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1021
Project ZEAL / The World of ZEAL/Keystone
« on: October 19, 2004, 07:45:38 pm »
Mmm...Banishment.
Reaching absolute zero in our universe is a physical impossibility because of Maxwell's Demon aka the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which dictates that energy moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations -- it is, after all, basically the vibration and movements of molecules. If you kick a soccer ball into a stationary soccer ball, the momentum will balance out. Therefore, a spell that actually has a target reach absolute zero would have to travel to a place imbued with a complete lack of energy -- some kind of dimensional limbo. In essence, they would be cast off into their own miniature universe. Now, you could go to all the trouble of learning how to do that...or you could pick up a heavy blaster cannon and fry their ass. Which one's more convenient?
Actually, the cannon isn't always. If you need to focus your attack on one particular target, such as in a situation where, say, you're right next to a nuclear reactor and your big gun could accidentally hit it and blow both them and you sky-high, you don't want something that's "as clumsy or random as a blaster." Cold attacks of the nature depicted in Chrono universe magic would require extraplanar phenomena to occur to sap energy from a target and direct it somewhere where it would not normally go, but the same sorts of phenomena would have to occur in order for energy to concentrate in an unusual manner at the expense of everything else in the vicinity, as it does in fire attacks. Indeed, unexplainable phenomena are responsible for people being able to do this stuff in the first place. We know from Chrono Cross that even if the Law of Conservation of Energy holds true at every possible level, the Chrono omniverse does not require that each universe within its structure is a closed system unto itself -- the omniverse collectively would be a closed system. Energy could perhaps be directed into another plane of existence, or a sub-universe similar to subspace.
The sun's temperature is over 10,000 degrees Kelvin, due to the high-energy molecular reactions required to sustain the functionality of the flaming plasmatic mass it's composed of. So, yeah, I'd believe that.
I tend to favor the CC system of Fire, Cold, Earth, Wind, Shadow, Holy, and the Chrono Cross, which has yet to be truly named or even classified. (Note the Cold moniker for blue attacks -- it encompasses both ice and water, and it just works for me somehow. Ah, well) Within this system, the first four can be semi-rationalized -- the universe's laws still hold, despite the unnatural mechanisms used to employ its energy, but nearly every facet of the latter two (three, really, but the Cross, as I said, hasn't been properly explained in terms of what energies it employs) seems to scream out "Physics can bite my ass!!" Sending enemies to hell, removing their souls from their bodies, exploding stars and only hurting the bad guys, creating singularities that don't destroy the planet, summoning armies of angels whose blasts heal the party but damage the aggressor, calling asteroids down from space without killing everything within a hundred miles...uhhh, yeah, those are really shining examples of adhering to physics.
[sarcastic face]
But seriously, that's kind of the point -- being able to transcend to the highest level of existence and manipulate the mind and the laws of the universe itself. According to Schala, the universe itself is sentient and therefore can control some of the mechanisms of its makeup, as can all sentient beings. It has its own natural growth, as well, that it would not disturb. Effectively, magic of a physics-defying caliber is the very mind of God.
Question: Are Leebot's lists the official ones, or just ideas? I'm guessing that Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Shadow are the elemental innate spells, and that there are other categories such as temporal spells, necromancy, etc. I haven't had time to really read this -- I've been in St. Louis for the past four days at a band contest.
Reaching absolute zero in our universe is a physical impossibility because of Maxwell's Demon aka the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which dictates that energy moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations -- it is, after all, basically the vibration and movements of molecules. If you kick a soccer ball into a stationary soccer ball, the momentum will balance out. Therefore, a spell that actually has a target reach absolute zero would have to travel to a place imbued with a complete lack of energy -- some kind of dimensional limbo. In essence, they would be cast off into their own miniature universe. Now, you could go to all the trouble of learning how to do that...or you could pick up a heavy blaster cannon and fry their ass. Which one's more convenient?
Actually, the cannon isn't always. If you need to focus your attack on one particular target, such as in a situation where, say, you're right next to a nuclear reactor and your big gun could accidentally hit it and blow both them and you sky-high, you don't want something that's "as clumsy or random as a blaster." Cold attacks of the nature depicted in Chrono universe magic would require extraplanar phenomena to occur to sap energy from a target and direct it somewhere where it would not normally go, but the same sorts of phenomena would have to occur in order for energy to concentrate in an unusual manner at the expense of everything else in the vicinity, as it does in fire attacks. Indeed, unexplainable phenomena are responsible for people being able to do this stuff in the first place. We know from Chrono Cross that even if the Law of Conservation of Energy holds true at every possible level, the Chrono omniverse does not require that each universe within its structure is a closed system unto itself -- the omniverse collectively would be a closed system. Energy could perhaps be directed into another plane of existence, or a sub-universe similar to subspace.
The sun's temperature is over 10,000 degrees Kelvin, due to the high-energy molecular reactions required to sustain the functionality of the flaming plasmatic mass it's composed of. So, yeah, I'd believe that.
I tend to favor the CC system of Fire, Cold, Earth, Wind, Shadow, Holy, and the Chrono Cross, which has yet to be truly named or even classified. (Note the Cold moniker for blue attacks -- it encompasses both ice and water, and it just works for me somehow. Ah, well) Within this system, the first four can be semi-rationalized -- the universe's laws still hold, despite the unnatural mechanisms used to employ its energy, but nearly every facet of the latter two (three, really, but the Cross, as I said, hasn't been properly explained in terms of what energies it employs) seems to scream out "Physics can bite my ass!!" Sending enemies to hell, removing their souls from their bodies, exploding stars and only hurting the bad guys, creating singularities that don't destroy the planet, summoning armies of angels whose blasts heal the party but damage the aggressor, calling asteroids down from space without killing everything within a hundred miles...uhhh, yeah, those are really shining examples of adhering to physics.
[sarcastic face]
But seriously, that's kind of the point -- being able to transcend to the highest level of existence and manipulate the mind and the laws of the universe itself. According to Schala, the universe itself is sentient and therefore can control some of the mechanisms of its makeup, as can all sentient beings. It has its own natural growth, as well, that it would not disturb. Effectively, magic of a physics-defying caliber is the very mind of God.
Question: Are Leebot's lists the official ones, or just ideas? I'm guessing that Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Shadow are the elemental innate spells, and that there are other categories such as temporal spells, necromancy, etc. I haven't had time to really read this -- I've been in St. Louis for the past four days at a band contest.
1022
Project ZEAL / The World of ZEAL/Keystone
« on: October 14, 2004, 10:27:37 pm »
I still tend to hold Janus in higher esteem -- I'd trust Melchior a lot more than some Zealian jerk. He probably was a product of his circumstances, though. However, I still believe that Janus could master any magical technique invented by ZEAL, as his research is likely at the root of them. He's not in the story, though, so that's pure speculation on my part.
For example, my writing -- before eighth grade, I didn't have a damn clue how to write anything. Ever. And then that year comes, and all of a sudden that's what I want to do for a passion. My entire class made promise to write, no matter what else I do. The talent (or what I hope is talent) sprouted late, but it's turned out quite amazingly both as simple writing and for a career as a physicist, just going by what I've been told by the people who read my stuff and give me my grades.
Janus was definitely a late bloomer, but who cares? He could still set this whole county on fire.
As for the levels, potential is still there for any character class, but I'm still not sure where Lavos, FATE, and the Dragon God fit. Does the level you can reach depend on innate potential? I suppose that because of 13,000 years of extra magical genes, the ZEAL residents would have more magical potential than the average human, but in the Keystone timeline, allowing for the destruction of Ayla's tribe and the accepted evolutionary record, not to mention the lore about the Frozen Flame, it took us a few million years to get to where we are now in terms of potential -- a mere 13,000 isn't going to make that much of a difference, unless Lavos' presence is a lot more powerful than we thought.
And the yelling thing...just...no. Chanting, yes. But yelling, despite the obvious similarity in character design, is too DBZ-ish.
For example, my writing -- before eighth grade, I didn't have a damn clue how to write anything. Ever. And then that year comes, and all of a sudden that's what I want to do for a passion. My entire class made promise to write, no matter what else I do. The talent (or what I hope is talent) sprouted late, but it's turned out quite amazingly both as simple writing and for a career as a physicist, just going by what I've been told by the people who read my stuff and give me my grades.
Janus was definitely a late bloomer, but who cares? He could still set this whole county on fire.
As for the levels, potential is still there for any character class, but I'm still not sure where Lavos, FATE, and the Dragon God fit. Does the level you can reach depend on innate potential? I suppose that because of 13,000 years of extra magical genes, the ZEAL residents would have more magical potential than the average human, but in the Keystone timeline, allowing for the destruction of Ayla's tribe and the accepted evolutionary record, not to mention the lore about the Frozen Flame, it took us a few million years to get to where we are now in terms of potential -- a mere 13,000 isn't going to make that much of a difference, unless Lavos' presence is a lot more powerful than we thought.
And the yelling thing...just...no. Chanting, yes. But yelling, despite the obvious similarity in character design, is too DBZ-ish.
1023
Project ZEAL / The World of ZEAL/Keystone
« on: October 13, 2004, 10:42:46 pm »
I'm just used to the whole level thing -- I need a reference point with something I'm familiar with. The problem with imagining it in terms of levels, though, is that both games have a level cap.
But I'm guessing that there is potential for growth, even in Crono's party -- Janus, for example, probably has the potential to master even the most powerful of ZEAL's sorceries...too bad he's not alive anymore to do so, at least not bodily.
It's been made rather clear what King and Queen Zeal did, but what about the ZEAL dimension's Janus and Schala? They were both extraordinarily powerful, and this would lead me to surmise that they have some major part in either ZEAL's history or myths.
But I'm guessing that there is potential for growth, even in Crono's party -- Janus, for example, probably has the potential to master even the most powerful of ZEAL's sorceries...too bad he's not alive anymore to do so, at least not bodily.
It's been made rather clear what King and Queen Zeal did, but what about the ZEAL dimension's Janus and Schala? They were both extraordinarily powerful, and this would lead me to surmise that they have some major part in either ZEAL's history or myths.
1024
Project ZEAL / The World of ZEAL/Keystone
« on: October 13, 2004, 12:45:47 am »
Couple of questions I asked on Chronicles, but could probably be answered a bit more specifically here:
According to all I've heard and read, and my own personal experience, level growth in the range of 50 is sufficient to defeat Lavos, though only in a fight of attrition -- but no matter how it is done, accomplishing such a feat would indeed make someone legendary. However, there's still half the growth to be done -- much more than half, truthfully, because stat growth per level is based on a non-linear mathematical function where the character's level X and the stat Y are interrelated, with positive modifiers added to the Y-intercept of the function's graph for stat-enhancing items. I'm not precisely sure what the equation is, but it damn sure isn't a line.
The equation runs something like this:
......... 4/5
y = x + 5
Thusly, my level 70-something CT party has the "max" 999, instead of in the area of 700 health. If we're using this as our base level for the Legendary Keystonian Hero title, then we still have a little under halfway to go before we reach the Council's level.
One of these days, perhaps when marching band is finished, I'm going to go back and play through again and again until every character is at level 99. But I digress.
Are we operating under the assumption that the CT characters never reached 99, due to the extraordinary amount of time required to achieve it, and the fact that realistically, the enemies wouldn't regenerate just so you could get more EXP off of them? Going through the game once and killing every enemy along the way gets you to about 50. If this is so, then even they have potential for growth -- and apparently, so does Lavos.
Question two: just for reference, where do Lavos, FATE, and the Dragon God fall in this scale?
According to all I've heard and read, and my own personal experience, level growth in the range of 50 is sufficient to defeat Lavos, though only in a fight of attrition -- but no matter how it is done, accomplishing such a feat would indeed make someone legendary. However, there's still half the growth to be done -- much more than half, truthfully, because stat growth per level is based on a non-linear mathematical function where the character's level X and the stat Y are interrelated, with positive modifiers added to the Y-intercept of the function's graph for stat-enhancing items. I'm not precisely sure what the equation is, but it damn sure isn't a line.
The equation runs something like this:
......... 4/5
y = x + 5
Thusly, my level 70-something CT party has the "max" 999, instead of in the area of 700 health. If we're using this as our base level for the Legendary Keystonian Hero title, then we still have a little under halfway to go before we reach the Council's level.
One of these days, perhaps when marching band is finished, I'm going to go back and play through again and again until every character is at level 99. But I digress.
Are we operating under the assumption that the CT characters never reached 99, due to the extraordinary amount of time required to achieve it, and the fact that realistically, the enemies wouldn't regenerate just so you could get more EXP off of them? Going through the game once and killing every enemy along the way gets you to about 50. If this is so, then even they have potential for growth -- and apparently, so does Lavos.
Question two: just for reference, where do Lavos, FATE, and the Dragon God fall in this scale?
1025
Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic in CT and CC
« on: October 12, 2004, 09:54:16 pm »
I also think of magic somewhat like the Force -- though only in the sense that it is a universal energy field, or perhaps a quantum domain underlying all physical processes, including the creation of our universe and its current laws of physics, that is connected to another, higher dimension.
The Force itself is rather complicated, seeing as several new theories have been introduced regarding its usage and purpose by the people who write the books. Most are simply good reads, and a few are bad, but several books and book series within SW expanded universe continuity are truly exceptional. I could go into a giant spiel about EU continuity, but suffice it to say that such a discussion of Chrono's magic as the Force could go into some very complicated territory.
The Force itself is rather complicated, seeing as several new theories have been introduced regarding its usage and purpose by the people who write the books. Most are simply good reads, and a few are bad, but several books and book series within SW expanded universe continuity are truly exceptional. I could go into a giant spiel about EU continuity, but suffice it to say that such a discussion of Chrono's magic as the Force could go into some very complicated territory.
1026
Project ZEAL / Character Sketches.
« on: October 12, 2004, 09:32:58 pm »Quote from: V_Translanka
That's right, Hadriel, you pimp your shit...
I prefer English rather than ebonics on subjects of any seriousness...foo.
1027
Project ZEAL / Character Sketches.
« on: October 12, 2004, 12:33:21 am »
Yeah, you're probably right. It'd be an extra thing to deal with, it kind of takes away from focus on the game history, and it would likely distract from character development. You could still probably fit everything in if you wanted to, except if ZEAL succeeds in permanently wrecking Keystone, so the only real concern is stopping ZEAL's corrupt government one way or another.
Scratch the archaeologist -- I can use that idea as comedy cannon fodder in the other fic I'm working on, since in that case I'm going for as much historical realism as possible, since it's virtually required for the story to make any damn sense. Ironically, it's a humor/satire fic that treats our world as presented in South Park as if it is one with the CT world. It presents several new time paradoxes a la Chrono Cross, and of course takes every possible opportunity to make fun of absolutely everything and everyone.
For now, I'll simply develop upon the Zealian kid.
Scratch the archaeologist -- I can use that idea as comedy cannon fodder in the other fic I'm working on, since in that case I'm going for as much historical realism as possible, since it's virtually required for the story to make any damn sense. Ironically, it's a humor/satire fic that treats our world as presented in South Park as if it is one with the CT world. It presents several new time paradoxes a la Chrono Cross, and of course takes every possible opportunity to make fun of absolutely everything and everyone.
For now, I'll simply develop upon the Zealian kid.
1028
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / WORST. MASAMUNE. THEORY. EVER.
« on: October 11, 2004, 10:08:00 pm »
Such a thing brings disgrace upon Zelda fans everywhere.
1029
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / WORST. MASAMUNE. THEORY. EVER.
« on: October 11, 2004, 10:05:07 pm »
Yes, I recall reading that -- I believe it was on GameFAQs.
I think my IQ just dropped a few points.
I think my IQ just dropped a few points.
1030
Project ZEAL / Character Sketches.
« on: October 11, 2004, 08:28:46 pm »
Tinkering is always good. I do a fair bit of it to make my independent stories and papers better.
My idea was that the two histories are largely the same, but that none of the history that we know in our world matters to the storyline of ZEAL, and so it wouldn't get more than a passing mention, perhaps as research done on the character's resume. In fact, if you work it right, all of the history we know can fit into a framework where it is a direct result of the Chrono Trigger history, mostly in relation to Lavos. Therefore, either way, anything outside of the Chrono history outlined in the games is of little to no importance where Keystone is concerned in the ZEAL story. Under such a framework, the very existence of the entire world that we know is the result of the events in the Chrono series -- the landing of Lavos, the destruction of Zeal, the war between Guardia and Porre, and the heroism of Crono and his friends in stopping Lavos from destroying Earth as we know it. I believe I could write something pretty compelling with that -- to a student of history such as an archaeologist, knowing the events of the Chrono series under a real-world framework would be like having his entire concept of truth pulled out from under him by the echoes of Lavos' influence on humanity. He would no longer be certain which way to go, and therefore initiate a literary transformation into one of several different types of characters which can affect the story in their own ways.
Or perhaps I have an irrational craving for realism...maybe it's the physicist in me.
I'd thought that ZEAL had properly subjugated Lavos and was currently using him for power via the Mammon Machine, which is a great deal more advanced and powerful in the ZEAL timeline than it was in Keystone, due to many extra years of time to develop its functionality before they decided to hook it up to Lavos. If that's the case, Lavos, or at least whatever Pocket Dimension houses Lavos, is connected to the Mammon Machine.
My idea was that the two histories are largely the same, but that none of the history that we know in our world matters to the storyline of ZEAL, and so it wouldn't get more than a passing mention, perhaps as research done on the character's resume. In fact, if you work it right, all of the history we know can fit into a framework where it is a direct result of the Chrono Trigger history, mostly in relation to Lavos. Therefore, either way, anything outside of the Chrono history outlined in the games is of little to no importance where Keystone is concerned in the ZEAL story. Under such a framework, the very existence of the entire world that we know is the result of the events in the Chrono series -- the landing of Lavos, the destruction of Zeal, the war between Guardia and Porre, and the heroism of Crono and his friends in stopping Lavos from destroying Earth as we know it. I believe I could write something pretty compelling with that -- to a student of history such as an archaeologist, knowing the events of the Chrono series under a real-world framework would be like having his entire concept of truth pulled out from under him by the echoes of Lavos' influence on humanity. He would no longer be certain which way to go, and therefore initiate a literary transformation into one of several different types of characters which can affect the story in their own ways.
Or perhaps I have an irrational craving for realism...maybe it's the physicist in me.
I'd thought that ZEAL had properly subjugated Lavos and was currently using him for power via the Mammon Machine, which is a great deal more advanced and powerful in the ZEAL timeline than it was in Keystone, due to many extra years of time to develop its functionality before they decided to hook it up to Lavos. If that's the case, Lavos, or at least whatever Pocket Dimension houses Lavos, is connected to the Mammon Machine.
1031
Project ZEAL / Character Sketches.
« on: October 11, 2004, 12:07:21 am »
I think I've got a couple of ideas for characters -- I think I'll get a feel for the story a bit more before jumping in, but I think I'll post the general descriptions right now. One of them, however, I'm not sure would work -- he's a hardheaded Princeton University archaeologist of the year 2180 AD, and as such, obviously from Keystone. He doesn't care about his methods -- think of him as something of a slightly less sadistic Belloq from the first Indiana Jones movie. In that vein, he's quite similar to the ZEAL researchers, and errs more on the side of evil and what knowledge, and thus, power, he stands to gain from the defeat of ZEAL. But he does have a bit of a conscience, and this quest might give him the opportunity to reclaim it. I was wondering if it mattered if I used a real-world location for his school. In the grand scheme of things, I'd think it wouldn't make that much of a difference, but it's the admins' call.
The other one is a little younger than Serge was in CC, and is the son of one of ZEAL's top Nanashi supervisors. He doesn't really have any ideals or anything yet -- for the most part, he's a victim of ZEAL's brainwashing. But, a chance encounter with the dormant Lavos would provide the trigger for Gaspar to summon him. As Lavos has been subjugated in ZEAL, he is not directly the reason for Gaspar's intervention, and does absolutely nothing short of just sitting there and triggering weirdness because of his natural aura of evilly EVIL. Basically, he accidentally goes to the End of Time because he wondered what the big red button did.
Thoughts?
The other one is a little younger than Serge was in CC, and is the son of one of ZEAL's top Nanashi supervisors. He doesn't really have any ideals or anything yet -- for the most part, he's a victim of ZEAL's brainwashing. But, a chance encounter with the dormant Lavos would provide the trigger for Gaspar to summon him. As Lavos has been subjugated in ZEAL, he is not directly the reason for Gaspar's intervention, and does absolutely nothing short of just sitting there and triggering weirdness because of his natural aura of evilly EVIL. Basically, he accidentally goes to the End of Time because he wondered what the big red button did.
Thoughts?
1032
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Reconciling the Frozen Flame as Dreamstone
« on: October 10, 2004, 11:37:05 pm »
What boggles my mind is why anyone would use such an obviously powerful substance as currency. It's like going to the nearest 7-11 and paying for a Snickers in plutonium.
1033
Project ZEAL / Roll Call
« on: October 10, 2004, 11:30:31 pm »
Got in kind of late, but I'm here. I have a huge workload right now, with school and all, but this is one of the few things that I've seen, fandom-wise, that really sparks my interest. I have high hopes for this project.
That said, let's make it hot.
That said, let's make it hot.
1034
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Reconciling the Frozen Flame as Dreamstone
« on: October 10, 2004, 10:21:51 pm »
I suggested this on the Chronicles forums -- maybe Dreamstone isn't unique to Earth. Hydrogen certainly isn't, and neither are probably any of the other elements we've discovered.
Of course, we don't visit any other planets besides Earth, at least not thus far. But as Dreamstone is a very powerful material, there were laws governing its usage in Zeal, which is why not just anyone could wield a Dreamstone weapon, and certainly not the legendary, almost uber-powerful Masamune. When 600 AD's Glenn got it, he'd never seen an alien. Not so with Serge. He had an alien in his party who, if the material is half as remarkable as we humans think it is, should have been able to identify it.
Of course, we don't visit any other planets besides Earth, at least not thus far. But as Dreamstone is a very powerful material, there were laws governing its usage in Zeal, which is why not just anyone could wield a Dreamstone weapon, and certainly not the legendary, almost uber-powerful Masamune. When 600 AD's Glenn got it, he'd never seen an alien. Not so with Serge. He had an alien in his party who, if the material is half as remarkable as we humans think it is, should have been able to identify it.