Messages

31

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic and Characters in CT

« on: December 12, 2003, 11:31:45 pm »

It seems I failed in appropriately describing my point.  I apologize if I have given you a false impression here, but the intention of this thread is to define and catagorize the prestated notions, to develop a framework so that the thesis you have stated can be proven and irrefutibly stand as fact.

Pretend that none of the points that Zeality mentioned have even been thought about.  In this thread is wanted PROOF!  A cause/effect relationship.  When this happens, that happens.The idea is to be able to describe the process, develop a point A that will eventually lead to the point B described by Zeality.

-Heaven, Wind, Fire, Shadow compose reality.

Okay, the intention of this article is to prove this statement by taking apart each aspect and finalizing the idea.  HOW are they combined to form the basic aspects of the game?

Magic is the biological or mechanical manipulation of these elements.

Okay, how does a person manipulate them?  What somatic and verbal components are necessary?  We see the effect, but how is it acheived?

-That elements conform to one of the following three theories:
***Spekkio is incorrect, as the designers rewrote the series by adding Chrono Cross' elements
***The Cross' elements simply utilize six natural forces, such as trees and earth, and not the true roots of the basic four
***The Cross' elements are combinations of the basic four

This is where we hit the bread and butter, the end result of the equation.  If we can take the parts of CT that we understand through the process, and compare it to the same points in CC (By taking apart each character if necessary... all of em.  I feel we might get the same effect by taking apart maybe only 8-14 of the most extreme cases.  I'll discuss that later)  We may yet be able to conclude which of those theories is more correct.  We can see how the elements interract, which may prove/disprove the Spekkio analysis.  We can determine how the elements work in the same manner, which would prove/disprove the Spekkio and natural forces theories.  With this process, (And it will be a long haul, let me tell you)  We can examine the mechanics that lead to the truths that exist.

-Lavos imbued man with magical ability for its own evolutionary ends.
-This ability remained throughout, but was severely negated after the fall of Zeal.

This would not be the main ends towards which this equation is geared, but new insight on how or in what manner could probably be harvested from what is said.

-Innate colors reflect one's spiritual or mental gravitation

This theory, while Im sure is general recognized as true, will simply be run through the gauntlet.  We want the proof that leads to the result.

The entire point of this exercise is to decompose these facts/theories into their basic forms.  Yes, we know that when we heat ice it turns into water and air; but, when we discovered the molecules behind these actions it opened up a new venue of science and understanding.  Im simply curious as to where an understanding of the basic... Chemistry of magic shall take us.  
(I was pondering the use of the word Alchemy, but that would be innapropriate as to convey a sense of mysticism.  I/We want this down to a science, no blind faith necessary.)

32

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic and Characters in CT

« on: December 12, 2003, 08:49:24 am »

I've taken a look at the forums on magic, and I have decided something.  Whenever one does a scientific experiment you change a variable, and leave the rest the same; but this is only applicable if a process exists.  I would propose that those involved step back for a second and try to determine something:  Is all magic the same in CT and CC?  I know, I know, this is the exact topic you've been studying; but I have yet to see something on HOW magic works, not just the nature of the matter.  Remember, the concept of gravity was discovered after experiments and documentation, it could not be scientifically proven by itself without proof.  It took many experiments, and MANY misconceptions before it could be truly represented.

These are the step by step questions I would ask of each character, and when we have an answer, I would imagine a systemic, easy to understand form of magic could in fact be determined by this process if applied to each character (And they would make an interesting encyclopedia category.)  I will update the chart below when a decision has been made regarding the answer to specific questions.  Remember, I expect VERY mixed results regarding the answers to these questions, and if you think there is a question to be added, say it!  Also, this is not a thread to specifically state the nature of magic.  It is designed to be a tool to be used elsewhere.

  This shall be called:  The Magic Equation

I have updated the list as to the positions stated thus far, and have given a description of the hero casting the spell/ability to help move things along.  I added the Chi theory as presented so far.  Deleted weapon catagory.  Updated as of December 15.
Crono: Hero of Time

  Innate Element:  Light
  Characters Physical/Elemental aspect:  Chrono's Physical appearance is that of a warrior, fast and true.  So far, has little to nothing to do with his innate.
  Characters Mental/Elemental aspect:  Chrono's character is one of 'pure' intentions, as he appears to have few to none malicious intentions; and is willing to save his allies.  He suffers in the fact that he has to save everyone else without regard for himself.
  Character Abilities:  
Cyclone-  Chrono spins around in a circle with his sword.  
Slash-  Crono manipulates his internal *Chi*, creating a wave of energy that physically manifests and travels in a straight line to his foes.  Slash has the ability to counter Masa/Munes wind techniques.  
Spincut-  Crono jump attacks his opponent with his sword.
Confuse-  Chrono manipulates his Chi, taking it to an almost magic level by creating several visages of himself from light either intentionally or unintentionally.  Chrono moves amidst these images to strike at the enemy when least expects to deal 4x damage to the enemy.
  Character Magic:  
Lightning-  Crono calls a lightning bolt.
Lightning 2-  Crono either releases stored energy which radiates around a point or the area is infused with electrical energy from outside forces.
Life-  Crono calls on a little Cherub to poke his ally back to life.
Luminaire-  Crono's Chi is manipulated to the point in which it finally gains magic properties as Chrono releases a sphere of light from his body.  The heat and transferring energy damage opposing enemies within the sphere.

Chi Theory:  Chi is a magical *aura* that a character has that reflects their personality.  Some characters have the ability to tap into their *aura* to enhance their attacks and increase their fighting potential.  Chi could be magical in nature, or it could be in part psionic.  It has yet to be determined if a character has access to chi because of Lavos or if it is a natural occurence.

33

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Masamune, Einlanzer, & Hero's Medal

« on: December 11, 2003, 08:02:31 am »

I shall hereby name my theory the:  Masamune Battery Theory.
Heh
 
Anyways, to continue with the earlier discussions, Remember that the generally conceded reasoning for Magus's transformation would have been Dark Magic, ipso facto, Wouldn't the Mammon Blade have decided to go for a cosmetic makeover as well either intently or unintently?
 
Also, with proposed Master System, once again (And I keep forgetting to quote) it was earlier stated that so far the Mammon Blade/Masamune had selected people with strong senses of self and a strong will (Radius... etc.)  This would also coincide with my Battery Theory, the blade needs a 'proper' recepticle to channel and guard its power.  Masa and Mune direct this search while they are in control, and Lavos directed it while he was in control.  Now remember Lavos brings 'Evolution' (i.e. change), and it would be logical that the Mammon Blade would be passed in quick succession from one master to another.  Masa and Mune however pick one for life on a general basis, and every time they have been handed off its been for some quest or another.  Masa and Mune require that the host be willing and have a purpose to better release said energy.  They want the biggest and the best.  Lavos simply wants a host to release it in a quick, angry burst.  And if the host survives, so much the better.

As for the dreamstone, It always seemed to me to be a sort of mental Capacitor, something mental power can be charged into and released from with minimul fuss but no long term commitment.  

I have another question, what is the origins of the Masamune in real life?  If somebody could find the myth or story in which this blade was brought to the attention of so many video games, it might lend us a hint as to the nature of the blade in the game.

34

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Masamune, Einlanzer, & Hero's Medal

« on: December 10, 2003, 09:12:47 pm »

Pardon me for jumping in uninvited... but I figured I would add something not yet mentioned (I think.)

  (This is abstract and hypothetical, pardon the lack of proper documentation.)

    Earlier on it was stated that the Masamune was effective against Magus because It absorbed/distorted the energy of Lavos that permeated Magus's being.  I propose that purpose be taken a step further, in that Melchior created the Masamune to be a 'receptacle' of Lavos power.  Fighting fire with fire.  The Red Weapon was the untuned form of Masamune, and thus was attuned to Lavos's energy when it was plunged into the Mammon Machine, thus 'completing' it, with Masa and Mune as a sort of 'guardian' or keeper of the absorbed energies.  
   
As the battles continued, the Masamune absorbed more and more of the latent energy of Lavos.  How Masamune Two of CT fits in (As I see it) would be that Cyrus's spirit joined with the blade and 'increased' the energy of Lavos that could be harnassed.
     
Frog faces off against the true form of Lavos with the others, holding the Masamune in his hands.  One slash, two slashes, each one would have absorbed more of Lavos's power, pure and untainted (relative).
   
After Lavos is dispatched, Masa and Mune sleep, knowing that the threat is 'over.'  Cyrus goes on to his great reward, reincarnated, or completely nullified as time sees fit.  In their ignorence (and the two have litterally proven they are airheads) they figure no more Lavos, no need for the sword; little do they know that in fact Lavos still exists, albeit in a somewhat different form.  Lavos takes over the Masamune while the two sleep, creating the 'Demon Blade' of CC out of the pulsing-dangerous energy that the sword had accumulated over time.
   
This could also explain why Doreen was so angry with Masa and Mune, who had been sleeping on the job, letting Lavos use the accumulated energies of the sword as a form of avatar for himself.

This would explain the dual nature of the sword somewhat, for while it would 'reflect' the will of the weilder, it would also have the will of Lavos acting upon it.  It would take someone of strong will to balance the ying/yang aspect of the powers.  Masamune is the positive aspect of the power.  Demon Blade is the negative aspect of the power.
   
With this theory the Hero's medal that Frog was so attached to would in fact be Psychosomatic as earlier stated, as it would focus the intention of the weilder of the blade.  This would mean the Hero Medal would NOT have to be the same for both Frog and Pierre.  One must have an ideal to focus on, a banner to hold high and say "this is what I strive for."  It would be a power to enforce the mental-positive Masamune aspect.

    For those of you asking why didn't the Masamune aspect turn everyone who weilded the blade into a raving peace zealot, remember the intention of good has never theoretically been to dominate evil, but instead to create the balance that is necessary for existence to flourish.  The reason why the Demon Form DID make weilders become death zealots and jealous is because the intention of evil is indeed to overtake and sway the balance in its favor.