Author Topic: What makes someone an Innate?  (Read 15952 times)

ZeaLitY

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2006, 06:59:59 pm »
Right; the only thing Cross says is that "Chronopolis, which pioneered the system of Elements" (to that effect). The Dragon God pre-Time Crash is referenced as a single plasma lifeform capable of controlling nature. At the most basic level, this makes it sound like Chronopolis made the six colors. We can never know for sure.

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2006, 03:09:30 am »
But when you look at the Chrono Cross, and realise that Chronopolis never had it, could create it or know about it, then the 6 elements obviously existed. It wouldn't be the "lost 7th element" if another 6 didn't exist.
The CC wouldn't work if there weren't 6 elements that it could play their melodies. And so thats like saying that if Chronopolis did not pioneer the elements (by the way, the dragonians were stated to have manufactured elements from power spots), then the CC wouldn't exist and neither would any element, and the CC wouldn't work.

Chrono'99

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2006, 10:06:52 am »
It wouldn't be the "lost 7th element" if another 6 didn't exist.
Wow, of course it wouldn't be the 7th Element. If there were like 9 Elements, it would be the lost 10th element. If there were 41, it would be the 42th...

The pre-Time Crash Dragonians were stated to "control the powers of nature" by using the Dragon God. The post-Time Crash Dragonians are stated to use the power spots of El Nido to "generate Elements". Oh and guess what, those power spots were created by FATE in the first place...

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2006, 06:44:58 pm »
How can FATE create power spots when power spots are places on the planet where it's energy leaked out? More like FATE harnessed them and produced the elements. But i'd ask why it would hand them out to the El Nido residence..

Anyway, the CC follows the flow of the 6 great elemental melodies. Hence, 6 elements existed already.

AuraTwilight

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2006, 09:59:10 pm »
FATE made El Nido. Thus FATE made the Power Spots of El Nido. Duh.

Bauglir

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2006, 08:10:18 pm »
I'd say that the Chrono Cross pre-Colors would've just been the ability to use the force of nature for some goal the user had in mind. In CC, that goal was releasing Schala and could only be used for that (aside from regenerating all elements including itself, which was pretty nifty) due to gameplay reasons. The melody wasn't the result of the six elements, the melody was the result of the presence of the Chrono Cross and the planet's "music" was what awakened Schala and allowed her to break free of the Time Devourer. That make any sense?

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2006, 04:10:41 am »
Steena:

   As you may well know, the
   natural world is composed of
   a balance of the 6 Elements
.
   These Elements are...
   White, black, red, blue,
   green, and yellow.
   Each one pairs up with another
   to maintain the balance which
   the natural world relies upon.

Direa:
   The gods that represent
   each Element are called the
   '"Dragon Gods
."'
   Since they symbolize the
   powers of nature
, they are
   also commonly referred to
   as the '"Gods of Nature."'

  If the sun is white,
   the shadow is black...
   The flame red and
   the water blue...
   Green are the leaves of the
   forest and the blowing winds.
   Yellow are the forces of
   mother earth.

Direa:
   Yes, it was a time when dragon
   worship was still common...
   Humans and demi-humans lived
   together in the same community.
   It must be a little hard to
   imagine today, but it is true...
   The planet's power collects
   at certain points on the
   main island.


Direa:
  One such point is the
   place we call the
   '"Divine Dragon Falls."
'
   But its name has been
   all but forgotten on
   the main island.
   Our tribe and the
   demi-humans are the
   only ones that know
   this name.

Steena:
   It is a sacred land that is
   dedicated to the worship of
   the sleeping Dragon Gods...
   For you to have accidently
   found this holy ground,
   means the planet might
   have guided you there
...

Quote clearly, it's evident here that the power spots were not made, Aura. They were always there. The Dragon Gods represent each of the 6 elements, as the plasma being was the sum of all of them.

The Chrono Cross, by the way, when combined with the 6 melodies of the planet, has the power to transfer minds, unite them (and things) and heal.

Bauglir

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2006, 09:54:22 am »
For one thing, both Steena and Direa are adherents of a religion based on the Dragon Gods as separate entities, and it is therefore just as likely that their dogma states that the Dragons were always separate and controlling their colors. As for power points, it's also evident that they had to come into existence after the islands did. That means that FATE had at least something to do with their creation. Plus, if FATE is capable of terraforming on that level, it should be no problem to weaken the planet in such a way that power leaks out (assuming an FF7-esque power source with an actual geographic location), or (assuming an ethereally located power source) since it was able to use the Flame to partition the Dragons, it should be equally possible for FATE to use the Flame to concentrate and direct the planet's energy.

EDIT: It's possible that the power spots existed at the bottom of the ocean pre-terraforming, but I find it doubtful. They couldn't have existed anywhere before Dinopolis was sent back in time, as neither they nor Elements seemed to exist in CT, and they certainly would have drawn attention. They may have come into existence spontaneously when the Dragon God suddenly existed in that timeline, which is entirely possible, but would require a massive coincidence if for more than one to exist above water in the Archipelago, and they are definitely referred to in the plural (Most of the map area in CC is water, and power spots would have appeared worldwide AND would almost be fairly rare, or else it would be places lacking power that would be interesting). And after the war, which I presume to have been a pretty quick affair from the events in the game (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the islands were created and the remaining Dragonians migrated, at which point they began using power spots to create Elements, after the Dragon God had been divided by the Flame.

I just sorta realized all that just a few moments ago, so yeah, that's why it's an edit. It really is supposed to be part of the same idea, so it goes in the same post.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 10:44:42 pm by Bauglir »

AuraTwilight

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2006, 06:22:46 pm »
Quote
Quote clearly, it's evident here that the power spots were not made, Aura. They were always there. The Dragon Gods represent each of the 6 elements, as the plasma being was the sum of all of them.

The Chrono Cross, by the way, when combined with the 6 melodies of the planet, has the power to transfer minds, unite them (and things) and heal.

None of that says that the Power Points were ALWAYS there, though, and we know that Divine Dragon Falls and El Nido were manmade. Thus, so were those particular Power Spots. That doesn't mean there can't be Power Spots that didn't form naturally on other parts of the planet though.

Quote
For one thing, both Steena and Direa are adherents of a religion based on the Dragon Gods as separate entities, and it is therefore just as likely that their dogma states that the Dragons were always separate and controlling their colors. As for power points, it's also evident that they had to come into existence after the islands did. That means that FATE had at least something to do with their creation. Plus, if FATE is capable of terraforming on that level, it should be no problem to weaken the planet in such a way that power leaks out (assuming an FF7-esque power source with an actual geographic location), or (assuming an ethereally located power source) since it was able to use the Flame to partition the Dragons, it should be equally possible for FATE to use the Flame to concentrate and direct the planet's energy.

PWNED.

Chrono'99

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2006, 11:08:20 am »
Mmh, actually now I think I was really wrong about the colors being created by FATE. In Terra Tower, there's a room with the "Dragon Emblem" on the floor, and 6 colored dots on it. Since Terra Tower existed before FATE assumed control of El Nido, and directly comes from the Dragonian dimension, this kind of proves that the colors weren't arbitrary chosen by FATE, but arbitrary chosen by the Dragon God instead. (Yes, I still say "arbitrary", because the only real, universal elements are the ones that Spekkio listed.)

Nothing to add about the power stops though.

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2006, 01:09:08 am »
It's not arbitrary. It was designed that way. They are the melodies, they are the colors. Heck, it's arbitrary to have an ice element in CT when it's pretty much the same as water.

Chrono'99

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2006, 06:23:57 am »
There's no ice element in CT.

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2006, 08:00:11 pm »
Then why are Marle and Frog different in their elements.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2006, 09:16:27 pm »
Then why are Marle and Frog different in their elements.

They are both Water innates. It's right there in the menu. They use different techniques, but this doesn't mean that they have different elements.

Zaperking

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Re: What makes someone an Innate?
« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2006, 01:18:35 am »
Ooops, my Bad. I just remembered that one used ice and the other used water.

I guess that just proves another point. CT's elements can appear in any form in relation. Water -> Ice -> Gas etc.