Author Topic: Did crono die when porre attacked  (Read 22175 times)

flea plus

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« on: December 16, 2003, 02:54:24 am »
I was wondering because on other websites i was on it said that he died when porre attacked in 1005. plus if he was alive i think that he would have stoped lynx from killing lucca.Inless I missed something in chrono  cross

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10592
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2003, 05:35:55 pm »
We believe not, considering that Lucca's drawings of Crono were done by children who lived after the attack.

flea plus

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2003, 09:26:11 pm »
Maybe Lucca was just telling the kids stories from her past, because I think that one of the pictures was of Frog/Glenn. Those pictures that were on the wall could have just been what they saw in Lucca’s pictures of the crew, because in Chrono Trigger’s PSX version it shows Crono looking at the photos and remembering old times. It could have been that kids have seen those pictures and made drawings of them out of respect for saving the world. I remember one other thing that kid said in Chrono Cross; she said that they were poor at Lucca’s orphanage. You would think that if Crono were alive that he would have given money to Lucca for the orphanage because he married Marle. One more thing; in the picture it was Glenn in a Frog body, not human.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10592
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2003, 11:22:32 pm »
Here's the archived discussion on this subject. Have any of you seen Frog among the pictures? I remember striving to find him, but failing.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
I wish to point out that if Lucca's burning is correctly dated at 1015 A.D., Crono may very well be alive. A child's drawing of him hangs in the back passage way. Considering the age of children, it couldn't have been done before the fall of Guardia.


Quote from: Ybrik Metaknight
Wow...good point. In fact, regardless of whether the date is correct, Crono would almost have to be alive. Consider the following: Kid, in 1020, is 16. She is able to talk to Serge coherently enough that she would have to be 6 or 7 at the youngest during the fire. Simple math dictates that the fire would have to have occured in or after 1010. The Fall of Guardia was in 1005.

Unless those were drawn in 1005, before the Fall of Guardia and Lucca simply left them up for memory, which is unlikely, given the fact that they did not appear to be framed or in any way protected from the elements, and even the inside of a house is not away from the elements enough to preserve something so unprotected for five years or longer. (Yay for runon sentences...as I write this I'm in the newsroom for TCU's newspaper...ironic...)

Also, since Robo and Ayla (and maybe Frog too? Can't quite remember) are depicted in the pictures as well, perhaps they continued to travel through time after the events of CT. Interesting how much a closer look at such a small detail can reveal...

I think that Guardia XXXIII might have still been king (unless, of course, he died because the Guardia line seems to have short life spans), and so Crono and Marle very well could have been spared. Indeed, they may not have even been in the area, or the era, at the time of the fall.

Of course, if they were in the castle, they most likely would have been executed, whether they were the rulers or not...see the Bolshevik Revolution (and the mystery of Anastasia) for a historical parallel.


Quote from: Oswego del Fuego
Regarding the drawings.... First, I assume they were by Kid, since Kid is the only child at the orphanage who is important to the story, and the entire orphanage sequence exists to shed light on her character. Second, despite their childish look, they are really quite accurate. This leads me to believe that Kid actually _met_ the heroes from CT, including Crono and Marle. Perhaps not all at once, but over time. Since this scene takes place _after_ the fall of Guardia in 1005 AD, I have to think that Crono and Marle survived the kingdom's "fall," and, therefore, might still be alive in the time of CC (in Another). As for Lucca, in my opinion it is pretty clear that she was killed by Lynx when the attempt to have her disable the Prometheus lock failed (probably because she refused to do it). Kid calls Lynx a murderer, Lynx makes a comment about Kid avenging Lucca, and he also tells Kid that he will "send her to Lucca." What more need be said? Oh, and about King Guardia. I think he was probably still reigning in 1005 AD. He seemed to still be in the prime of his life in 1000 AD (or so I thought), so I don't seem him croaking off in so short a time period. So, Marle is probably still Princess Nadia and Crono, upon his marriage to Marle, probably became Prince Crono or Lord Crono or something like that. Depending on the way their monarchy works, he may or may not become king; in many traditions, Nadia would become Queen, since she is the child of the King, but Crono, despite being her husband, would not become monarch himself. (This is assuming that Guardia's monarchical system even survives the disaster of 1005 AD.)

Crono and Marle: Well, we all know the two got married. But I doubt that in 5 years Crono would become King. I believe that he and Marle probably escaped the destruction and are laying low. And, if Lucca is still alive, they may have had a hand in that.

Besides, here's something else. Kid is 16... which means that Lucca had to have found her around 1003 or 1004. And in Lucca's letter to Kid, she states this:

Quote:
P.S. Cut out the tomboy act! Believe me! You'll become a beautiful young lady one day, or my name isn't "Lucca the Great!"


So for Kid to develop a Tomboy act, I'm assuming she may have been between 5-7 years old... probably around the time Lucca got kidnapped (did they give you a date of the year she was kidnapped? I don't remember). Which means Lucca probably wrote the letter around 1009-1010 or something like that. Roughly 5 years after the fall of Guardia. In the letter, she speaks of her 'friends.'

Quote:
That is why I worry that someone might seek revenge on us for what we did. I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time, just like we did, and try and kill or capture my friends and me.


She speaks of her friends in the plural and present tense, as if they're still alive and kickin'. I'm assuming she is talking about both Crono and Marle (and perhaps Magus, if he's hangin' around 1000 AD).

flea plus

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2003, 12:32:43 am »
thanks for the archived discussion it cleared up the timeline.As for the picture of frog it was in the hallway that leades to the kiction but is blocked by the fire use the ice gun on it.It is hard to tell if it is frog or not but it look like him.I tryed to press x on it but nothing comes up.It looks like frog but i could be wrong.As for crono going in hading I dont think he would do that.If he would die once to save his friends I dont think that anything scarys him.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10592
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2003, 12:41:12 am »
No problem. Welcome to the Compendium, flea plus.

Of course, some of this is still open; on Opassa Beach the ghost of Lucca clearly states that Crono, Marle, and herself are dead in Home. The Chrono Cross, of course, rewrites history.

flea plus

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2003, 01:18:21 am »
I Dont know if you,know of a game called radical dreamers for the super nintendo?On gamefaqs massage board it said that magus was a guy named magil in it.It also said that magus is guile in chrono cross.Do you know if that is true?Also is radical dreamers connected to chrono cross or trigger?I know iam asking a lot of question but the story is hard to understand.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10592
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2003, 05:01:46 pm »
Radical Dreamers is like a seprate dimension from Trigger and Cross; a few things are different, and yes, Magil is Magus. It was intended as a sequel to Chrono Trigger; a full review can be found in the review section.

Contrary to popular wishes, Guile is not Magus in Chrono Cross. This was explicitly denied by Masato Kato, the writer of the Chrono series.

Chrono'99

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3605
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2003, 06:33:32 am »
/!\ SPOILER /!\







In Radical Dreamers, Crono is dead, but we don't know how and why.
Kid wants to find the Frozen Flame because Lucca wanted to put it on a "childhood friend"'s tomb...
mmh I don't know how did Lucca knew about the Flame existence, but I think she wanted to use it to ressurect (once again) Crono.

Fxeni

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
    • http://www.freewebs.com/fxeni/
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2003, 03:18:30 am »
I'm just proposing an idea here, but i think that Crono and Marle lived. Why? Well, when the ending rolls around, and crono is congratulated by several people in the line of the leaders of Guardia, Doan was there. Since this takes place AFTER the defeat of Lavos, wouldn't that mean that someone in the line of the Guardia royal family would have lived, so that Doan could have existed? Since there is not particular mention of Marle having any siblings, it would be left to her to continue the family line. Since Crono and Marle got married, according to the playstation version, isn't it possible that they would have lived through the fall of Guardia?

If there's any problems with this idea, go right ahead and tell me.

rotorkid

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2003, 03:20:02 pm »
That's an interesting post Fxeni, but there is one flaw: Chrono and Marle might have already had a kid before the fall of Guardia.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10592
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2003, 06:21:23 pm »
Well, I suppose the deadline for having a kid might be 1015 A.D., since that is the latest Lucca may write a letter to Kid talking of her 'friends' in the present tense.

Welcome to the Compendium, Fxeni! And good observation. It indeed stands reasonable that Doan would continue to exist, as Lucca had to extract him from the future after the defeat of Lavos; if the act of killing the parasite had affected this in any way, Doan wouldn't have existed in the future Lucca traveled to.

Fxeni

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
    • http://www.freewebs.com/fxeni/
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2003, 01:10:22 pm »
Hmm, excellent point, rotorkid. Well, I knew there was bound to be some flaw :lol:

YbrikMetaknight

  • Squaretable Knight (+400)
  • *
  • Posts: 462
  • I strike fast and disappear for years at a time.
    • View Profile
    • Chrono Compendium
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2003, 02:40:40 pm »
Quote from: rotorkid
That's an interesting post Fxeni, but there is one flaw: Chrono and Marle might have already had a kid before the fall of Guardia.


Ah, but surely if Crono and Marle were killed in the Fall of Guardia simply for being next in line for the throne, any children they had would have been killed too, for the same reason.

A thought, though...I wonder if Lucca saw that Guardia had fallen when she went to get Doan?  I mean, surely...

Daniel Krispin

  • Guest
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2003, 12:43:25 am »
Well, I think we can be sure, in light of a whole lot of other things, that CC is not always in accordance with itself in terms of temporal events and such. Also, as I have pointed out in regards to the Frozen Flame in another topic, it seems to, at times, contradict what is shown in CT, and one can only decide whether to trust the older or newer game as to the matter of the truth.
Now, I would like to believe that Crono lived. If nothing else, it would make for a nice cameo should Chrono Break come out. Upon reading these replies, I find myself at somewhat of a variance in regards to his living or dying, however. Both sides bring up valid points, and I am unsure which is the correct one, if there even is one truth in this matter.
It is true that should, at some point, Guardia fall to Porre, Lucca would see this in her summoning of Doan at the end of Chrono Trigger. But I am not entirely sure whether Doan's existance proves Guardia's. I cannot remember, but does it ever say that he is a descendant of Guardia? Though the land's name may remain, the people may long ago have been assimilated into Zenan's main culture, even as Brits don't exist in Britain anymore as they did 1500 years ago. As for the other hints towards Crono being alive...I should think that Lucca's referal to someone coming to kidnap her friends is a pretty strong indicator of life, unless 1)she, knowing of the intricacies of time is speaking in some strange extra temporal sense (unlikely), 2.) the letter was written at some earlier time, before the fall of Guardia, 3.) the designers put little thought into the tenses in which they wrote/translated. It is the third that really makes me wary of this theory. And now we come to Crono's death.
While Crono can certainly take care of himself well enough, we must note that Guardia did indeed fall. This means that, for better or worse, Crono failed as prince in some regards, and let his land be overrun. If he lived through this calamity, then he is without a doubt an outlaw and guerrilla warrior. No man can wage a fifteen year war without it becoming a hit and run type. But if we look at such a thing realistically, he would likely have died. First of all, unless he gained some wisdom since his younger years, he would stupidly stand by the castle until it fell. Secondly, even if he did survive there is a great chance that through some trap he was killed in the intervening years. Maybe not, he is a very lucky warrior, after all, but this is a very likely thing. It is simply theory and interpolation of events, however. What we do know is that the ghosts of Lucca/Marle/Crono profess themselves to be dead. The only event that changed between the end of CT and CC concerned El Nido, not Guardia, and so if they are dead in one dimension, they are certainly dead in the other. This seems near iron-clad, but for the fact that they are ghosts. They may not be speaking in the strictest sense that we know. They may simply be a shadow of what may have been, some other future of the three, that no longer exists; they never say that they are dead, merely that they no longer exist in this timeline.
All these are certainly speculations, and really don't resolve the issue, I know. I've just summarised several of the things that have been said and that are already known. My own theory, stepping back and trying to take the view of the designers and what the intent was, is this: they are dead. It makes sense from the designer view; make a game in which the old heroes are all dead and gone, and leave the heroics for the new generation. The old wizard who helped the last company now joins the new; he and his sister are the connecting pieces between the two tales (not in the final game, surely, but I have heard that Guile being Magus was at some point intended). The torch has been passed on, in a sense. Though the letter seems somewhat ambiguous, a lot of writing can seem so if carefully scrutinized. I wager it was simply meant to be a letter from beyond the grave, a last call from the old group to the new, reminding Kid of her task and, in the earliest drafts, revealing the mysterious magician to be their old nemisis turned ally Janus, who is named for the Roman God of Beginnings and Endings. I think that the intent in this letter was no more than this, and was not meant in any way to suggest the the three live any more. Likewise, though the ghost's words can be taken somewhat ambiguously, I don't think that ambiguity was the intent when their speeches were written. If the writers never had any intent to bring back the three, then to kill them off distantly makes sense: it's the old shock value/ nostalgic sadness trick to add emotion. They killed Lucca, why not Crono and Marle? This is my opinion on the matter, from the overall impression I am left with.
Now, all this isn't to say that SE, if they ever make a sequel, will not find some way to ressurrect Crono. Many loopholes exist, to be certain. Or they could just go fully against what was said in CC, as CC at times contradicts CT, and pull them back out of the blue; their deaths were not put into the forefront anyway, and would not constitute a major breach of continuity.
Hmmm...I wonder if anyone will reply to this. The last few lengthy posts I have made seem to have been greeted with utter silence. Is it just an illusion, or is my posting a harbinger of the death of a thread?