Author Topic: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory  (Read 1284 times)

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2018, 11:06:59 am »
Oy vey. I missed this the first time around.

This kind of stuff is just frustrating. It just sours the experience for everyone. The fact that there was a flurry of back-to-back responses clearly shows a disregard for any normal decency.

I could say more, but I'll stop there.

I do hope that he stuck around and can have a more positive experience without such issues in the future.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2018, 01:10:11 pm »
If I can give my own insight on the matter, this is all assuming there was a battle at Zenan Bridge during the original timeline.

Remember, NPC's state during the time Queen Leene was kidnapped that Magus's army destroyed the bridge. Unless there was some unheard plans of staging a naval assault, that's quite counterproductive to cut-off access to Guardia if you plan to finish it off. So then why destroy the bridge and stage an assault after its repaired instead of just plan the assault in the first place?

My guess? The Mystics/Fiends were riled up since people had all begun talking about the Hero. If you consider that timeline changes due to Crono, Lucca, and Marle's first visit to 600AD made it possible for Tata to aquire the Hero's Medal, and this becoming well spread news, then it would also made an impact among the Mystics/Fiends. Perhaps in the original timeline, with Frog keeping the Hero's Medal and thus no one making a fuzz about a Hero, then the Mystics/Fiends weren't as eager, and figured Magus would just take care of things with whattever he's doing at this castle.

But with the Hero, the Mystics/Fiends now think that perhaps the humans can now do something, and perhaps Magus may not have the time. So perhaps they think it might be best to just crush the humans right there and then. Thus, the assault on Zenan Bridge in the changed timeline.

That's my theory, at least.

Kodokami

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2018, 01:39:18 pm »
I never removed him, just that one post of his. He's welcome to come back so long as he keeps discussions civilized. There was no need to blow up over something as simple as video game theories.

Acacia Sgt, that's a pretty good theory. Frog wouldn't have been as vocal about the Hero's Medal in the original timeline as Tata is from the player's point of view, so I can definitely imagine word of it traveling and alerting the Mystics and possibly putting them on edge.

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2018, 03:03:14 pm »
Yeah I forgot about this thread. LOL I remember reading his posts wondering what the hell his problem was. There's no reason to be like that, EVER.

That being said, I also like your theory Acacia Sgt. I think that's the best theory on it so far!

Razig

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2018, 07:36:09 pm »
In both the original and the new timelines, Queen Leene was kidnapped on Frog's watch. So I think he would have gone into self-exile either way. Whether Tata subsequently found the Hero's Medal or not is anyone's guess...

• If so, events at the bridge would have probably played out much the same way Crono saw them: the knights lost a bunch of men protecting Tata, which severely weakened their position and allowed the King to be wounded, which was a further blow to the troops' morale.

• If not, the knights probably held their own. Not only did they not lose all those men, the King's continued presence would have kept morale high. Also, with the King remaining in the field, the Chef's attention wasn't divided and he could have kept the troops supplied.


But whether he was successful or not, maybe Ozzie's orders weren't to invade Guardia? Maybe he was simply sent to destroy the bridge again, to keep Guardia from interfering with Magus's plans to summon Lavos.

If that's true, Guardia wasn't actually in danger even if the knights failed to hold the bridge, since Magus had no further need for the war at that point. He was just buying himself some breathing room.

Note that San Dorino was left completely unharmed, despite lying directly in Ozzie's path. Ozzie would have been on board with this delaying plan, since he thought Lavos was to be some kind of superweapon to use against Guardia and there would be no need to put his men in any more danger with a direct invasion.

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 07:56:18 pm »
But there is a line in the game (a kid at the Millennial Fair) that says: "There was a big war hundreds of years ago against the Fiendlord's armies. My mom said if we'd lost, we wouldn't be having a fair like this today!"

So to me that says that Magus did try to destroy Guardia. Thoughts?

Razig

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 08:13:06 pm »
That's the assumption the humans make, but they don't know the whole truth about the war. It's never spelled out exactly how the war benefited him, but it was clearly just a part of Magus's plan for revenge against Lavos, which was doomed to fail regardless.

Ozzie would have definitely wiped out Guardia if it were up to him, but he deferred to Magus. Magus didn't really care either way, but told Ozzie what he wanted to hear in order to gain his support.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 08:32:19 pm by Razig »

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2018, 08:44:57 pm »
Hmmmmm.... I never thought of it that way!!

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2018, 09:42:12 pm »
But whether he was successful or not, maybe Ozzie's orders weren't to invade Guardia? Maybe he was simply sent to destroy the bridge again, to keep Guardia from interfering with Magus's plans to summon Lavos.

If that's true, Guardia wasn't actually in danger even if the knights failed to hold the bridge, since Magus had no further need for the war at that point. He was just buying himself some breathing room.

Considering the way to Magus's Castle is sealed in a way only the Masamune can brute force open it (since I'd think the Mystics can do it just fine; unless there are ships and naval engagements and stuff we just never hear of), I doubt they'd destroy the bridge again if it was to avoid Guardia from interfering. Unless it was to keep the Hero stranded in North Zenan so he can't go and pick up the Masamune, but that brings back to my thought the attack only happened because of the Hero.

Note that San Dorino was left completely unharmed, despite lying directly in Ozzie's path. Ozzie would have been on board with this delaying plan, since he thought Lavos was to be some kind of superweapon to use against Guardia and there would be no need to put his men in any more danger with a direct invasion.

It's posible San Dorino was not a high priority target, if the goal was Guardia. Guardia is the biggest threat, so why bother with San Dorino? The same could be said for Porre, or Choras. Guardia always seemed to be the Mystic's first priority, since it was the strongest human nation/settlement/group.

It's possible that whatever troops San Dorino had were already dealt with. I think dialogue states Guardia was beaten "in the front-lines" before retreating to the bridge. At least, the Retranslation has that, don't know if the DS script mentions it. So depende was that, it might've removed San Dorino as a threat, and thus, its destruction can be saved for later, when all other threats are done with.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 09:51:42 pm by Acacia Sgt »

Razig

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2018, 11:28:07 pm »
Considering the way to Magus's Castle is sealed in a way only the Masamune can brute force open it (since I'd think the Mystics can do it just fine; unless there are ships and naval engagements and stuff we just never hear of), I doubt they'd destroy the bridge again if it was to avoid Guardia from interfering. Unless it was to keep the Hero stranded in North Zenan so he can't go and pick up the Masamune, but that brings back to my thought the attack only happened because of the Hero.

We don't know that the Masamune is the only way in. It doesn't prove anything, but consider that there's a dead human inside the Magic Cave. It's likely he was simply an escapee from Magus's dungeons and entered the cave from the unwalled side, but it's also possible he was a spy and figured out how to open the wall.

Besides, even without the Masamune or knowing the Mystics' secret method, what's to stop an army of soldiers from just beating the wall down with mining picks? Or tunneling around it, if the wall itself is magically impervious. Although I suspect Guardia simply didn't know about the Magic Cave (despite a couple of NPCs mentioning it), otherwise they would have sealed it up or left it guarded.

Regardless, just leaving it to chance that Guardia won't find a way through doesn't seem like Magus's style to me.

It's posible San Dorino was not a high priority target, if the goal was Guardia. Guardia is the biggest threat, so why bother with San Dorino? The same could be said for Porre, or Choras. Guardia always seemed to be the Mystic's first priority, since it was the strongest human nation/settlement/group.

It's possible that whatever troops San Dorino had were already dealt with. I think dialogue states Guardia was beaten "in the front-lines" before retreating to the bridge. At least, the Retranslation has that, don't know if the DS script mentions it. So depende was that, it might've removed San Dorino as a threat, and thus, its destruction can be saved for later, when all other threats are done with.

Why not bother with a defenseless town (whether you've already beaten its defenders, or there were none to begin with), if it's right in your path and your goal is extermination? Porre and Choras were out of the way, but Ozzie could have easily torched San Dorino as he passed by. To me it seems like he avoided the place on purpose, not because it was too much trouble to deal with, but because he trusted that Lavos would mop up later.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 09:08:48 pm by Razig »

ThatGuy

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2018, 08:37:53 pm »
Woooow, I missed some shit, didn't I?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Alternate Zenan Bridge Defense Theory
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2018, 11:33:36 pm »
Quote
Woooow, I missed some shit, didn't I?

I laughed out loud reading this.