Magic and Characters in CT

[GrayLensman]

Unfortunately I specified the color, but not what internally would make that color. Since things have innate elemental properties (I use the Bolt Sword that is found in the Future as an example. It is found in the sewers between the main area and Death Mountain. Now question, if they are unable to extract elemental properties, how do you explain that?) Then whenever something is composed of multiple elemental attributes then it might as well take on the aspects of those elemental attributes. Now in the game, it is said Robo cannot use magic, but I beg to differ that he has no innate element. Spekkio says he has no soul, but not that he has no innate. In the game menu, it states that Robo is Shadow. The sum of the parts in this case does create the man. Now what could those parts be?

Since elemental innates are tied in with specific physical forms, (White=Lightning, Blue=Water, etc.) White could be the electrical energy that flows through his system, blue could be the coolant system, fire could be the physical components that make him. THAT part is theoretical (and mostly BS), but just because we do not have a physical diagram of how Robo is made does not mean we cannot deduce based on what we see.

I think there is some confusion over terminology.  Most people use "innate element" to indicate a magic user's elemental proficiency.  That's what I mean by Robo not being able to use magic and thus have no innate element.  In Chrono Cross, everything has an innate Color, even machines, which describes their elemental characteristics.  If you wish, you may argue that Robo's innate color is Black, but there has been a lot of argument over how CC Colors relate to CT elements.

Bolt Sword:  this weapon does not cause any Lightning elemental effects.  How is it a mechanism operating on elemental principles?

SPEKKIO: That's the biggest toy I've ever seen...  Hey, you're not alive, are you?! You've got great strength, however, since I can't measure your inner character, I can't give any magic to you. But your laser weapons will suffice. They can inflict "Shadow" type damage.

Why Spekkio cannot measure Robo's inner character is unknown, but we do know that Robo cannot use magic, only produce elemental effects with his systems.  Does this mean that Robo has elemental characteristics, or that his internal systems manipulate the elements directly?  Or, more simply, can elemental effects only be generated by manipulating the elements?  This is the reason that your idea of character analysis is so valuable.  By determining the effects of every tech or ability in the games, and how they are generated, we can gain an insight on these matters.

I'm a bit confused by your "color wheel".  Are you describing CC Colors or CT elements?  If you are trying to integrate the two, there are some issues.  It seems that your interpretation of the elemental system differs from the generally accepted theory.  By no means am I suggesting that you cannot form your own conclusions, but they should be internally consistent and should not contradict the games.

SPEKKIO: Not just magic, but EVERYTHING is based on the balance of these 4 powers.

Matter and energy is made up of a combination of all four elements.  Pure elemental energy should not be evolved in normal physical processes.  Everyday phenomenon take on elemental characteristics, but are not elemental in composition.  Nothing should be made of Fire, or a combination of just two or three elements.  The Fire element is a force of nature, not some physical entity.  Robo's systems could operate on elemental principles just as an atomic bomb harnesses nuclear energy, or Robo could simply generate heat with his lasers, which take on the characteristics of the Fire element.

[ZeaLitY]

I think the Luminaire tech description that appears when the tech is highlighted is the only mention.

[Empiric]

Alright, anyways, to stay away from a hissy fit, lets move on.  Time to look at Double Techs!  Whenever I mention specific single techs in the entry, those are the techs required to create the double tech (And therefor must be part of the tech creation).
 
  Chrono+Marle
                     
Aura Whirl:  Marle focuses her aura ability on Chrono while he performs his cyclone ability.  However, instead of healing Chrono, the aura ability generates a field of healing energy that heals all allied units.

Ice Sword:  Marle reduces the temperature of Chrono's Sword during his Spincut attack, dealing Water damage to the enemies.

Ice Sword 2:  Marle focuses her magic into Chrono's sword as he goes into his Confusion attack, causing him to deal heavy water damage to enemies.

Chrono+Lucca

Fire Whirl:  Chrono goes into a Cyclone attack, during which Lucca uses her machines to lob some fire into the damage zone.  The Fire heats up Chrono's sword, causing it to deal fire damage.

Fire Sword:  Lucca increases the temperature of Chrono's Sword during his spincut attack, dealing fire damage to the enemies.

Fire Sword 2:  Lucca focuses her magic into Chrono's sword as he goes into his confusion attack, causing him to deal heavy fire damage to enemies.

Chrono+Robo

Rocket Roll:  Chrono jumps to Robo, who charges up Chrono's sword with Laser energy.  Chrono releases the Swords stored energy by using his Cyclone attack, creating a laser wave eminating from his position.

Max Cyclone:  Chrono jumps into action using his Spincut attack, however during the attack Robo catches him and uses momentum and his strength to create a high-damage spinning attack/

Super Volt:  Chrono and Robo combine energy, generating a high-intensity electric field that damages all enemies nearby.


Chrono+Frog

X-Strike:  Chrono and Frog deal vicious damage to an enemy as they double team with their swords.

Sword Stream:  Chrono jumps up for a spincut attack, however Frog traps him in a water bubble in midair.  Chrono reaches the pinnacle of the attack, and points his sword down, bursting the bubble and releasing a stream of water energy with his attack.  

Spire:  Frog Jump attacks an enemy, leaving his sword buried deep into the foes hide.  Chrono focuses his Lightning 2 ability on the sword, releasing a single bolt of energy to fry his foes.


Chrono+Ayla

Drill Kick:  Chrono begins a Cyclone attack, during which Ayla jumps on and rides Chrono/the Blade for momentum.  She jumps off and releases a rollo kick at an enhanced velocity.

Volt Bite:  Chrono Focuses his electrical energy on Ayla who seems to have the ability to ?harnass? the magic for a short amount of time, infusing her bites and kicks with electrical discharge.
OR
Chrono focuses his electrical energy on Ayla, and attacks her with a lightning bolt.  Ayla, being a strong cavewoman, survives the blast with only some burnt hair, but for a short while her body is infused with some static energy; not only that, but she goes into a cat-like rage.

Falcon Hit:   Ayla uses her Rock Throw ability to toss Chrono into a super-speed spincut, allowing him to deal extra damage to all enemies who happen to be in his horizontal way.

[Empiric]

Continuation:

Marle + Lucca

Antipod:  Marle and Lucca experiment with their magic, combining fire and water to see what happens.  To their surprise, they get Shadow magic!  But not in its most pure form.

Antipod 2:  Marle and Lucca add a little more power to their magical molotov, creating an even bigger Shadow attack.

Antipod 3:  Marle and Lucca go all out, shoving all their available magical power into the Antipod.  Needless to say, as the shadow magic is created, various monsters are obliterated.


Marle + Robo

Aura Beam:  Robo uses his cure beam to ?amplify? Marle's Aura ability ability.

Ice Tackle:  Robo charges up to ram an opponent while Marle cools his skin to the point of freezing, allowing Robo to deal Water/Ice damage on impact.

Cure Touch:  Robo and Marle combine their powers together to heal all allies on the battlefield.


*Note:  How do Marle and Robo's heal abilities combine?  I need to watch graphics closely, but I am unsure how a natural ability can combine with a technological skill unless applied seperately.  Once again, I may be wrong, but I need to check.


Marle + Frog

Ice Water:  Frog summons water while Marle chills it a little to deal lots of water damage to a foe.

Glacier:  Frog calls up water and Marle freezes an opponent in place to deal tremendous water damage to a foe.

Double Cure:  Marle and Frog combine their Cure 2 spells to fully restore all allies life on the battlefield.


Marle + Ayla

Twin Charm:  Marle provokes an opponent while charms them to steal something off the enemy.

Ice Toss:  Marle summons up a small ice chunk and Ayla uses her rock throw ability to chuck it about.  The Ice shatters, causing damage to all creatures in a small zone.

Cube Toss:  Marle summons up a great Ice Cube and Ayla uses her rock throw ability to chuck it about.  The cube shatters, causing damage to all creatures in a decent sized zone.

[ZeaLitY]

Delta Attack
Crono, Marle, Lucca
Crono, Marle, and Lucca both invoke the highest forms of their elemental power to produce a Shadow effect. (Lightning 2, Ice 2, Fire 2)

Arc Impulse
Crono, Marle, Frog
Marle empowers Crono's sword with ice as he hits an enemy; simultaneously Frog slashes for a sort of hybrid X strike. Water element.

Lifeline
Crono, Marle, Robo
It seems that Robo and Crono combine their own healing effects with the superior healing element of Marle's to create a vastly healthy Heaven/Lightning effect.

Final Kick
Crono, Marle, Ayla
Crono and Marle combine their elemental powers into a compressed orb
that intensifies the blows of Ayla's kick. Shadow element.

Delta Storm
Crono, Lucca, Frog
Crono, Luca, and Frog combine Lightning, Water, and Fire to produce an immensely powerful Shadow pyramid, similar in appearance to other high-level Shadow attacks -- Dark Matter, etc.

Fire Zone
Crono, Lucca, Robo
Robo spins Crono with sword outstretched while Lucca empowers it with
fire. Fire element.

GatlingKick
Crono, Lucca, Ayla
Crono and Lucca combine their elements to produce a sort of Shadow orb and rotating effect that allows Ayla a large number of kicks. Shadow element.

Triple Raid
Crono, Frog, Robo
Crono and Frog do an X-Strike while Robo does one of his physical tackles. Physical damage; no element.

3D Attack
Crono, Frog, Ayla

Crono and Frog undertake an X-Strike while Ayla finishes off the enemy with a kick. Physical damage; no element.

PoyozoDance
Marle, Lucca, Ayla
Marle, Lucca, and Ayla dance crazily to utterly confuse the enemy in a shower of colors. Lucca might be using Hypno Wave, while Marle employs Provoke; Ayla could use Charm or Tailspin to confuse the enemy. The result is chaos, which is of the Shadow element.

DarkEternal
Marle, Lucca, Magus
It seems that Marle and Lucca enhance Magus' Dark Bomb or Dark Matter by combining Water and Fire for a greater Shadow effect.

Grand Dream
Marle, Frog, Robo
I think...Robo is using Curebeam, Marle is using Ice 2, and Frog is using Frog Flare except with the New Masamune somehow. Physical damage, whatever is going on.

Omega Flare
Lucca, Robo, Magus
I surmise that Lucca is using Flare, Magus a dark spell of some sort, and Robo Laser Spin to produce an unbelievably powerful Shadow spell.

Spin Strike
Robo, Ayla, Frog
Ayla and Robo spin around an enemy while Frog descends from above. Physical damage.

[Empiric]

Continuation:

 Lucca + Robo

Fire Punch: Lucca uses her Fire Magical ability to heat up Robo's Outer shell, the heat is transferred to the enemy to add damage during Robo's Rocket Punch.

Fire Tackle: Lucca uses her Fire 2 Magical ability to heat up Robo's Outer shell, the heat is transferred to the enemy to add damage during the Robo Tackle attack.

Double Bomb: Lucca throws out one of her patented Mega Bombs, which Robo uses in his Area Bomb attack.

 Lucca + Frog

Red Pin: Lucca uses her Fire magic to heat up Frogs sword during his leap slash attack, causing flame damage to the target enemy.

Line Bomb: Lucca straps a bag of Mega Bombs onto Frog, afterwards he jumps into an extended Leap Slash, dropping Bombs on foes below him in a horizontal line.

Frog Flare: Lucca enfuses the area with intense heat magic, all of which is absorbed by a giant Frog as he is magically summoned by Frog.  The Frog takes in the heat energy, increasing the damage it deals to all foes.  

Afterwards, Frogs legs for everyone!

*Note: The Question as to what exactly is the summoned Frog still stands.


 Lucca + Ayla

*Note:  How exactly does Ayla stand being infused with magical energy?  First it is Chrono and the Volt Bite Tech, now Ayla absorbs fire energy that is normally capable of killing several enemies in one blow!  If she does so normally, she is one tough cavewoman!  And if she is capable of withstanding her allies magic, how come she doesn't fare so well against the enemies magical assaults?

Flame Kick: Lucca uses her Fire spell to summon fire into existance which Ayla either:
1.) Moves very quickly through with her Rollo Kick, causing the fire to incinerate the air, following her as the oxygen is displaced, stopping at the opponent.
Or:
2.) The magic is infused into Ayla's body, and is released at the moment of impact.

Fire Whirl:  Ayla goes into some crazy spinning moves, during which Lucca uses her Fire spell.  The Tail Spin displaces the air currently in place (She does not have the ability to generate air magically), and since Fire requires Oxygen (Fuel being the magic provided by Lucca), the Fire follows the air flow, creating a fiery whirlwind of doom.

Blaze Kick: Ayla uses the same principles used for Flame kick, instead using her much improved Triple Kick, and Lucca using a more powerful Fire spell.

[Empiric]

Continuation:

Frog + Robo

Blade Toss: Robo partakes in a game of *Toss The Toad, causing Frog to deal excess damage with his Slurb Cut attack.
*Yes I know, its a Frog.  Deal with it.

Bubble Snap: Frog envelops Robo in a magical bubble, lifting him off the ground to eventually float over the enemy.  Unfortunatly, a bubble is not meant to hold the weight of a Robot, and it eventually snaps.  Robo is unceremoniously dropped on top of the enemy, after which he bounces back up, his fall being cushioned by the unlucky monster.

Cure Wave: Robo ?enhances? Frogs Cure spell, healing the health of all allies to full.

Note:  Once again, how can technology and magic mix?  The nature of this ability can and should be explored.  Trying to figure out how Robo can amplify the healing magic of Frog and Marle could very well give insight as to how elements are made, and how they operate.


Frog + Ayla
Note:  The Dinner Plate combination.  Pardon me as I make fun of the tech abilities, but I find the combo to be fairly funny.

Slurp Kiss:  Ayla kisses the Frog, lifting the curse and showing him for what he truely is... a Frog.  However, in the moment of passion, Frog does not return the favor, and heals everyone with his Slurp kiss in order to get Ayla's taste out of his mouth.

Bubble Hit: Frog, in an act of self-defense against Ayla's passion, traps Ayla in a bubble.  As the bubble floats away, Ayla finally breaks it, using a Rollo Kick to smooth her landing on top of the enemies head.

Drop Kick:  The forces of nature combine in this truely divine physical assault.  Both go in from either side and let their opponent get a taste of foot; one green and one mean.


Comedic Note:  Someday I fully expect an ability in which you see the Giant Frog cross the screen, followed closely by a rampaging T-Rex hoping for dinner sized Frog's legs.

[Empiric]

Continuation:

Robo + Ayla

Boogie: Ayla teaches Robo how to 'Get Down' with himself, as he uses his lasers to provide fanfare and lighting effects for her confusing dance style.  Opponents stop in their tracks to watch as Ayla struts her stuff.

Spin Kick: Ayla gives her opponent a good kick, with her already amazing speed enhanced by Robo's gentle shove.

Beast Toss: Ayla and Robo continue Game Day as they toss their opponent around like a ball.  Oops!  They dropped him.  I guess that means we have to start over with another Rollo enemy.

Note: Robo's family used a different form of this skill in the Future, when trying to restore power at the machine factory.

[Empiric]

PoyozoDance
Marle, Lucca, Ayla
Marle, Lucca, and Ayla dance crazily to utterly confuse the enemy in a shower of colors. Lucca might be using Hypno Wave, while Marle employs Provoke; Ayla could use Charm or Tailspin to confuse the enemy. The result is chaos, which is of the Shadow element

The skill Ayla uses is Triple Kick.  Your guess is as good as mine.

[SilentMartyr]

A bump of this magnitude usually condones bannage, but this topic is too important to be so dormant. I really think explaining how all these techs happen will give better insight as to how the CT elements function in the rest of the world. If no one else is up for the challenge, I wouldn't mind compiling a master list of all the techs with agreeable explinations of how they work. If no one responds, I'll forget I even posted.

[GrayLensman]

This topic is a sticky so bumping it won't do anything.  However, if you are willing to work on this analysis, you have my encouragement.

There are no old topics.  Feel free to revive any discussion, even if it has been dormant for over a year.

[Leebot]

In fact, I'd say it's preferable to revive an old topic than to create a new one on the same topic. It saves people the trouble of reading both threads to hear all arguments.

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, agreed on both counts. There is never a dead topic in the Compendium, and neither will anything be deleted or 'pruned.' Part of the eternity of this; think of all that neat Gamefaqs discussion that has been totally lost, remade and then lost again because the board chews up its posts.

Anyway, yeah, check this thread to make sure you don't accidentally cover anything that's already been described, since I think those descriptions are finished and well-rounded. I keep forgetting we have to do this before the article can be released. Also, check the CT Script for a list of all the Monster Techs in the appendices; it might help with tracking those down.

Oh, and welcome to the Compendium. CTCronoboy posts in OCReMix often, and has hung around Claado's Symphonic thread.

[SilentMartyr]

Cool. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. Some of the other boards are all against old topics being rehashed.

At CTNP we have had this discussion going on fro a while now, the book wants to portray the image that everything can be explained besides saying Oooh Magic! So I have some ideas for some of the doubles that are kinda hard to explain.

Volt Bite: Instead of Ayla actually being physically struck by the lightning bolt there is a sort of electrical field that surrounds her body. Really close, like some sort of a shield, and when she attacks the enemy the energy is released upon it. This obviously takes extreme mental concentration form Crono, since he has to make sure Ayla isn't struck by the energy before she attacks.

Frog Squash/Dino Tail: Hrmm, this is a toughy. Both seem to have some ability to summon a creature. While Frog's is at least understandable, Ayla's maks no sense, Reptites were her enemy, not her ally. This is a little hard to justify, from the animation they both make a cry and then the being appears. The best logic I can come up with is that through thier abilties as fighters they gained the ability to control a sentient being to complete thier will, ala Final Fantasy. It's really crappy, but they aren;t giving us much to go one for these two.

Shock: I always saw this not as a madatory release of built up energy but a built in defense mechanism. Something designed to release a large amount of the energy used to power Robo onto other attacking things. It obviously cannot be used often, its MP costs implies that. It doesn't hinder Robo's ability to function, but it drains his energy much faster than normal operation. So much so that he would need to rest to be able to recharge the lost energy, if it is used often.

That's all for now, I don't remeber anything else that was posing any problems.

Thank you, I hope making this list will help you guys out.

Is there any program you would prefer it in (ie. word type program over spreadsheet type program)? If it makes it any easier I could do it in one or the other, but Ill default on using Microsoft Word.

[ZeaLitY]

Anything's fine, as long as it can translate to the forums.