Poll

Who would you like to see starring in any future Chrono Projects?

Schala/Kid
2 (8%)
Human Glenn
1 (4%)
Chrono/Marle Spawn
4 (16%)
Guile/Janus
6 (24%)
Serge
1 (4%)
Ayla/Kino Spawn
0 (0%)
Reptite/Dragonian ancestor/descendant
1 (4%)
Dalton
2 (8%)
New Character (explain)
6 (24%)
Original CT Team
2 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?  (Read 6916 times)

Acacia Sgt

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 06:43:28 pm »
Wait. Expand that for me. One active timeline and the rest gets send to the Darkness Beyond Time? But that wouldn't be multiverse theory, would it? In multiverse theory, there are an unlimited number of realities, each different from the rest, none of which are a prime timeline. They may have branches off of each other, but one is just real as the rest.

I may have understood you wrong.

It depends on how we define as "world" and "dimension". Do we have a single dimension housing multiple worlds, who each have their own timeline? Or each dimension is it's own world, thus more than one dimension/reality, but still housing one timeline each? Either way, there should be a 1:1 ratio for worlds/dimensions and timelines. At least, that's how I see it.

Really, it all depends on context. Words like "world" have always meant different things depending on the concept. Different world can mean the same or mean different from different dimension.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 11:06:30 pm »
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It depends on how we define as "world" and "dimension". Do we have a single dimension housing multiple worlds, who each have their own timeline? Or each dimension is it's own world, thus more than one dimension/reality, but still housing one timeline each? Either way, there should be a 1:1 ratio for worlds/dimensions and timelines. At least, that's how I see it.

Really, it all depends on context. Words like "world" have always meant different things depending on the concept. Different world can mean the same or mean different from different dimension.

Gotcha. I guess I just assumed each timeline is it's only dimension/world. The only caveat between home world and another world was an "anchor" in the form of the angellus errare, intricately linking the two in a way that would never happen under any other circumstances.

LastingDawn

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 12:10:30 pm »
That was amazing Boo the Gentleman Caller, you really captured the spirit of Masato Kato's storytelling in your planned sequel. I especially loved the idea of a broken Schala living in a self-created deluded universe. (because that is something she would definitely do) and a very powerful story beat to see play out.

The main concept is rather great, I enjoyed the idea of a Lavos failsafe gathering power and managing to resist the pull of his fate, though I am not sure how Schala would play into helping him resist this. I suppose since Lavos and Schala did share a symbiotic relationship for an endless amount of time this feeling may have manifested into a desire for ?companionship? in the main Lavos host. I am a little confused about that aspect.

All in all, it is a wonderful story and may just need a little more refinement. You said you planned it for it to be a Chrono Trigger hack at first, with 7 (perhaps 8) character limit I guess that would be...

Phase, Roba, Ada, Crono, Marle, Glenn, Schala?

I am not sure on the idea of Rouen though. Since I can't see how someone who wants to undo his crazy dad's machinations would become the embodiment of disruption and destruction.

Finally, didn't Crono already send the original future to the Darkness Beyond Time? Why would he feel conflicted and not choose to save his own era? I suppose Phase could try to stop him because of those he knows in 2200 AD and could realize that they would also be destroyed by stopping the Fall of Guardia.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2018, 03:35:38 pm »
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That was amazing Boo the Gentleman Caller, you really captured the spirit of Masato Kato's storytelling in your planned sequel. I especially loved the idea of a broken Schala living in a self-created deluded universe. (because that is something she would definitely do) and a very powerful story beat to see play out.

Thanks. I tried to envision something that captured the spirit of Chrono Trigger, but still added some of the more complexity of Cross.

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The main concept is rather great, I enjoyed the idea of a Lavos failsafe gathering power and managing to resist the pull of his fate, though I am not sure how Schala would play into helping him resist this. I suppose since Lavos and Schala did share a symbiotic relationship for an endless amount of time this feeling may have manifested into a desire for ?companionship? in the main Lavos host. I am a little confused about that aspect.

In my story, this dream world literally exists as a giant blue sphere of pulsating energy in the ice age. It's there because, after all was said and done, she decides to try and spend her energy on helping the people of her own era, but once she arrived there, her willpower was sapped and she sank into a deep depression, ultimately choosing that she would rather live in a false, perfect reality rather than the real world.

So in my envisioned plot, you actually have to travel to Schala's false reality / dream world twice. The first would be about equivalent to when Crono and company first visit the End of Time in Chrono Cross. The first time you travel there is for intel and to ask Schala to join the heroes at the Time Research Laboratory with Balthasar; she gives the first info dump about why the Chrono Cross reality no longer exists, and she reveals that the Serge of Chrono Cross was ultimately destined to become an Assassin of Time. She refuses to join the party, but does feel a kinship to Phase for the exact reasons you describe, although she doesn't recognize it -- she was bonded with Lavos as the Dream Devourer in the Darkness Beyond Time, and Phase is a sort of semi-manifestation of Lavos. Phase feels drawn to Schala, as well. I also envision a hint of attraction.

Throughout the story, Phase would think about Schala often. He pities her, but he also mentions wanting to help her.

Later, the party returns to the false reality of Schala and is able to snap her out of her reverie. In fact, it is only because of Phase's motivation that she can move forward and face the reality. She joins the party, and for the rest of the game, the two bond. Later, when Phase learns that he is just another destined Assassin of Time, Schala resolves to save him, as she couldn't save Serge.

The party spends time trying to stop Phase, but we ultimately realize that their attempts only hastened the process. In 3 million BC, at the moment when mankind first encounters the Frozen Flame, Phase absorbs the last pieces of energy needed to ignite the transformation into the Assassin of Time. It happens biologically -- his physical body literally begins to blister and transform (think Akira meets a Star Craft Zerg), and Schala pleads with him to save himself. Unfortunately, Phase has no control over the process and literally can't stop himself.

As a sort of fleshly cocoon-pod begins to form over the transforming Phase, the final stage of the transformation, Schala leaps into the pod and momentarily merges with Phase. The two are trapped within the pod, and the party laments that they've failed in their mission; Phase has evolved into the Assassin of Time and will soon rejoin Lavos, and Schala with him (assuming she even survived). However, the pod breaks down, revealing a perfectly fine Phase and Schala -- her willpower (and experience as having been previously linked to Lavos) allowed her to save Phase.

Meanwhile, a time-traveling Dalton has observed this, eventually leaps into the pod, and becomes and incomplete Assassin of Time with the goal of becoming a god - becoming Lavos. He is ultimately the big bad for the final act of the story.

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All in all, it is a wonderful story and may just need a little more refinement. You said you planned it for it to be a Chrono Trigger hack at first, with 7 (perhaps 8) character limit I guess that would be...

Phase, Roba, Ada, Crono, Marle, Glenn, Schala?

I envisioned it as a cast of 9.
-Phase is first, and he is quickly joined by his rival and a descendant of Toma from 1200AD.
-They then meet a time-traveling Robo on a mission for Balthasar, and the three join up.
-They then travel to 2300AD and Ada joins the team.
-Later they gain Marle in 1005AD.
-They would then get a new character, a Reptite and the daughter of Azala in ~65 million BC.
-After spending a chunk of the story trying to save Glenn (which is why they had to return to 65 million BC), they would save Glenn, turn him human, and he would join the party.
-I hadn't fully decided on the other new character, but I was picturing a returning Chrono Cross character who was from Zenan mainland and thus not part of the erased Chrono Cross timeline. I had considered Zappa (who would be a much younger man) or better yet, a teenage Norris. I had also considered a character from 3 million BC; perhaps one of the first people to learn magic from the Frozen Flame?
-The second-to-last character would be optional, who would be Crono.
-The final character, equivalent to Magus, would have been Schala.

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I am not sure on the idea of Rouen though. Since I can't see how someone who wants to undo his crazy dad's machinations would become the embodiment of disruption and destruction.

So I had a complete first draft of the story that is pages and pages long. Rouen doesn't even exist in the second draft, nor is there any exploration around counter-time, so I admittedly never fleshed out how he would work or fit into the story. In my mind, Balthasar is sort of a control freak - he wants to master time. Look at Chrono Cross and his almost god complex with the complexity of orchestrating Project Kid. Even though the version of Balthasar we meet in my story is yet another version of Balthasar, this version maintains that same desire to control. Thus, his son was envisioned as a counter. Where Balthasar wants to meticulously control and manage for an optimal outcome, his son would be chaotic, driven by anger (or insanity) and want to destroy. This was written years ago, before the new Star Wars trilogy, but I picture Rouen being akin to Kylo Ren in his dynamism.

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Finally, didn't Crono already send the original future to the Darkness Beyond Time? Why would he feel conflicted and not choose to save his own era? I suppose Phase could try to stop him because of those he knows in 2200 AD and could realize that they would also be destroyed by stopping the Fall of Guardia.

Well, the note from Lucca in Chrono Cross mentions that they never considered the negative fallout of their efforts until after the events of Chrono Cross. They just thought they would destroy Lavos, save the future, and that would be that. I don't think they considered the moral implications until much later.

In fact, what you mentioned in a part of the story. When Marle joins the party, they intentionally try to hide the fact that Guardia is going to fall in a short time. Phase, who was studying history and the fall of Guardia, wanted to tell her, but Balthasar and the others essentially force him to keep his mouth shut. If they should stop the fall from happening, there will be yet another 2300AD timeline, and in that, it is possible Balthasar won't have his Chronoscope (invented in this timeline) to monitor and police space-time.

Later, when she finds out she goes ballistic. She actually leaves the party before eventually recognizing that the threat of the Assassin of Time is far worse than the fate of her kingdom. She does promise that she'll save Guardia however necessary once they finish their quest.

(A note about Marle's characterization in my story: Crono and Marle are engaged and to be married. Crono is undergoing training and is a retainer for the King, trying to learn the ropes of his future royalty. He is super serious about it and very focused. Marle, on the other hand, is wanting to settle down, raise a family, and she is still considering whether or not she is capable of the responsibilities of wife/mother/queen. Thus, Marle and Crono are somewhat at odds; Marle is shirking her duties, while Crono is almost embracing them too much).

The war between Porre and Guardia begins during the story I plotted, and I went back and forth on how much to explore of the fated battle at Guardia Castle. If you remember, I mention that Dalton has the Forge - Melchior's artifact that grants him control over dreams and life. This is what allows him to possess the Masamune and corrupt it, and it's his control over the Masamune that allows him to destroy Guardia.

One of the first missions the party has in the new 2300AD is helping Lucca and Ada retrieve the Frozen Flame for their lab, as they needed it to power the place (sort of echoing Crimson Echoes). It lays at the bottom of the ocean floor in the ruins of the Mammon Machine, so there would be a dungeon to retrieve it. It would then be installed at the Time Research Laboratory and would power it. You would later learn that Balthasar can use the Frozen Flame (completely under his control using annihilation energy) to create a sort of space-time anomaly around the lab, making it exist in a pocket dimension.

I ultimately figured that events would explore the party stealing the Forge from Dalton in 605AD. Without the Forge, he would never be able to raise Porre up into the powerful nation it is, and he would never be able to destroy Guardia. Crono and Marle would ultimately decide to save their history and allow the multiverse to take care of the rest. After all, we'd learn that the Darkness Beyond Time doesn't actually hold discarded/erased timelines, only echoes of timelines created via time travel. Thus, no time timeline is ever erased, only new timelines can be created.

In game we'd see Porre shrink from a mega cityscape into it's more traditional form as seen in Chrono Trigger. You'd also learn that the fact that the Time Research Lab exists in a pocket dimension outside of space-time makes it exist despite further timeline changes.

I sort of did that so this version of Balthasar would be the last (from a story perspective). Constantly rewriting history and creating new 2300AD - and new versions of Balthsa - would be lame.

chrono.source

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 12:03:21 pm »
Due to the DBT being such an enigma, is it possible that although they are not in any specified "reality", they are still active/alive in some way? Therefore still ringing true to a multiverse theory?

We would need to revisit what constitutes an "active" universe. Thoughts?

Also Boo, I'm loving this plot you have going on. Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"? Just curious. Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well? As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2018, 12:56:28 pm »
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Also Boo, I'm loving this plot you have going on. Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"? Just curious. Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well? As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?

Great questions, let's discuss!

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Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"?

Yes. Full credit to MrBekkler and Lance for helping me come up with the name.

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Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well?

Well, the whole idea is that Serge was erased from existence along with the Chrono Cross timelines. Schala literally had to remove the entire Chrono Cross timeline to ensure that he cannot exist, or else he's destined to become the Assassin of Time. However, there is a version of Serge that lives with Schala in the false reality she's created for herself. Letting go of a false reality is a challenge for her.

I also hint that the Schala "Kid" Zeal coda we see in Chrono Cross is just a glimpse of that false reality. There's a picture of Kid and Serge in regal attire, and this is very possibly a part of that false reality. Somber, right?

There's also a strong hint that Phase is perhaps a "reincarnation" of Serge, although there's no much there story-wise that can indicate that. It would be more of a vapid plot point, like the Entity in Chrono Trigger.

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As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?

So much of Phase's adventure is orchestrated by Lavos. Like Balthasar in Chrono Cross, who orchestrated Serge's adventure to ensure that he is strong enough to acquire the Chrono Cross and tackle the Time Devourer, Lavos orchestrated this counter plan. So we eventually learn that much of Phase's adventure was geared to push him to become the Assassin of Time.

When he does become the Assassin of Time, the process is fairly instantaneous. Once absorbing the final elements, his body immediately begins to transform - becoming encased in a sort of cocoon, and within minutes the transformation would occur and he could rejoin Lavos. This event happens in 3 million BC, so Phase would be able to rejoin Lavos at this point in time. Seeing that Lavos absorbs genetic material of all life to strengthen itself, this additional join would simply push his abilities to ensure that his ascension in 1999AD is final.

Dalton, however, is a mere human who was not created for this endeavor. He *can* become an "incomplete Assassin of Time, and essentially fulfill the same role, but he can't undergo the biological transformation immediately and instead needs "millions of years" to complete the metamorphosis.

What I envision in the game would be that Phase undergoes his transformation, Schala tries to stop him and leaps into the cocoon with him right before it closes, the groups laments their losses, and the cocoon breaks open, freeing Phase and Schala, Phase having used the transformation process to become fully human and remove the Lavos presence from himself.

Meanwhile, Dalton has been in the sidelines and leaps into the cocoon, causing it to seal behind him. Dalton echoes his grandiose plans and both he and the cocoon are shunted to the Darkness Beyond Time. Since he will take millions, maybe even billions of years, to transform, he can't do that on standard planet time. Since time doesn't exist in the Darkness Beyond Time in the standard sense, he can go there and undergo his transformation. Millions of years may happen there and he can still emerge at any point in space-time without a moment having passed.

There are events as the heroes try to get to the Darkness Beyond Time, and once they find a way to travel there, it serves as a final dungeon and would be a combination of various points in space-time mashed together, including events from discarded timelines (including Chrono Cross areas).



chrono.source

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 11:32:52 am »
I'm really liking this take on things. Has any groundwork been laid out for this as a viable project?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 01:20:14 pm »
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Has any groundwork been laid out for this as a viable project?

No. A small group of us were talking and working on this back in 2014, but it ended later that year. I wrote the first draft, and we started working a second draft (for example, the second draft added Rouen and the new aspect of counter-time), but the second draft never went far.

I have a few incomplete sprites that I built.

That was about it. It's been derelict ever since.

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2018, 09:49:01 am »

No. A small group of us were talking and working on this back in 2014, but it ended later that year. I wrote the first draft, and we started working a second draft (for example, the second draft added Rouen and the new aspect of counter-time), but the second draft never went far.

I have a few incomplete sprites that I built.

That was about it. It's been derelict ever since.

That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2018, 12:47:18 pm »
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That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.

Right? I was hoping the Steam release would have brought in some more new blood. :/

If nothing else, thanks for the endorsement of the idea. I've been prone to write a multitude of Chrono fanquels, so it's nice to see that this concept is well received, since it was my favorite.

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2018, 09:45:40 am »
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That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.

Right? I was hoping the Steam release would have brought in some more new blood. :/

If nothing else, thanks for the endorsement of the idea. I've been prone to write a multitude of Chrono fanquels, so it's nice to see that this concept is well received, since it was my favorite.

So there are plan of expansion now

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2018, 10:29:10 am »
Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2018, 02:28:07 pm »
Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).

oh absolutely, I did not mean to propose in the new spiritual successor, but simply as your own piece.

CH86

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2018, 10:32:24 pm »
Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).

oh absolutely, I did not mean to propose in the new spiritual successor, but simply as your own piece.

I'm mostly a lurker here but almost two years ago I posted a thread regarding a Chrono trigger 2 where I made several posts before I got lazy and Lost interest in it (however I'm thinking of reviving it). Regarding main characters I was thinking of Using Chrono Crisis' protagonists Xavier, Matison and Cecilia.

Time Periods I was thinking of using were 1999 AD, 2325 AD, 11975 BC, 7600 BC, 1 AD, 1025 AD, and the end of time (at least). Villains would have been King Zeal who's goal would be to rebuild Zeal but would be unwittingly carrying out Lavos will, and therefore cannot be allowed to succeed. Dalton would be Zeal's deputy but also with an agenda of his own.

Regarding the time periods of the proposed sequel 1999 AD would be fully explored as well as the successor periods to the Chrono trigger eras. There would also be at least two new time periods: 7600 BC and 1 AD.

I also envisaged schala being split in two by a time paradox, with regular Schala being sent to and eventually being rescued from the timestream but with Asteria also having been split from Schala and who was sent to 7650 BC where she builds a Magitek empire (Magitek being objects and elemental weapons that can unlock humans who have latent genetic magic abilities as pure-blood enlightened bloodlines have largely dwindled/died out after the fall of zeal, these also have military uses and a Magitek arms race/global war is the major feature of this period.) over the next 50 years in order to locate and gather up Zealian artifacts (these artifacts are also able to replenish/refuel the magitek weaponry as well) so that she can unlock the sun stone in order to conduct a ritual that would make herself a god as well as being able to locate Janus as well as giving herself the capability that she hopes would be able to destroy lavos/time devourer on her own. This ritual also requires a "downpayment" in mass bloodshed and Asteria has no qualms about doing so in order to advance her preparations; so she is also a Major villain albeit unconnected with King Zeal and Daltons plans.

Janus/Magus would also be a playable character and had returned to 12000 BC after the events of Chrono Trigger and thus can be found in 11975 BC. Finally Schala would be playable once rescued from the timestream. King Zeal and the Time Devourer would be the proposed final bosses of the game.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 10:52:36 pm by CH86 »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: For any future Chrono Projects, who should star as the main characters?
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2018, 11:06:24 pm »
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Time Periods I was thinking of using were 1999 AD, 2325 AD, 11975 BC, 7600 BC, 1 AD, 1025 AD, and the end of time (at least). Villains would have been King Zeal who's goal would be to rebuild Zeal but would be unwittingly carrying out Lavos will, and therefore cannot be allowed to succeed. Dalton would be Zeal's deputy but also with an agenda of his own.

There's some cool ideas around Asteria and the 7600BC era. Did you happen to play Crimson Echoes? You may like what they did with King Zeal in that game. :)