Author Topic: Is there anyone else who...  (Read 3349 times)

Beach Bum

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Is there anyone else who...
« on: May 31, 2018, 02:45:27 am »
...Always changes Frog's name to Glenn when playing Chrono Trigger?

He's the only character I rename. Glenn is his real name, and he never chose the name "Frog" when he was changed into a frog. He still just used his regular name, which is Glenn. It just seems stupid to me to call him Frog.

There are others in the game who have other names, but I leave them alone. Robo's original "name" is Prometheus or R66-Y, but when you meet him he doesn't remember Prometheus (I think, and it's too long anyway) and he seems okay with being given a new name. Marle's name is really Nadia, but she chose the name Marle for herself to escape the royalty life. Magus' name is really Janus, but he himself changed it to Magus when he became the leader of the mystics. And since you recruit Magus late in the game, and he's referred to throughout the entire game as Magus, it makes no sense to change it back to Janus. Plus, he's a completely different person now.

Anyone else who changes names?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 02:59:48 am »
Does he? I'm pretty sure the first time he ever refers to himself as Glenn in the game is when he opens up the path to the Magic Cave. Before that the name is only ever seen during the flashbacks. Considering the scene at the Magic Cave, where he gathers his resolves and becomes at peace with the shame and regrets of what happened to Cyrus, plus his transformation, it makes me think that perhaps he also stopped using his name. Come to think of it, looking over at the script, it doesn't look like anyone actually knows Frog is Glenn (although in the Retranslation notes it states that perhaps the Knight Captain has figured it out, but the line itself seems ambigious enough), which would make no sense if he still called himself Glenn. Him being a human-turned-frogman is no secret, so just saying his name is Glenn would give away he is the same one that left with Cyrus.

On to the question itself, no, I don't really rename anybody.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 03:05:23 am by Acacia Sgt »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 03:08:34 am »
    Me me me!

    I change Frog to Glenn, but I also change Magus to Janus. That's it.

Crono is Crono because, well, that's who he is.[/li][/list]

Marle remains Marle because she is incognito and is using a travelling name, so she obviously wouldn't use her real name. However, I would change her name after the reveal of who she is if the game allowed. I always use my head canon to just assume that Marle is actually her middle name and a nickname of sorts, even before meeting Crono, so that's why she sticks with it even after revealing that she's Princess Nadia.

Lucca remains Lucca because she's Lucca.

Ayla also remains Ayla. I never saw a reason to change it.

Robo remains Robo because his serial number, R-66Y, is just so impersonal. The whole point in Marle changing his name was to give some pizzazz and some personalization. Prometheus doesn't fit, but it's also just an assumed name given to him from Mother Brain during the whole robot rebellion. Once he forgets it all and chooses to help Crono and company, he technically is no longer Prometheus; that part of his memory is corrupted and gone, so it doesn't make sense for him to go by Prometheus. I should note in my first two or three playthroughs I did change his name to Iron, but now I stick with Robo.

Frog, as I said, remains Glenn. He lost his human form and honor, but he is still Glenn. I'd like to think when he finally claims the Masamune and regains his sense of self, he does so as Glenn, not as a false identify of Frog.

Magus, to me, is dead by the time the party gets him to join the team. I don't mean a literal death, of course, but rather mean that, well, Janus is reborn. As Beach Bum stated, Janus was no more after the Ocean Palace disaster. He shed his identity and became Magus, manipulating the Mystics/Fiends and pushing the boundaries of his body in order to enact his revenge against Lavos. However, after coming full circle, confronting the loss of Schala (again, quite literally reliving the event), he sort of sheds the life he lived as Magus. He no longer acts or considers himself the Fiendlord, and he steels his resolve to continue to defeat Lavos and save Schala. To me, I always felt like Magus regains his sense of self and comes to terms with who he really is (as Janus) after those events, and thus I name him as Janus to recognize that, to me at least, he regains his sense of self lost so long ago.

Mauron

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 04:19:12 am »
I'm inconsistent on who I rename. Frog to Glenn and Robo to R-66Y are the two most common, but sometimes I rename a few others too. Robo is mostly for Marle's lines in that scene, and having her say R-66Y is a much better name than R-66Y.

chrono.source

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 10:08:01 am »
Magus, to me, is dead by the time the party gets him to join the team. I don't mean a literal death, of course, but rather mean that, well, Janus is reborn. As Beach Bum stated, Janus was no more after the Ocean Palace disaster. He shed his identity and became Magus, manipulating the Mystics/Fiends and pushing the boundaries of his body in order to enact his revenge against Lavos. However, after coming full circle, confronting the loss of Schala (again, quite literally reliving the event), he sort of sheds the life he lived as Magus. He no longer acts or considers himself the Fiendlord, and he steels his resolve to continue to defeat Lavos and save Schala. To me, I always felt like Magus regains his sense of self and comes to terms with who he really is (as Janus) after those events, and thus I name him as Janus to recognize that, to me at least, he regains his sense of self lost so long ago.

I just had this disagreement with someone on reddit. I was arguing that Magus is a completely different character (same person) but due to character developement, completey different than Janus.

Back on topic however, I always change Frog to Glenn, Marle to Nadia, Robo to R66-Y, Magus.... depends on my mood whether or not I change his name.

Beach Bum

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 10:17:37 am »
Does he? I'm pretty sure the first time he ever refers to himself as Glenn in the game is when he opens up the path to the Magic Cave. Before that the name is only ever seen during the flashbacks. Considering the scene at the Magic Cave, where he gathers his resolves and becomes at peace with the shame and regrets of what happened to Cyrus, plus his transformation, it makes me think that perhaps he also stopped using his name. Come to think of it, looking over at the script, it doesn't look like anyone actually knows Frog is Glenn (although in the Retranslation notes it states that perhaps the Knight Captain has figured it out, but the line itself seems ambigious enough), which would make no sense if he still called himself Glenn. Him being a human-turned-frogman is no secret, so just saying his name is Glenn would give away he is the same one that left with Cyrus.

On to the question itself, no, I don't really rename anybody.

Wow, actually, you could be right. Come to think of it, when Tata finds the Hero's Medal, the king is like "Cyrus must have sent the boy to us." They don't even know he died, do they?

That is insane. My mind is blown right now.

Maybe Glenn didn't take "Frog" as his literal name, but he just uses "Frog" to obscure his identity. That puts things in a whole different perspective.

It's weird that Leene and he are so close then tho. Leene seems really concerned about him, more so than any other soldier. And why did they trust a funny looking frog-man who looks more like a mystic than a human? If they don't know he's Glenn, do they ever find out during the game?

Magus, to me, is dead by the time the party gets him to join the team. I don't mean a literal death, of course, but rather mean that, well, Janus is reborn. As Beach Bum stated, Janus was no more after the Ocean Palace disaster. He shed his identity and became Magus, manipulating the Mystics/Fiends and pushing the boundaries of his body in order to enact his revenge against Lavos. However, after coming full circle, confronting the loss of Schala (again, quite literally reliving the event), he sort of sheds the life he lived as Magus. He no longer acts or considers himself the Fiendlord, and he steels his resolve to continue to defeat Lavos and save Schala. To me, I always felt like Magus regains his sense of self and comes to terms with who he really is (as Janus) after those events, and thus I name him as Janus to recognize that, to me at least, he regains his sense of self lost so long ago.

I don't see Magus as just being the leader of the mystics. What happened to him shaped not only his appearance, but also his personality, attitude and probably the nature of his magic. He sort of lives in the darkness, even after Chrono Trigger, resolved to his singular goal of finding Schala.

After the fall of Zeal he also makes a speech about his past self and how he was a different person then. I feel like if he came to terms with his old self as Janus, he would have said something about that.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:27:24 am by Beach Bum »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 11:32:29 am »
Wow, actually, you could be right. Come to think of it, when Tata finds the Hero's Medal, the king is like "Cyrus must have sent the boy to us." They don't even know he died, do they?

That is insane. My mind is blown right now.

Maybe Glenn didn't take "Frog" as his literal name, but he just uses "Frog" to obscure his identity. That puts things in a whole different perspective.

It's weird that Leene and he are so close then tho. Leene seems really concerned about him, more so than any other soldier. And why did they trust a funny looking frog-man who looks more like a mystic than a human? If they don't know he's Glenn, do they ever find out during the game?

Yeah, they still think Cyrus is alive for most of the game. The only time I saw people in 600AD aknowledge Cyrus's death is after doing the Northern Fortress sidequest. It seems even in the original timeline they never knew what happened to him. Choras in 1000AD still only thinks of the fortress as a ghost-infested den to avoid before doing the sidequest. After some years it'd be easy to deduce, but it likely never was figured out during the war proper. At least until you do the sidequest.

Actually, some people do have trust issues with Frog. Some even think he might be a Mystic spy. It's likely that if the King and Queen weren't among the ones who trusted Frog, he might not have been able to stay in Guardia once he returned for the first time in his changed state. As for poeple ever finding out... no, it doesn't look like they did. At least in 600AD. After doing the sidequest, at least one NPC in 1000AD Choras mentioned Glenn by name using the Masamune/Grandleon to defeat Magus. So it seems Frog did revealed he was Glenn, but not during the game. Of course, if you consider the animated ending where it shows Glenn returned to his human form, regardless of what happened to Magus, then perhaps it was a foregone conclusion of telling the whole truth, in that case.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:34:24 am by Acacia Sgt »

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 11:33:51 am »
I always change Frog to Glenn and Marle to Nadia. I just like the name Nadia better. I did try to change Robo to Johnny-5 once, but it's too long. LOL

V_Translanka

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 12:57:56 pm »
To be fair, by the time Magus joins the party his time as "Magus" is long-gone as well...So it'd probably be most appropriate to rename him Gil or Magil (Guile if you absolutely must)...

Nothing much seemed to fit for Epoch, but I do recall at least once renaming it RX-XR...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 01:01:09 pm by V_Translanka »

Razig

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 10:52:03 pm »
After you've talked to Cyrus's ghost, the headstone's inscription changes to "Cyrus sleeps here, avenged by his friend Glenn." The townspeople could have gotten Glenn's name from there, although that doesn't explain how they know he "used a legendary sword to beat the Magus's troops."

(As a side note, this is one of the few times "Magus" is treated as a title rather than a personal name, which is more correct but still looks odd to my eyes.)

Since it's well known that Frog defeated Magus, this line would seem to indicate that people (at least in Choras, anyway) know that Frog is Glenn. I think it's probably just an oversight on the part of the writers, though.

I suspect that, in addition to hiding his shame, Frog stopped using his real name because nobody would believe him anyway, and if they did believe him, they'd naturally want to know what happened to Cyrus. He couldn't afford to tell anyone that, because it's much better for morale if the kingdom's greatest hero is listed as "missing" rather than "dead." (And not just dead, but "killed by the kingdom's worst enemy, without very much effort at all.")
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:00:20 pm by Razig »

tushantin

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 03:33:16 am »
He couldn't afford to tell anyone that, because it's much better for morale if the kingdom's greatest hero is listed as "missing" rather than "dead." (And not just dead, but "killed by the kingdom's worst enemy, without very much effort at all.")

I disagree. If he was missing, it's lamer, because it assumes Cyrus was kidnapped or something. If he wasn't kidnapped or lost or something, then he's likely a deserter who has abandoned his own people because of his cowardice. That makes him the opposite of a Hero that people revere him to be.

People know he's still just a human being, and despite that he outlived most of the troops he was with, and reached Magus to take him on mano-a-mano. Even if he failed, he sacrificed himself for a cause that will not be forgotten. The fact that, despite his fears, he was willing to take on an entire army of fiends because somebody needs to, that can boost the morale of some soldiers, except for the ones who may have given up to their helplessness.

Anything other than death, in this case, could negatively affect the people's morale even further, because how could Cyrus go missing if the people he vowed to protect are still dying every day?

Razig

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 05:00:35 am »
I disagree. If he was missing, it's lamer, because it assumes Cyrus was kidnapped or something. If he wasn't kidnapped or lost or something, then he's likely a deserter who has abandoned his own people because of his cowardice. That makes him the opposite of a Hero that people revere him to be.
Or he's still on his quest. Or indeed lost or taken captive. Just because a guy is missing, that doesn't mean he's turned coward. A big theme of this game is the power of hope. A possibly alive hero is more hopeful than a definitely dead one.

People know he's still just a human being, and despite that he outlived most of the troops he was with, and reached Magus to take him on mano-a-mano. Even if he failed, he sacrificed himself for a cause that will not be forgotten. The fact that, despite his fears, he was willing to take on an entire army of fiends because somebody needs to, that can boost the morale of some soldiers, except for the ones who may have given up to their helplessness.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Cyrus didn't go after Magus or take on an entire army of fiends. He set out to recover the Hero's Medal and search for the Masamune. Based on what we see in the game, it seems more likely that Magus ambushed him as he left the Masamune cave.

Anything other than death, in this case, could negatively affect the people's morale even further, because how could Cyrus go missing if the people he vowed to protect are still dying every day?
Then why didn't Frog tell the truth? Why did he tell the lie of omission that left people thinking Cyrus was still alive?

tushantin

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 01:03:03 pm »
People know he's still just a human being, and despite that he outlived most of the troops he was with, and reached Magus to take him on mano-a-mano. Even if he failed, he sacrificed himself for a cause that will not be forgotten. The fact that, despite his fears, he was willing to take on an entire army of fiends because somebody needs to, that can boost the morale of some soldiers, except for the ones who may have given up to their helplessness.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Cyrus didn't go after Magus or take on an entire army of fiends. He set out to recover the Hero's Medal and search for the Masamune. Based on what we see in the game, it seems more likely that Magus ambushed him as he left the Masamune cave.

Yikes! If that's the case, I must have completely forgotten. (Then again, it's probably been almost 10 years since I last played the game...)

Still, he was a major figure in Guardia even before then, I presume. He may have heard the rumor (no idea who was spreading it or how on earth they know about it) that the legendary sword Masamune and the Hero's Medal could give them all a chance against the fiends and their magic, especially Magus, and the fact that he may have overcome the trial of Masa and Mune to wield the sword to begin with, despite being human, says a lot about him and perhaps may inspire the other troops who may feel helpless against the fiends and their superior might.

I disagree. If he was missing, it's lamer, because it assumes Cyrus was kidnapped or something. If he wasn't kidnapped or lost or something, then he's likely a deserter who has abandoned his own people because of his cowardice. That makes him the opposite of a Hero that people revere him to be.
Or he's still on his quest. Or indeed lost or taken captive. Just because a guy is missing, that doesn't mean he's turned coward. A big theme of this game is the power of hope. A possibly alive hero is more hopeful than a definitely dead one.

Maybe, but who would go out to find him? Assuming he's a major figure who was indeed capable of acquiring the Masamune, being the best chance the kingdom has, maybe the entire Kingdom of Guardia would be on the look-out for him? How long has it been since he died? Also, with an imminent threat on the horizon, that of the fiends, would it not be a useful assumption to regroup your resources for defense and assume that he has, in fact, died?

You can perhaps also imagine if Frog / Glenn frequents Inns / Pubs at Guardia (and maybe gets mistaken for a Mystic, idfk), sitting in silence somewhere and hearing gossips about Cyrus, perhaps, still being alive somewhere and the King has offered a bounty to have him found, while some spreading rumors about maybe, just maybe, he may have deserted them all, being hushed out by others who still believe in him. If Glenn is right there, wouldn't he rather them all not waste their resources and man-power on something futile? Maybe he calls them stupid, tells them he's dead, offers no explanation, and just walks away.

But again, I may be missing details, because -- as I said -- it's been pretty long since i played the game.


Anything other than death, in this case, could negatively affect the people's morale even further, because how could Cyrus go missing if the people he vowed to protect are still dying every day?
Then why didn't Frog tell the truth? Why did he tell the lie of omission that left people thinking Cyrus was still alive?

Wait, he did?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 03:53:32 pm »
Personally, reactions about Cyrus all depend on how much people knew him. The whole "people might think he deserted" can only hold if people think that's something he might do. Not everyone is going to see the worst in everything. Specially those who knew Cyrus personally. That said, some NPC dialogue do show that some people have started to think just that. I know one NPC at least is worried that Cyrus might have really abandoned them. Said NPC is a random villager, though. It's in big contrast to say, Queene Leene, who thinks Cyrus had a hand in Tata having the Hero's Medal.

It shows that it's not unreasonable for many people still cling to the hope Cyrus is still alive and still doing stuff. After all, someone like Queen Leene knew Cyrus for years, so she'd not think Cyrus to have become a coward, unlike random NPC who quite likely didn't met him.

And I'd say, I kinda agree on the notion that knowing he's dead would be more demoralizing. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda equate to situations like that of El Cid. The legend goes that after dying his corpse was propped up on his horse, to give the allusion he was still alive. Whether or not that actually happened, it shows that there can be an effect, to both ally and enemy, about whether someone is still alive or not.

But you know... now that makes me wonder. Just how did no one from the Mystics/Fiends ever thought of revealing Magus had killed Cyrus to the humans? I could see Ozzie as the kind of individual who would love to divulge stuff like that, and he was there to witness it, to boot.

tushantin

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Re: Is there anyone else who...
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 05:53:20 pm »
But you know... now that makes me wonder. Just how did no one from the Mystics/Fiends ever thought of revealing Magus had killed Cyrus to the humans? I could see Ozzie as the kind of individual who would love to divulge stuff like that, and he was there to witness it, to boot.
Man, gimme some Ozzie propaganda! I'd love to see how he makes mountains out of mole-hills.  :lol: