Author Topic: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever  (Read 2096 times)

Beach Bum

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General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« on: January 06, 2017, 03:59:06 pm »
So let's sum this up...

- A mysterious guest arrives (from Porre? Don't remember) aka Lynx and approaches the general about the Frozen Flame
- The general buys into this, which is odd as the Acacia Dragoons seemed very content with the territory they held and not out for conquest at all
- Word arrives that Porre is planning an invasion of El Nido
- The general follows Lynx to Fort Dragonia along with the bulk of his military power
- Gets nearly murdered

Why did Viper go to Fort Dragonia with Lynx? If you hear word that an enemy nation is about to invade, what sense is there in moving to an abandoned fort somewhere in a closed off mountain range?

Also, as Serge enters the ritual room of Fort Dragonia, Lynx says they'd been waiting for him. What could Lynx have possibly told Viper to convince him they need to wait for Serge? And for that matter, why did Viper not question Lynx when he allegedly sent the Dragoons to capture Serge? And then when Serge confronts Lynx and Viper for the first time, Lynx babbles about how the end of the human world is nigh and other vague shit. Why would Viper trust this guy???

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 06:28:35 pm »
The idea behind moving to Fort Dragonia was that it was a better place to defend against Porre than the Manor. It's likely the plan was to lure them in, or that Porre on its own would prioritize  going after them first and then go after Termina/Guldove/etc. Of course, thanks to Serge, Porre couldn't even take the bait even if they wanted.

Lynx told Viper about the Frozen Flame. It's possible, as Radius especulates, that the General may want to use it to stop Porre's invasion or rule the world himself. Regardless for what, now that he knows about it, Viper wants it, and thus is willing to hear Lynx out. So it's likely Lynx mentioned Serge was the only one who could open up the way, but without giving exact details on the why, most likely. If he ever questioned it, most likely it was offscreen, and briefly.

Yeah, no clue about Lynx's speech in Viper Manor and Viper just rolling with it, though.

utunnels

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 11:26:53 am »
Some subtle or not subtle mind control magic?
You know, he's Fate, after all.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:28:43 am by utunnels »

Beach Bum

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 02:02:38 pm »
Could FATE mind control people? Why didn't he then mind control Serge during the Viper Manor sequence? The Dragon Tear was right there on old Viper's desk all set up and ready to go. Serge jumping from the balcony didn't seem to be part of his plan, as it forced him to move to Fort Dragonia to once again lure Serge in.

utunnels

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 08:10:21 pm »
Well, at least Lynx/Dark Serge controlled Kid to some extent. And records of Fate are known to provide advice and hints to the El Nido folks, maybe they also affect them via subconscious level(not direct control)? I'm not good at theories so it is just a guess. Maybe Lynx poisoned Viper's mind, and the Devas didn't seem to be the smart type and did not question his orders.

But I think you are right, the details of Lynx and Viper are lacking.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 08:13:07 pm by utunnels »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 03:34:52 am »
Could FATE mind control people? Why didn't he then mind control Serge during the Viper Manor sequence? The Dragon Tear was right there on old Viper's desk all set up and ready to go. Serge jumping from the balcony didn't seem to be part of his plan, as it forced him to move to Fort Dragonia to once again lure Serge in.

If I remember right, the Dragon Tear can only be used in Fort Dragonia.

Beach Bum

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2017, 07:53:28 am »
Could FATE mind control people? Why didn't he then mind control Serge during the Viper Manor sequence? The Dragon Tear was right there on old Viper's desk all set up and ready to go. Serge jumping from the balcony didn't seem to be part of his plan, as it forced him to move to Fort Dragonia to once again lure Serge in.

If I remember right, the Dragon Tear can only be used in Fort Dragonia.

Really? I always thought the original plan was to do the body switch at Viper Manor

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2017, 11:21:53 am »

Really? I always thought the original plan was to do the body switch at Viper Manor

No, it never was.

Dialogue states that the Dragon Tear needs to be in the "Room of Rituals" of Fort Dragonia for that kind of stuff.

Beach Bum

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2017, 12:31:20 pm »

Really? I always thought the original plan was to do the body switch at Viper Manor

No, it never was.

Dialogue states that the Dragon Tear needs to be in the "Room of Rituals" of Fort Dragonia for that kind of stuff.

Interesting. I guess it makes sense since his original objective was to capture him through Karsh, and then I guess he would have dragged him to Fort Dragonia.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 08:40:46 pm »
Although, I would wonder...

Did Lynx's plan was to really capture him at the first chance? I kinda have the feeling Lynx's plan actually relied in provoking Serge's curiosity. Have him come to the Manor on his own. Have him go to Fort Dragonia on his own.

Maybe it's just me, but perhaps that was Lynx's plan all along.

Beach Bum

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 12:32:30 pm »
Although, I would wonder...

Did Lynx's plan was to really capture him at the first chance? I kinda have the feeling Lynx's plan actually relied in provoking Serge's curiosity. Have him come to the Manor on his own. Have him go to Fort Dragonia on his own.

Maybe it's just me, but perhaps that was Lynx's plan all along.

I don't think he expected Serge to be dumb enough to come on his own accord at first. But then Serge showed up at the manor and from there it was all pretty easy.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 08:56:13 pm »

I don't think he expected Serge to be dumb enough to come on his own accord at first. But then Serge showed up at the manor and from there it was all pretty easy.

Maybe not dumb. Perhaps the plan really was to capture him there at Cape Howl, but with Karsh just saying enough as a contingency in case Serge avoided capture.

But consider this. Wouldn't it be expected for a person findind itself in the position Serge was to be curious about what the heck happened? So I don't think Lynx wasn't considering to exploit that since the beginning. But true, it's likely he didn't minded alternatives, since Karsh didn't seem to be ordered to avoid provoking a fight (though to be fair, Kid was more guilty on that one).

Hmm, it's a shame we don't really get to know what's on Serge's mind. To know at least what he was thinking at the time before Kid disrupted the scene.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 08:57:59 pm by Acacia Sgt »

Kodokami

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 10:01:49 pm »
Forget Viper, what the heck was Lynx thinking? His goal was to return to Chronopolis and reactive the Flame, right? And he needed Serge's body--or just Serge himself--to regain access. And FATE predicted to within a day of when Serge would cross dimensions. And so, despite knowing almost exactly when and where Serge would be, his grand conclusion ... was to send Karsh and his lackeys? People he didn't even have full control over?

What was stopping Lynx from just, I dunno, chilling at Opassa Beach waiting for Serge to show up and then being all like,
Quote
"Hey, you're finally here! Congratulations! Sorry dude, I know this is confusing for you, but I need you to take a trip with me across the ocean so I can use your DNA to open a sealed door that imprinted on you when you were a baby, because behind that door is an infinite power source from the 25th century that I need to maintain the natural balance of the world! Haha, doesn't that sound fun? C'mon, we'll make a vacation out of it. I've been waiting 10 years already, so I'm in no hurry apparently. And don't worry that I look like something from your worst nightmares, I lost a bet with Miguel a long time ago and he thought it'd be funny. I killed him by the way, don't tell your girlfriend.

"OH, and silly me, did I mention? I'm actually you're long-lost father! No hard feelings about trying to drown you ages ago, right? Right? Ahaha, that's my boy! I'll make it up to you with some churros later."

I mean, the more I think about it--Viper, Lynx, all of it--the less any of it makes sense. And I know that Lynx (FATE? Both of them?) had his own aspirations with the Flame that are never fully explain either. It's all so confusing. :roll:

Acacia Sgt

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2017, 10:31:04 pm »
We can probably chalk that to the ObligatoryIncompetenceTM villains need to have in a work of fiction so the heroes can actually be heroes.

Not much of a game if Lynx were just waiting in Opassa Beach. No, he had to rope the Dragoons into an overly-complicated scheme, increasing the chances of his defeat.

EgyLynx

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Re: General Viper is probably the worst military leader ever
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 02:47:53 pm »
Oh no :( . At that even these humaneagles are will be hard, that mister then...

What is Lynx´s past? why it look Humynx?