Messages

46

Magic, Elements, and Technology / An Elemental Model for Character Abilities

« on: February 16, 2005, 08:35:38 pm »

We don't know whether Ozzie dies at his own castle...he may have already had a kid.

Although he shows up at the Bend of Time in CC, but I don't think that proves he's still alive, since that place is screwy anyway.

47

History, Locations, and Artifacts / The Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 05:54:03 pm »

So if Masa and Mune have no control over the power of the sword then how come Frog doesn't succmb to the same fate as Radius or Dario?

That's what the test is for. The person can't pass the test unless they prove strong enough that they won't succumb to the sword. Plus, if the sword is corrupted because of the TD's influence, then the power within the sword isn't evil until after CT. Masa & Mune have no control over the power of the sword, but that doesn't mean they have no control over the sword itself. After defeating Dario, Masa & Mune choose Serge as the new wielder, thereby treating the Dario battle as a test for Serge.

I should point out that when I say power of the sword I mean Dreamstone/wielder combined power, I consider the Lavos energy within it separate from that. Masa & Mune have power over the Lavos energy in the sword, which isn't the true power, but since Masa & Mune seem to have been sleeping while the sword was evil, then they are not exactly doing their job of keeping the evil energy from corrupting people and testing those who would try to wield the sword. Slackers .

Radius and Dario both succumbed to the sword because they weren't strong enough to resist the evil in it; if Masa & Mune had been awake, then they wouldn't have been able to pick up the sword, since Masa & Mune would've tested them and they would have failed.

48

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 05:02:18 pm »

Lavos isn't using a magical defence shield like Magus is. Plus Lavos's power is of a much larger scale than Magus's.

49

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 04:30:17 pm »

Like Masa said--mind over matter. Hero's power comes from within. Frog wants to defeat Magus, he wants the sword to hurt Magus, so it does.

50

History, Locations, and Artifacts / The Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 04:07:02 pm »

Ah, ok, I see what you were saying. Sorry.

If you say that Frog beat all his demons before fighitng Magus, then why didn't Masa and Mune release the true power of the sword right then and there? It is kinda odd that they would wait that long to do it.

My point about the true power of the sword was that Masa & Mune don't have the ability to unlock the true power, only the wielder can unlock the true power. While Frog had his demons beaten before fighting Magus, he still felt guilty about Cyrus, even after defeating Magus, and didn't have peace of mind until speaking to Cyrus at the his grave. So, in quite the literary fashion, Frog is able to fully utilize the Masamune after finally getting to say good-bye to his mentor.

51

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 03:48:02 pm »

I am pretty sure the reason that Magus saw the sword being more powerful was because it was reforged with more dreamstone.

Now about that Non-Legend malarky

[Young Woman] Only the ancient sword, «Masamune,» can defeat him. And only the Hero can wield it!

[Young Man] Did you know? They say the mythical Masamune lies deep within the Denadoro mountains. But it's guarded by terrible beasts.

Frog: The legendary Masamune is required to fight Magus. And I've no right to wield it.

So it says the Masamune is legendary, but it doesn't say a specific legend about it. Hmm.

True, the Masamune was old, but Cyrus was able to beat Masa & Mune to get the sword, so it's safe to say he was a good swordsman. I don't think that the fight between Cyrus and Glenn vs. Magus and Ozzie would have been a pushover for Magus and Ozzie. Which would mean that Cyrus would have hit Magus with the Masamune at least once before it broke. If Magus was affected by the Masamune just because it was made of Dreamstone, then he would've known it could do that already. Instead, after defeating him in his castle, he is suprised. The sword was made of Dreamstone before it broke and after it was fixed. That is why Frog is the reason the Masamune worked so well on Magus.

Now, for the case of the Mammon Machine, I think that the Masamune absorbing it's energy is an innate ability of the Dreamstone. Think of it like this: You take two car batteries, one fully charged and one much less charged. You hook them up to each other and the fully charged one will, over time, lose power to the less charged one, until they both contain the same amount of energy. I think this is a great comparison, since both the Masamune and the Mammon Machine are made of Dreamstone. It's a simple case of equilibrium. Magus is obviously not made of Dreamstone, hence, the Masamune drains his energy for a completely different reason, which I stated a few posts ago.

52

History, Locations, and Artifacts / The Masamune

« on: February 16, 2005, 03:11:31 pm »

The only demon Frog had was self-doubt in his own abilities after losing Cyrus. There's nothing to indicate that Frog held a hatred for mystics that you're implying. We know he hates Magus and Ozzie, but even then he doesn't hate them blindly. Even when they're right in front of you he doesn't flip out with rage, does he? No, Frog remains calm.
Here we have Frog doubting his own abilities...

Frog: Thee hath returned?  Th, the hero Medal!  Aye... Then thou hast seen the lad.  Yet there's nary a thing I canst do against Magus.  The legendary Masamune is required to fight Magus.  And I've no right to wield it.  Please leave now...

Doesn't sound like he's blaming himself...

Frog: 10 years hath passed...  Can I do it?  I've changed so much.  Alas, poor Cyrus...!
Frog: Awake'th, Crono!  Though we may fail... Let us go to Magus's lair.  Thee knowest his power?

Sounds like he's blaming Magus for Cyrus's death(rightly so)...

Frog: Mine name is Glenn!  Cyrus's hopes and dreams... And now the Masamune...  Forthwith I shall slay Magus and restore honor!

Here's something to think about...

Frog: It's been ages, Sir Slush!
Slash: That's SLASH, you slimy dolt!  Still playing the comedian, eh Glenn? You'd be singing a different tune if Cyrus hadn't been there with you last time!  You'd have fit right in with those boney fellows you just busted up!

Frog: Magus!!
Magus: I... it's that stupid frog!  Kissed any princesses lately?!
Frog: I rather enjoy this form.  And I oweth it all to you!  
Frog: I have something for you!
Magus: Ah... The Masamune!!!  I bet you're just dying to use it!  The black wind begins to blow...  Okay... give me your best shot... If you're prepared for the void!

Unless cracking jokes at one's enemies is a sign of pure hatred, then I'd say Frog is lacking in personal demons from the Magic Cave onward. He even thanks Magus for his frog form.

Assuming you choose 'no' when given the choice to fight Magus or not...

Frog: Vanquishing thee will neither return Crono nor Cyrus.

If he hated Mystics and Magus as much as you say, then these events would not have happened this way.
And keep in mind these events all take place before the quest to lay Cyrus to rest.

Outside the Magic Cave...

Mine name is Glenn!  Cyrus's hopes and dreams...

At Cyrus's grave...

Cyrus, I promise to fulfill your wishes! 'Tis a sad farewell! Onward, all!

Frog overcomes his self-doubt at the Magic Cave--the reason the Masamune wasn't fully charged until Cyrus's grave was not Masa and Mune keeping it from him as you say, because even they didn't  know about the Masamune's true power until this point, as indicated here:

Mune: That's it! That was special!
Masa: Quite. I guess it means that a Hero's power comes from within.
Mune: Mucha metaphysical, man.
Masa: Like, MIND over matter, Mune!

When one already knows something, they do not say 'I guess'.
example- "I guess last year was 2004." "I guess I'm typing on my computer."
The words 'I guess' do not work that way.

Also, I don't think the evil energy could corrupt anybody until some time after Frog wielded the sword. If someone wasn't capable of wielding the sword, then they wouldn't be able to pass Masa & Mune's test. Of course, if Masa & Mune went to sleep after the destruction of Lavos, then there's no one there to give the test, and anyone, good or evil, could just take the sword.

53

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Reconciling the Frozen Flame as Dreamstone

« on: February 16, 2005, 01:59:01 pm »

Dreamstone =
1) absorb Lavos energy
2) used as money, which means at some point it may have been in abundance

Did reptites even use money? We dont know their currency system at all. We do know that Iokans used petals fangs horns and feathers, but they served a practical purpose in making items, so no currency system seems to have existed then.

We also know they accepted what the group used for currency, so it was probably based on some sort of barter system. I don't know how or why teh Dreamstone would have began to dissapear before they meet Ayla.

That's why it's more likely that Dreamstone was used as currency some time after Lavos landed but some time before Zeal, either the people developed mining, or the planet made more Dreamstone and got it to the surface.

54

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 15, 2005, 11:50:31 pm »

I've recently come to believe that Magus's weakness to the Masamune and the Mammon Machine's weakness to it are for different reasons.

That's why I said that I don't think the Masamune is absorbing energy from the two for the same reasons.

55

History, Locations, and Artifacts / The Masamune

« on: February 15, 2005, 11:45:35 pm »

This is my theory about the Demonic Masamune:

MELCHIOR: This weapon represents
   considerable power...
   Your actions may either save or
   destroy life.

   Wield your sword with full
   knowledge of the consequences!

The evil sword we see in Chrono Cross is not the Masamune which Frog weilded in the past.  I really think that the Masamune is uncorruptable.  Masa and Mune choose who is allowed to carry the sword.

Hmm, I think it's the same sword Frog used, with one difference: Masa and Mune seem to have been sleeping while the sword is demonic, or at least unconscience. When the Masamune un"demonizes":

Mune: Huaaah... You awake, Masa?
Masa: Yeah... But looking back... I think we've done something terrible.
Mune: Heh heh... No one will know if we don't tell.
Doreen: HEY! What were you two up to!?
Masa: Yikes! It's Doreen!
Mune: N-Nothing! We don't remember a thing!
Doreen: Hmmm, I see... Well, just to make sure you're not up to any mischief... I'm coming along.
Masa: Alright! How many centuries has it been since the 3 of us got together!?
Doreen: OK then, let's go!

If Masa & Mune were sleeping while the sword was demonic, then the possibility of Lavos energy that was absorbed into it or a TD link is unchecked in the sword. Anyone weak of mind who tried to wield it would succumb to it like Radius and Dario did. Also, the Masamune seems to be powered by the spirit of the wielder:

Frog: The Masamune?!
Masa: Heh heh.
Mune: That's it!  That was special!
Masa: Quite.  I guess it means that a Hero's power comes from within.
Mune: Mucha metaphysical, man.
Masa: Like, MIND over matter, Mune!
Frog: My... mind?
Mune: Now for a yummy, full-on test!
Masa: It's thrasin' time!
Frog: 'Tis flowing with strength and vigor.  Ahh!  'Tis the true identity of
the Masamune!!  Cyrus, I promise to fulfill your wishes!  'Tis a sad
farewell!  Onward, all!

So with Masa & Mune asleep or unconscience within the sword, and the Lavos energy or TD link running through the sword unchecked, only someone with a strong spirit, to wield the Masamune, a pure heart, to resist the current evil within the sword, and the power to defeat the current wielder could wake up Masa & Mune and un-demonize the sword.

56

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Found! Power Spots are confirmed!

« on: February 15, 2005, 11:18:19 pm »

But we never see any signs of Elements forming naturally. Nor does anyone mention them forming naturally. For example, in FF7(which seems to be the most-often-referred-to-parallel) there's materia formed by man in reactors, and then there's materia formed by nature found in hidden caves and such around the world.  We don't find Elements growing in a cave anywhere. They're found in chests and from monsters and such.

57

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 15, 2005, 10:51:44 pm »

Just found further support of Frog's will powering the Masamune.
When laying Cyrus's spirit to rest, and the Masamune powers up...

Masa: Heh heh.
Mune: That's it! That was special!
Masa: Quite. I guess it means that a Hero's power comes from within.
Mune: Mucha metaphysical, man.
Masa: Like, MIND over matter, Mune!
Frog: My... mind?
Mune: Now for a yummy, full-on test!
Masa: It's thrasin' time!
Frog: 'Tis flowing with strength and vigor. Ahh! 'Tis the true identity of the Masamune!! Cyrus, I promise to fulfill your wishes! 'Tis a sad farewell! Onward, all!

Notice they are saying Frog's power with the Masamune comes from within him. Mind over matter. The true identity of the Masamune.

58

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Magus's Weakness to the Masamune

« on: February 15, 2005, 10:36:19 pm »

I've recently come to believe that Magus's weakness to the Masamune and the Mammon Machine's weakness to it are for different reasons.

Outside the Magic Cave...

Frog: Mine name is Glenn!  Cyrus's hopes and dreams... And now the Masamune...  Forthwith I shall slay Magus and restore honor!

After defeating Magus in his castle...

Magus: W.. what have you done to the Masamune...?

Magus seems to be quite shocked that the Masamune is hurting him so. The Masamune didn't seem to help Cyrus and Glenn 10 years earlier when Cyrus was killed.  This implies that the Masamune was powered by Frog's will, otherwise it would have worked when wielded by Cyrus. This could be an example of the Dreamstone being utilized in a way not Lavos-related, since it was Frog's dream to defeat Magus and thus avenge Cyrus.

59

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Reconciling the Frozen Flame as Dreamstone

« on: February 15, 2005, 10:14:23 pm »

Found Ayla talking about the Dreamstone:

Ayla: Crono, you look for red rock?  Rare, red rock sign of power.  Ayla strongest in Ioka village.  So Ayla's rock!  You want, you challenge Ayla! You win, then Ayla give to you.

Dreamstone wasn't used as currency in 65,000,000 BC.

60

Magic, Elements, and Technology / An Elemental Model for Character Abilities

« on: February 15, 2005, 07:32:55 pm »

But the Black Wind is only mentioned in CT when there's a really good chance of someone (or many someones, in the case of Zeal) dying. In CC, Serge is technically already dead in Another World.