Author Topic: Re: The Dead Sea  (Read 3861 times)

AuraTwilight

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2005, 07:22:10 pm »
I always felt that they were from timelines where Crono and co. died when they were children, and the Dead Sea kinda pulled them into the Keystone world or something.

Sentenal

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2005, 07:43:16 pm »
Can't believe I ignored this post...

Okay, why Crono and Co. are able to save Another, but not Home.  In order to understand this, you must look how these events happen, in accordance to the Flow Principle.

Crono and Co. leave from 1000ad to 1999ad to fight Lavos.

Lavos is defeated.  Crono and co return.  We get a new, saved future.

Blah blah blah, Time Crash, El Nido, Serge is born.

Serge is killed.  But something happens.  (Oh, btw, Serge's death was by drowning).  Serge is saved from drowning, creating a dimensional split.  Now there are two futures, basically.

When Crono and co. emerge in 1999ad in this "new" timeline, they can only emerge in one of them, since time traveling doesn't make doubles.  And since Another is the real one, they can only appear in Another's future.

About the Ghosts:  If you assume them to be Crono and co, you assume Crono and co to be dead.  Other than Lucca, there is no evidence for this.  Plus, the ghost are much, much younger.  I highly doubt they are Crono and co.

Zaperking

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2005, 03:03:25 am »
The Lucca ghost is Lucca tho...

Anyway, I always thought that no matter what, the moment that Lavos is destroyed, he's gone. He's destroyed before 1000AD and after 12,000BC. Basically, when Crono and co go back (how did they anyway? Like what happened after Lavos exploded or whatever), Lavos has been destroyed. And from 1000AD till 1010 and forward in the future, there is no Lavos present. The Dimensional Split occurs in 1010. It shouldn't matter. Because in the new future, NO ONE EVEN KNOWS ABOUT LAVOS BECAUSE HE NEVER EXISTED! Even in 1999AD, he doesn't even exist anymore. It's as if when Crono and co go back to 1000AD, there's a re-written history up to 1999AD where Lavos isn't even alive. This is why Chronopolis has no info on Lavos, or Crono and co.

Especially since Chronopolis did exist in Home World, till a possibility occured that Serge controlled the destiny of the future. That is when the Dead Sea came in. Personally, I think that everyone in Chronopolis in home world were sent to Another and merged.

V_Translanka

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2005, 11:44:48 am »
There would still be information to be had about Lavos' landing and it's manipulation of all life...

SilentMartyr

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2005, 02:20:17 pm »
Umm, Lavos isnt garunteed to be gone at 1000. 1999 would be the latest date of death.

Sentenal

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2005, 03:19:03 pm »
Quote
The Lucca ghost is Lucca tho...


proof?  :)

Quote
Anyway, I always thought that no matter what, the moment that Lavos is destroyed, he's gone. He's destroyed before 1000AD and after 12,000BC. Basically, when Crono and co go back (how did they anyway? Like what happened after Lavos exploded or whatever), Lavos has been destroyed. And from 1000AD till 1010 and forward in the future, there is no Lavos present. The Dimensional Split occurs in 1010. It shouldn't matter. Because in the new future, NO ONE EVEN KNOWS ABOUT LAVOS BECAUSE HE NEVER EXISTED! Even in 1999AD, he doesn't even exist anymore. It's as if when Crono and co go back to 1000AD, there's a re-written history up to 1999AD where Lavos isn't even alive. This is why Chronopolis has no info on Lavos, or Crono and co.


In think your refering to the Pocket Dimension idea.  Lavos would be dead in his pocket dimension makes him dead through all time that he was in his pocket dimension.  The only points where Lavos would be alive would the points when he came out of his pocket dimension:  The Prehistoric Era (when he crashed).  Zeal's fall.  1999, when he tempoarily came out to begin his assualt.  So he still emerged in 1999, regardless.

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Especially since Chronopolis did exist in Home World, till a possibility occured that Serge controlled the destiny of the future. That is when the Dead Sea came in. Personally, I think that everyone in Chronopolis in home world were sent to Another and merged.


Actually, Chronopolis was never in Home World.  Home World was created the very moment Serge was saved.  It wasn't there before the split.  At that same moment, the Dead Sea replaced Chronopolis in Home, so Chronopolis was never there.

Zenning

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2005, 05:55:53 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Serge is killed.  But something happens.  (Oh, btw, Serge's death was by drowning).  Serge is saved from drowning, creating a dimensional split.  Now there are two futures, basically.

Wait, WHAT? Since when? I thought it was the Panther Demon that did Serge in! The Panther Demon kills Serge in Another World, while Serge survives the attack in Home World, to be taken to Chronopolis.

Chronopolis had to have existed in both worlds, because, El Nido was populated by people from Chronopolis.

Also, for Serge to have come into contact with the Frozen Flame, Wazuki and Miguel had to arrive in Chronopolis with him, and thus Chronopolis at one point still exited in Home World...unless a dimensional rift opened in Death's Door/The Pearly Gates, and took them to Another World.

Plus, when you meet Miguel in the Dead Sea, he tells you, "It wasn't like this when we first got here, though." Meaning that, sometime after Serge comes into contact with the Frozen Flame, the space in the Sea of Eden becomes the destroyed future, transforming into the Dead Sea.

...

I'm not entirely understanding the dimensional split. If Another World is the "real" world, in which Lavos gets defeated, and Serge dies, then...shouldn't that be the end of it? Why would another timeline be created...? Are alternate timelines created for every other possibility when it comes to a choice...?

And I'm still not understanding why Crono & Co's influence still didn't affect Home World...if you ask me, I think it's more like that Serge's existence, one way or another undid what Crono & Co did, but how would that be possible? I just don't see the logic why, one way or another, Home World ends up destroyed.

Is Home World just the opposite of Another World? Serge dies, and Lavos is defeated in Another World, while Serge survives and Lavos lives past 1999AD in Home World?

Sentenal

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2005, 06:18:43 pm »
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Crono: Where even angels lose their way... Ten years ago, you died at this very spot.
There's no mistake. You drowned.


Note, that is the Crono-Ghost, not Crono.  The Panther Demon injured him, so his Dad and Miguel took him to get help, ended up in Chronopolis, and he was healed.  His death came due to drowning.  I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass.

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Chronopolis had to have existed in both worlds, because, El Nido was populated by people from Chronopolis.


Home World did not always exist.  Its creation was 1010.  Before 1010, Chronopolis was there.  After 1010, Chronopolis was there for Another, the original world, and the Dead Sea was there for Home, the recently created world.

Zenning, you have to understand the Flow Principle.  Things in time don't happen until someone does it.  So the chain of events in my previous post should have answered.  Crono and Co. cannot Time Travel to a dimension that does not exist yet.  Home did not exist until AFTER they defeated Lavos, so there was only one version of Crono that could have defeated it.

Zaperking

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2005, 06:39:18 pm »
That's not what Garai described. Garai said that 3 years earlier (1017) Lynx took General Viper and the dragoons to the Dead Sea and they had been missing since. He stated something else that made me think that maybe until 1013, Chronopolis was still there and then the Dead Sea appeared.

Sentenal

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2005, 06:43:39 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
That's not what Garai described. Garai said that 3 years earlier (1017) Lynx took General Viper and the dragoons to the Dead Sea and they had been missing since. He stated something else that made me think that maybe until 1013, Chronopolis was still there and then the Dead Sea appeared.


...

1017 is AFTER the dimensional split.  The split is in 1010.  So any time after 1010, its the Dead Sea.  The fact that he said the Dragoons when in 1017 to THE DEAD SEA doesn't prove anything about when the Dead Sea came to be.  They were frozen no because they entered the Dead Sea, but because they tried to get the Frozen Flame without having the Arbiter among them.

Zaperking

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2005, 03:26:52 am »
I already know that. I'm trying to say that Garai said that before 1017 that in Home world, the Dead Sea did not appear till 1013 or sometime only after the time split.

Besides the point how most people say that the ToG is a part of Chronopolis >.>

Chrono'99

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2005, 06:24:12 am »
It's getting totally confusing... I'm sure Garai never said anything about the Dead Sea :?

Zaperking

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2005, 10:22:30 am »
Sorry, To recap, it was Marge who said it.
"Back then, that place wasn't called the Dead Sea... Yes, I believe they called it the "Sea of Eden"... That was 14 years ago.

Also, Marge proves that Schala was fully responsable for getting Serge and Wazuki+Miguel into the Sea of Eden. She states that they were knocked unconcious and when they came too, they were by Chronopolis, in the Dead Sea (as it is called now), which once was the Sea of Eden.

SolidSnake_8608

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2005, 07:36:42 pm »
isn't the dead sea every time line that was destroyed by Serge not dying all thrown together.  And doesn't someone say that time has frozen?

Kazuki

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Re: The Dead Sea
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2005, 08:19:47 pm »
Quote from: SolidSnake_8608
isn't the dead sea every time line that was destroyed by Serge not dying all thrown together.  And doesn't someone say that time has frozen?


The Dead Sea is a bit of the ruined future from the Lavos timeline, and it exists due to Home world having no past prior to 1010 A.D. (When Serge was saved from drowning). And since everything in the Dead Sea  appears to be stasis, yes, time appears to be frozen (the suspended waves support this).