Author Topic: Lavos and the Time Gates  (Read 1318 times)

ThatGuy

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Lavos and the Time Gates
« on: December 16, 2017, 03:19:55 am »
So it just occurred to me that almost every time gate in CT seems to be closely correlated with Lavos in some way. Of course, good story plotting would require this, but great story plotting would also include an explanation for this potential "coincidence."

So, 65mil BC is Lavos's arrival. Kind of a big deal for the creature. 12000BC saw Zeal, who knew of Lavos, messed with him, enough to actually wake him. 600AD is when Magus summoned him, and I'll skip to 2300 AD, when his spawn are growing up.

If you go with my theory that Lavos time travels when he goes to new planets, the time gates in 65milBC and 2300BC are especially accounted for. Otherwise, whenever he's summoned in some way, it seems like, again, time gates show up.

Except for 1000AD. That's the only place where he didn't do anything significant and we see time gates. But we have the telepod, and we have the pendant. Which is why I still like my theory that Schala was the entity behind the time gates. Considering that she merged with Lavos and so on, it makes sense that she could have opened them in order to send Crono and co. on their quest to stop Lavos.

The ooooonly one that stands out is the Medina village gate. It connects to 2300AD, which is fine on that end, but why Medina village? If anyone can help me out with a decent explanation for that one (left over from Magus's castle, perhaps?), I might have a solid plot thread for my CT sequel I'll probably never get around to writing. In fact, as I write this out, left over from that giant portal that Magus caused is actually a good enough explanation for me...

Okay, so what do you all think? Lavos's influence (since he's a time traveler) caused ruptures in space-time that allowed time gates to be opened. And maybe it was Schala who opened them via the interaction of the telepod and her pendant. I like how that works out.

Aw, shit, what about that stupid plot-convenient gate in Guardia forest though? ... Shit. I'm just going with Schala/telepod/pendant again.

Metalraptor

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Re: Lavos and the Time Gates
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 04:54:37 am »
First let me say that I agree that Schala is most likely the entity.
I feel that she is observing the progress of Crono's party, and opening the gates at appropriate time zones and locations, as a means to help them advance.
However, there are unknown complications with when and where she places them, surely if Schala is behind this, then we can assume that she also knows of the different branches in time that are also being erased, which is where Chrono Cross comes in.  While Crono's party saved the world from Lavos in Chrono Trigger, there were certain consequences in their actions, as they also destroyed hundreds more in the process, and karma got the better of them in the end.
We also see this in the ending of Chrono Cross, Schala/Kid, does not end up living with Serge in the end of the story, we're only shown that it's possible she may have reincarnated in a different time where the two could meet.  But if Schala messed with the flow of time, then she was just as guilty as Crono's party, and had to pay for it in her own lifetime.
Simply put, if Schala were responsible for the gates, then she most likely had to choose a time and a place that changed as little as possible.
It's also possible that Schala had her own reasons for picking those places, the entity clearly wanted Crono's party to see the devastation Lavos would cause in the future, and what humanity would have been reduced to.
The fact that the gate in Guardia forest is plot convenient, is in itself the evidence of intelligent design.  In fact, if a gate were placed anywhere else in the castle at that time, it wouldn't have been of any positive use, as Crono didn't carry the pendent with him, so he couldn't escape from the jail through a portal, likewise Marle wouldn't have been in the party if the portal showed up right after Lucca joins him in the escape.
Someone was observing their progression, and chose the right moment, if it happened any sooner, then the party wouldn't have made the jump together, where if it were any later, then the party would have been apprehended by the soldiers.
Which brings us to the gate behind the door in the future scenario, which the party knew about for a long time before they could enter the door.
Someone wanted them spend some time in that time zone, to see what had happened, they also wanted Robo to join the party, because he would play an important part in the progression of things.
As for the gate in Medina village, it's possible that the entity just wanted to provide them with an easier means of transportation, perhaps they wanted the party to change history so the mystics (who are possibly the descendants of the surviving Ocean Palace mutants) could live in harmony with humans, and the party seeing what was going on in Medina might have influenced them to take action.  It also provided them with a quick and easy alternate route to Melchior.
But considering how karma affected Crono, Marle and Lucca, what also happened to Ayla, Glen and Magus?  Where Robo's existence was already in danger, simply do to the alterations made to the time lines.
Now, regarding Lavos, I don't think that he would go out of his way to enable his own end, some of the gates, like the one after Lavos crashes into the Tyranno Lair, or possibly the one that opens when Magus tries to summon Lavos, or the one in Medina village, could simply be distortions caused by the surrounding tension of the situations, and Crono's party might also be causing tears in time and space do to their altering history.
That is at least how I see it. :)

ThatGuy

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Re: Lavos and the Time Gates
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 12:46:25 pm »
First, I like the idea of Mystics being the descendants of the Ocean Palace/Zeal "other" creatures. (Like Masa, Mune, and Dorina, too!)

Now, here's the thing. You're assuming that Schala had some kind of ultimate control over these gates and placed them where she did. It's entirely possible that she had limited options. And limited (though supernatural) knowledge.

The way I first imagined this, Schala didn't really have an "in" from wherever she existed after the Ocean Palace. Then Marle's pendant came close to the telepod (which teleports, like gates, makes so much sense!) and she was able to exert just enough influence to open a time gate there. And she did so, maybe not knowing, but hoping, that it would lead to the party doing what it did. Maybe all she ever did was see a chance and decide to take it.

Now, concerning Lavos opening gates that caused its own demise... of course not. But the theory could go that Lavos didn't intentionally open them. It just happens. The same way radioactive material irradiates things around it, it's like a side effect.

But! I much more like the idea that Schala opened them. And if we combine the two theories, once she gained a foothold into time-gate-opening via Marle's pendant in proximity with the telepod... she was able to open more- but only in certain times/places.

So to review: Schala's stuck merged with Lavos or wherever... senses Marle's pendant, sees an opportunity with her somewhat clairvoyant knowledge, and opens that gate to 600AD. She also opens gates that she can, Guardia forest being relatively close in proximity, 65milBC having been strongly correlated with Lavos (with whom she's merged or whatever), and so on. But then, some could have already existed that Schala simply took advantage of. Since gates are just two sides to a "worm hole" type path, maybe she simply connected the one side that Belthasar went through to Guardia forest. Maybe she didn't open the one where Lavos landed at the Tyranno Lair at all. Who can say for sure? And why does she have to be responsible for every single one? (More on that in a moment.)

And, regarding the Medina gate... Well that one was opened during the first Ocean Palace incident, so Lavos was more directly responsible for it. Maybe Schala didn't open that one at all.

In Japanese plot-telling style, if Square went with this, they probably would make Schala responsible for EVERYTHING because they just love the great big mastermind behind it all that is revealed in some giant-ass ridiculously unlikely plot twist. I swear, they're always playing Wizard of Oz.

However, I like the idea of Schala struggling, trying to help things along despite other forces in play (other gates she didn't open, limited ability of when/where to open them, limited knowledge as to what the actual timeline changes would be, etc.), and managing to succeed in changing the timeline. Now THAT'S a good story.

Reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jnT3lZ11ig

Skip to 2:10. The Asian guy (name?) asks "did you always know?"

And Oracle says "oh no, but I believed." That's what Schala did. And like the Architect said at 0:40... "you played a very dangerous game."

But it was worth it.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:55:41 pm by ThatGuy »