Author Topic: Legend of the Hero Medal  (Read 7242 times)

V_Translanka

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2005, 08:38:33 pm »
But the hilt of most swords-every?-contains part of the blade...I think Masa & Mune seperated from the sword itself when it broke and the only piece that Glenn could find (or bothered to find) was the hilt.

Like I've always believed, I think Doreen is within the Pendant. It's around both during the Zeal era, both w/Schala & Crono & Co and it's also in El Nido w/Kid.

I think that when the Mastermune is created, it's more that Doreen replaces Masa than anything, since it's called the Grand Dream rather than the Grand Lion Dream.

DarkGizmo

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2005, 08:44:21 pm »
When the Masamune broke in two part Masa and Mune must have got out of the sword, and they had to protect it, so they protected the part that was still in Denadoro, but Doreen was enver to be seen there... She was in Zeal though, maybe she was sleeping all that time?

Daniel Krispin

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2005, 01:02:21 am »
Quote from: DarkGizmo
When the Masamune broke in two part Masa and Mune must have got out of the sword, and they had to protect it, so they protected the part that was still in Denadoro, but Doreen was enver to be seen there... She was in Zeal though, maybe she was sleeping all that time?


The thing is, Masa and Mune ARE the Masamune. There is no sword, per say. It is just an echo of wishes that they are manifesting into physical form. These two are the basic form of the sword, born of Melchior's dreams through the dreamstone, and thence trammeled within the stone that was the knife. The original form of the 'Masamune' thus was not the red knife, but rather Masa and Mune themselves (or, maybe, the Dreamstone before Melchior 'forged' it into these beings using his will. He did not fashion the blade with a hammer, but with his spirit.) They are its most basic form. Anyone remeber what I said about Melchior being Platonic, and how he believed that universal realities exist behind things that gave them their meaning (ie. a chair is a chair because an idea concept of chair exists, giving truth and meaning to it); this is the same with the Masamune. These brethren are the concept behind the knife, giving it meaning. No matter what the form, it is still 'Masamune'. I went into length regarding this long ago. Anyway, Doreen is simply a third, of these dreams or wishes of Melchior. Take them perhaps to be three colours of a colour wheel created by Melchior in the Dreamstone. Depending on what one does with it, different colours are used. For long, Doreen's 'colour' was idle, and had no place in the Masamune. It was a sword of strength and knowledge, not compassion. The Mastermune has all three. But these beings exist beyond normal space-time, and resonate within the Dreamstone itself. Doreen can still exist within the Masamune yet have no part in it. See?

DarkGizmo

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2005, 01:05:13 am »
hey it make sense! I jsut wonder why the hell did the masamune and add Doreen you get the Mastermune, who's a swallow...

Daniel Krispin

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2005, 01:15:52 am »
Quote from: DarkGizmo
hey it make sense! I jsut wonder why the hell did the masamune and add Doreen you get the Mastermune, who's a swallow...


Because it is an extension of Serge's will: power, compassion, and knowledge. Not Crono's. Not Melchior's. Serge's. And Serge's mind thinks to channel these things by the way of this certain weapon: the strength to defeat evil, the knowledge to know it, and the compassion to allow the captives to go free etc. it must be done through the weapon he knows and is most in line with his mind, and that is the swallow. Since the Dreamstone, forged as it is, is nothing more than the spirits of the three, then it is free to go wither it wills (remember the speed with which it departs Death's Door?), and it does so by encompassing the plain wood of the first weapon that Serge crafted, his Sea Swallow.

V_Translanka

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2005, 01:23:54 am »
The Sea Swallow would be made of bone, wouldn't it?

Daniel Krispin

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2005, 01:37:13 am »
Quote from: V_Translanka
The Sea Swallow would be made of bone, wouldn't it?


Right. I realized that as I hit submit, but I was too lazy to change it. Sorry.

Zaknafein Do'Urden

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2005, 03:29:19 pm »
The reading Deus Chisa made is a fantastic one.

  I believe that  it was a legend more attached to Massamune itself, and, therefore, not known by people(only those who were linked to belic stuff, like the Knights of Square Table and so on), bu Cyrus, indeed, may have told people that, with the Medal, Magus could be defeated.

jotabe1789

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2005, 09:31:16 pm »
So you say that Masa and Mune (and Doreen) would be platonic ideas?  :?  let me think about it for a while, hehehe.

RadicalDreamerLiz

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2005, 12:00:25 pm »
I'm just wondering, but how did Pierre end up with the medal in chrono cross? Could he have found it during the Porre invasion, if Frog dropped it again in the Porre cafe, and someone picked it up?

jotabe1789

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2005, 12:55:56 pm »
Check the first page of this thread ^_^ probably they are not the same "Hero Medal"  :wink:

Lord J Esq

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2005, 08:25:58 pm »
To get back on topic to the original question in this thread,

Quote
How exactly did the Hero Medal become the artifact that symbolizes the one meant to beat Magus?

I would start with the most likely OoC answer. The developers probably wrote in the concept of the Hero's Medal to augment the "epic" dimension of the whole Masamune story, a basic retelling of the battle of good versus evil symbolized by the conflict between Guardia and its noble king and heroes, and the Mystics, led by Magus and his vile generals. Placing a legendary sword from bygone times of forgotten glory in the hands of an unassuming hero of virtue deep tends to be a winning strategy for the good guys, and the Hero Medal authenticates the wielder of the sword. That's how you build a legend...with little bits and pieces of validation and embellishment organized around a central idea.

However, the IC answer is elusive. How the devil did that medal come to be associated with Magus, if Magus himself didn't exist in history prior to the Middle Ages? The same question applies to the "Magus-slaying" Masamune, too, which came up in another thread but never got answered satisfactorily. And to make matters more complicated still, any IC answer has to reflect the OoC intention. That's a tall order!

My own pet answer is that there are still more Chrono series adventures lurking behind the scenes, but that's as much a cop-out as saying "the Entity did it" when something anomalous happens. We have to make do with the facts we've got, rather than speculate outside of them.

We know that "Magus" never existed in ancient times. He showed up on the scene a few decades before the events of the game. At no time did the dialogue of Middle Ages townspeople suggest that Magus represented a more general, inheritable evil...meaning that the threat of Magus was of Magus' own making. And...crap. My computer is about to crash.

Deus Chisa

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2005, 10:57:06 am »
I never expected a small question like this to kick off so much serious discussion, but this is the Compendium, so I shouldn't be so surprised.  Anyway, besides all the Masamune/Mastermune discussion, it seems three theories regarding the Medal have been proposed.  Here they are, in CC style:

Cyrus-Intent Theory -

The Hero Medal was brought into the public eye by the Knight Captain Cyrus after he took it from the Frog King.  It became a symbol of those who would defeat Magus since that was one of Cyrus' goals in addition to gaining the Masamune.

Previous Threat Theory -

During the Founding of Guardia, the kingdom-that-would-be was under attack by an enemy with magic power.  This enemy was defeated by an unkown hero, whose visage is on the Hero Medal.  Thus, it symbolizes victory over evil magic.

Zeal-Creation Theory -

Like the Masamune, the Hero Medal was made in Zeal, and the two artifacts work together as a legendary set.  Therefore, since the Masamune is the sword to defeat Magus, the Hero Medal is the emblem of the Hero to do so.

ZeaLitY

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Legend of the Hero Medal
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2006, 03:43:44 pm »
What say you guys? Is this important enough for inclusion?