Author Topic: the articles  (Read 1852 times)

Luminaire

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« on: August 06, 2005, 04:48:45 pm »
I hate to sound like a lazy bum, because I really did try to read the colloraries and axiom article, but it was just too complicated for me to understand. Can anyone explain it to me, and how the timelines in ct work, in simpler terms than that article? I'd like to understand it better so I can contribute to the forum discussions more efficiently. Thanks.

kazmaka

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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2005, 04:53:14 pm »
hehe dont worry about it i barely understood that either  :roll: . what is time error?

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2005, 10:56:54 pm »
When it comes to explaining them to others, I think GrayLensman has the best grasp of the theories that the Compendium has by general consensus declared to be true and operative. However, I would not expect him or anyone else to explain practically the Compendium's entire speculative work. Instead you might try narrowing down your request a bit, perhaps even focusing on specific terms and individual theories. You may then go about gleaning a more comprehensible big picture of things.

Also keep in mind the words of yours truly, who as Compendium Antagonist would like it to be understood that these theories are conjectural, and often have little or no explicit canonical support. I for one would encourage individuals to make their own interpretations of the nuances of these exceptional games, rather than conform to prevailing Compendium opinion merely for the sake of conforming. Logical consistency in your interpretations is important, but beyond that...the purpose of all of this belongs to the realm of art, not science. Understanding the Compendium's prevailing opinions is merely understanding the ways in which others have interpreted the games. To understand the games themselves, you might be searching in the wrong way.

Luminaire

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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2005, 05:31:01 pm »
word, you're right. I was going to post a topic about that, saying pretty much the same thing. I mean, this site is a great site, I just recently fell upon it, but I mean, aren't the articles ALL just theory? Nothing has really been proven has there? I mean, I keep reading things like,   "the grandfather paradox doesn't exist in CT". Well that may hold true in some or even most aspects of the game, but certainly not in all of them. There are occasions throughout the game where it seems it would. I don't think that when masata kato (I think thats his name) and the rest of the ct team were devoloping the game took all the time to think, wait we cant do this because it violates a paradox, we can't do this because it contradicts a different event in the story; otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here speculating and throwing ideas around.
Don't get me wrong, I could sit here and do this all the time, talk about ct, the pros and cons of the plot, the faults and the holes, and every other detail about the game, but noone really knows for SURE do they? Isn't this all just personal opinion and belief?
I hope noone gets mad about this, because I could theorize all day with everyone as well and I plan to :)

kazmaka

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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2005, 07:37:56 am »
hehe i thought exactly the same luminaire, theres a chance that at least most of the theories people have thought of in here were just based off the makers not even thinking about it to the extent they have, but then you think that mean all this would be a waste of time, and its not worth thinking about, so you just ignore that.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2005, 10:04:08 am »
Quote from: kazmaka
hehe i thought exactly the same luminaire, theres a chance that at least most of the theories people have thought of in here were just based off the makers not even thinking about it to the extent they have, but then you think that mean all this would be a waste of time, and its not worth thinking about, so you just ignore that.

You are both right and wrong at the same time. You are right in that the game designers in no way analyzed their creations as thoroughly as the Compendium has. You are wrong in that this implies the Compendium's theoretical analysis is a waste of time. An artist's intentions do not define the artistry of his or her work. If onlookers are able to find meaning in the artist's work which the artist did not personally consider, it is inaccurate to presume that this perceived meaning is without value. Only if we narrow ourselves to being concerned with fully comprehending and appreciating the artist's will could we say that the Compendium's non-verifiable efforts are a waste. In the broader sense, the Compendium is an excellent place for any Chrono fan to spend some time.

But of course therein lies the peril that inspired my original post: We mustn't start mistaking the Compendium's analysis as representative of the game designers' will. Some of the efforts here are eminently reasonable, others questionable, but in very few cases are there definitive, canonical insights that are demonstrably true. I must admit that it is slightly a turnoff that the Compendium presumes an air of scientific righteousness in its discussions, without bothering to respect the methods of proper science. In all reality the theories conjured here as pertain to the Chrono series, itself a work of fiction, cannot be tested rigorously. This place really is in the domain of art, of interpretation...of personal enrichment.

In that spirit, as well as in the spirit of providing substance to the obsession of any proper Chrono admirer, the Compendium shines in the best possible light.

kazmaka

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2005, 10:40:33 am »
if anyone took what i said as to mean this work is all pointless and a waste of time i apologise for that is not what i meant, let me make my own example of what i meant

imagine a riddle, with no solution! no one knows there is no solution, so come up with many solutions that could fit the riddle, although none were intended by the make, all could be possible (well maybe not all). that mite not of cleared anything up but it might of, who knows.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2005, 11:49:01 am »
Quote from: Lord J esq
An artist's intentions do not define the artistry of his or her work. If onlookers are able to find meaning in the artist's work which the artist did not personally consider, it is inaccurate to presume that this perceived meaning is without value. Only if we narrow ourselves to being concerned with fully comprehending and appreciating the artist's will could we say that the Compendium's non-verifiable efforts are a waste. In the broader sense, the Compendium is an excellent place for any Chrono fan to spend some time.

But of course therein lies the peril that inspired my original post: We mustn't start mistaking the Compendium's analysis as representative of the game designers' will. Some of the efforts here are eminently reasonable, others questionable, but in very few cases are there definitive, canonical insights that are demonstrably true. I must admit that it is slightly a turnoff that the Compendium presumes an air of scientific righteousness in its discussions, without bothering to respect the methods of proper science. In all reality the theories conjured here as pertain to the Chrono series, itself a work of fiction, cannot be tested rigorously. This place really is in the domain of art, of interpretation...of personal enrichment.

In that spirit, as well as in the spirit of providing substance to the obsession of any proper Chrono admirer, the Compendium shines in the best possible light.


Regardless (or...irregardless?) of whatever has been or will be said in this or any thread: TRUE DAT!!!

Quote from: kazmaka
(all that stuff kazmaka says about a riddle)...that mite not of cleared anything up but it might of...


Uh...?...Nope!

kazmaka

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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 01:28:14 pm »
Well I tried, o well.

Kuroikaze

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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2005, 05:03:45 am »
Quote from: Luminaire
I hate to sound like a lazy bum, because I really did try to read the colloraries and axiom article, but it was just too complicated for me to understand. Can anyone explain it to me, and how the timelines in ct work, in simpler terms than that article? I'd like to understand it better so I can contribute to the forum discussions more efficiently. Thanks.


I think a safe way to describe the alteration of the future via time travel is best explained by the game series "Legacy of Kain".

They explain time as being a great river, and all actions of all people as pebbles dropped into the river. The course of the river can't be changed by pebbles. But, in some situations, there is an opportunity to drop great boulders. These boulders can't be used to divert the flow, but rather to shape it slowly into something new. LoK(Legacy of Kain) refers to world-shattering time-altering actions as a Fatal Paradox. In the event of ANY paradox, the river finds the path of least resistance within its bounds and takes it. With a fatal paradox, the boulder is too large, and time cant pass, so the obstacle (instigator of the paradox) is removed from existence.
Chrono Trigger allows for historical changes when chrono and co act upon these chances to drop large rocks into the river of time. they drop rock after rock and eventually change the form of the river, without creating an insurmountable paradox. (except marle preventing queen leene from being rescued, which was promptly dealt with in paradox eliminating fashion.)