Author Topic: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....  (Read 318 times)

Sheiken

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2020, 10:06:15 am »
While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.

We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline.  It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia.  Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen.  However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place.  Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died).  Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.

However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons.  One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly.  The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died.  The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala.  One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype.  Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?

That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 10:15:27 am by Sheiken »

Beach Bum

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2020, 07:03:32 pm »
Man, Chrono Cross hurts my head, but I definitely see the Fall of Guardia and the creation a 'resistance' against Dalton as a great potential for a game. There are drawings of Crono, Marle, Ayla,Robo and possibly even Frog and a Nu (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lucca%27s_house.html) in Lucca's house at the time it burns down in 1015 AD. Suggesting not only that Crono and Marle might be alive, but that Lucca has access to time travel in some form or another as well.

With this in mind, Crono and Marle could be leading a secret guardia resistance, or could have been thrown back in time and only recently reunited with Lucca. It's hard to say. They could be dead, but, I don't see why there would be drawings of them in 1015 AD, unless Lucca kept them up for years, and if they perished in 1005 AD, who drew them?

With Dalton's time traveling abilities and dimensional pockets, he definitely could be the main antagonist, or his shenanigans could lead to an even bigger and badder antagonist through mucking up time/dimensions. I could see Dalton playing with a fire he can't control, going back in time and royally messing things way up!

To be honest there was plenty of time for those drawings to be made. Remember Lucca found Kid at the end of Chrono Trigger (1000 AD), and started the orphanage not long after. I assume the other kids she found for her orphanage were not all babies, that would be odd. That means there was a span of give or take 5 years where Crono and Marle (and the others) could have visited the orphanage, interacted with the kids and the kids subsequently making drawings of them.

The only questionable thing there is, why did she leave them up for 10 years? Maybe it's because Crono and Marle passed away, as memorials? I know I'm reaching, but it's also odd that, if they were made recently, going by those drawings, Crono and Marle's appearance hasn't changed much in 10 years. Would they not be drawn as king and queen? The Frog drawing you mention is of his dead pose. Why would the kids draw that? The drawings are odd in general.

While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.

We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline.  It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia.  Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen.  However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place.  Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died).  Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.

However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons.  One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly.  The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died.  The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala.  One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype.  Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?

That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.

I don't know why, but for some reason I just don't like the idea of a Chrono game where Crono and Marle are fighting for their self interest. Crimson Echoes did the same thing. That was never what Trigger and Cross were about. I mean I get it, and it makes sense, but if the stakes in the new Chrono game are lower than everything in existence being at stake, it makes it underwhelming for me.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:08:01 pm by Beach Bum »

Sheiken

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2020, 07:18:47 pm »
Man, Chrono Cross hurts my head, but I definitely see the Fall of Guardia and the creation a 'resistance' against Dalton as a great potential for a game. There are drawings of Crono, Marle, Ayla,Robo and possibly even Frog and a Nu (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lucca%27s_house.html) in Lucca's house at the time it burns down in 1015 AD. Suggesting not only that Crono and Marle might be alive, but that Lucca has access to time travel in some form or another as well.

With this in mind, Crono and Marle could be leading a secret guardia resistance, or could have been thrown back in time and only recently reunited with Lucca. It's hard to say. They could be dead, but, I don't see why there would be drawings of them in 1015 AD, unless Lucca kept them up for years, and if they perished in 1005 AD, who drew them?

With Dalton's time traveling abilities and dimensional pockets, he definitely could be the main antagonist, or his shenanigans could lead to an even bigger and badder antagonist through mucking up time/dimensions. I could see Dalton playing with a fire he can't control, going back in time and royally messing things way up!

To be honest there was plenty of time for those drawings to be made. Remember Lucca found Kid at the end of Chrono Trigger (1000 AD), and started the orphanage not long after. I assume the other kids she found for her orphanage were not all babies, that would be odd. That means there was a span of give or take 5 years where Crono and Marle (and the others) could have visited the orphanage, interacted with the kids and the kids subsequently making drawings of them.

The only questionable thing there is, why did she leave them up for 10 years? Maybe it's because Crono and Marle passed away, as memorials? I know I'm reaching, but it's also odd that, if they were made recently, going by those drawings, Crono and Marle's appearance hasn't changed much in 10 years. Would they not be drawn as king and queen? The Frog drawing you mention is of his dead pose. Why would the kids draw that? The drawings are odd in general.

While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.

We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline.  It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia.  Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen.  However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place.  Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died).  Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.

However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons.  One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly.  The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died.  The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala.  One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype.  Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?

That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.

I don't know why, but for some reason I just don't like the idea of a Chrono game where Crono and Marle are fighting for their self interest. Crimson Echoes did the same thing. That was never what Trigger and Cross were about. I mean I get it, and it makes sense, but if the stakes in the new Chrono game are lower than everything in existence being at stake, it makes it underwhelming for me.

Kid is 16 in Chrono Cross, which means Lucca found Kid in 1004 AD at the earliest.  Kid would have been no older than one during the Fall of Guardia, which is why her being old enough to make those drawings is such a big indicator to Crono and Marle NOT dying during the invasion.

The Orphanage was most likely started right after the Fall of Guardia, as there would have been many war orphans after such an event and it would line up with being started soon after Kid was taken in.  Even if they were made by other kids in the Orphanage, it is likely Crono and Marle helped with the kids and the recovery effort.  With that in mind, drawing of them stating how "cool" Crono is makes sense and lines up perfectly.

Also, they would not be fighting for their own self interest.  They would be fighting for their fallen Kingdom and against a tyrant that is influencing a militarized Porre.  Everything about it is part of a noble cause, so I am not sure what you mean by "their own self interest".

And finally, Dalton is a fk up.  I could totally see him accidentally unleashing something of grand scale by accident, which would shift the focus of the plot.  Dalton is just the start.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:48:24 pm by Sheiken »

Beach Bum

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2020, 04:07:22 am »
Do we know that Kid specifically made any of those drawings tho? Because if we don't and it could have been just some random kids, it's impossible to put a timeframe on when they were made.

Sheiken

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2020, 09:49:45 am »
Do we know that Kid specifically made any of those drawings tho? Because if we don't and it could have been just some random kids, it's impossible to put a timeframe on when they were made.

But it is possible to put a timeframe on when the Orphanage was created.  Kid was found no earlier than 1004 AD as she was 16 in Cross (1020 AD).  Lucca formed the Orphanage after that, and the Fall of Guardia would have happened less than a year from when Lucca found Kid.  Therefore the Orphanage was likely formed for war orphans after the attack.  Given that Crono and Marle likely helped form the Orphanage, any of the other kids making the drawings still fits perfectly with them surviving.

There is also another piece of evidence.  Lucca refers to how something might come after her and her friends in her letter.  In the same letter, she talks about Kid's personality and mannerisms as if Kid was older, as she would not be able to determine how Kid's personality would be from Kid being a baby.  Since during the Fall of Guardia Kid was no older than one year old (possibly less than 1), and since she refers to Crono and Marle being alive in her letter (which was written years after the attack), it is a strong implication that Crono and Marle survived the attack.

There is just far more hard evidence suggesting that they survived than there is that might suggest they died.  In fact, most of what suggests they died was always just fan speculation from the start. The only thing that MIGHT suggest they are dead are the Kids on the beach.  But even then, the kids only appear in homeworld and might even be the "entity" refered to in Trigger simply choosing that form to speak to Serge and Kid at the end of Cross.  The kid resembling Lucca's one line to Kid about how she was happy she turned out however would not make sesne in this case though.  It is also possible that they are dead in Home World, but not in Another World (which was stated to be the timeline you played in CT) as there are NO implications that they died there.  No ghost children, and this was even the reality that Lucca left the aforementioned letter to Kid that suggests everyone was alive after the Fall of Guardia.  It seems Kato was unsure what to do about the original cast and left it up in the air, but all evidence points to them surviving the attack.

But there is one other things that points to possible plans for Crono.  The PSX release of Chrono Trigger had the Fall of Guardia scene, which was made AFTER Chrono Cross.  You see the shadow of two lone swordman fighting and one of them falls.  Naturally many ASSUMED it was Crono that died, but why wouldn't they just show that?  It was left a mystery for a potential reason.  At this time, Chrono Break was still being planned and had not been canned yet.  Something ambiguous like that could have very well been a set up to shock the world when it reveals that Crono was the one who WON that fight, or he was not even in the duel to begin with.  Unfortunately, this we will never know for sure.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 09:59:31 am by Sheiken »

Beach Bum

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2020, 04:08:16 pm »
You're right, Kid's age makes the timeline tight.

But Lucca's letter is weird. You make a good argument about placing it at a point in time where she would be able to determine Kid's character, thus after the Fall of Guardia. But then she also goes on to say something or someone might come after her or her friends because of what they did. As in something that could happen, not something that has already happened (the Fall of Guardia). If the Fall of Guardia had happened, and someone had tried to kill Crono and Marle, wouldn't that be very odd phrasing?

Anyway, if they survived, I'm really curious just what they're up to during Cross. I find it hard to believe Guardia was able to rebuild while Dalton is still in power. Yes, there is the General Kid ending. Yes, there is Norris' speech when he stares into the Frozen Flame. But how can that be when Dalton, the man who destroyed the kingdom in the first place, is literally sitting on his throne to the south?

Sheiken

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2020, 04:16:33 pm »
You're right, Kid's age makes the timeline tight.

But Lucca's letter is weird. You make a good argument about placing it at a point in time where she would be able to determine Kid's character, thus after the Fall of Guardia. But then she also goes on to say something or someone might come after her or her friends because of what they did. As in something that could happen, not something that has already happened (the Fall of Guardia). If the Fall of Guardia had happened, and someone had tried to kill Crono and Marle, wouldn't that be very odd phrasing?

Anyway, if they survived, I'm really curious just what they're up to during Cross. I find it hard to believe Guardia was able to rebuild while Dalton is still in power. Yes, there is the General Kid ending. Yes, there is Norris' speech when he stares into the Frozen Flame. But how can that be when Dalton, the man who destroyed the kingdom in the first place, is literally sitting on his throne to the south?

In reference to someone coming after her, I believe she might be refering to Lynx (or FATE since she did not know about Lynx yet).  FATE exists because of the future she helped create AND she knew about Balthasar and his plan.  Seeing how this is what Cross was based off of, I feel she was more referring to that more so than the Fall of Guardia.  I can also she why she would refer to Crono and Marle under this circumstance as well, because she had no clue if FATE would go through them to get to her or not.  As we know now that did not happen, but the possibility of them being pulled into it without knowledge of how FATE would go about getting to her is more than enough cause for concern.

As for how they are holding up, we do not know.  It could be that the powers that Norris is referring to is the resistance formed by Crono, Marle, and other leaders to oppose Porre.  This would actually give Porre motivation for finding the Frozen Flame to begin with as well because if they had truly won and took over the world, they would have no need for it.  But then, since the game would start with Crono and the resistance going against Dalton before the big twist to reveal something bigger, this hypothetical new game would be the game to answer those questions.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 04:21:47 pm by Sheiken »

Beach Bum

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2020, 04:53:48 pm »
To me, Lucca's letter sounded more like she didn't know who or what was coming, or if it was coming for just her or her and all of her friends. And Dalton being alive is also a result of their time traveling, as in the Lavos timeline he died at the bottom of the sea with the rest of Zeal. In my opinion the letter would make more sense if it added "in fact this very thing has already happened to my two best friends", but for some reason the details of Guardia's calamity are always intentionally left vague.

You could be right about a resistance.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 04:55:24 pm by Beach Bum »

Sheiken

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2020, 05:43:30 pm »
Dalton does indeed fit the bill for being a negative result of their time travel, no doubt.  The major thing going against it however is the timing of the attack.  The letter was clearly written after the Fall of Guardia when you look at Kid's age, so Lucca already knew about him.  As for FATE, that was something she would have known about through Balthasar, but has no idea what form or approach FATE would take if it came after them.  Since Dalton does not work due to the timing, FATE is the only other logical explanation I can think of.

I think it was left vague for a reason, just like the cutscene at the end of the PS1 release of trigger was left as two shadows with no confirmed identity.  I could see them having a big reveal at the start of the game (or halfway through if it had a different protagonist) that Crono and Marle are alive and in the resistance.  I firmly believe that at the time, they were at least CONSIDERING something like that for Chrono Break.  Unfortunately unless the project is somehow revived and led by Kato himself, we may never know for certain.

EgyLynx

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Re: Idea for a sequel and the fate of the main cast....
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 02:55:35 pm »
Cu
just like the cutscene at the end of the PS1 release of trigger was left as two shadows with no confirmed identity.   
Same at... Nds...