that doesn't negate the fact that FATE is very concerned about not affecting the mainland of Zenan.  Why is this unless it would jeopardize FATE's existence?
Also, isn't Chronopolis not really thrown back in the past; entering the Sea of Eden causes one to go 10,000 years in the future where Chronopolis is?  This was in one of the articles.  Thus modifying the past would endanger FATE and Chronopolis because this is different from the negated Grandfather Paradox.  Home World's Dead Sea is what happens when Chronopolis' existence is erased from history; wouldn't this also happen in Another World if the timeline is modified to the point that Chronopolis is never built?  I'm starting to ramble; someone please tell me if this makes sense.

ZeaLitY

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 02:34:19 pm »
Yes, it makes perfect sense. GrayLensman's Time Crash theory suggests that the Sea of Eden is simply a large piece of earth existing 10,000 years in the future. The only point I could correct with your description is just that the Home World Dead Sea results from a future that is destroyed (almost undoubtedly in 1999 A.D., years before 101020 A.D.); one in which Chronopolis isn't built would simply look like an empty sea.

Sentenal

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Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2005, 07:48:53 pm »
Quote from: Zatopek
Quote from: Sentenal

as for the rise of Porre, we dont know enough about why or how it rose.  regardless, the its irrelavant to the future anyway.  How could Porre winning a war over Guardia effect Chronopolis from being constructed?


It is very important to the construction of Chronopolis.  For instance, in the saved future isn't there a Truce Dome, Medina Dome, etc?  Let's say Guardia is still intact by then.  It's a world ruled by Guardia that constructs Chronopolis.  It's like me going back in time and killing Bill Gates; Microsoft's future existence would be in jeopardy.


Yes, there are those domes, but that still doesn't matter.  It's not like Porre completely wiped out the people of Guardia.  Porre won a war, took over as the dominating power, yet this was simply a government change.  It could have been Porre who built Chronopolis for all we know.

Quote from: Zatopek
Quote from: Sentenal
as for creating a paradox, i dont think time works quiet like that in the Chrono series.  For example, if time worked like that, then Chrono and co. would have never gone to the destroyed future, going instead to the saved one, and would therefore not get the incentive they needed to save the future, therefore creating a paradox.  it apparently do not work like that.  so paradoxes dont seem to be possible in the chrono series.


Then why are the Records of FATE installed if people living out there lives in any way they chose wouldn't pose problems to Chronopolis' existence?  I understand how Chrono Trigger escapes the Grandfather Paradox, but that doesn't negate the fact that FATE is very concerned about not affecting the mainland of Zenan.  Why is this unless it would jeopardize FATE's existence?


I think FATE just didn't want history to be more effected than it already was.  Maybe it feared that if the creation of El Nido interacted too much with the main land that the future would be doomed anew by something...

Quote from: Zatopek

Also, isn't Chronopolis not really thrown back in the past; entering the Sea of Eden causes one to go 10,000 years in the future where Chronopolis is?  This was in one of the articles.  Thus modifying the past would endanger FATE and Chronopolis because this is different from the negated Grandfather Paradox.  Home World's Dead Sea is what happens when Chronopolis' existence is erased from history; wouldn't this also happen in Another World if the timeline is modified to the point that Chronopolis is never built?  I'm starting to ramble; someone please tell me if this makes sense.


I never really though of it like that...  In that respect, it does seem like a paradox is possible.  Which article is that in?  Salt for the Dead Sea?  I need to go re-read it...(that article needs to be translated into english :))