Author Topic: The Flat Earth Society  (Read 1780 times)

Mystik3eb

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The Flat Earth Society
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2005, 02:20:03 am »
...*cough*...anyway, I must say I was laughing my ass off reading that Flat-Earth stuff. That's gotta be some of the funniest shit I've ever read. I'd love to see those guys explain why someone who flies in one direction without turning off course in the tiniest will end up right where they started.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2005, 04:51:00 am »
Quote from: Exodus
Bah, indeed I have worded it poorly.

I should have mentioned that it is a theory because it doesn't have that "ultimate truth" to make it a fact.

That's a tired defense used by the superstitious, predicated upon the logical fallacy that, because a thing is not proven absolutely, it is therefore not proven, and thus incorrect. It really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand or the veracity of the subject matter under contention. Daniel Krispin was fond of the same error in reasoning.

Leebot makes an exceedingly valid point.

Burning Zeppelin

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The Flat Earth Society
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2005, 07:12:47 am »
Quote from: Mystik3eb
...*cough*...anyway, I must say I was laughing my ass off reading that Flat-Earth stuff. That's gotta be some of the funniest shit I've ever read. I'd love to see those guys explain why someone who flies in one direction without turning off course in the tiniest will end up right where they started.

Probably some mystic force that makes you go to the opposite edge of the Earth =P

So what Exodus is trying to say is that because it is not full proven, then we shouldn't believe it? Interesting
Quoth dictionary.com for theory:
Quote
  1.  A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
   2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
   3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
   4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
   5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
   6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Number 6 says that it can be based on limited information or knowledge.
Conjecture:
Quote
  1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
   2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: The commentators made various conjectures about the outcome of the next election.

Mystik3eb

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The Flat Earth Society
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2005, 04:20:57 pm »
Quote from: Exodus
Quote from: Lord J esq

1. Can an idea be dangerous even if its creator renounces it? (I have argued that yes, it can.)


1. No.


I dunno man...just because someone came up with an idea and dropped it doesn't mean others won't take it far more seriously and do alot of things with it. Now really it's rather sad that these people still actually believe something that the creator said outright was complete bullshit from the start, but for cases where the creator of the idea simply doesn't find it believable, while there may not be anything to completely discredit it, therefore giving its believers something to really build on...that's not totally illogical.

Hell, look at this whole compendium. Kato may say "you guys have no idea how many plot holes I found with this. I gave up trying to think of the answers forever ago, they just don't exist." Will that change how fervent most of us are in finding all the deep details, meanings, connections and answers that possibly wouldn't exist then?

Not saying that that's the case...I personally believe that, though there are several points we're being far too nit-picky about that I'm sure he's never considered, he's got FAR more stuff that we haven't even begun to imagine waiting up his sleeve. He is a genius, after all.

But anyway, that's my stand.

Exodus

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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2005, 04:29:35 pm »
Uh? The Compendium takes FACTS and attempts to mold a simple truth out of said facts. If something doesn't have an answer, we generally move on due to lack of evidence.

Therefore, stating that an idea could be dangerous is inconclusive in itself. It has the potential to be a danger, and it has the potential to simply be ignored.

I suppose I could change my written stance on this. No problems doing so.

Mystik3eb

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The Flat Earth Society
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2005, 05:41:48 pm »
Quote from: Exodus
It has the potential to be a danger, and it has the potential to simply be ignored.


There we go, I we've got the idea. And yes you're right, my example wasn't great. But that subject has been on my mind all throughout reading everything on this site.

Exodus

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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 03:12:44 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Quote from: Mystik3eb
...*cough*...anyway, I must say I was laughing my ass off reading that Flat-Earth stuff. That's gotta be some of the funniest shit I've ever read. I'd love to see those guys explain why someone who flies in one direction without turning off course in the tiniest will end up right where they started.

Probably some mystic force that makes you go to the opposite edge of the Earth =P

So what Exodus is trying to say is that because it is not full proven, then we shouldn't believe it? Interesting
Quoth dictionary.com for theory:
Quote
  1.  A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
   2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
   3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
   4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
   5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
   6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Number 6 says that it can be based on limited information or knowledge.
Conjecture:
Quote
  1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
   2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: The commentators made various conjectures about the outcome of the next election.


And yet... I'm still correct. D= Amazing, no? They may be considered as facts, but they are not proven as such.

Luminaire85

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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2005, 06:21:37 pm »
Ironically, the best definition for a scientific theory that I have come across recently is found in the Wikipedia entry on "Intelligent Design":

Quote
For a theory to qualify as scientific it must be:

        * Consistent (internally and externally)
        * Parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations, see Occam's Razor)
        * Useful (describes and explains observed phenomena)
        * Empirically testable & falsifiable (see Falsifiability)
        * Based upon controlled, repeated experiments
        * Correctable & dynamic (changes are made as new data is discovered)
        * Progressive (achieves all that previous theories have and more)
        * Tentative (admits that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)

Therefore Exodus is indeed correct in saying that theories are not absolute truth. However, as Leebot said:

Quote from: Leebot
Generally speaking, a Theory has a great deal of evidence supporting it, and very little--usually none--disproving it.

In the realm of science a theory is quickly modified or discarded when contrary evidence is discovered. Therefore, I would argue that a scientific theory is as true as it can be given the information we currently know.

There are some people who have not seen, choose to ignore, or explain differently the empirical evidence that leads to the proposition that, for example, the earth is round, or that evolution occurs by natural selection. Sprinkle in a few appropriate assumptions and a little bias and you have the Flat Earth Society, the Intelligent Design movement, etc.

Exodus

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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2005, 07:39:38 pm »
That was all I was arguing. Everything else, go for it.