Author Topic: Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&  (Read 6132 times)

Eriol

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2005, 05:01:30 pm »
Quote from: Mystik3eb
That's why I respect religions or parents who enforce 'morals', not because it's "God's will", but because it's smart.

More and more in today's societies, "traditional" values are being shown again and again to be the safest, and to produce the most stable households, with the best results for the children of such (success, crime rates, etc).  Perhaps God was right?  Who'da thunk it?

Quote from: Mystik3eb
Sure, alcohol or drugs may be the easy way out, but since when was the easy way out the best? It comes with too high a cost, I'm warning you.

That's actually an axiom you can take even if non-religious: if you're given an easy and a hard choice in a moral situation, the hard one is probably the right thing to do.  Heck, even Yoda said it.

Mystik3eb

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1022
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/dfscanl/index.html
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2005, 05:12:11 pm »
Quote from: Eriol
Quote from: Mystik3eb
That's why I respect religions or parents who enforce 'morals', not because it's "God's will", but because it's smart.

More and more in today's societies, "traditional" values are being shown again and again to be the safest, and to produce the most stable households, with the best results for the children of such (success, crime rates, etc).  Perhaps God was right?  Who'da thunk it?


It's true, it's true. And I'd agree that he is right...if he's really there.

Quote
Quote from: Mystik3eb
Sure, alcohol or drugs may be the easy way out, but since when was the easy way out the best? It comes with too high a cost, I'm warning you.

That's actually an axiom you can take even if non-religious: if you're given an easy and a hard choice in a moral situation, the hard one is probably the right thing to do.  Heck, even Yoda said it.


...well...yeah. I am non-religious =p. And in all seriousness, if Yoda said it...c'mon guys, why are we still arguing? :wink:

Quote from: Hadriel
"The point" of sex is defined by a culture. It is not merely a way to have babies; the main point of sex at the age most of us hover around is for fun. You're confusing the end with the means here. Just because I have a sword doesn't mean that all I use it for is killing people. I own it, and therefore I define its purpose. I will certainly use it to defend myself, but how often do I really have to do that? I haven't had to, so far. Most of the time, I use it to cut apart incredibly stubborn things, or when I can't find a screwdriver. Similarly, I am the sole possessor of my sexuality, and thus I define its purpose, which right now is to have fun. I don't intend to ever have children; they'd have the same kinds of struggles I with my Asperger's syndrome have had in growing up, and to subject another being to that would be one of the most immoral things that I personally am capable of. But I'm not going to deprive myself of emotional and physical fulfillment for that reason. That, and a kid would take away from my time to do what I want and to be with my wife. If that seems selfish, I've done my job.


That's...totally missing what Silvercry is saying. Again.

And since I love the quote feature oh so very much:

Quote from: Mystik3eb
Sex is for procreation. Our bodies work in a way where it feels good to do so. The pleasure is a result, not a purpose.


If even clearer explanation needs to be given, then here: the act of sex exists for the human race (and others) to procreate, that is it's purpose. However, humans don't always use Sex for it's purpose, because they like the feeling they get during intercourse, so they make the purpose of their Sex to simply give them pleasure, trying to ignore the original intent of Sex and being shocked and angry when Sexs' original purpose pulls through, despite their efforts to ignore it.

...does that make sense? I have a feeling I'm getting pretty repetitive, these days... :?

Hadriel

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1044
    • View Profile
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2005, 05:26:58 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Mystik3eb
Sure, alcohol or drugs may be the easy way out, but since when was the easy way out the best? It comes with too high a cost, I'm warning you.

Quote
That's actually an axiom you can take even if non-religious: if you're given an easy and a hard choice in a moral situation, the hard one is probably the right thing to do.  Heck, even Yoda said it.


...well...yeah. I am non-religious =p. And in all seriousness, if Yoda said it...c'mon guys, why are we still arguing? :wink:


Yoda isn't infallible.  In fact, the only reason he appears wise in The Empire Strikes Back is because he's had twenty years of solitude to reflect on all the shit he did wrong with the old Jedi Order, which was quite a lot.  If the prequel Jedi did not enjoy a virtual immunity to the laws of the Republic by virtue of what the ancient Jedi had done for the Republic, they would have been shut down almost instantly as a harmful influence on its members.  But because of their immense influence and power, they were given carte blanche to ruin lives and set back the progress of society.  Palpatine's philosophy is arguably more productive and certainly more efficient than the "righteous path" espoused by the Jedi.  There is NO REASON to take the harder path for the sake of some manufactured righteousness.  It goes against sentient nature, and anything that goes against sentient nature leads only to suffering.

Quote
Quote from: Hadriel
"The point" of sex is defined by a culture. It is not merely a way to have babies; the main point of sex at the age most of us hover around is for fun. You're confusing the end with the means here. Just because I have a sword doesn't mean that all I use it for is killing people. I own it, and therefore I define its purpose. I will certainly use it to defend myself, but how often do I really have to do that? I haven't had to, so far. Most of the time, I use it to cut apart incredibly stubborn things, or when I can't find a screwdriver. Similarly, I am the sole possessor of my sexuality, and thus I define its purpose, which rght now is to have fun. I don't intend to ever have children; they'd have the same kinds of struggles I with my Asperger's syndrome have had in growing up, and to subject another being to that would be one of the most immoral things that I personally am capable of. But I'm not going to deprive myself of emotional and physical fulfillment for that reason. That, and a kid would take away from my time to do what I want and to be with my wife. If that seems selfish, I've done my job.


That's...totally missing what Silvercry is saying. Again.

And since I love the quote feature oh so very much:

Quote from: Mystik3eb
Sex is for procreation. Our bodies work in a way where it feels good to do so. The pleasure is a result, not a purpose.


If even clearer explanation needs to be given, then here: the act of sex exists for the human race (and others) to procreate, that is it's purpose. However, humans don't always use Sex for it's purpose, because they like the feeling they get during intercourse, so they make the purpose of their Sex to simply give them pleasure, trying to ignore the original intent of Sex and being shocked and angry when Sexs' original purpose pulls through, despite their efforts to ignore it.

...does that make sense? I have a feeling I'm getting pretty repetitive, these days... :?


What it seems like he's saying is that sex for any purpose other than procreation is immoral.  This is a wholly wrong and indefensible position.

GrayLensman

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2005, 05:42:47 pm »
Quote from: Mystik3eb
If even clearer explanation needs to be given, then here: the act of sex exists for the human race (and others) to procreate, that is it's purpose.


Sex doesn't have any purpose.  It has functions: to procreate or for pleasure.

Burning Zeppelin

  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3137
    • View Profile
    • Delicate Cutters
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2005, 07:06:19 pm »
Lock the topic please. We already have an abortion thread.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5462
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2005, 01:35:07 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Lock the topic please. We already have an abortion thread.

I disagree. Yes, we have a dedicated abortion thread now, but there's a lot of interesting material in this topic, with room for further discussion in the future, and I don't want to see it locked. There's already too much topic locking going on here.

Burning Zeppelin

  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3137
    • View Profile
    • Delicate Cutters
Religious discussion split from "Why did Porre Invade?&
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2005, 03:53:21 am »
Most topic splits are due to me as you can see. That isnt relevant, but...so what interesting topic is there, O Master?