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16
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« on: August 17, 2012, 12:26:24 am »Quote
Well, in truth, a lot of people want a 3rd game because they love the direction taken by Cross. The creators of this site are among them. It's just people like you, me, and Grace that desire the events of CC to be undone.
Well in a way, CC probably has undone itself. As we don't know the details, or even possibilities, of what the merge of the "timeline" does, its very possible so much has been repaired, there isn't a need for the Crash, El Nido, etc. In hindsight, even though CC is more 'epic' in scale to RD, it still has the general core to me that feels like its just playing with possibilities and no real 'absolutes'. I've mentioned in previous threads thats one of the things that bugged me about CC is that it has a similar feel to various "didn't really happen' episodes in series like Star Trek: Voyager.
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It's what I've tried to explain to many CC fans who don't get the gravity of that point. There's no law stipulating that creators give the heroes of their stories a happy ending - true. And yet over 90% of writers do. "Why is that?" I ask them. Because if fans spend a long time growing to like and care about characters, they want them to have happy endings
Well happy endings can be nice, but I think fans want 'qualified endings' more, and its not like the CT cast got that either. Though the presentation of effects of CC could just be the difference between western and eastern style story-telling.
[/quote] Frankly, I don't think canon Chrono is salvageable at this point. If the series was conceived from the start with a beginning, middle, and end, things would be much more solid. [/quote]
Well I do think there are several directions that "Chrono" could go: using RD and CC as a basis, minigames/portibles, dlc series could be made that just play around with short-story 'possiblities' within the same universe. A small series can be used to play around, tease interest, and lead up into a "big finale' kinda game, or rather just something that rekindles the series as a whole. Kinda like how Kingdom Hearts has more than 3 games, but only 3 major parts, which people are still in anticipation.
Probably the most 'salvageable' perspective I find between all the games is to assume that the third game would reveal that the attack of Lavos on that planet specifically was deliberate, that the consequence of the 'Time devourer' was exaggerated, but its creation was also, essentially deliberate.
The series could continue to be self-contained to that planet, and its altering timelines, or get grander in scale in space ventures and into multi-faceted timelines; such faceting could have an incredible effect on the multi-ending tradition, though planning such an endeavor could be tremendous.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Sea Slug that looks like Frozen Flame
« on: July 04, 2012, 04:12:28 am »
That looks like a R.O.U.S to me O_O
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« on: July 04, 2012, 04:10:52 am »
I know I've not come off as agreeable or diplomatic or whatnot in some of my previous posts over the years, but I do agree in some of the notion that CC could stand off on its own; the task isn't as daunting imo as it might seem. For one, most of the "changes" "oversights" "loose ends" and events the build up to make up Cross are contained within cross as is. So one of the simplest changes would be to just change some of the names of places, events, people. There isn't a frozen flame, arbiters, Kid, Time Devourer, Chronopolis and draconians in CT. All these new concepts and such can simply have been relabeled to not necessarily tie directly back to CT, but rather be like a parallel of events in a similar world-set. Esp since most of the heavy connections get shot out in exposition toward the end of the game anyway; just rewrite some of the text to be better self-contained.
Plus I think back when CC was being made (and it was more of a revised Radical Dreamers) it was only meant to come off as a possibility of events and not so much a direct sequel of consequences that it seems to have become with each rerelease of games from the Chrono-verse.
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As far as other game/sequel possibilities go, I think there's quite a number of other ends to explore, or event create; esp since alot of CC is "loose-end" fabrication.
1) Schala might not end up at the DBT at all. After Crono's death, she's there with the pendant that he was wearing in the ocean palace. That gives here the option to leave herself.
2) Dalton. Yea, I'm not big on Dalton necessarily being a 'finale' villain, but he can still create conflicts that create a chain of reactions. Dalton was all for the whole Lavos-immortality gig that Queen Zeal was pushing, but I don't think he was present to see the extent of consequences that arose from Lavos; He could still be all gung-ho for that kind of power. If he finds himself in the path of gates or other time-travel means, Dalton could be trying to unravel the changes that lead to the defeat of Lavos. Or simply use his technological and magical prowess to plant himself in a position of authority in another era.
I had thought up a scenario that he teamed up with a Yakra plot to try and create dissension in Guardia.
3) The past/origins of Lavos. It came from somewhere, and it can breed. So that's not conjuring something crazy to say there are other Lavos-like threats elsewhere, or things that can exist in a similar manner. I'd have thought it to be particularly interesting if another game took a multi-generational approach to epic conflicts. That is, that the scope of the quest lasts longer than the life-spans of the initial protagonists; when you factor in time-travel though, you could be combining generations of heroes all in the same team. Could get really crazy on game-play by using breeding features either like pokemon or Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu.
Game sequels don't necessarily need 'loose ends' to have a base to create a new game. There are patterns to story telling parts that are becoming all-to-common these games. The most prevalent is the three-act story telling. So if you plug in Trigger as introductory, Cross as rising tension, there are things to be combined together to wrap up act 3.
Though personally, I don't think the Chrono-verse should shoot for a big new Episode 3 kinda game, but rather mini-games that just explore the 'possibilities' kinda approach of RD. Stuff like a core 'collection' with more stories/add-ons as DLC kinda content.
Plus I think back when CC was being made (and it was more of a revised Radical Dreamers) it was only meant to come off as a possibility of events and not so much a direct sequel of consequences that it seems to have become with each rerelease of games from the Chrono-verse.
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As far as other game/sequel possibilities go, I think there's quite a number of other ends to explore, or event create; esp since alot of CC is "loose-end" fabrication.
1) Schala might not end up at the DBT at all. After Crono's death, she's there with the pendant that he was wearing in the ocean palace. That gives here the option to leave herself.
2) Dalton. Yea, I'm not big on Dalton necessarily being a 'finale' villain, but he can still create conflicts that create a chain of reactions. Dalton was all for the whole Lavos-immortality gig that Queen Zeal was pushing, but I don't think he was present to see the extent of consequences that arose from Lavos; He could still be all gung-ho for that kind of power. If he finds himself in the path of gates or other time-travel means, Dalton could be trying to unravel the changes that lead to the defeat of Lavos. Or simply use his technological and magical prowess to plant himself in a position of authority in another era.
I had thought up a scenario that he teamed up with a Yakra plot to try and create dissension in Guardia.
3) The past/origins of Lavos. It came from somewhere, and it can breed. So that's not conjuring something crazy to say there are other Lavos-like threats elsewhere, or things that can exist in a similar manner. I'd have thought it to be particularly interesting if another game took a multi-generational approach to epic conflicts. That is, that the scope of the quest lasts longer than the life-spans of the initial protagonists; when you factor in time-travel though, you could be combining generations of heroes all in the same team. Could get really crazy on game-play by using breeding features either like pokemon or Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu.
Game sequels don't necessarily need 'loose ends' to have a base to create a new game. There are patterns to story telling parts that are becoming all-to-common these games. The most prevalent is the three-act story telling. So if you plug in Trigger as introductory, Cross as rising tension, there are things to be combined together to wrap up act 3.
Though personally, I don't think the Chrono-verse should shoot for a big new Episode 3 kinda game, but rather mini-games that just explore the 'possibilities' kinda approach of RD. Stuff like a core 'collection' with more stories/add-ons as DLC kinda content.
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Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: Magus' red staff
« on: June 30, 2012, 09:03:42 pm »
Might be a bit of a thread necro, so I apologize for that, but I do have something to answer the posed inquiry. The animation used when Magus tries to melee Lavos is not his attack animation, its his missing animation. When Magus tries to attack a target and the attack is going to *miss* (like on creatures that physical attacks don't work) that's when the bladeless-scythe shows up and he does that animation.
So the 'red scythe' isn't anything special, as far as I know, that Magus prepared before hand, its just a visual affirmation that the attack was ineffective by using the 'your attack missed animation'
It's just like how all the other playable characters have animation variations when they attack and miss (like Marle giggles)
So the 'red scythe' isn't anything special, as far as I know, that Magus prepared before hand, its just a visual affirmation that the attack was ineffective by using the 'your attack missed animation'
It's just like how all the other playable characters have animation variations when they attack and miss (like Marle giggles)
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Chemo Cross: "Like augmenting a premature baby"
« on: February 20, 2012, 05:44:04 pm »
It's been awhile since I've played Cross, so I might not be able to give it the justification and memories that some parts of it deserve, but there are two particular qualities that stand out to me that I've noticed recently.
A) I've watched the sequilitis series done by Egoraptor and I think he provides enough diplomatic language and particular gaming and design concepts I can relate to and remember between Trigger and Cross and
B) my lingering recollections of the games.
Yes Cross is not Trigger 2, and I can understand to that. However with the use of "Chrono" intentionally in its name and how its used, its intended to alert players that this is an effective 'sequal' to becoming a chrono series, even more so when each re-release of Trigger makes more 'connections' to Cross. So, the quick-call I would say about Cross is I think its an ungraceful sequel. I could probably ramble and maybe make a spiffy argument as best I am able with uses of rhetoric, but I think some of the concepts come off easily enough by looking at Trigger and Cross like egoraptor did between castlevania games (and between megaman and X) (and this might open up discussion about particulars others see or what to mention)
To me, I don't feel a player connection to the events of Cross, and I don't think the [main] characters do either. Furthermore, the game doesn't have a leveling system, nor any means of really conveying an intentional growth in strength or progress, so it feels stagnant in more ways than one. The music is nice, but often times doesn't really connect to whats going on, so it doesn't leave any lingering connections. (Btw, i listen to the soundtrack often enough,as it is nice music, but I don't think its good video game music)
The simplest improvement I can think of for the game would be to rename it, and cut out some of the lingering ties between the two games. Keep the Cross universe and events that happen with that particular sphere, and add a bit more backstory to the game's past and set-up on the events that I get from just that game alone. Yea, that doesn't do much for people that already played it, but if the game is better self-contained, then it can focus more on the a "new experience" esp if its ever rereleased with like revamped graphics.
More complex improvements would be giving Serge an outlet for expressing himself in the story. I don't think he works as a silent protagonist and could use some dialogue to intact with everyone else; esp if he gets inner monologue or thought bubbles. I think some other story-based presentations would need to be tweaked, and to have a change in character growths, story contributions, and to have inter-party connections all make more sense.
Again related back to Sequalitis; Cross is like castlevania 2 in many regards; just like how many elements of Simon's quest were revamped into later games and made to work, so could Cross elements be made and refined to make better chrono games; but these are tools that need to be used deliberately and with skill, not just tossed together because it might be neat or stir a potential moment of awe.
A) I've watched the sequilitis series done by Egoraptor and I think he provides enough diplomatic language and particular gaming and design concepts I can relate to and remember between Trigger and Cross and
B) my lingering recollections of the games.
Yes Cross is not Trigger 2, and I can understand to that. However with the use of "Chrono" intentionally in its name and how its used, its intended to alert players that this is an effective 'sequal' to becoming a chrono series, even more so when each re-release of Trigger makes more 'connections' to Cross. So, the quick-call I would say about Cross is I think its an ungraceful sequel. I could probably ramble and maybe make a spiffy argument as best I am able with uses of rhetoric, but I think some of the concepts come off easily enough by looking at Trigger and Cross like egoraptor did between castlevania games (and between megaman and X) (and this might open up discussion about particulars others see or what to mention)
To me, I don't feel a player connection to the events of Cross, and I don't think the [main] characters do either. Furthermore, the game doesn't have a leveling system, nor any means of really conveying an intentional growth in strength or progress, so it feels stagnant in more ways than one. The music is nice, but often times doesn't really connect to whats going on, so it doesn't leave any lingering connections. (Btw, i listen to the soundtrack often enough,as it is nice music, but I don't think its good video game music)
The simplest improvement I can think of for the game would be to rename it, and cut out some of the lingering ties between the two games. Keep the Cross universe and events that happen with that particular sphere, and add a bit more backstory to the game's past and set-up on the events that I get from just that game alone. Yea, that doesn't do much for people that already played it, but if the game is better self-contained, then it can focus more on the a "new experience" esp if its ever rereleased with like revamped graphics.
More complex improvements would be giving Serge an outlet for expressing himself in the story. I don't think he works as a silent protagonist and could use some dialogue to intact with everyone else; esp if he gets inner monologue or thought bubbles. I think some other story-based presentations would need to be tweaked, and to have a change in character growths, story contributions, and to have inter-party connections all make more sense.
Again related back to Sequalitis; Cross is like castlevania 2 in many regards; just like how many elements of Simon's quest were revamped into later games and made to work, so could Cross elements be made and refined to make better chrono games; but these are tools that need to be used deliberately and with skill, not just tossed together because it might be neat or stir a potential moment of awe.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 06, 2011, 04:12:53 am »Quote
3. Crono's Death is pointless -
out of curiosity, what form of Trigger is being played here; Snes, playstation, ds. etc? 12+ years ago ago CT didn't have the cut scenes and I have always hated that particular scene added at Crono's death. If it is a version that has those scenes, I could certainly see why it feels like a pointless death. On the other hand, it could also just be a case of overstimulated story telling these days — it's like Aeris' death when FF7 first came out; many players were crazy touched by that, but people picking up the game years later thinks its hilariously terrible.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Have we ever found the true answer...
« on: October 26, 2011, 04:11:23 am »
probably won't get a real official answer, but I'd say part of the change in hair color was to have the build up and surprise about Kid's origins/connections. I remember in my first CC playthrough, I was curious if Riddel has some sort of connection to zeal because she had an off-color hair.
There could be something along the lines pertaining to the Lavos connection, but honestly, I think it was probably more of a change to give Kid more of a "yankee" character.
There could be something along the lines pertaining to the Lavos connection, but honestly, I think it was probably more of a change to give Kid more of a "yankee" character.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Chrono Trigger: What Achievements would there have been?
« on: October 20, 2011, 03:35:41 am »
successfully kill all of the enemies that are scripted to escape/suicide in one playthrough (turrets, rubbles, etc)
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« on: September 02, 2011, 11:33:23 pm »
That's interesting that the perceived limited development for Ayla is taken to push people away from liking her, at least from fan-dom. From my perspective, because she hasn't had the 'major person conflict' or a thorough set development ingame, that leaves her as an open slate. Or rather, she just needs a few more details noted about what is revealed about her.
Though now that my head is running on a few things, it does occur to me people may not write much about her due to the sensitive nature of dealing with direct ancestry in Chrono Trigger time lines.
Also, Ayla and Kino's relationship is pretty odd, and given that Ayla favors strength above all, leads me to wonder what aspect of Kino holds her affection over someone like say, Crono. As even in game Kino misunderstood Ayla's regard for Crono.
Though now that my head is running on a few things, it does occur to me people may not write much about her due to the sensitive nature of dealing with direct ancestry in Chrono Trigger time lines.
Also, Ayla and Kino's relationship is pretty odd, and given that Ayla favors strength above all, leads me to wonder what aspect of Kino holds her affection over someone like say, Crono. As even in game Kino misunderstood Ayla's regard for Crono.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: several issues that don't seem to be explained anywhere
« on: July 09, 2011, 07:33:25 pm »
similar questions of this topic have come up, and off the top of my head, i think you could find some other opinions/ideas from http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,8830.0.html
when i was playing through the games, I did get the impression that Bathazar planned everything out and was really unsatisfied with all that bunk. though after participating in a few discussions, I'd say its not so much that everything is planned out, but rather he's just good at reacting to curve-balls being pitched his way. However, giving the completely ridiculous change in technological advancement in what Bathazar is able to do when he's not stuck in the future, i find myself having a hard enough time trying to suspend my disbelief of the games events to want to care to find the answer.
From my own take on addressing these questions though, I'd say the it was schala herself that had some sort of weird attraction to crying baby serge, which caused her to create the storm or something that impacted Serge's life, and then bathazar somehow worked that into his plan.
Honestly, I still am not sure about what triggers the whole 'split' or the wave that transfers serge between the two spots, i found that poorly written, poorly thought out, and it made it really hard for me to find initial interest in the game years ago, let alone keep it while playing.
when i was playing through the games, I did get the impression that Bathazar planned everything out and was really unsatisfied with all that bunk. though after participating in a few discussions, I'd say its not so much that everything is planned out, but rather he's just good at reacting to curve-balls being pitched his way. However, giving the completely ridiculous change in technological advancement in what Bathazar is able to do when he's not stuck in the future, i find myself having a hard enough time trying to suspend my disbelief of the games events to want to care to find the answer.
From my own take on addressing these questions though, I'd say the it was schala herself that had some sort of weird attraction to crying baby serge, which caused her to create the storm or something that impacted Serge's life, and then bathazar somehow worked that into his plan.
Honestly, I still am not sure about what triggers the whole 'split' or the wave that transfers serge between the two spots, i found that poorly written, poorly thought out, and it made it really hard for me to find initial interest in the game years ago, let alone keep it while playing.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: 11 years later... No sequels...
« on: May 24, 2011, 01:04:11 pm »Quote
We're talking about half of the original's sales. Isn't that good enough for a port with minimal changes ?
maybe, maybe not. One of the particular disadvantages of having a product from another nation is the amount of information that we get. So it sold X number of copies... okay, what does that mean in relation to how much it cost them to make that in the first place? How much did those copies sell for to offset those costs?
If all games used roughly the same budget or all sold for close to the same prices (at all times,) then maybe that 'X units sold' would be a more useful number. Part of my guess is that something like Cross costed a lot more than another project, and despite having "high acclaim" state side, it didn't get the compensation to offset more than just the financial costs compared to other productions. And it might not just be Cross, but other experiments that SE does, or those they work with, simply not panning out sufficiently.
It could also be that they think the market for such a game isn't right currently, let alone having the man power and commitment needed to create that basis for a new project for the chrono-verse.
Personally, I think SE could gain quite a bit if they take the dimensional aspect from Dreamers/Cross to merge Crono elements into their successful franchises and work to glean renewed interested in that IP and then do a smaller project before building up to a new series entry blockbuster.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Sir Crono Facts
« on: May 10, 2011, 04:50:58 am »Quote
I forgot where I got Sir Crono from specifically, I think either FaustWolf, Thought or Boo coined it, but it occurred to me for the Middle Ages folks Crono wasn't native, and was yet regarded highly in Guardia.
when you recovery the rainbow shell, queen leene refers to crono as "sir crono," though this can apply to any lead character at that moment. Additional reference comes from the kitchen in 1000 ad, after the events at zenan bridge you can order a meal named after crono, though i don't remember if they use "sir" or just "hero from the past" or whatnot. So i dunno about forum references, but at least from my recollection, there is in-game occurrence.
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Sir Crono defeated the Son of Sun without bothering with the prominent flames.
"The end of time" is called thus as one day, Sir Crono will find his image mirrored in spekkio...
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Fall of Guardia
« on: April 07, 2011, 04:35:26 pm »
egad, that was done back in 2008!?
Hilarious comic.
Hilarious comic.
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Other Topics and the Prerelease / Re: Extrapolations for Chrono Break
« on: April 05, 2011, 11:46:31 pm »
had some thinking about Break possibilities lately, and I thought this topic would be more appropriate than others.
could combine 4th and 5th dimensional travel together instead up just up and jumping to 6th (which would be what, multi-verse?)
I think from Cross interviews it was expressed there was a lot of ambition, which, as found out the hard way, wasn't really achieved. However, with the latest consoles, perhaps some of those ambitions could be revisited, and wayhaps a new 'dream team' formed looking to combine several elements across the square/enix board.
Dont care to fish out the quote, but I remember one of the things said of Cross is wanting to take the approach to be able to recruit anyone. Only game I can really think of (though haven't played anything new in some time) that did that is FF Tactics. But rather than just have that out in the open as a game feature, it should have an effect on the story, why would you want to just recruit any joe-shmoe? So that got me thinking, 'what if the games journey endured a duration longer than a single lifetime?'
To me the course the story should eventually lead to exploring more into the origins of Lavos, (or lavoid beings) since it a) had to have come from somewhere and b) is capable of reproducing, so its not just a single instance or mishap exclusive to the world of Chrono-verse. Characters would then be on some epic-space/time/dimension journey and since it seems Lavoid's are capable, or have an effect on time manipulation, unraveling clues/progress would take a larger scale group than the average rpg brawler party, esp if they get committed to a particular set of events in a given time-line. (Course, I think it'd be awesome if more games extended event timelines to encompass more than one life time and considered character offsprings more anyway.)
So take some KH or Star Oceon space-travel, mix in some Tactics recruit anyone, shake up some mating 'catch-em all' with some sexy new team-battle tech mixing with a crazy story that would probably drive people insane working out. Extra points if the 'bad guys" have a kinda comp ai to them so as players mess with various timelines in the game, the computer may react back. Esp if the whole "recruit anyone" makes those characters expendable.
could combine 4th and 5th dimensional travel together instead up just up and jumping to 6th (which would be what, multi-verse?)
I think from Cross interviews it was expressed there was a lot of ambition, which, as found out the hard way, wasn't really achieved. However, with the latest consoles, perhaps some of those ambitions could be revisited, and wayhaps a new 'dream team' formed looking to combine several elements across the square/enix board.
Dont care to fish out the quote, but I remember one of the things said of Cross is wanting to take the approach to be able to recruit anyone. Only game I can really think of (though haven't played anything new in some time) that did that is FF Tactics. But rather than just have that out in the open as a game feature, it should have an effect on the story, why would you want to just recruit any joe-shmoe? So that got me thinking, 'what if the games journey endured a duration longer than a single lifetime?'
To me the course the story should eventually lead to exploring more into the origins of Lavos, (or lavoid beings) since it a) had to have come from somewhere and b) is capable of reproducing, so its not just a single instance or mishap exclusive to the world of Chrono-verse. Characters would then be on some epic-space/time/dimension journey and since it seems Lavoid's are capable, or have an effect on time manipulation, unraveling clues/progress would take a larger scale group than the average rpg brawler party, esp if they get committed to a particular set of events in a given time-line. (Course, I think it'd be awesome if more games extended event timelines to encompass more than one life time and considered character offsprings more anyway.)
So take some KH or Star Oceon space-travel, mix in some Tactics recruit anyone, shake up some mating 'catch-em all' with some sexy new team-battle tech mixing with a crazy story that would probably drive people insane working out. Extra points if the 'bad guys" have a kinda comp ai to them so as players mess with various timelines in the game, the computer may react back. Esp if the whole "recruit anyone" makes those characters expendable.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Fall of Guardia
« on: April 05, 2011, 11:37:34 am »
it's also possible that Crono and Marle (and anyone else) simply weren't there when Porre attacked Guardia. With Dalton around, he could've set traps, baited them away, etc. before an army showed up at Guardia's gates.