Author Topic: Chrono Сross Modification  (Read 36204 times)

DarioEMeloD

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2016, 02:45:24 pm »
"We can never make everyone happy"

I'm happy either way, it's the start of a new Chrono era. Maybe this is what we needed to revive the flame for the series? Who knows, but I'm hyped anyway.

You may now continue. Please.

Danetta

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2016, 05:34:18 pm »
One of the thing I don't understand is the wiki uses different file numbers for disc1 and disc2, making finding files more difficult. But maybe it is already too late to change all the pages.
In that case, one disc is a good solution.
I already created one full disc, only need to fix some minor jumps from Opassa to endings.
Due to increased size (because of videos) this disc is not usable with PS1, but it's still very good thing for modification purpose and emulators.

The numbers correspond to the valid entries in the file table. For whatever reason, that number differs slightly between the CDs. A one-disc setup might make things easier (including making a better base for future mods) if it's possible to make all the room files fit—I think those and the videos are the only places the two CDs have different data in the same space.
If you look closely at TOS and at "videos length and ID's table" then you will see that SQUARE project was divided to 2 discs at the last moment and there are obvious places to fit rooms/videos.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 05:39:16 pm by Danetta »

kolt54321

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2016, 07:07:34 pm »
"We can never make everyone happy"

I'm happy either way, it's the start of a new Chrono era. Maybe this is what we needed to revive the flame for the series? Who knows, but I'm hyped anyway.

You may now continue. Please.

I never thought I would say these words, but we have to keep the hype going. Get people interested, not lose them. I don't want to see whatever interest we have gone in 2 weeks, like almost every other mod.

I will not stop - I can't give up. I've been sitting on my hands for too long. This is my favorite game of all time, and I want to apply whatever I gained from those merciless years as a critic to this game - go all out. The only thing that will stop me is pushing this off for another time. The uncertainty extinguishes my motivation.

I have ideas, grand ideas. I can make Turnip the most memorable character of all time if people want me to - watch me. Please Danetta, let's make this happen. If you don't want to right now, I respect that, and it's completely your decision. But I am available now, and if we shelve it for even another month I may not be in a position to get this done. In two weeks, I start the year, with work from 7 AM till 11 PM. If I'm going to be working until 2 AM on the script, I'd like to get into the habit now. I don't know if I can motivate myself to do it starting with a full workload.

DarioEMeloD, Would you like to be on board? No worries, it's not a commitment, more of an interest check right now.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 11:02:30 pm by kolt54321 »

Danetta

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2016, 12:25:27 am »
kolt54321 , I do understand your position, but my time very limited, sometimes my survival pushed to edges. I am working on Cross for several years and still haven't the job done.
I know about motivation factor and how it interfere with time, but I am sure we just can't die after more than 15 years. I mean, if we are STILL here and there then it's already not possible for things to be completely abandoned.

Chrono Cross modmaking is not an easy task, sometimes you are just fighting with invincible wall over and over even when you left easier tasks untouched. Some things discouraged me when I can't solve them for a long time, but I still fight them over and over, Something solved, something is not, I am not gonna say something like "anyway we will live longer than it takes to complete" because for someone it's simply may be not true.

Anyway, I am still here, other modmakers still here too. If YOU can do something (making Turnip the greatest character or whatever) then you can start your work at any moment.

I will not shift priorities from battle-system to story rearrangement, I will look to both directions. I am not a director or lead designer here, but if we can do something together (ongoing investigations are always great (it's just nice to be engaged, lovely digging through resources, code and stuff), but it is not content-creating activity), then we should do it. You have my "yes".

kolt54321

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2016, 10:44:43 am »
kolt54321 , I do understand your position, but my time very limited, sometimes my survival pushed to edges. I am working on Cross for several years and still haven't the job done.
I know about motivation factor and how it interfere with time, but I am sure we just can't die after more than 15 years. I mean, if we are STILL here and there then it's already not possible for things to be completely abandoned.

Chrono Cross modmaking is not an easy task, sometimes you are just fighting with invincible wall over and over even when you left easier tasks untouched. Some things discouraged me when I can't solve them for a long time, but I still fight them over and over, Something solved, something is not, I am not gonna say something like "anyway we will live longer than it takes to complete" because for someone it's simply may be not true.

Anyway, I am still here, other modmakers still here too. If YOU can do something (making Turnip the greatest character or whatever) then you can start your work at any moment.

I will not shift priorities from battle-system to story rearrangement, I will look to both directions. I am not a director or lead designer here, but if we can do something together (ongoing investigations are always great (it's just nice to be engaged, lovely digging through resources, code and stuff), but it is not content-creating activity), then we should do it. You have my "yes".

I understand how it is, it's tough sticking through with modding for years at a time. I was unaware there were other modders, I thought that this was the only mod project still active.

Practically speaking, my work can't start until I'm able to see how (at least some of) the text will look in-game. Fixing up the script without being able to see any of it in game until completion just raises uncertainty I'm not sure I could handle and still put my 100%. As I have no clue how to mod, program, or anything else of that nature, I'm helpless without you.

Because of this, I'm afraid I can't dig through anything. So I'm not sure if that's the only thing you'd like to partner up with right now, and leave the script-changing for another time, or you're giving me the thumbs up, dividing your attention on each front. Since I don't have any technical knowledge, let me know if you're still okay with this, or would rather leave this for another time. Thanks!

DarioEMeloD

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #95 on: August 02, 2016, 01:30:54 pm »
@kolt: Sadly I know next to nothing about hacking, otherwise I'd love to. In any case, it's probably a good idea to set up a GitHub project or something like that so that everyone can help.

Kodokami

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #96 on: August 02, 2016, 05:30:01 pm »
I've been checking back on this periodically since I first saw it. I'm very interested in this project! If you need any help, I'll lend a hand (if I can). Maybe I can work with alfadorredux to give underdeveloped characters more dialogue or something.

kolt54321

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #97 on: August 02, 2016, 07:16:52 pm »
@kolt: Sadly I know next to nothing about hacking, otherwise I'd love to. In any case, it's probably a good idea to set up a GitHub project or something like that so that everyone can help.

Same. I don't know anything about hacking/modding either, so I guess we'll have to leave that to the pros. I think we could start a private subreddit for those involved. I would like to make it public but wouldn't want to catch SE's attention so soon...

I've been checking back on this periodically since I first saw it. I'm very interested in this project! If you need any help, I'll lend a hand (if I can). Maybe I can work with alfadorredux to give underdeveloped characters more dialogue or something.

Hey, great to have you! I can assure you, if this project gets off the ground, it will be fun. Of course, not everything is fun and games, but I think this is, more so than other projects.

What I'm really waiting for is the thumbs up from Danetta. I'm not sure if Danetta meant that I could start working on this by myself, or if she's willing to help me for now.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 07:19:51 pm by kolt54321 »

alfadorredux

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #98 on: August 02, 2016, 08:23:48 pm »
@Danetta: By all means, you should follow your muse. One thing you might end up touching on while you're working on the combat system that could help people interested in modifying the game script is more information on what some of the unknown battlescript and even fieldscript opcodes do—there are quite a few of them. If you find out anything of that nature, post it or add it to the encyclopedia/wiki.

@kolt etc.: Modifying the game script is actually a two-part (maybe even three-part) problem. Tools like the suite Terminus Traductions put together for their translation work should already be able to modify the text itself, but I doubt they can alter the number of lines spoken, make the models move or gesture, etc. That requires modifying the fieldscript, which is ugly stuff and not completely understood. yaz0r wrote a decompiler for it, but I think the only way of changing it is with a hex editor. Does anyone else know of an existing tool that might help?

(The possible third part has to do with additional cut-scenes—in Cross, they're normally separate rooms...)

I think the most important question to ask at this point is, other than utunnels, myself, and Danetta, is there anyone reading this thread who knows anything at all about programming? Because if we're waiting for me to code some solution, well, I might get to it sometime around Christmas. Might.

Regardless, I don't think there's a need to wait for Danetta's go-ahead—better to treat his(?) work and this as two separate mod ideas at this point, and maybe move to a separate thread. The two sets of work can be recombined at a later date if we decide we want them to "go together".

kolt54321

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #99 on: August 02, 2016, 09:24:40 pm »
@Danetta: By all means, you should follow your muse. One thing you might end up touching on while you're working on the combat system that could help people interested in modifying the game script is more information on what some of the unknown battlescript and even fieldscript opcodes do—there are quite a few of them. If you find out anything of that nature, post it or add it to the encyclopedia/wiki.

@kolt etc.: Modifying the game script is actually a two-part (maybe even three-part) problem. Tools like the suite Terminus Traductions put together for their translation work should already be able to modify the text itself, but I doubt they can alter the number of lines spoken, make the models move or gesture, etc. That requires modifying the fieldscript, which is ugly stuff and not completely understood. yaz0r wrote a decompiler for it, but I think the only way of changing it is with a hex editor. Does anyone else know of an existing tool that might help?

(The possible third part has to do with additional cut-scenes—in Cross, they're normally separate rooms...)

I think the most important question to ask at this point is, other than utunnels, myself, and Danetta, is there anyone reading this thread who knows anything at all about programming? Because if we're waiting for me to code some solution, well, I might get to it sometime around Christmas. Might.

Regardless, I don't think there's a need to wait for Danetta's go-ahead—better to treat his(?) work and this as two separate mod ideas at this point, and maybe move to a separate thread. The two sets of work can be recombined at a later date if we decide we want them to "go together".

The main reason I'm looking for a "go ahead" is because I know that I can't actually modify this myself. So unless I can find someone who's able to efficiently mod the game via the script, and is able to commit to doing so, it's difficult to start this project altogether.

If I could actually use the tools, manipulate cutscenes, and add dialogue lines myself I wouldn't be pushing for a commitment from anyone. Since I can't though, I'm at the short end of the stick. If we don't have someone on the programming side of things, we're a wishful fanfic at best. We can't get off the ground. If there's a thread, it would be a request for someone who can actually marry the modded script and the game.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 09:27:40 pm by kolt54321 »

Danetta

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #100 on: August 02, 2016, 09:49:06 pm »
That requires modifying the fieldscript, which is ugly stuff and not completely understood. yaz0r wrote a decompiler for it, but I think the only way of changing it is with a hex editor. Does anyone else know of an existing tool that might help?
Fieldscript can be decompiled, modified and then recompiled again without any problems. We still don't know some OP-codes, but we do understand the structure of scripts and most of the OP-codes we need to. Prizvel already modified/altered/added some scenes (primarily for test and fun purposes). All existing tools are actually the same, just re-writed with the same op-code descriptions.

However, as you know, it's not an easy or fast task to work with them.
Sometimes I think about idea to create a battlescript constructor with simple interface. It's possible and not really extra hard, but for fieldscript we still will have to edit decompiled "sources".

utunnels

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2016, 10:30:05 pm »
Well, in theory a simplest script compiler is about translating hex strings into bytes and replacing the labels(jump offset, function call, script entries, etc) with actual positions of the compiled data. That is why I wrote that thing in less than 1 hour. Even if we find new opcode the logic is still the same.

However if you want to make it more human-friendly, you need to write the code to translate human-readable functions into hex string first(mostly string manipulation jobs) then use the original code to compile it.

Danetta

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2016, 10:44:27 pm »
Yes, I know, but I haven't tried anything in this direction, just throwing up ideas.
I actually can fastread/write the decompiled code without any problems, really a lot of time spent doing this.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 10:47:50 pm by Danetta »

prizvel

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #103 on: August 03, 2016, 05:32:36 pm »
Experiments with fieldscript. With animations more difficult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CuTyYnl9TA

utunnels

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Re: Chrono Сross Modification
« Reply #104 on: August 03, 2016, 08:57:03 pm »
Looks perfect.