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271
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Project Kid
« on: June 04, 2008, 06:31:00 pm »About the hair dye...I thought we found out that it was completely made up & not in either script at all...>_>
I may have simply overlooked that... You'll have to forgive my memory, I've been here for... what, a day(?) and I've read most of the theories and explanations pages... so... I could have easily forgotten a few details.
272
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Project Kid
« on: June 04, 2008, 05:25:41 pm »
Doesn't the Time Devourer disolve in a very Safer Sephiroth-y manner? (its polygons separate and shrink into oblivion... Leaving only Schala)
And as a quick side-note, about the Zealians dying their hair... It seems some people don't really believe it despite it being stated in the JP version... (though it says enlightened ones).
Simply put, who says it isn't a magic based dye? Thus if you run out of energy your hair reverts to its natural color, (as many people seem to be more happy with that explanation)
And as a quick side-note, about the Zealians dying their hair... It seems some people don't really believe it despite it being stated in the JP version... (though it says enlightened ones).
Simply put, who says it isn't a magic based dye? Thus if you run out of energy your hair reverts to its natural color, (as many people seem to be more happy with that explanation)
273
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: The Red Lucca Gate
« on: June 04, 2008, 08:12:35 am »
I believe the red gate is red due to its relative recency. There is no real evidence to prove or disprove this, but my thoughts are that the color of the gate is indicative of its displacement... However, since all of the gates are a fair number of centuries displaced, they all seem to be the same color. Essentially they go from infrared (no time displacement at all) to ultraviolet (a portal directly to the End of Time/Darkness Beyond Time, and no I'm not implying they are the same, but simply that the gate would lead to one of them.)
Since infrared is invisible to the naked eye, it is a fitting description for the normal flow of time. Since the End of Time is theoretically after infinity, it too would need an invisible gate.
Note: the gate in 2300AD was not a gate to the End of Time, but rather the conservation of time redirected it there.
Has anyone considered how Robo may have played into the red gate's existance? I'll need to think more on it before I come up with a basic theory, but it could be that there are gates everywhere, and possibly Robo detected that one by chance?
Since infrared is invisible to the naked eye, it is a fitting description for the normal flow of time. Since the End of Time is theoretically after infinity, it too would need an invisible gate.
Note: the gate in 2300AD was not a gate to the End of Time, but rather the conservation of time redirected it there.
Has anyone considered how Robo may have played into the red gate's existance? I'll need to think more on it before I come up with a basic theory, but it could be that there are gates everywhere, and possibly Robo detected that one by chance?
274
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: The Masamune, the Dreamstone, Mammon Machine, and Magus...
« on: June 04, 2008, 06:15:42 am »
Well... I suppose tha kills my theory... I thought pretty hard about it too....oh well...
Bah, I hate my memory... C'est la vie...
Bah, I hate my memory... C'est la vie...
275
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: The Masamune, the Dreamstone, Mammon Machine, and Magus...
« on: June 04, 2008, 03:44:59 am »Quotelacking an actual quote
NEVER AN EXCUSE HERE
Magus' Amulet (aka Sara/Schala's Charm)Quote from: Compendium EntryUsed by: All characters
Effect: Prevents all status abnormalities
How to obtain:
* Equipped on Magus when he joins.
* Beat Magus on the North Cape.
The Amulet was given to Janus by Schala to calm his fears about the increasing evil of their mother, shortly before the Fall of Zeal. She imbued her prayers within it to protect him. This prayer note was lost during the English translation of Chrono Trigger.
It doesn't seem to share any qualities with Dreamstone unless you attribute the Masamune as having absorbed from the Amulet...but it says it absorbs from Magus in-game...so why bring up something to try and explain something that already has an explanation?
The Magic energy that the Mammon Machine absorbs is from Lavos. The energy the Masamune absorbs from the Mammon Machine is indirectly from Lavos. And, Magus' Magic, like all the Magic we see in-game, originates from Lavos, right? That's not a difficult explanation, right? Occam's Razor. HUZZAH!
So are you in fact saying that Spekkio leeched the party's enablement of magic off of Lavos?
On a side note, I did have A quote, however I didn't feel it absolutely necessary to go hunt down the document on this site....
Noted though.
Back to the subject of the amulet, is it not the same one that you obtain to replace the Guardian pendant? Have I misunderstood something from the game? As I understood it, the original pendant, (from the beginning of the game, 1000AD) was taken when you are imprisoned in Zeal and the amulet you obtain from Magus acts as a replacement...
Is that incorrect? Do I have reason to worry about alzheimers?
EDIT: or is this simply the work of some unfortunitely reused sprite graphic...?
276
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Project Kid
« on: June 04, 2008, 02:49:42 am »
I don't think I've ever seen that word before.... recrudescence...?
Either way, I don't believe Lavos really had any influence on Kid. Kid is partially a clone and partially a daughter... though as I understood the game's wording, she's simply a clone of Schala that ended up as a baby rather than inheriting Schala's maturity (like clones in CT).
In a sense, Schala created Kid as an image of herself that was still innocent and pure.
Either way, I don't believe Lavos really had any influence on Kid. Kid is partially a clone and partially a daughter... though as I understood the game's wording, she's simply a clone of Schala that ended up as a baby rather than inheriting Schala's maturity (like clones in CT).
In a sense, Schala created Kid as an image of herself that was still innocent and pure.
277
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Harle-origin and accent
« on: June 04, 2008, 02:44:32 am »
If I remember correctly, the accent system was devised by the english translation team, in order to do less work(IE writing most of the lines only once, as opposed to writing lines specifically for all 50 characters). Also if I remember correctly, Kid spoke with a Kansai dialect in the original. Kansai being a somewhat slang style of japanese... sort of disrespectful or unrefined in certain areas of Japan, but considered the norm in others. Another note about Kansai is that, when directly translated, the sentences typically line up fairly close to traditional Japanese, meaning that they had to take liberties with the english dialog in order to show that Kid spoke differently.
Note, that some of my explanation may be incorrect, as I speak very very little Japanese, and I read the information about Jp Chrono Cross a significant while ago.....
On the topic of accents and where they come from, where exactly would Korcha obtain his, uhh.... "unique" accent? (Ok screw it, its bad... terrible, horrible, like his hair... his weapon, his pantslessness and everything else about him... I despise KorCHA with a paCHAn... O.<; )
Note, that some of my explanation may be incorrect, as I speak very very little Japanese, and I read the information about Jp Chrono Cross a significant while ago.....
On the topic of accents and where they come from, where exactly would Korcha obtain his, uhh.... "unique" accent? (Ok screw it, its bad... terrible, horrible, like his hair... his weapon, his pantslessness and everything else about him... I despise KorCHA with a paCHAn... O.<; )
278
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: King Guardia and the Rainbow Shell
« on: June 04, 2008, 02:21:44 am »
Ahh.... I do love being able to practice my necromantic arts without persocution XD
Anyway, as I see it, the letter Leene wrote was intended to mean that she would keep everyone unaware of it's presence, as it was meant to be guarded until the time heroes returned to claim it; that as reward for finding it, they were the rightful recipients of its glory...
Another thing is, who's to say that there aren't more than one treasury? In all actuality the scale of that castle is extremely tiny compared to a real one, its more along the lines of a moderate sized mansion... Though, in context of the game it was meant to be a massive wondrous palace full of rooms and such. For instance, a typical castle has enough room to board all of the staff that are required for its upkeep, and if that castle is a defensive position (usually they are) room for the knights as well. As we all can clearly see, it isn't nearly big enough for that.... oddly enough, there are far more storage rooms, filled with seemingly useless junk, than there are beds. We see this as we escape from the prison wing, speaking of which, where are all of these "wings" located? Surely they are somewhere, though note that they only appear after they become relevant to the story. If I remember correctly, the treasury that contains the rainbow shell doesn't even exist until after it is found. While the same is theoretically true of the judicial wing, we at least get a word that it will come to exist. No one ever mentions building a new treasury in 600AD do they?
Note the pirate dude there... Pirates didn't really think about making their treasure seem worthless in order to protect it, they simply hid it or kept it with them.
If something was REALLY important, wouldn't the best protection be to make it seem unimportant... like say, the object in the treasury at Guardia? OR perhaps Leene accomplished that guise in order to make the inhabitants of the castle dismiss it as "just another storage room filled with crap". That would explain why it isn't upkept... its sort of like attic space or basement junk rooms.... no one goes in there because they know its all just junk...
But, ever notice you find interesting things when cleaning out junk rooms after a while...? Sometimes, things you didn't know you had...? and often there may even be animals or bugs living there that aren't in the rest of the place. (this coincides with the monster infestation, though they could have been sent there to raid the room during the trial... the trial was in fact, a diversion... this is what I believe.)
Anyway, as I see it, the letter Leene wrote was intended to mean that she would keep everyone unaware of it's presence, as it was meant to be guarded until the time heroes returned to claim it; that as reward for finding it, they were the rightful recipients of its glory...
Another thing is, who's to say that there aren't more than one treasury? In all actuality the scale of that castle is extremely tiny compared to a real one, its more along the lines of a moderate sized mansion... Though, in context of the game it was meant to be a massive wondrous palace full of rooms and such. For instance, a typical castle has enough room to board all of the staff that are required for its upkeep, and if that castle is a defensive position (usually they are) room for the knights as well. As we all can clearly see, it isn't nearly big enough for that.... oddly enough, there are far more storage rooms, filled with seemingly useless junk, than there are beds. We see this as we escape from the prison wing, speaking of which, where are all of these "wings" located? Surely they are somewhere, though note that they only appear after they become relevant to the story. If I remember correctly, the treasury that contains the rainbow shell doesn't even exist until after it is found. While the same is theoretically true of the judicial wing, we at least get a word that it will come to exist. No one ever mentions building a new treasury in 600AD do they?
I didn't say they were being paid by Guardia in exchange for protecting the treasures...I just said they were allowed to populate the treasury...Not that they control them, it's just that the treasury was sort of just left in ruin...to keep in more in secret...?Ah, that makes more sense. That was no shiny treasury...When I think treasury, I see
As for what you're talking about Boo...Yeah, I don't think time travel works that way in the series...>_>
Note the pirate dude there... Pirates didn't really think about making their treasure seem worthless in order to protect it, they simply hid it or kept it with them.
If something was REALLY important, wouldn't the best protection be to make it seem unimportant... like say, the object in the treasury at Guardia? OR perhaps Leene accomplished that guise in order to make the inhabitants of the castle dismiss it as "just another storage room filled with crap". That would explain why it isn't upkept... its sort of like attic space or basement junk rooms.... no one goes in there because they know its all just junk...
But, ever notice you find interesting things when cleaning out junk rooms after a while...? Sometimes, things you didn't know you had...? and often there may even be animals or bugs living there that aren't in the rest of the place. (this coincides with the monster infestation, though they could have been sent there to raid the room during the trial... the trial was in fact, a diversion... this is what I believe.)
279
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Nu in Cursed Woods?
« on: June 04, 2008, 01:24:56 am »
interestingly enough, I was about to propose the very theory that the Nu's were in some way linked to every time period...
To quote myself...:
To quote myself...:
Quote
"A simple efficient Eplanation:
Consider that time can only be measured by living things. When life ceases, so too does time.
(We cannot see the beginning of time like we can the end, so we will assume 65000000BC for sake of argument)
In 65MBC, when it rains, 'a strange creature apears.' When the player investigates the given area, in the rain, a Nu can be found. This is as close to the beginning of life --and of time-- that can be measured.
Now, consider The End of Time, and the end of Spekkio's evolution. It is a red Nu.
Since there is no indiginous life at The End of Time, Spekkio and Gaspar can be assumed to be the end of life, the final creatures in existance.
Take into account, Nus are present in nearly every time period. Beginning at 65MBC all the way up to the end of Zeal, and again in 2300AD. It could be possible that the Nu in 2300AD is in fact a construct of Belthasar. It couldn't be from Zeal, because it was not present when the Lavos gate was opened, expelling those present through time. However, it could simply be a naturally born(born?) Nu with quirks. (Nus don't seem to be incredibly common except in 12KBC anyway)
Another possibility is that Belthasar "fixed" the Nu as it was dying like the rest of 2300AD, while at the same time making it into somewhat of a cyborg save
Essentially the point is, Nus are present throughout history-- All life begins with Nu. All life ends with Nu."
280
Characters, Plot, and Themes / The Masamune, the Dreamstone, Mammon Machine, and Magus...
« on: June 04, 2008, 01:09:20 am »
Considered posting in an older topic about this, but my theory is different from the main ones in the Compendium FAQ, so I figured I'd start fresh.
First off, this theory assumes that the Dreamstones are capable of holding their "proper charge"* for a long time, second, we assume Dreamstones "attract" energy, and thus is why they were used at all.
The Masamune (Ruby Knife, Dreamstone) drain energy from eachother due to diffusion(object with greater energy disperses its energy into object with lesser energy until both are equal, or relatively equal by percentage...Not a new concept). The Ruby Knife was designed to take energy from the Mammon Machine, however, as the Knife, it wasn't capable of handling enough power to be useful, thus Masa and Mune 'awakened', becoming the Masamune. The sword, having more theoretical capacity (whether it be physical or metaphysical capacity, IE physical size or spiritual powers) was able to siphon off considerable amounts of energy from the Dreamstone inside the Mammon Machine.
(Melchior used his Dream companions as the catalyst for the Ruby Knife, knowing that the capacity of the Dreamstone in the knife alone wouldn't be enough to drain the Machine)
So, the Mammon Machine, having greater stores of energy, diffused that power into the competely uncharged Masamune. (like an air freshener dispersing throughout a room instead of staying directly where it was sprayed)
That explains the Mammon Machine, but why does it work on Magus? Several theories have been proposed, and one seemed to be getting close, but it went the wrong direction in my opinion.
Before I continue, lets remember something Schala said to Janus...
(lacking an actual quote, I'll give the gist of the scene) Schala gives Janus 'a magical amulet that will protect you'
as she effectively describes it. This amulet, is in fact the same type of amulet that allows interface with the Mammon Machine.
NOTE: These amulets were imbued with Dreamstone also.
Janus keeps this amulet all the way up to the point at which you are given the choice to recruit or kill him(as Magus).
Should you choose to recruit him or not, you obtain his amulet, which was drained of its power at some point previous. However, when you fight him the first time, in 600AD, the amulet still has power(This is where the theory effectively starts). The Masamune, having been most likely unused(as a Dreamstone object, unused that is) for thousands of years, broken, and finally reforged using a new piece of Dreamstone, lost its energy charge(that it had gained from the Mammon Machine)
Now to the point, Magus' magic defense was partly a side effect of the amulet's power (which Schala had given the protective magic). The amulet may not have been fully charged** by the time 'we' fight Magus in 600AD. During this fight, (if used... though I don't see why it wouldn't be) the Masamune drains energy-- not from Magus himself, but from the amulet's protective charm. The same can be true of the next bout, if 'we' choose to kill Magus.
Now, having said all of this, you probably think to yourself:
Question: Then why does the amulet not work on the sealed doors if it still has some charge?
Answer: Simple, the amulet in Magus' possession was A. not fully charged anyway, due to time, B. It was storing an energy it wasn't designed to store, and thus it sped the loss of energy, and C. the doors weren't meant to open with just any type of energy, such as the energy of the protective charm, but specifically the Lavos energy.
Q: Why, then, does the Masamune drain the protective charm from the amulet?
A: Because, the energy in the amulet was only barely being held inside it in the first place, the force of 2 Dreamstone artifacts vying for the energy would still lead to the dispersal of the energy. Not to mention the Masamune was designed to drained the Mammon Machine itself, so the capacity to drain an already diminishing protective charm would be more than easy...
Q: Why doesn't the Masamune have the same protective powers as the amulet did, if it drained the amulet's power?
A: While the Masamune did draw the energy away from the Amulet, it was not made to harness the protective energy, and thus, did not store it. Schala specifically and purposely charged the amulet herself. No one attempted to "trap" the protect charm in the Masamune.
*Energy harvested from the Mammon Machine's interface with Lavos.
**(possible due to the fact that the magical energy Schala charged it with was likely not the intended type of energy, and Magus did have it for a few good years)
Now, have I forgotten anything? what do you all think? Is my observation of things in some way faulty, it seems rather sound in my mind... (though maybe a little confusing to read... I'm not sure about that...)
First off, this theory assumes that the Dreamstones are capable of holding their "proper charge"* for a long time, second, we assume Dreamstones "attract" energy, and thus is why they were used at all.
The Masamune (Ruby Knife, Dreamstone) drain energy from eachother due to diffusion(object with greater energy disperses its energy into object with lesser energy until both are equal, or relatively equal by percentage...Not a new concept). The Ruby Knife was designed to take energy from the Mammon Machine, however, as the Knife, it wasn't capable of handling enough power to be useful, thus Masa and Mune 'awakened', becoming the Masamune. The sword, having more theoretical capacity (whether it be physical or metaphysical capacity, IE physical size or spiritual powers) was able to siphon off considerable amounts of energy from the Dreamstone inside the Mammon Machine.
(Melchior used his Dream companions as the catalyst for the Ruby Knife, knowing that the capacity of the Dreamstone in the knife alone wouldn't be enough to drain the Machine)
So, the Mammon Machine, having greater stores of energy, diffused that power into the competely uncharged Masamune. (like an air freshener dispersing throughout a room instead of staying directly where it was sprayed)
That explains the Mammon Machine, but why does it work on Magus? Several theories have been proposed, and one seemed to be getting close, but it went the wrong direction in my opinion.
Before I continue, lets remember something Schala said to Janus...
(lacking an actual quote, I'll give the gist of the scene) Schala gives Janus 'a magical amulet that will protect you'
as she effectively describes it. This amulet, is in fact the same type of amulet that allows interface with the Mammon Machine.
NOTE: These amulets were imbued with Dreamstone also.
Janus keeps this amulet all the way up to the point at which you are given the choice to recruit or kill him(as Magus).
Should you choose to recruit him or not, you obtain his amulet, which was drained of its power at some point previous. However, when you fight him the first time, in 600AD, the amulet still has power(This is where the theory effectively starts). The Masamune, having been most likely unused(as a Dreamstone object, unused that is) for thousands of years, broken, and finally reforged using a new piece of Dreamstone, lost its energy charge(that it had gained from the Mammon Machine)
Now to the point, Magus' magic defense was partly a side effect of the amulet's power (which Schala had given the protective magic). The amulet may not have been fully charged** by the time 'we' fight Magus in 600AD. During this fight, (if used... though I don't see why it wouldn't be) the Masamune drains energy-- not from Magus himself, but from the amulet's protective charm. The same can be true of the next bout, if 'we' choose to kill Magus.
Now, having said all of this, you probably think to yourself:
Question: Then why does the amulet not work on the sealed doors if it still has some charge?
Answer: Simple, the amulet in Magus' possession was A. not fully charged anyway, due to time, B. It was storing an energy it wasn't designed to store, and thus it sped the loss of energy, and C. the doors weren't meant to open with just any type of energy, such as the energy of the protective charm, but specifically the Lavos energy.
Q: Why, then, does the Masamune drain the protective charm from the amulet?
A: Because, the energy in the amulet was only barely being held inside it in the first place, the force of 2 Dreamstone artifacts vying for the energy would still lead to the dispersal of the energy. Not to mention the Masamune was designed to drained the Mammon Machine itself, so the capacity to drain an already diminishing protective charm would be more than easy...
Q: Why doesn't the Masamune have the same protective powers as the amulet did, if it drained the amulet's power?
A: While the Masamune did draw the energy away from the Amulet, it was not made to harness the protective energy, and thus, did not store it. Schala specifically and purposely charged the amulet herself. No one attempted to "trap" the protect charm in the Masamune.
*Energy harvested from the Mammon Machine's interface with Lavos.
**(possible due to the fact that the magical energy Schala charged it with was likely not the intended type of energy, and Magus did have it for a few good years)
Now, have I forgotten anything? what do you all think? Is my observation of things in some way faulty, it seems rather sound in my mind... (though maybe a little confusing to read... I'm not sure about that...)