Poll

If the series truly is dead, what kind of fan continuance would you like to see?

A full-size RPGMaker game.
4 (26.7%)
A full-size CT ROM hack, like Crimson Echoes.
7 (46.7%)
More Prophet's Guile vignette ROM Hacks.
2 (13.3%)
A Chrono Cross ROM hack.
2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: If the series truly is dead, what kind of fan continuance would you like to see?  (Read 2859 times)

tushantin

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I've considered this same concept around an "inspired by" approach. The result essentially revolved around second universe that was created due to time travel shenanigans, but the rules of time travel were different in this universe-- namely, predestination paradox was a reality and time itself could not be changed (and attempts to do resulted in the timeline as it is).

The plot then followed a group of time travelers who were trying to alter history, only to later realize that their efforts were what led to the very situation they were trying to stop.

So, Steins;Gate, basically. Amazing anime, I must say. It'll be going down in history.

The plot was fully fleshed out, but it became one of those things too big for one person with a job like mine, on top of a family. I looked at Ara Fell as a definite inspiration, though. It took that guy over a decade, but he finally did it.

We don't have to spend that long, honestly, due to the immense risk factor of the game not doing well in the market. We can start small and finish quickly, build upon our successes and then use those successes to build more ambitious games by scouring for bigger talents to help lift it off the ground.

I say all that to say that time travel is definitely a fun factor and still relevant... although to be honest, it doesn't have to be a set requirement for a Chrono-inspired game.

I agree. I remember utunnels and I were working on a Radical Dreamers beat-em up specifically for that reason, because we thought a re-newed RD adventure game could revitalize interest in this less-remembered Chrono game. We weren't able to finish it due to the massive undertaking, obviously (even though I made sprites and shit, such as for Kid), but it still was simple enough to theoretically complete it with enough resources -- it's just find a foe and kick the shit out of them.

Of course, eventually I realized that if I'm investing so much energy into this it may as well be an original project, which broke into two different types of gameplay -- Stealth and Beat-em up. I believe an RD-like story would benefit from the Stealth genre (alike Thief and Stealth Inc series), meanwhile I have a different vision for the Beat-em Up genre. But I digress.

This is definitely an option, although opening it to be a for-profit project creates a plethora of issues... Ownership of ideas, profit share, resources, etc. Definitely not the type of a project fit for a community-wise reach unless there are blatant contracts in place and what not.

Eh, we just need to be clear about our negotiations. For instance, if it's a Community Game, then you can make the game opensource, allowing it to be forked (with a specific license, like GPL, MIT, etc.), especially if the game consists of voluntary contributions, but you can also take control of what goes into the game and whether or not you accept those contributions to begin with. The fact that the donation of the code is voluntary, and is licensed as opensource and free, needs to be written down. Neither a voluntary contributor nor the contracted professional owns any right to the game itself nor will be payed equity / royalties for it (unless you promise them to), but they do own rights to specific aspects of the game that still allows you to sell it commercially on platforms like, say, Steam.

But there will also be proprietary stuff, such as stuff you hire professionals build for you -- such as code, art, etc. that will not exist in the public Git repository. Also, for instance, if you hire me to make art for you, you still own the rights for that art and character because you've specifically paid me for it. You can also make the license a little more liberal for me so that it gives me the rights to not only use the old art as my portfolio-piece, etc. but I can also make NEW artwork / fan-art for the same game, which isn't being paid for by you, but can serve as a great marketing material for your game even if I sell the artwork for my personal profit. (If there are legal issues around that, then I can just ask to have it be sold through you or something.)

(Basically, I'm pretty much nurturing you guys as my future employers. Not that it's a bad thing.)

And finally, the rights-holder would have to be a single entity, either a person or a legally-bound group (like a company, even if it's not a sole-proprietor). And that holder would need to be the one to organize everything, including hiring people to get stuff done, managing tasks, looking up potential marketing solutions, etc. (something that, man, FaustWolf was amazing at). Even if it's just an organizer with no creative skill, that's perfectly fine because they can get shit done. But that organizer doesn't "have" to be the de-facto owner of the rights either; the owner could be you, and you're essentially hiring an organizer to do manage everything for you so that you can be focused on your vision and shit.

Yeah, pretty much doable. As it is I don't really own anything I do for my clients anyway, so being hired by a community isn't so bad. XD And if a single person doesn't have those funds, we can also crowdfund the project once we have a proof-of-concept. A minimum-viable-product, if you will.

Heck, we also need good Game Designers... So we have to start small, cuz we got none, nor are we experienced in it. We wuz just Rom-Hackers and sheeit.

We also lack actual doers -- coders who can put the game together. We've seen a dozen projects fall because everyone wants to be an idea man but no one wants to really get their hands dirty with coding and assembly (and I blame myself for being guilty of this at times).

Oi, Mauron! What do you say about coding on Godot via C# or its native script? (I swear, you better say the test-dummies will also be released on Linux, or else. OR ELSE!)

tushantin

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Oh yeah, sorry for double-posting, but I forgot. If you wanna start small and slowly expand, and nostalgic for Rom-Hacking, you can use the Accretion-model of development for your own original game.

Basically,

1) You first create a very tiny game with a functional base-system,
2) Make some money,
3) Invest it into that SAME GAME by rom-hacking your own game and expand that game as a sequel,
4) Resell your own rom-hacked game,
5) Go back to 2 and repeat,
6) ?????
7) Build your own Ironman suit and join the Avengers.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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So, Steins;Gate, basically. Amazing anime, I must say. It'll be going down in history.

I haven't seen it, but heard of it. I had no idea it involved time travel. Now my interest is piqued.

As for your thoughts, tush, I think there are some merits to it.

I do think a kickstarter would be the way to go. A minimally viable product would need to be produced and those would would work on it would have to do so for free. We'd also need both a business plan and a project plan to ensure timelines, funding, etc. There has to be management of finance, accounts, and legal write-ups. All of this done before it ever gets to Kickstarter. Obviously, they'd have room to change as needed, but that would be part of the up front expectation. Any time money exchanges hands, things get tricky.

I do agree that this is manageable, but I think it's also a bigger endeavor than one may initially think. We'd have to be very careful and thoughtful in our approach, assuming we would even think that this is a proper way to go. This is years worth of work. I mean, the Stardew Valley guy did that by himself, but he also spent years working on it full-time, so a very different situation than any of us here.

I also don't want to discount a Aegis project, as that would allow everyone to join in, keep it as a hobby, etc.

I'm curious what others think on this topic.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 03:18:17 pm by Boo the Gentleman Caller »

Mauron

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Oi, Mauron! What do you say about coding on Godot via C# or its native script? (I swear, you better say the test-dummies will also be released on Linux, or else. OR ELSE!)

I'm checking out Godot now. Since I'm already familiar with C#, I'd prefer that over Godot's script unless there's a benefit to the native script.

I can release something on Linux if I have something to release.

Edit: That big stability warning would probably be a reason to learn Godot's script.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 04:19:56 pm by Mauron »

chrono.source

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I love that the community is starting to come together and share ideas for a potential game incarnation.

From what I've seen (albeit very little), ROM hacking is a bit more tedious than using programs built to build RPGs (ie RPG Maker). Having used this platform myself, it took me 4 years (working avg 4-6hrs/day) almost daily to achieve my finished product.

This will take time. I think it is safest to say the foundation of the project might be safest handled by people with a history of maintaining long-term projects. Begin with any remaining members from CE's creation and branch out from there.


I would definitely suggest reaching out to some of the artists on sites like DeviantArt. Some of their work is amazing, and completely self-driven. I am sure there would be at least a handful of them willing to do some creative work on this collaborative project.... assuming they are also not overcome with time-restrictive responsibilities.

How would everything begin? Would we come up with a viable idea, and create a basic blueprint, THEN recruit based on our needs, or find a multitude of volunteers first and assign jobs to all those available-creating the blueprint from there?


I do think a kickstarter would be the way to go. A minimally viable product would need to be produced and those would would work on it would have to do so for free. We'd also need both a business plan and a project plan to


The idea of crowdfunding to create this has both its pros and cons. It does seem the simplest way to gather the funds needed for certain aspects, but unless it is a strictly "inspired by" game and no actual Chrono-content, this would create a lot of unnecessary public attention to certain people. *ahem* Squeenix *ahem*.

Do we really need another C&D circling around?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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The idea of crowdfunding to create this has both its pros and cons. It does seem the simplest way to gather the funds needed for certain aspects, but unless it is a strictly "inspired by" game and no actual Chrono-content, this would create a lot of unnecessary public attention to certain people. *ahem* Squeenix *ahem*.

Sorry for any confusion; my thought here was that anything that had any monetary value - including crowdfunding - would not be related to the Chrono IP and instead be more of an "inspired by" type of game.

tushantin

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In either case, I highly recommend those interested in organizing and leading said projects better have a Game Design Document ready, considering as fewer resources and effort as possible. That way, those you're recruiting will have a blue-print ready, so you can quantify tasks and get shit done without having any effort be wasted beyond MVP testing.

I intend to do that with a couple of my own games, just in case I have to learn how to code or have the ability to hire somebody else in the future (right now I can't even hire myself).



Edit: That big stability warning would probably be a reason to learn Godot's script.

It'll gain stability eventually, because the C# feature is pretty recent. But let us know if ever feel like you've gotten the hang of the engine or what sort of possibilities you see for it!

Nangbaby

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I voted for the unpopular RPG Maker option.

Hacks are wonderful ways to make fan games, but Chrono Trigger is limited in how it can be hacked at this time. As wonderful as the existing tools are...they aren't exactly easy for a novice to work with. There needs to be a way to bring in people who have ideas but who faint at seeing raw hexadecimal. Hacks also limit fan games to the relative constraints of the original game.

A Chrono Cross hack would be even more difficult and divisive, given how much of the remaining Chrono fanbase holds mixed opinions of the game.

The only way to make a fan continuance is to make something that fans can recreate. RPG Maker is the best option of the four presented.

As far as the whole "make a new IP with the same gameplay" plan, that's not a bad idea, but it you want to make a lasting fan legacy, in my opinion a Chrono Engine, one designed to not only mimic the existing Chrono Trigger game but to expand on it, would be the best idea. People could then make their own fan games, tweak the engine if possible, then move from there

We also lack actual doers -- coders who can put the game together. We've seen a dozen projects fall because everyone wants to be an idea man but no one wants to really get their hands dirty with coding and assembly (and I blame myself for being guilty of this at times).

It is true the community lacks doers, but that's more of a lack of skill, not necessarily a lack of willingness to do the work. I'm not a coder and even though I have an idea for a very simple task and conceptually know what needs to be done, I am aware if I were to dedicate all of my free time to it, it would take months. Therefore it would not be an efficient use of my time to work on a tiny project, especially when it would take people days at worst.

Besides, unless you go the hacking route there isn't any need for assembly. (Bad joke, I know.).

CptOvaltine

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I'm obviously jumping the gun here, and possibly reviving a dead conversation...but I would absolutely be interested in scoring any game inspired by the Chrono series. Obviously the immediate need is for coders and the like, and I'm pretty useless there...but if/when the time comes, I would happily throw my hat into the ring.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 10:09:48 pm by CptOvaltine »

Mauron

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Hacks are wonderful ways to make fan games, but Chrono Trigger is limited in how it can be hacked at this time. As wonderful as the existing tools are...they aren't exactly easy for a novice to work with. There needs to be a way to bring in people who have ideas but who faint at seeing raw hexadecimal. Hacks also limit fan games to the relative constraints of the original game.

Do you have any thoughts on what can be improved in the hacking tools?

chrono.source

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I voted for the unpopular RPG Maker option.

Hacks are wonderful ways to make fan games, but Chrono Trigger is limited in how it can be hacked at this time. As wonderful as the existing tools are...they aren't exactly easy for a novice to work with. There needs to be a way to bring in people who have ideas but who faint at seeing raw hexadecimal. Hacks also limit fan games to the relative constraints of the original game.

A Chrono Cross hack would be even more difficult and divisive, given how much of the remaining Chrono fanbase holds mixed opinions of the game.

The only way to make a fan continuance is to make something that fans can recreate. RPG Maker is the best option of the four presented.

As far as the whole "make a new IP with the same gameplay" plan, that's not a bad idea, but it you want to make a lasting fan legacy, in my opinion a Chrono Engine, one designed to not only mimic the existing Chrono Trigger game but to expand on it, would be the best idea. People could then make their own fan games, tweak the engine if possible, then move from there

We also lack actual doers -- coders who can put the game together. We've seen a dozen projects fall because everyone wants to be an idea man but no one wants to really get their hands dirty with coding and assembly (and I blame myself for being guilty of this at times).

It is true the community lacks doers, but that's more of a lack of skill, not necessarily a lack of willingness to do the work. I'm not a coder and even though I have an idea for a very simple task and conceptually know what needs to be done, I am aware if I were to dedicate all of my free time to it, it would take months. Therefore it would not be an efficient use of my time to work on a tiny project, especially when it would take people days at worst.

Besides, unless you go the hacking route there isn't any need for assembly. (Bad joke, I know.).

I have done the leg work in uploading a large amount of sprites/maps into RPG Maker XP if it is ever needed for a future RM fan job.

kaionaziozeno

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What I really want to see is a much bigger then options.

I don't know how we can avoid the IPs of Chrono Series, but if squenix don't want to make a sequel, the community can do. But will be THE sequel.

I don't know if it is really possible, but we could start a reverse Shemue-way: we do the crowdfunding and tell squenix that the production budget is there. If they don't care like they always do, we can start our own production.

Like Midgard Studios do with the Edge of Eternity, calling Mitsuda to OST, we could invite Kato (who always wanted finish the plot) to write the plot, and get a paid team to develop the game.
I don't know if it is enought, but we could change all names and visuals, doing only the reference to the characters of Trigger and Cross who will be in the plot. But the plot will be there.

It's a big huge crazy idea, and also option 2 can sound generic, but like the subject said "what I like to see"...



kaionaziozeno

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Actualy, I've change my mind: what I really want to see is a full fan game made by Owlboy's dev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3SU5dDBwCI