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31
Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: June 18, 2010, 11:29:36 am »@ShoeMagus
I agree with your interpretation. Though there's something I still not sure: it is not a contradiction to say Eclipse Magus is post-Trigger Magus and from an alternate dimension, since Magus himself also metions there are infinite worlds.
I think the new ending was influenced by CC: since history is composed by choices, this Magus can be from a 'branch' timeline of post-Trigger.
Not inherently a contradiction. From a perspective of writing, that quote seems to set up for CC. On the other hand, whoever this Magus actually is, he has had experience with extra dimensions, so it could be that he's from elsewhere. Of course, if EM is from some other dimension, that begs the question of what happens to the Magus that you recruit and fight Lavos with.
I'm suspicious of an "infinite dimensions" interpretation anyway, but I currently don't have the time to find a way to refute it.
Here's kind of an insane thought. I'll have to go back and replay the ending, but what if Crono and Co.'s memories are not wiped, but they cease to exist? I mean, I think its supportable in that most of the speculation in this thread seems to point out that they probably did not recall the events of the Distortions. What if (and now I'm contradicting myself), the Crono and Co. that enter Time's Eclipse aren't the regular versions, but somehow exist in an alternate dimension (see why I'm suspicious? it just causes problems). Things, aside from the Dream/Time Devourer, generally go to the DBT in order to cease to exist. Not to say that you can't travel there, but I don't think you can do so accidentally. The Distortions, though they seem to offer an explanation as to how Dalton winds up in 1000 AD, seem almost like a degradation in the time.
Wow that's insane.
32
Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: June 18, 2010, 03:44:44 am »
I've been slowly working my way through this thread again. Have thoughts that seem a bit worthwhile to me (after twenty pages of reading). Sorry if some of this is already resolved but...
Eclipse Magus- I'm strongly convinced that he is post-Trigger Magus. Not Magus from some alternate dimension or something weird like that. While it is worthwhile to test all options in a game, including visiting Time's Eclipse without having recruited Magus on the North Cape, the recruitment seems to me to be the canonical event in the game. Specifically because of this: "If so, hello, Janus!" I don't think Lucca would write a letter to Kid speculating on whether or not a guy she helped whack caught up with Kid. Its almost a minor plot point (I don't think anyone really wants Magus dead in the plot), but if the canonical ending is that Magus survived to search for Schala, then some version of him suddenly finding Schala seems logically like it would be him, Prophet garb or not. I think even the attitude fits in. He did not seem particularly hard of heart. He was never really chummy with Crono and Co., even though he helped them revive Crono and fight Lavos. There was no tearful farewell at the end of the game. He did his loner thing and mutely entered the Gate to continue his journey and find Schala. Crono wasn't his concern anymore and I think its only natural that the next time he sees them (probably feeling close to success again), he reacts with coldness. The first time he met them, they screwed up his summon. Sure he fails anyway (either by being eaten or whatever), but he'll always have that loving memory of them bursting in to mangle everything.
I think in the end, he was simply burned out. People react to his dialogue leading up to the loss of his memory with surprise, but its really not that weird. He spent his life, fueled by hatred for a creature that took away everything, particularly his family and his loving sister who, though his mom lost her mind, always tried to protect him. He finally manages to destroy said creature and then goes through time to find her. Finally finding her, going through what must have been all kinds of Hell to get into the Darkness Beyond Time, she rebuffs him and tells him to stop. That all of his efforts are pointless.
His life has been lived for that moment. I think despair is a natural reaction.
I don't think Amnesia Magus is Guile though, and I don't see why everybody started speculating that he was. It's clear that he wasn't. It was stated explicitly by the creators. He may have been intended to be Guile, but the idea was scrapped. So Magus is still unaccounted for. Though he has amnesia and is searching for something he's unaware of. Fun story ideas for that one. Along with whatever else happened to Crono and Marle (who are probably dead, though I'm leaning toward them being in hiding).
Eclipse Magus- I'm strongly convinced that he is post-Trigger Magus. Not Magus from some alternate dimension or something weird like that. While it is worthwhile to test all options in a game, including visiting Time's Eclipse without having recruited Magus on the North Cape, the recruitment seems to me to be the canonical event in the game. Specifically because of this: "If so, hello, Janus!" I don't think Lucca would write a letter to Kid speculating on whether or not a guy she helped whack caught up with Kid. Its almost a minor plot point (I don't think anyone really wants Magus dead in the plot), but if the canonical ending is that Magus survived to search for Schala, then some version of him suddenly finding Schala seems logically like it would be him, Prophet garb or not. I think even the attitude fits in. He did not seem particularly hard of heart. He was never really chummy with Crono and Co., even though he helped them revive Crono and fight Lavos. There was no tearful farewell at the end of the game. He did his loner thing and mutely entered the Gate to continue his journey and find Schala. Crono wasn't his concern anymore and I think its only natural that the next time he sees them (probably feeling close to success again), he reacts with coldness. The first time he met them, they screwed up his summon. Sure he fails anyway (either by being eaten or whatever), but he'll always have that loving memory of them bursting in to mangle everything.
I think in the end, he was simply burned out. People react to his dialogue leading up to the loss of his memory with surprise, but its really not that weird. He spent his life, fueled by hatred for a creature that took away everything, particularly his family and his loving sister who, though his mom lost her mind, always tried to protect him. He finally manages to destroy said creature and then goes through time to find her. Finally finding her, going through what must have been all kinds of Hell to get into the Darkness Beyond Time, she rebuffs him and tells him to stop. That all of his efforts are pointless.
His life has been lived for that moment. I think despair is a natural reaction.
I don't think Amnesia Magus is Guile though, and I don't see why everybody started speculating that he was. It's clear that he wasn't. It was stated explicitly by the creators. He may have been intended to be Guile, but the idea was scrapped. So Magus is still unaccounted for. Though he has amnesia and is searching for something he's unaware of. Fun story ideas for that one. Along with whatever else happened to Crono and Marle (who are probably dead, though I'm leaning toward them being in hiding).
33
General Discussion / Re: Big Surprise From Square Enix?
« on: May 11, 2010, 02:09:29 am »
Sadly, though I agree with tushantin's sentiment, I would still probably jump at anything remotely Chrono-related.
34
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Guinness' Top 50 Game Franchises of All Time
« on: May 11, 2010, 02:03:35 am »
As far as I'm concerned, Legend of Zelda should beat out any game on the list. I'll be honest, Chrono and the Metal Gear series are probably my top games. But as far the influence, the pervasiveness, and the sheer awesomeness? Zelda wins every time. The sad fact is that Mario is great, but the gameplay never significantly expands. Or when it did, it imbibed basically Zelda elements. Zelda has grown and changed over the years, as well as influencing all games.
Mario is great, but I think Zelda is better. Game Informer ranks the original as the best game of all time out of two hundred others.
Anyway, that's my rant for the night on the subject.
Mario is great, but I think Zelda is better. Game Informer ranks the original as the best game of all time out of two hundred others.
Anyway, that's my rant for the night on the subject.
35
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Wiz Khalifa on Chrono Trigger Beat
« on: April 28, 2010, 02:20:18 am »I beg your forgiveness Shoemagus
No worries. I'm sure I do worse things on this site.
36
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Wiz Khalifa on Chrono Trigger Beat
« on: April 26, 2010, 04:23:38 am »37
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: The Official King Zeal Discussion Thread
« on: March 30, 2010, 01:41:46 pm »
King Zeal's philosophy is both his greatest strength and greatest weakness. Its great because it makes him a really compelling character. His motives are grand, comparable to that of the heroes of the Chrono series, and he has an eloquent way of conveying his ideas.
The ambivalent part comes when the heroes seek to defeat him. On one hand they are trying to limit his temporal adventurism, which supports Gaspar's point about manipulation of time. On the other hand, they are operating under the same essential motive that KZ is, trying to keep and defend that which they love. In many ways, the Kingdoms of Zeal and Guardia are both idealistic places that are lost to catastrophes. You see the idealization of Guardia in Chrono Cross by the Acacia Dragoons.
So KZ's philosophy is superior in that his enemies are playing right into it, taking it up through the very act of trying to destroy him. However, it also leads to his own destruction as they try to fulfill their own dream.
The ambivalent part comes when the heroes seek to defeat him. On one hand they are trying to limit his temporal adventurism, which supports Gaspar's point about manipulation of time. On the other hand, they are operating under the same essential motive that KZ is, trying to keep and defend that which they love. In many ways, the Kingdoms of Zeal and Guardia are both idealistic places that are lost to catastrophes. You see the idealization of Guardia in Chrono Cross by the Acacia Dragoons.
So KZ's philosophy is superior in that his enemies are playing right into it, taking it up through the very act of trying to destroy him. However, it also leads to his own destruction as they try to fulfill their own dream.
38
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Has SE C&D'd any other fan projects NOT related to Chrono?
« on: March 26, 2010, 11:10:09 am »
Ahh thanks. Couldn't find it before.
39
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Has SE C&D'd any other fan projects NOT related to Chrono?
« on: March 26, 2010, 02:04:02 am »
This is just a random question, but why is there no FB group dedicated to CE? Not that this could do that much, but it would at least go along with the Youtube Memorial.
40
General Discussion / Re: Need to get in touch with SE regarding the future of Chrono... somehow.
« on: March 25, 2010, 03:14:41 am »
I'd say it would be better to get in touch with someone like Kato who might concievably have some remains of the Chrono series fermenting in his brain and might be able to convince Square-Enix that the Chrono series would be a good idea.
Though the statuettes and landmarks might help.
Incidentally, I wouldn't mind this FF VII remake. I always loved the game. I still love the graphics. I might actually have to buy a PS3 if they do this (ahh finally to be able to play Metal Gear Solid 4 while I'm at it). I really would hope that the score would be revamped and actually done fully by an orchestra.
Probably could tweak the dialogue a little bit (or get the Japanese actors and make it fully voiced! *dies*), but I can't imagine improving that much at all.
Though the statuettes and landmarks might help.
Incidentally, I wouldn't mind this FF VII remake. I always loved the game. I still love the graphics. I might actually have to buy a PS3 if they do this (ahh finally to be able to play Metal Gear Solid 4 while I'm at it). I really would hope that the score would be revamped and actually done fully by an orchestra.
Probably could tweak the dialogue a little bit (or get the Japanese actors and make it fully voiced! *dies*), but I can't imagine improving that much at all.
41
General Discussion / Re: Ask A Liberal
« on: March 22, 2010, 12:27:04 pm »
Would you prefer a more communistic, welfare state sort of system (I do not mean to use welfare state in a negative manner, though I realize some people understand it that way)? Or maybe I should ask, to what degree do you think that the State should support people who are just not contributing/producing?
I'm not so draconian that I think people with genuine problems aren't deserving of help (people who are actually disabled, for instance), but I see problems when the people who are alcoholics (who choose to drink, whether or not they are predisposed genetically to becoming dependent on alcohol AFTER they choose to drink) earning disability and social security checks. But do you draw a line where you say, "We cannot collectively support Group X."
I'm not so draconian that I think people with genuine problems aren't deserving of help (people who are actually disabled, for instance), but I see problems when the people who are alcoholics (who choose to drink, whether or not they are predisposed genetically to becoming dependent on alcohol AFTER they choose to drink) earning disability and social security checks. But do you draw a line where you say, "We cannot collectively support Group X."
42
General Discussion / Re: Record of Religious Ridiculousness, or ITT: Batshit religious insanity
« on: March 20, 2010, 01:31:57 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM0oBuhTLRI
Good Old Kirk Cameron.
A bit old, but its worth mentioning anyway. Note: "Our kids can no longer pray in public...cannot freely open a Bible in schools" which is complete BS (was IN high school). He mentions college professors and scientists being more atheists than Christians, not taking into account that there might be a real reason for this. Also...Einstein was not explicitly a theist. As I think Dawkins adequately presents. I could go on.
And as a personal favorite (and to keep this from becoming a thread targeting Christianity alone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REr7XfoiKrs
God Scientologists are creepy.
Good Old Kirk Cameron.
A bit old, but its worth mentioning anyway. Note: "Our kids can no longer pray in public...cannot freely open a Bible in schools" which is complete BS (was IN high school). He mentions college professors and scientists being more atheists than Christians, not taking into account that there might be a real reason for this. Also...Einstein was not explicitly a theist. As I think Dawkins adequately presents. I could go on.
And as a personal favorite (and to keep this from becoming a thread targeting Christianity alone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REr7XfoiKrs
God Scientologists are creepy.
43
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Is Magus really all that cool?
« on: March 17, 2010, 03:08:16 am »Actually the "drain" may have merely been something more powerful than MP Buster, but there are spells that trigger such effect to weaken foes (assumed real life/storybook spells, that is). But indeed that proves why Magus is weaker in his second bout against Glenn.
Even so, the "spells" such as the barrier and Geyser have nothing to with the powers sucked away from him. Magic requires knowledge, experience and will, and it can't be taken away just like that unless his powers were bound indefinitely, taking away his magic forever. The skills and barriers you've noticed is clearly the result of the resources available and calculated preparations (which Kato obviously left out, coz there are children playing this game; yet he left enough hints for the rest to find out, in CT, CC and RD).
As for Magus staying away from battles compared to Crono; how could you possibly think that? Rationally speaking, he's spent his whole LIFE in the Medieval ages, and a human in the midst of Fiends is not something common. He had to prove himself to them, and it certainly wasn't a show of fireworks. He had to battle intensely, prove himself to be worthy of the title "Magus", and had many challenges before him. He had to be the BEST! Don't you think that's obvious enough?
I did not say that Magus stayed away from battles. I meant simply that he wasn't going around fighting robots and Zealian crazies (lancers, evil queens, etc). What I was saying is that he had plenty of opportunity growing up to fight the various creatures that the 600 era had to offer, long enough to train up enough to perfect abilities like Dark Matter which he is perfectly capable of before Lavos drains him and after he trains again.
I don't take much more issue with your points with these last two posts. I just thought that you were implying that certain techs of Magus (like Dark Matter) were based on his position in the Castle (assisted by things like the sigil on the floor) rather than on his own innate skill/ability. I take no issue with your statement about Geyser and the Barriers because that makes sense (he has them there in the castle, but doesn't recover them later like he recovered Dark Matter).
As it is, I like Zephira's analogy. I think this debate raises some questions though about tech learning. Where techs are representative gameplay elements and where are they aspects of the story?
44
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Is Magus really all that cool?
« on: March 16, 2010, 01:59:49 am »I kept saying it before and I'll say it again. The "Magus was weakened by Lavos" talk is nothing but pure misconception. Magus was never actually "weakened", though perhaps "wounded" or "tired". Even so, that did not really hinder his skills. If he really was weakened and had his techs taken away from Lavos then two things would have definitely happened.
1) Crono and co would also have had their techs taken away
2) Magus would have obtained those techs later on since at the climax he was much more powerful than the Mystic Wars incident.
What makes this different is simple: Magus needed quite a lot of time and resources to prepare for the summoning and his battle against Lavos. He needed defense, offense, and good elemental/shadow support to back him up, and if it really took him ages to prepare and master then such strategy can't be conjured up in an instant out of his armpits. LOL
Kato was well aware of the principles of sorcery. For those who know em too, take a closer look at his chance, his techs, barrier and that pentacle he's standing in. You'll see what I mean.
Quote
Magus: Aaah!! 魔王「うぐ……！！ Magus: ugh......!!
My powers are being drained! ま、魔力が…… M, my magical power......
吸い取られてゆく……！？[END] It's being sucked away......!?
This shows Magus being drained in some way. It wasn't just a "MP Buster" sort of situation (because they had an animation for that; not that that is particularly conclusive) and this does not happen to the rest of Crono and Co suggesting that they do not necessarily have to lose their techs just because Magus does. They just get Rain of Destructioned until they pass out.
Here's the visual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5_Wgv2KhA
Begins around the 8 minute mark.
It looks like a handy plot device, but it happened. I can buy that certain things (the Elemental Shields, the Geyser) were dependent on preparation in the castle, but you're suggesting that a great chunk of Magus's power was based on it by this logic. Magus may have spent his childhood and adulthood away from the insane creatures that Crono encounters but he still had plenty of time to actually learn these techs. He was clearly proficient in other magic outside of his castle (killing Cyrus, splitting the Masamune in two, turning Glenn into a frog), along with however many humans he may have slaughtered in the war.
I'm not saying Medieval occultism does not play a part in the story (reading about pentacles is actually particularly interesting and does provide a new spin on it), but not at the expense of basic story mechanics.
45
General Discussion / Re: Ask A Liberal
« on: March 15, 2010, 02:33:59 am »
What's your opinion of libertarians and fiscal conservatives who are quite frankly not the fundamentalist nutbags that most of the Republican Party caters to?