Author Topic: Did crono die when porre attacked  (Read 32221 times)

SilentMartyr

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2005, 04:40:01 pm »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
I have 2 theories as to why Crono wouldn't be able to defend Gaurdia:
1) Assuming that Porre did get elements, and elements were technically from the planet while magic, the source of most of Crono's power, indirectly came from Lavos, couldn't the elements neutralize Crono's overhwelming power?


No, that wouldn't make any sense. How I see it is the elements are a lesser form of the magical abilities Crono realized. Think about it, these elements did not exist until after the events of Trigger. It's not like they were around forever, they are only found in El Nido. Also, magic doesn't have weakness to each other. If Lucca was struck by Ice 2 and Fire 2 she would receive near the same amount of damage (assuming she isn't wearing armor that has no reversable magic effects). But elemental damage depends on the innate ability of the victim.

In Zeal a woman in Kajar says that the groups magical abilities were primitive in comparison. Remember that magic does not only aid in fighting. Magus can fly, summon Lavos, and change peoples DNA structures. Elements can only be used in fighting situations.

Sentenal

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2005, 06:18:53 pm »
Daniel Krispin=Guardian of ages?  Just curious.

After Crono and Marle's marriage, we don't know that Crono stayed in Guardia.  We know that Marle didnt care for formalities like that, and Crono is a small-town youth.  I think its possible that they didnt stay at the castle, and even possible that they just tryed to live a quiet life away from politics and war.  Maybe the war just passed over their heads.

And we don't know that Porre would have executed the Guardia Royal Family after the war.  Unless you want to say that the Bolsheviks and Porre are alike in all aspects.

We do know that there was at least one, very bloody incident in this war, and that was done by the person who stole the Masamune.  The cutscene shows a town in flames, dead villagers on the ground, and a bloody Masamune.

Eggith Cyrene

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2005, 12:33:22 am »
Assuming they were living in some remote area Wouldent it still make sense for BOTH of them to rise and defend thier kingdom? Even if they cared naught for politics they most certainly would rise and defend the weak and powerless. Also if the castle was overun (as it most certainly was) and King Guardia XXXIII being in danger of being killed (as he most likly was) both of them would want to protect thier father.


We know some poor soul Wielded the masamune in battle and was slain and the blade taken.

And what about the PSX ending with the two shadows going at it in a duel and the one shadow hwo looks remarkably like Crono being slain. (which if true goes against what D krispin's statement about how he was overwhelmed)

Daniel Krispin

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2005, 01:24:03 am »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
And what about the PSX ending with the two shadows going at it in a duel and the one shadow hwo looks remarkably like Crono being slain. (which if true goes against what D krispin's statement about how he was overwhelmed)

Not neccessarially. It may have come to such form of single mortal combat in the end, but it was likely a hard battle long before - evident from the fires burning all about. If that was the case, he was likely weary of battle, and thus was overcome by a lesser foe.

However, in my opinion, I do not think it was Crono who wielded it. The Rainbow was his sword, and he would be loath to be parted from it, even for so mighty a blade as the Masamune. I tend to think it was rather some person from Guardia, driven by overmastering and zealous fire in the defence of his country that darkened and allowed his wrath to overcome him. In that case, the massacre of the people was not done by the wielder of the Masamune, but was done by the enemy of such a person, and served as the factory that led to the evil taint.

Oh, and just so everyone knows, yes, I am indeed Guardian of Ages. I wager there are no others hereabouts who would use the word 'wont' in a sentance, after all. I just figured it was time to cease using such a childish name, and now wish to rather use my real name.

Eggith Cyrene

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2005, 01:15:07 pm »
Well Crono Used Katana's anyway. He wouldent use another weapon type like the Masamune.

Sentenal

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2005, 02:38:58 pm »
We don't even know if the guy who got killed was using the Masamune.  I always took that guy to be a guard of some sort.

Daniel Krispin

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2005, 03:17:36 pm »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
Well Crono Used Katana's anyway. He wouldent use another weapon type like the Masamune.


Not neccessarially, however. While the eastern sword-styles put much emphasis on long years of training - connected with philosophy and the like regarding it - in swordsmanship, I do not think the western traditions were so detailed. I am certain they had sword forms, after a fashion, and sword masters and all, but even the knights were not sword-fighters: they rode at the enemy with lances. What I mean to say is that if Crono had been trained, or perhaps simply learned through practice in battle (which I think is likely the case), to use a katana of an eastern style, the using of a western form sword would not pose a great difficulty. The swords are no heavier, and at least appear to be balanced more toward the hilt than the katanas are. For all accounts, I don't think Crono would have much difficulty using, say, a falchion, which is sharpened on one end. And a great sword such as the Masamune is, double-edged and two-handed, wouldn't be a great leap. It would probably be like a musician going from playing lead guitar to playing base. The instrument is a little different, but if one knows the musical theory by feeling, and has learned the patience and form that goes along with one, the other is not so difficult a stretch. However, the simple fact of the matter is that the Masamune would be hard for ANYONE to use rightly, even in a more western style. It's a horseman's sword, not an infantry sword, after all.

But anyway, western swords aren't that hard to use basically, and anything less than a two-handed greatsword (as the Masamune), are very light. Look at the Vikings, for example: they didn't really have any sort of sword-training, I wager. They just did whatever worked, and if you lived through the battle and were courageous, you got better. And they were fearsome warriors. And if ends came to it, I think Crono could use the Masamune in an eastern style if he wanted to. Look at the way Aragorn holds Narsil at the assault in the Hornburg in the Two Towers (just when he and his host of elves charge the advancing Uruk-Hai) - he holds his sword of and forward. I may be wrong, but that doesn't look like a western style to me. That looks more like the way that Crono holds his sword. And Narsil is a true greatsword of the western traditions.

Eggith Cyrene

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2005, 05:57:01 pm »
Well Yeah I dont think Crono would have trouble using it. That dosent mean he was the one who wielded it.


As for the masamune I wonder What happened to it after Glenn's Lifetime. Im sure glenn was the keeper of the sword untill his death but what do you suppose happened it it after wards? Did He give it to guardia to hold as a national treasure? (you could argue that he didnt because it wasent in the treasure room in 1000AD  and you could argue that he may have and it just wasent shown/or more likely its an alternate timeline)Did Frog HAve it enshined somehwere else? Or did glenn pass it down to his children and so on down the line?

We assume that in the brief ending that it was one of the forces of guardia that wielded it agaisnt porre;and that porranian took it. and thus it turns to evil because the holder has a evil heart.  

Any alternate therioes on this?

Daniel Krispin

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2005, 06:26:57 pm »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
We assume that in the brief ending that it was one of the forces of guardia that wielded it agaisnt porre;and that porranian took it. and thus it turns to evil because the holder has a evil heart.  

Any alternate therioes on this?


I must take issue with this, unfortunately, though it is more a matter of specifics than anything else. The person holding the sword may not have had an evil heart, and may not have been an evil person at all (evil in the human sense - as I see it, all people are inherently evil as it is, thus no good people exist... but that is beside the point and irrelivant here.) You see, Masa and Mune themselves profess that it is not who wields the sword, but what they do with it. Thus a person who is by nature good, who even fights for good and thinks they are perhaps avenging or zealously defending Guardia, could have darkened the blade, simply by ruthlessly slaughtering those he saw as evil and as his enemies. The bearer of that holy sword must be very careful, then, in some ways like the Jedi in Star Wars must be. Whoever wields the sword affects it with his actions. Thus, even if he acts with good intentions, if what he does is evil, the sword is darkened. As we have seen by the example of Radius, this can in turn affect the wielder to further deeds, these being purposefully evil, further darkening the sword. A downward spiral that, in some respect, is similar to the spiraling path down the dark side. Thus, using the twin's own words, one may assume that whoever wielded it was not by nature evil, so needn't have been Magus or Lynx or whoever else has been speculated by nature of their dark natures. It may simply have been the knight champion of Guardia, such as Cyrus was on a time.

But as for who carried it in that last battle... personally, I have neither clue nor theory. Most time I see things one way, but know well enough what the likely intent was by those who made the game. It is not so plain here, however. It may perchance have been that hero Crono, but may just as well have been some other warrior of the land. And whose hands did it fall into? Some have said Lynx, others Magus. But it may just as well have been some other soldier and, perhaps, that soldier was not evil at the beginning. Rather, once dark, the sword acted akin to the One Ring of legend, possessing its owner to work its dark and murderous will, and passing from master to master in this fashion. It certainly fits with its hold upon the mind and spirit of Dario, does it not? And see, then: it may have been any of Porre that could have done this, even a common warrior carrying the sword abroad as war-spoil, like Isildur taking the ring for his own as wergild. That is what I think of official accounts. And for once, I have no personal theory on the matter either, and never speak of one in my writing: I step about the issue, and when Schala asks Crono of the matter, he says that he knows nothing of it, having left it behind in the ruin. Thus, my opinion on the matter is undecided.

Sentenal

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2005, 06:38:10 pm »
Changes in time dont happen until they are actually changed.  Frog would not had given up his sword, for rest, storage, etc, until after CT.  Therefore, we would not have a Masamune in the treasure room until after CT.

And I dont presume Guardia used it against Porre.  I think it was sleeping away in the Royal Treasure Chamber.  Remmber, Masa and Mune (while awake, at least) test those who would use it, in some form or another.  Other than Crono, Lucca, and Marle, I dont think there would have been anyone in Guardia able to pass their test.  I do think that what we saw was our mystery attacker, killing a guard, heading for the treasure chamber.

And I disagree that a Guardian Knight using it would make the sword evil, or anything like that.  Killing an enemy in combat is not evil.  Frog slaughtered many Mystics with the sword when they assaulted Magus' castle.  I think the Sword was turned evil (and Masa and Mune knocked out) by the bloodbath that our attacker did following stealing it.  The last scene in that ending shows a burning village, slain villagers covering the ground, and a bloody Masamune.  I think that this is what caused it to go evil.

Sentenal

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2005, 06:54:36 pm »
Upon watching the video again, after the defended is slain, the attacker turns around and walks off.  I think this would mean that the defender was not whielding the Masamune, as the attacker didnt stop to collect it from his corpes.

SilentMartyr

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2005, 01:54:24 pm »
I really doubt that any characters in CT were responsible for the swords corruption. I would assume that after Frog dies the sword would have been laid in front of his gravestone, it seems to be a recurring trend throughout Cross. So wherever Frog was buried would have been the locale of the legnedary sword. And I bet that after Frog died Masa and Mune went to rest assuming no one else would need the swords powers, considering its main purpose was fulfilled (destroying Lavos). And then whoever ganked the sword corrupted it because they were not worthy of carrying it, worthyness intwined with the reasoning behind them needing the sword not just who they are.

Sentenal

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2005, 04:29:57 pm »
Well, the reason I think the sword was corrupted when the stealer used to to kill alot of innocents in Guardia is because of how it looks.  The sword still looked like a Broad Sword in that video.  The sword only started looking like an Evil Red Tree Branch afterwards.

Zaperking

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2005, 08:46:45 pm »
Hey, Id it possible that the MasaMune is like a resemblence to the 'Excalibur'? Well here is my theory.

Before Frog's death in his time, he made a squire or someone who listened to him to return the sword to the dendario (sp?) mountains. But because Masa and Mune were already in the sword, no one was there to protect the sword for the years to come. Mystics could have passed the mountains, they hate energy building up around the mountain, the MasaMune absorbing it like it did to the Mammon Machine etc.

Then finally someone prior or during 1005AD gets it and uses it to lead an assult on Guardia.
All we have to go is find a type of person who would do something like that. I pick Crono's Cat. It would have been peeved if it had to travel through time XD

SilentMartyr

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Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2005, 08:56:49 pm »
Why couldn't her return the sword himself if he were still alive?