Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Dain

Pages: 1 [2] 3
While looking over some material in the Inferno of Dante's Comedy, I noticed some parallels that struck me as signifigant to Chrono Trigger.
In the last Canto of the Inferno, Dante and Virgil approach the Great Worm (aka Lucifer, Satan, Dis...), who is frozen in a huge ice sheet located where he originally fell, the center of all mass.  Lucifer's fall was so great that it pushed up a mountain on the opposite side of the world named Purgatory.  Although Death's Peak (wasn't created just as Lavos fell as we don't see it until 2300, it seems Lavos did eventually create it.
The sinners surrounding Lucifer are so frozen that they cannot move.  In CT, when the party is rescuing Chrono from death, they are teleported to a spot in time that has been frozen, and all who surround Lavos are frozen as well.
The Great Worm is depicted as having three faces as a hellish parallel of the divine trinity (Lavos core and the two bits).  Each of these faces eternally bites into the the three greatest sinners (Judas with the most punishment, and then Brutus and Cassius).  Remember that Queeny is the closest to Lavos in that frozen scene, and she is mostly to blame for Crono's death, as was Judas for Jesus' death.
As Dante and Virgil leave hell, they climb Satan's flanks to reach the island where Purgatory is located.  In CT, the party must climb the shell of a Lavos spawn (Lavos by proxy) in order to proceed further on Death's Peak (which is also located on an island).
Other various things I noticed which may be too much of a stretch:
Nine Circles of Hell - Nine Gates total at the End of Time
Dante and Virgil reach Purgatory by Easter Sunday (and so does Jesus) - the gang ressurects Crono using an egg (which Xathael notes in his Testament).
Magus joins the party right after Crono dies and helps the party on Death's Peak as well as against Lavos - He could represent Virgil (Virgil was widely seen as a magician and prophet in the middle ages, and Virgil assists Dante in his climbing Purgatory as Magus helps the party climb Death's Peak).
King Arthur's sword is described in the Inferno as cutting through the shadow of Modred (it's described this way in the Arthurian legend as well I believe) - Frog's sword cuts through Magus' shadow magic, leaving him vulnerable
At the top of Purgatory, Dante meets with Beatrice - At the top of Death's Peak, Crono is met by Marle.

As for any other parallels, I'll keep looking.

Whenever a myth is moved into another culture, it loses meaning unless you tranlsate it's terms into terms that will have the same meaning and effect for that culture.  Thus, an artistic liscence is permissible so long as they translate the obscure japanese puns and refrences into occidental (or western) puns and refrences.  
Whoever does this is going to need vast knowledge of our western myths to be able to preserve the original meaning of the game.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 07, 2005, 07:16:13 pm »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages

(My apologies if I went to far in analyzing it, but is not the nature of the Compendium to look at things in such a scholarly/philisophical light?)

Quite all right, it's great to have such a discussion.  And my apologies if I am expecting an ocean where there is only a puddle.  
It may be that it is just a matter of semantics, like you said in your last post, it is merely a name given to something that can split/stop/etc time.  I agree that it could very well be used in that way.   That said...
The only thing that makes me think that it is signifigant that those two specific things are called Chrono Triggers is that they both have the function not only of splitting/stopping/ect time, but also of performing the resurrection of a single person (ie Crono or Schala).  No other thing can accomplish this feat.  Symbolically, each can be seen as a trancendental device that aids in resurrection.  And since there is a parallel with the myth of Christ, it is no mistake that these devices are given (or manipulated) by the gurus (ie Gaspar in CT and Balthasar in CC).  The Trigger would in this case be seen as Myrrh (which is used in cremation).
Looking at the three imperial regalia given to the emperor (similar to the three wise men myth), the Trigger corresponds with the jewel "Yasakani no magatama ", which corresponds to the virtue of benevolence.  In both games it makes sense that the benevolent object/person is the thing that resurrects.
This is the connection I am trying to look at more closely; the nature of the trigger in both games, and any connections (symbolic or metaphysical) they may have.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 07, 2005, 02:25:02 pm »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages

But did I not say that? I maintained that it was not the changing of events in time, but changing the established nature of time, such as freezing it or splitting it, that made it a Chrono Trigger. A time traveller is like a sailor up and down a river of time, but he who is a Chrono Trigger shall command the waters to do his will.

All I'm saying is that using that logic, more than just Serge and the CT Time Egg can be called a Trigger.  So why would the developers choose to call those two specific things by the same name, rather than something like the pendant, or the Time Egg from CC?

Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 07, 2005, 02:14:21 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking

1) Since when did Crono ever get sucked into the DBT.....
2) Lucca made a prototype time egg too, and it's in Kid's Astral Amulet...

At the bottom of my post I said that is where I assumed he went because of the circumstances, the party never took the body with them so it stayed in the same place as Schala when she went to the Tesseract.  But it really doesn't matter for the point I'm trying to make about the Trigger.
As to the Time Egg Lucca made, they never call it by the Chrono Trigger, but Lucca may have made it with the assistance of Balthasar.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 07, 2005, 02:30:45 am »
Well, I do know the definitions of both "Chrono" and "Trigger", and thus the meaning of the compound word "Chrono Trigger"...but that really wasn't my point in posting this thought.  True, anything in the game could be called a Chrono Trigger...such as Crono's mop weapon, which could be used to defeat Lavos and thus change time.  But what I was trying to get at was that each game has only one Chrono Trigger, and each is called the Chrono Trigger, as if each one were exclusive.  Plus, the drama with which Serge was called the Chrono Trigger can't help but make you wonder if there is a much deeper meaning than just a thing that is "able to change events in time".

I did notice that both Triggers are responsible for saving (or resurrecting) a life that had gone to the purgatory that is the Tesseract (I am assuming that is where Chrono went after being killed by Lavos, It's just the impression I got after playing Trigger again after I had played Cross).  
Also,  the triggers are the products of the work of the Gurus.  In CT it was Gaspar that procured the Trigger, and in CC it was Balthasar--albeit indirectly.

With all this, I just can't think that the term was thrown down arbitrarily.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 06, 2005, 09:02:55 pm »
I'm not sure if this has been brought up in any of the forums, or if my question has more to do with semantics than any real difference, but here it is:

In both Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, there is something referred to as the "Chrono Trigger".   The use of the has always led me to assume that the Trigger from CT and the Trigger from CC were in fact the same thing.  But in CT the Trigger is an object that allows you to bring Crono back;  in CC the Trigger is a person, namely Serge ("the servant" in Russian, which may mean something more).  
Are these Triggers in fact the same thing?  If they are, then Serge somehow had a hand in saving Chrono as well as Schala--it may actually be that Crono went to the same Tesseract as Schala if we look at it that way.  Although I suppose it could be that any device that is able to retrieve a person from the darkness of time is called the Chrono Trigger, although they are not in fact the same object.

Any thoughts?

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« on: March 29, 2005, 09:52:14 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
It originates from Middle-Eastern lore; it's like to bad aura or wind that blows when someone has died or is near death.

Makes sense, since Magus runs a very strong parallel with Muhamad.

Actually, after some research, I've found that the black wind "huayra yana" is mentioned in a prophecy in which the ground shakes greatly and threatens to swallow the earth.  The black wind acts as an omen of this destruction.  Sounds familiar, no?

(The prophecy is called "usul" by the way, and is very signifigant to the stuff going on in the Middle-East today)

Ah, almost forgot:  Muhammad was also born in 571 Ad, so the periods of Magus' life and Muhammad's life are quite close. (I think Magus was 26 in 600 AD, but I don't know exactly how old he was when he went in the portal.)

Quote from: ZeaLitY
He's erupting near Heckran Cave, which is in the center of the map.

Ah, wasn't quite sure about that one.   Thank's for checking.

I'm not quite sure but I also remember Lavos emerging in the north when he destroys the world in 1999.  And if you take a pretty liberal interpretation, Death Peak might be seen as another north reference, though it's not very strong.  Though it would make sense, since evil seems to take its throne in the north.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« on: March 27, 2005, 11:11:39 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
What are you talkin' about? Donnie was a superhero...

Also, if it were just Magus's mental state, would it also transfer to Schala?

What exactly are you talking about?  I never said anything about Schala.  

And although Donnie was symbolically a superhero (as is Magus if you hold Joseph Campbell's analysis to be plausible), he did have a different psychological aspect of reality, not necessarily a problem I guess.  
What I was trying to say was that most of the great "seers" of reknown were seen as schizo's or as psychologically disturbed, whether they really did have problems is of little importance.  All I'm saying is that Magus shares some similarities with Donnie, in that both seem (from the outside) to have problems, both have the ability to see the future, and both have great power.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« on: March 27, 2005, 04:41:43 pm »
Along the lines of Magus/Janus having psychological problems, the balck wind could be a projection of his psychological state (that may be amplified with his magic).  Sort of like Donnie Darko and the time spears.

The north is a frequently used theme in both CT and CC.  In CT  the Northern Ruins and the North Cape are places where good and evil seem to be ambiguous--both Magus and Cyrus seem to be both good and evil.  The Sun Keep is on an island that is furthest north. and Zeal is as far north (and up) as one can go.  
In CC the Porre Army and any mainlander come from the north to El Nido and cause all sorts of havoc.  Norris' name even means northerner in celtic (I think celtic).  
In Babylonian, Mithraic, Egyptian, and Christian traditions a common theme is that both the greatest evil as well as the greatest good both take their throne in the north.  People even pray facing north in some traditions, all the while knowing that the greatest evil is said to exist there.
Also,  the northern wind is frequently seen as evil.  Since it numbs the body with cold, it is thought to numb the spirit with evil.  The fact that Norris-- who's name means northener and who also comes from the north--is a member of the "black wind" lends further evidence to a connection. This could be a clue as to where the "black wind" has a real world reference, although I have only seen a few mentions of it in myth and dream analysies.
Anyone else who has noticed any other northern themes, feel free to jump in.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« on: March 27, 2005, 02:40:17 pm »
Direa has the same power to see the wind that surrounds people, although she doesn't call it "black" wind.  So the power seems to exist outside the Zeal family.

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?
« on: March 26, 2005, 06:50:17 pm »
Quote from: CTcronoboy

He didn't predict that Crono was going to die, just that one of them would have. That was purely from feeling the black wind, and also knowing its association with death.

It was still a prediction none the less, so I don't see why there is a questioning of his prophetic powers.

Pages: 1 [2] 3