Messages

46

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Zeal/Ocean Palace Paradox/Loose Ends?

« on: April 01, 2005, 04:08:33 pm »

Yeah, basically Marle's disappearance violates all the other laws of time travel established throughout the series.  That's why it's a plot hole.

I'm not saying it was unneccesary in driving the plot; in fact it was incredibly crucial for the reasons you pointed out CTcronoboy

47

Time, Space, and Dimensions / On The Axioms & Corollaries Of Temporal Transforms

« on: April 01, 2005, 10:23:35 am »

I think I'm getting it now.  Even though the new Janus is sent to the DBT, there will still be a new Magus because of slight changes and big ones like the rising of the Black Omen.  Because the Magus in your part obviously does not remember the Black Omen existing in 600 AD the new Magus had been sent to the DBT when Magus warped to 12,000 BC.

48

Time, Space, and Dimensions / On The Axioms & Corollaries Of Temporal Transforms

« on: March 31, 2005, 08:09:12 pm »

The new version of Magus will be sent to the DBT when the original warped to 12,000 BC, and so on.

This is the only part I'm not getting.  When was there a new Magus?  If the new Janus is sent to the DBT there won't be a new Magus, right?  Am I missinbg something here?

49

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Zeal/Ocean Palace Paradox/Loose Ends?

« on: March 31, 2005, 07:58:43 pm »

Marle's being sent to the DBT is basically a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the rest of the series.  Claiming the Entity spirited her away to force Crono to go find Leene is the best explanation to make the series consistent.  The Entity taking her away is not Squaresoft's idea, it's the Compendium's.

50

Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Minor comment...

« on: March 30, 2005, 12:52:28 pm »

Likewise I think Magus' HP when you fight him in his castle is 6666 (I know, one 6 too many...).

51

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Zeal/Ocean Palace Paradox/Loose Ends?

« on: March 28, 2005, 09:43:23 pm »

and what I'm about to say supports my Guile is Magus theory. Melchior, taking Janus with him gets transported to 1000 A.D. Janus grows up in Zenan and becomes Guile.

This simply can't be the case.  Time travelers are protected from the Grandfather Paradox, but everything else is overwritten by changes in the timeline.  Elements in the game reveal the Janus was again sent to 600AD (or actually many years before that, but you know what I'm saying), for after the new version of the Ocean Palace disaster, things have still transpired as if Janus was sent to the Middle Ages and became Magus.  Why would Ozzie remember him in the Ozzie's Fort sidequest if he had never been sent back?  Why is Cyrus still dead, and his sidequest called "A Knight Slain By Magus"?  Janus was preserved in the timeline as were the three gurus.

52

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Question: Lavos Complications

« on: March 26, 2005, 09:52:22 am »

Another thought would be that Schala stopped giving the Mammon Machine energy, turning her back on Queen Zeal. Gaspar and Belthasar would have protected Schala from the Queens wrath, Melchior throws in the knife, Masamune is created. The Mammon machine is destroyed, Lavos wakes up because he realises that something is going on and destroys Zeal.
From here on Schala either dies, teleports out to give the pendant onto someone else or is gated to the DBT anyway.

You basically got it right here.  That is what originally happened.  With Crono's meddling, he throws the knife instead of Melchior, Masamune is still created and Janus and the Gurus are still sucked into their Gates despite not being present in the Ocean Palace.  However, the changes are that Schala goes to the DTB (one of the catalysts for Chrono Cross), and Queen Zeal causes the Black Omen to rise.

53

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Melchior

« on: March 26, 2005, 09:45:04 am »

Yup. But the weirdest stuff about Melchior is what he says when you free him at Mt. Woe :

Indeed, I am Melchior.
   Have we...met before?

   More importantly, can you tell me
   anything about the Ocean Palace?

"Have we...met before?"... Why the heck does he ask that?

Because whoever is in your party shouts "Melchior!" with surprise at finding him on the Mountain of Woe.  When someone shouts your name and you don't recognize them, you might wonder if you've met them before but have just forgotten.

54

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Is Magus truly a Prophet?

« on: March 24, 2005, 01:13:24 pm »

You're overlooking the simplest solution. Magus simply remembered that they would be there. Remember, Janus confronts the party soon after they arrive in Zeal. Janus grows up to be Magus, and once Magus returns to Zeal, it wouldn't take to my time to get reoriented as to where he was in the timeline, based on his memories, and become a prophet. He even states that this was his strategy at North Cape.

Yeah, Magus would not remember Crono and the Party simply because they weren't there.  Sure, they then went back and slightly modified things but Magus would not remember this because as a Time Traveler he's protected from changes in the Timeline; he remembers only what originally happened.  Read the Article on Time Travel for more on this.

55

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis

« on: March 22, 2005, 12:40:52 pm »

as for the rise of Porre, we dont know enough about why or how it rose.  regardless, the its irrelavant to the future anyway.  How could Porre winning a war over Guardia effect Chronopolis from being constructed?

It is very important to the construction of Chronopolis.  For instance, in the saved future isn't there a Truce Dome, Medina Dome, etc?  Let's say Guardia is still intact by then.  It's a world ruled by Guardia that constructs Chronopolis.  It's like me going back in time and killing Bill Gates; Microsoft's future existence would be in jeopardy.

as for creating a paradox, i dont think time works quiet like that in the Chrono series.  For example, if time worked like that, then Chrono and co. would have never gone to the destroyed future, going instead to the saved one, and would therefore not get the incentive they needed to save the future, therefore creating a paradox.  it apparently do not work like that.  so paradoxes dont seem to be possible in the chrono series.

Then why are the Records of FATE installed if people living out there lives in any way they chose wouldn't pose problems to Chronopolis' existence?  I understand how Chrono Trigger escapes the Grandfather Paradox, but that doesn't negate the fact that FATE is very concerned about not affecting the mainland of Zenan.  Why is this unless it would jeopardize FATE's existence?
Also, isn't Chronopolis not really thrown back in the past; entering the Sea of Eden causes one to go 10,000 years in the future where Chronopolis is?  This was in one of the articles.  Thus modifying the past would endanger FATE and Chronopolis because this is different from the negated Grandfather Paradox.  Home World's Dead Sea is what happens when Chronopolis' existence is erased from history; wouldn't this also happen in Another World if the timeline is modified to the point that Chronopolis is never built?  I'm starting to ramble; someone please tell me if this makes sense.

56

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Question about the Rise of Porre and Chronopolis

« on: March 08, 2005, 02:46:43 pm »

Sorry if this has been answered a million times, but I think this is crucial to Chrono Cross' storyline.

Wouldn't the rise of Porre, Fall of Guardia, etc. cause a paradox for the existence of Chronopolis?  It appears from Trigger and Cross that Chronopolis comes from a future where Guardia does not fall and Porre is not a rival power.  But with Chronopolis being pulled back by the Time Crash, El Nido being formed, and Porre sailors finding El Nido and using its resources to become a power to rival Guardia, perhaps Chronopolis' future existence is jeopardized.  FATE seems to recognize this by keeping people from EL Nido from going to Zenan, but it doesn't stop people from Zenan going back and forth between Zenan and El Nido.

Chronopolis seems to ensure its own non-existence.  It is made in a future where Guardia wasn't crushed by Porre, but because of the Time Crash it inadvertantly causes Porre to rise to power with the discovery of El Nido and destroy Guardia, thus causing Chronopolis to never exist.  A Paradox of some sort I'm sure.

Can someone answer this, or am I way off base here?

57

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Questions about Lynx

« on: December 29, 2004, 11:52:59 am »

From what it sounds like, only Schala was freed and everything started over when the timeline was reordered. Wazuki was already Lynx before Serge even starts out on his adventure. Fate was still around too because Fate was responsible for what happened to Wazuki. Chronopolis was thrown back in time due to the time crash, and even with the timeline reordered, this would have still happened and Fate was in Chronopolis. I am also assuming that the timeline that was reordered was the the one where the events in Chrono Cross occurred.

But then wouldn't FATE/Lynx still be hunting Serge to swap bodies in order to gain entry to Chronopolis?  Seems like a loop more than an ending, unless FATE's goals and motivations were changed in the Ideal Timeline.

58

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Why does the Red Stone interact with Lavos so well?

« on: December 29, 2004, 11:48:08 am »

I also noticed something. Lavos absorbs the Planet's energy, Dreamstone absorbs Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet...Lavos draws the Planet's energy, Dreamstone draws Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet....notice a circle here?

Another thing to take into consideration. The Planet is the Entity right? Well, Dreamstone came from the Planet, which means it came from the Entity right? Well, the Entity is capable of dreaming, and the Red Rock, which is the Dreamstone, gave man (humanity) the ability to Love, Hate, and Dream. Notice how Love and Hate were born and the ability to Dream all came from that Red Rock (Dreamstone) that man (humanity) found that came from the Entity (the Planet) that is also able to dream and possibly Love and Hate? If that made any sense, which I hope it did, do you guys see any connections here?

Very good theories, especially the Lavos draining planet's energy which drains Lavos' energy through Dreamstone circle theory.