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121
Time, Space, and Dimensions / The Bend of Time
« on: July 01, 2005, 05:41:10 am »
Ah, yes! I forgot that there was a Thule in Greenland. Now that you mention it, I believe there's an air base there.
122
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Guardia's Odd Inheritance
« on: July 01, 2005, 04:47:02 am »
You raise two interesting points. It is certainly possible that last names are not passed down at all. (In fact, there is little reason to believe that they are. Think of the size of Truce. Crono could simply be "Crono of Truce" for all we know. But I digress.)
What is certain is that all of Guardia's monarchs (with the possible exception of one; see the endnote in my first post for more details) have assumed the name King Guardia. However, I would bet my right arm that King Guardia XXXIII has a first name. That is, I doubt that people called him Prince Guardia XXXIII when he was growing up!
I assume you are referring to the Playstation ending FMV. Crono receives a crown because he becomes a prince by marrying the princess. That is all we know for sure. It is uncertain whether Crono would become King Guardia XXXIV once the current king dies. Perhaps Marle would become the monarch (i.e., Queen regent) and Crono would simply be a prince. (Compare this to the present day situation in the UK where the Queen is of royal blood and her husband, Prince Philip, is not a king.)
Once again, all we know is that historically, all of Guardia's monarchs have been kings (again, with one possible exception). And since the game makes it pretty clear that King Guardia XXI is Marle's ancestor, I think it's safe to assume that Guardia's crown is passed on to the king's son--if he has one. When the king has no son, as is the case in 1000 A.D., the game gives no indication who the heir to throne is. The next monarch could be the king's daughter, or it could be whomever the king's daughter marries, or it could be someone else entirely. The chancellor, for instance. Who knows?
(If you're wondering why I suggested the chancellor, recall that when King Guardia is found guilty of stealing the Rainbow Shell, Yakra XIII--posing as the chancellor--believes he is next in line. Just thought I'd throw that in there for the sake of completeness.
)
What is certain is that all of Guardia's monarchs (with the possible exception of one; see the endnote in my first post for more details) have assumed the name King Guardia. However, I would bet my right arm that King Guardia XXXIII has a first name. That is, I doubt that people called him Prince Guardia XXXIII when he was growing up!
Quote
What about Crono becoming the King? He's not an heir, yet, he acquires some kind of crown...
I assume you are referring to the Playstation ending FMV. Crono receives a crown because he becomes a prince by marrying the princess. That is all we know for sure. It is uncertain whether Crono would become King Guardia XXXIV once the current king dies. Perhaps Marle would become the monarch (i.e., Queen regent) and Crono would simply be a prince. (Compare this to the present day situation in the UK where the Queen is of royal blood and her husband, Prince Philip, is not a king.)
Once again, all we know is that historically, all of Guardia's monarchs have been kings (again, with one possible exception). And since the game makes it pretty clear that King Guardia XXI is Marle's ancestor, I think it's safe to assume that Guardia's crown is passed on to the king's son--if he has one. When the king has no son, as is the case in 1000 A.D., the game gives no indication who the heir to throne is. The next monarch could be the king's daughter, or it could be whomever the king's daughter marries, or it could be someone else entirely. The chancellor, for instance. Who knows?
(If you're wondering why I suggested the chancellor, recall that when King Guardia is found guilty of stealing the Rainbow Shell, Yakra XIII--posing as the chancellor--believes he is next in line. Just thought I'd throw that in there for the sake of completeness.
)
123
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Guardia's Odd Inheritance
« on: July 01, 2005, 03:57:24 am »
Sorry. I did in fact know you weren't referring to my post. I suppose that's why I became upset when I saw that you suggested precisely what I had already suggested (and backed up with evidence). That's all.
Quoth Sentenal:
Regarding your comment, you are correct that nowhere in the game does anyone say Aliza is a dead ringer for Leene. However, it is established that each of them is a dead ringer for Marle. Below are the relevant quotes (which I confirmed using Zeality's Text Dump):
Soldier, Guardia Castle, 1000 A.D.: "Princess Nadia's a dead ringer for her mother. That's why the King's so strict with her."
Leene's Attendant, Guardia Castle, 600 A.D.: "Which means the real Leene was somewhere else. It's exactly as I thought. But you're [Marle] a dead ringer for her."
So, there you have it. Marle is a dead ringer for Leene, as well as for Aliza. By syllogism (i.e., A = B and A = C, therefore B = C), Aliza is a dead ringer for Leene. Since a dead ringer is a person who is almost identical to another, there is no way Marle could be a dead ringer for two people who themselves look only similar to each other.
Quoth Sentenal:
Quote
She could have shared some traits with Leene that made people think she looked alot like her, and shared some different traits wtih Aliza. And when exactly did they say she was a dead-ringer for Aliza?
Regarding your comment, you are correct that nowhere in the game does anyone say Aliza is a dead ringer for Leene. However, it is established that each of them is a dead ringer for Marle. Below are the relevant quotes (which I confirmed using Zeality's Text Dump):
Soldier, Guardia Castle, 1000 A.D.: "Princess Nadia's a dead ringer for her mother. That's why the King's so strict with her."
Leene's Attendant, Guardia Castle, 600 A.D.: "Which means the real Leene was somewhere else. It's exactly as I thought. But you're [Marle] a dead ringer for her."
So, there you have it. Marle is a dead ringer for Leene, as well as for Aliza. By syllogism (i.e., A = B and A = C, therefore B = C), Aliza is a dead ringer for Leene. Since a dead ringer is a person who is almost identical to another, there is no way Marle could be a dead ringer for two people who themselves look only similar to each other.
124
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Guardia's Odd Inheritance
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:26:10 pm »
Epsilon, did you not read my post?
To quote myself:
So, to answer your question, not only is it possible that Aliza is a member of a different branch of the Guardia family, but it is also probable.
I put quite a bit of effort into my first post on this thread (which, incidentally, was my first post, period) so I am a little dismayed that nobody has bothered to read it. If it doesn't answer all questions on the subject, then by all means, question my conclusions. But please, at least read my first post before needlessly debating points that have been covered.
~ Sir Frog (aka dacb1984)
To quote myself:
Quote
Summary: The crown in Guardia is passed on to male heirs. King Guardia XXXIII, Marle's father, is of royal blood and was, presumably, heir to his father, King Guardia XXXII. Marle's late mother, Queen Aliza, was never heir to the throne, although she is directly descended from Queen Leene. (Perhaps King Guardia XXI and Leene had two children and one became King Guardia XXII and the other sired Aliza's great great great...and so on...grandfather.)
So, to answer your question, not only is it possible that Aliza is a member of a different branch of the Guardia family, but it is also probable.
I put quite a bit of effort into my first post on this thread (which, incidentally, was my first post, period) so I am a little dismayed that nobody has bothered to read it. If it doesn't answer all questions on the subject, then by all means, question my conclusions. But please, at least read my first post before needlessly debating points that have been covered.
~ Sir Frog (aka dacb1984)
125
Time, Space, and Dimensions / The Bend of Time
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:13:15 pm »
The word Thule (it is generally capitalized) has several meanings, but all relate to the concept of a place (often insular) in the far north. Ultima Thule is an ancient Roman phrase refering to any place beyond the edge of the (esp. northern) world. The phrase is usually used figuratively. So, if the translation in question is to be believed, then Bend of Time is more properly End of Time.
126
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Guardia's Odd Inheritance
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:00:08 pm »
Quoth Sentenal:
Sentenal, did you not read my post? I showed in no uncertain terms (using direct evidence from the game) that both King Guardia XXXIII and his wife Aliza are directly descended from King Guardia XXI and Queen Leene. This means, of course, that Marle's parents are distant cousins. The only way to refute this would be to ignore some of the comments made by the game's NPCs. In other words, it's irrefutable.
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Why is this significant, why would this make you think that females are those who carry on the Guardian line? If King Guardia XXXIII was not the one married into the family, but Queen Aliza was, that would make Guardia XXXIII a direct decendant of Queen Leene as well. They would both be direct decendants of Guardia XXI too.
Sentenal, did you not read my post? I showed in no uncertain terms (using direct evidence from the game) that both King Guardia XXXIII and his wife Aliza are directly descended from King Guardia XXI and Queen Leene. This means, of course, that Marle's parents are distant cousins. The only way to refute this would be to ignore some of the comments made by the game's NPCs. In other words, it's irrefutable.
127
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Guardia's Odd Inheritance
« on: June 30, 2005, 04:57:01 am » Hi, everyone! This is my first post on the Chrono Compendium. You may know me from the GameFAQs boards as dacb1984. Now for the matter of Guardia's line of succession:
Observation 1
- Young Woman, Truce Residence, 1000 A.D.: "Hard to believe Guardia is now 1000 years old, and our King is the XXXIII descendant to the throne!"
Conclusions:
- Since King Guardia XXXIII is the 33rd ascendant to the throne, we can conclude that all previous monarchs were called King Guardia. (However, see my endnote.)
- Guardia's crown has always been passed on to a male heir.
Observation 2
- Lucca: "Marle, that is, Princess Nadia, is a descendant of Queen Leene."
- Princess Nadia is a dead ringer for her late mother, Queen Aliza.
- Princess Nadia is a dead ringer for Queen Leene.
Conclusions:
- Queen Aliza was a dead ringer for Queen Leene (by syllogism).
- Queen Aliza was a direct descendant of Queen Leene.
- Queen Aliza and King Guardia XXXIII were distant cousins (since they are both direct descendants of Queen Leene).
Observation 3
- Throughout Crono's adventures in 600 A.D., it is clear from King Guardia XXI's words and actions that he, and not his wife, is in charge. The following quote is but one example:
From Zeality's Text Dump:
Quote
[Guardia Castle, 600 A.D.]
KING: Hello!
You're always welcome here.
What can I do for you?
...
Frog: We asketh a favor...
...
KING: I get it. You want me to keep
that huge shell safe here until the
next century, right?
LEENE: I ask for the sake of [Frog].
Please carry out their request.
KING: Done!
I shall obtain the shell and store it in
the castle, as a national treasure.
- Also, note that the King's throne is much larger than the Queen's.
Conclusion: King Guardia XXI is the monarch, and his wife, Queen Leene, is his queen consort. Of course, this conclusion follows directly from Observation 1, but I mention it nevertheless to strengthen my point that the line of succession is through male heirs.
SUMMARY: The crown in Guardia is passed on to male heirs. King Guardia XXXIII, Marle's father, is of royal blood and was, presumably, heir to his father, King Guardia XXXII. Marle's late mother, Queen Aliza, was never heir to the throne, although she is directly descended from Queen Leene. (Perhaps King Guardia XXI and Leene had two children and one became King Guardia XXII and the other sired Aliza's great great great...and so on...grandfather.)
I should stress here that Queen Leene and Queen Aliza are 12 generations apart, so Marle's parents are only distantly related. I imagine that King Guardia XXXIII and Aliza would have been aware of their relation when they were married, but it is certainly not uncommon (at least in our universe) for royalty to marry cousins, let alone extremely distant cousins.
Anyway, I hope this resolves all of the issues.
~ Sir Frog (aka dacb1984)
Endnote: Of course, if you interpret the woman's quote literally, then King Guardia XXXIII is the 34th monarch (since he is the 33rd descendant), meaning that there must have been one monarch whose name was not King Guardia. There are two possibilities: either a King assumed a different name or there was once a regent (i.e., ruling) Queen. However, Queen Leene was certainly not a monarch, as concluded from Observation 3.