Messages

31

Crimson Echoes Plot Construction / Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development

« on: July 14, 2005, 12:53:04 am »

Thing is, in CC, weren't the supposed best-of-the-best in the Acacia Dragoons (also a mixed male/female goup, btw) called the Four Devas?

It'd probably be better to stick with Guru on this as, first off, this became a hereditary position and her father had no male heirs, if I remember our backstory correct, and second, so as to not confuse the two groups.

True, but CC messed up a few things in that regard, that being one of them. The other is that 'dragoon' has never implied a warrior that uses swords or any sort of weapon other than a gun. A dragoon is a mounted musketeer, and is so named for the breath of fire - like a dragon's - that flames from the barrel of his musket. That aside, however, it might be seen that the warrior's connection to the ancient dragons, and their bearing of dragon-symbols, could give strength to the name being used for them, perhaps.

However, I think my strongest point in arguing this is that there was an allusion behind the existance of three, and only three, Guru's. To change that number, and add a fourth to their order, would disrupt this deft allusion. Moreover, 'deva' is not as major a term in CC, and I would not worry overmuch about confusion between the two or, at least, less so than the difficulty in inherent in the issue which I have just stated. The confusion of the groups is, to my mind, far preferrable than the disruption of the order of the Three.

Now, I have yet to read the plot as outlined (I would wish to do so on paper, but have yet to print it off)... I am not sure if it is apparent in this writing or not, but I am extremely muddle-headed, and have difficulty understanding and reading things to some extent. As such, I should not wish to read it until such a time as I am feeling more apt to it. But sufficed to say, from what you have said, I would recommend not making the Guru's a hereditary position. They seem nearly like the counsellors and chief advisors to the Zeal (I think this is even alluded to, in what one of Zeal says in Chrono Trigger, regarding the 'three Guru's who led Zeal', or something to that effect.) That said, I doubt that the position of counsellor would be hereditary, and would likely be rather drawn from the old and experienced of the lords and wise men - those who through years have proven themselves. Rather like the position of Poet Lauriate or something to that effect. Belthesar distinguished himself as a scientist, so was appointed such a post in the royal court. Judging by their high status, they may even have been lords prior to that time, as well.

But regardless, to have such a position as hereditary would pose a grave problem: one man may be wise and learned in a field, but it does not mean his scion is. My father is well-versed in matters of theology and the like, and I share something of his love of those things, but my younger brother is not quite so keen to them. In the same way, what should happen if, then, the postion of Guru of Reason were filled by a man that cannot think in such a way, and passes on this inability to his children as well? Wise men would need be drawn from the ranks of wise men, not inhereted. After all, it would not be wisdom to do otherwise.

And as a second point, I simply do not think the idea of a woman Guru works, and to my mind reflects strangely on the position of Guru. Firstly, at least to me, Guru always implies a man, never a woman. To make one a woman seems to me simply an attempt to equalize things across the sexes, but is not how things would work in real. Or, to put it more correctly, Zeal is an ancient culture. There were, mostly, strict lines in culture, about what people could hold what position. That of Guru seems to me one of those that would have been forbidden to women, at least in what I know of the form of ancient culture (some, it is true, freely allowed female rulers and the like - the Egyptians for example - but there they followed the practices of the male rulers, in Egypt even wearing the kingly beard.) The best solution I could think of to such a dilemma - and it is a dilemma of style and form, and to my eyes makes Zeal seem less as an ancient culture and more as a modern one - is to make a parallel order that is purely of women, the priestesses to the priests, so to speak. The female equivalent then could easily be Deva. This re-use would hardly be grievous - Black Wind is reused, after all. Then we could have three positions here as well, say the Deva of Ceremonies, or things to that effect. It would not be hard to have them intruduce themselves as the Deva of the Ceremonies, second of the womanly three, the ladies who sat across from the three lords.

In the end, I must say that it seems that a female fourth Guru seems more as what would happen in a fanfiction than in Crimson Echoes (which I hold to be far above fanfiction from what I have seen so far), and am merely attempting to keep it away from such ground.

Oh, sorry, didn't see your post, Hadriel. Well, to my mind, Deva worked because it is the real-life opposite to Guru. Personally, I never liked the sound of 'Guru' (if you've ever seen my story, I always name them 'Master'), so naturally prefer Oracle over Deva. I'll check the meaning of oracle, though. Hmmm... I thought it was Greek, I should have known better. It's Latin, oh well. I suppose thinking of the Oracle at Delphi deceived me. Hmmm... Oracle of the Ceremonies? Does that work? (that 'of the Ceremonies' I thought of today I thought worked interestingly.)

On the note of the position being hereditary, I wasn't clear.  I was referring to this specific Guru only, as this post has been sundered from Zeal for quite some time.

From what we worked out (Zeality, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm working from memory), the Zeal originated in Calasperan beneath the sea.  When they created the continents now known as Zeal, three of the four Gurus went with the Royal Family to the sky.  The fourth, however, remained behind to rule Calasperan, becoming the de facto king.  While the Gurus of Zeal continued to be appointed, the Guru in Calasperan took on the manners of actual royalty, including passing his title to his heir.  This would be why our Guru is female - no male heirs, so the title falls to the firstborn daughter.

32

Crimson Echoes Plot Construction / Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development

« on: July 13, 2005, 11:53:59 pm »

Awesome work guys, here, I've just been skimming through your story ideas. But a comment.

Dyasavah is the fourth Guru.

Since she's a woman, I'd hesitate on this naming, and should rather think it would be better if the number of Guru's stay at three. Rather, call her a Deva for, you see, if my memory serves, 'Deva' is the female version of 'Guru'. In that way, you could then have there being (or having been) three Devas to three Gurus, almost like the high priests and priestesses of old Zeal. Just an idea, and nitpicking on etymology.

Thing is, in CC, weren't the supposed best-of-the-best in the Acacia Dragoons (also a mixed male/female goup, btw) called the Four Devas?

It'd probably be better to stick with Guru on this as, first off, this became a hereditary position and her father had no male heirs, if I remember our backstory correct, and second, so as to not confuse the two groups.

33

Chrono Compendium Discussion / this is

« on: July 05, 2005, 03:19:48 am »

Thank you for the compliment... if that's what it was.

As for Time Bastard, it's basically a preventative measure against having duplicates polluting the timestream.

For example, Crono and Co. alter time in 12000 BC, resulting in a new timeline taking their interference into account.  This would mean that a new version of Janus is thrown into a gate to appear in 600 AD.  However, the old Janus (now Magus) had already time traveled, and as such is the "primary" version, causing the new Janus to cease to exist upon time traveling.

Clear as mud?

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Polling / 7/2/05 - Which Gurus' invention has had the most impact?

« on: June 26, 2005, 12:26:18 am »

In programming, the symbol " != " means "does not equal."  Since that's a legal statement, the program compiles and runs.  For most software companies, that equals a success and it gets shipped.

Now, as for my answer... I really have no idea, as most of these are linked.  The Pendant, the Mammon Machine, and the Ocean Palace all figure into one of the largest pieces of the story.  The Chrono Trigger is important, if not vital.  The Masamune is, well, really really cool.  FATE is the driving force behind the majority of Cross.  The Epoch is a major transport, and the Sapling of Hope kicks off the best scripted sidequest in the game, and let's you save Lucca's mom.

*sigh*  I'm gonna go with the Mammon Machine, as it was built to harness Lavos, which is what kicked this whole show off.  The Pendant is very important, but it mostly acted as a magical key.  The Mammon Machine, however, is pure power.

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General Discussion / Batman the begining

« on: June 22, 2005, 12:12:45 am »

And a resounding "aye" to this point.  Easily the best screen adaptation of the Dark Knight - they finally got him as he is supposed to be, someone whom the underworld of Gotham fears more than their bosses.  If they can keep this up, I'm back for more.

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History, Locations, and Artifacts / The background of the scene with Kid on Opassa Beach

« on: June 16, 2005, 12:30:02 am »

It could be that, at some point during the game's development, the little strip of land connecting the circle of land which is now Opassa Beach to the rest of the mainland wasn't there.  Maybe that would result in Opassa Beach being where that isthmus starts, and the mountain in the background would be that little circle of land.

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Submissions / Marle CTM Concept Art

« on: June 15, 2005, 12:31:20 am »

I like it.  My only complaint, however, is with the eyes.  The squared eyes make her seem like she's almost glaring.  Marle is a much warmer character than that.  Try rounding them more, sort of like Kid's eyes from CC.

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History, Locations, and Artifacts / Other Zealian Marvels?

« on: June 14, 2005, 11:55:53 pm »

For the Shield and Barrier, I'd agree with you that they could very well be creations of Zeal.  They seem to be something that they would do, and could possibly be considered precursors to the Tabs, as these temporarily raise your Defense and Magic Defense, whereas Tabs can do so permanently.

As for Shelters, though, I always took this to be a generic, catch-all type thing.  In 65,000,000 BC, they would be little more than lashed together stick lean-tos built only to keep off the rain and wind.  In 1000 AD, they'd be something like a tent, while in 2300 AD, they could very well be the apparently Enertron-related device that's pictured.

39

Editorials and Features / Poll Ideas & Editorial Ideas

« on: June 14, 2005, 01:32:48 am »

I believe there's only one correct response to that: "Some time before the Last Trump"

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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / how do you pronounce these peoples' names?

« on: June 04, 2005, 12:46:31 am »

Actually, he's correct.  Old Latin did not have a "j" sound or character.  Just because we now have this sound in English - a Germanic language, by the way, not a Latin descendant - has no bearing on Latin pronunciations and spellings.

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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / how do you pronounce these peoples' names?

« on: June 03, 2005, 06:33:13 pm »

I've always thought that Lucca was pronounced like "Luck-a", with the double c becoming a hard sound.

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Continuity of Radical Dreamers

« on: June 03, 2005, 12:57:26 am »

Actually, everything is logical.  It's just not always a good logic.

For example, let's take a murder.  Someone kills his best friend over something that was said, possibly an insult to the killer's girl or some such.  To the killer, he hears this insult, perceives it as a comment on how successful the killer is at finding a mate.  This is an attack on his dominance, something that could hurt his standing with his friends in the long run, if it doesn't go unanswered.  And how better to establish dominance than by eliminating the challenge to your dominance?  

Sure, he has gone to an extreme, and it would seem very irrational to us, but it was the only available option to him, as he perceived it.  With various biochemical factors calling for a speedy decision, that was the only one he could do.

And before you start saying that he didn't think of all this, he didn't.  His subconcious did, mostly automatically.  They're called instincts.  But the reasoning for the instinct is still very similar to that described above.

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Kajar Laboratories / Re: The ‘Polis War

« on: June 02, 2005, 01:10:02 am »

2) There are roughly 5 “Magus Searching For Schala” fics for every copy of both CT and CC ever sold.  That angle has been done to death (I know -- one of them is mine)

I know what you mean.  My first (and only thus far) fanfic was of this vein, although I did try to take it in a different direction.  Look at "Crimson Tears" here on the Compendium if you care to read.  Just forgive the horrid magician's fight in the middle; I'm gonna try and rework that (and most of the rest of the story) soon, apply a few more years of writing experience to it.

*-Like a better  name.  "The Polis War" just sounds lame.

Something referring to the fact that they're from the future, maybe?  "Time's War" or "The Dimension Wars"?

But, I do have to agree with Daniel here, "The Polis War" is actually pretty good.  Unique, at any rate.

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Continuity of Radical Dreamers

« on: May 29, 2005, 12:17:36 am »

A sufficiently advanced computer could mimic human behavior to the point where it would be nigh-impossible to tell the difference, at which point one would have to being trying to figure out whether or not this means that the computer has rights as an individual.

To get back to the subject at hand (namely, RD), going off the evidence from the game itself that these are truly sentient individuals, then, if that entire world was merely a computer simulation, how does this new information remove any of the old pointing to their sentience?  Is a person any less real for not being made of flesh and blood?

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General Discussion / Chrono Symphonic - A Cinematic Interpretation

« on: May 28, 2005, 01:31:50 am »

Yeah, I really enjoyed these myself.  Am looking forward to hearing the rest of them once they're released.  Would love to read the script you're working from, too, but that's a compelely different subject.