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16
General Discussion / Re: Whats YOUR Favourite Game?
« on: September 20, 2010, 12:06:22 pm »
Certainly. For reference there are links to The Stygian Abyss and Labyrinth of Worlds
It was intended more as a simulation than a straight RPG, even though it is very much an RPG. It is a first person perspective RPG that came out around the same time as Doom but it did a lot of firsts in video games (at least for Dos PC first person games).
For example, it was the first game to allow you to look up and down. Your character got hungry and tired and had to eat and sleep. Torches would actually get used up and burn out. There were many items that were there for realism that served no mechanical purpose (like silverware, stuff that is now common in games like the elder scrolls). Items interacted with each other (so if you used a torch on an ear of corn it made popcorn) and there was physics (so if you dropped and item it would bounce). There were also different modes of attacking that was based on where on the screen you initiated the attack and how you moved the mouse (so you could stab, slash, or bash with every weapon).
One of the things I liked the most was that many characters were unique. You could get through a good portion of the game without killing anything by bartering, bluffing, or threatening your way through NPCs that each had different motivations and aspirations.
So when I see generic hack and slashes or bare bones railroad RPGs sometimes it baffles me that 18 years ago we were able to create some of the most immersing games I have ever played. I wonder sometimes why it seems like we are going backwards instead of forwards when it comes to RPGs. There are greats of course (like Bethesda and Bioware games) but compared to how many total are out there it still seems like a small amount.
It was intended more as a simulation than a straight RPG, even though it is very much an RPG. It is a first person perspective RPG that came out around the same time as Doom but it did a lot of firsts in video games (at least for Dos PC first person games).
For example, it was the first game to allow you to look up and down. Your character got hungry and tired and had to eat and sleep. Torches would actually get used up and burn out. There were many items that were there for realism that served no mechanical purpose (like silverware, stuff that is now common in games like the elder scrolls). Items interacted with each other (so if you used a torch on an ear of corn it made popcorn) and there was physics (so if you dropped and item it would bounce). There were also different modes of attacking that was based on where on the screen you initiated the attack and how you moved the mouse (so you could stab, slash, or bash with every weapon).
One of the things I liked the most was that many characters were unique. You could get through a good portion of the game without killing anything by bartering, bluffing, or threatening your way through NPCs that each had different motivations and aspirations.
So when I see generic hack and slashes or bare bones railroad RPGs sometimes it baffles me that 18 years ago we were able to create some of the most immersing games I have ever played. I wonder sometimes why it seems like we are going backwards instead of forwards when it comes to RPGs. There are greats of course (like Bethesda and Bioware games) but compared to how many total are out there it still seems like a small amount.
17
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Lavos, The Entity, and The Pocket Dimension
« on: August 30, 2010, 12:21:30 pm »
So, if Lavos just being killed does not get him to the DBT then some of the things he did that otherwise make less sense become more sensible. In order to ensure he ends up in the DBT he has to do something (or multiple things) significant enough that entire time lines have to be discarded in order to eliminate him.
That seems to me to lend credit to the theory that he at least somewhat knew what he was doing.
That seems to me to lend credit to the theory that he at least somewhat knew what he was doing.
18
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Lavos, The Entity, and The Pocket Dimension
« on: August 26, 2010, 11:31:14 am »
I did not realize that my fourth point would spark such interest but I am glad that people are thinking about it, regardless of whether it is possible or not in and of itself. Idioticidioms already covered the points I would bring up in defense of the theory.
I would say that we are all following our natural course of life. Just because Lavos is does not mean that it is not knowledgeable about the DBT. Humans have a tendency to think anything except them has higher cognitive functions, but just because other animals do not feel the need to force it on others does not mean it is nonexistent. Now we know Dolphins and pigeons can recognize themselves in a reflection, something few animals seem to be able to do. However, our knowing this is true now does not mean before this point they did not have the mental capacity to do so. By the same token we actually never figure out just how intelligent Lavos is. Sure, it might not demonstrate anything beyond what we interpret as instinct. However, doing so is also a good way to hide how much it does know. Play the fool and people think you are, allowing you to gain the upper hand because when you pull something off it is completely unexpected.
As far as knowing about the DBT specifically, it is true that Belthasar had to do intensive research to learn about it. Maybe Lavos already did. It is reasonable to think that Lavos is the spawn of another Lavos traveling from a different planet that was not able to defend itself. How many generations of Lavos are there and how long have they been alive? Especially if the pocket dimension is included there are thousands upon thousands of years of knowledge that can be obtained in every cycle. There is no indication that had Lavos not been stopped that it would have died, so Lavos could be billions of years old for all we know.
I will concede that Lavos may not have come to Chrono's planet specifically to enter the DBT. But since it can connect to multiple time periods with its pocket dimension it may have realized its death was likely and then went about setting things up to allow it to enter the DBT. Sort of like Obi-Wan Kenobi facing Darth Vader in episode IV. Realizing he would not be able to escape he was able to set himself up to remain "alive" after death.
I would say that we are all following our natural course of life. Just because Lavos is does not mean that it is not knowledgeable about the DBT. Humans have a tendency to think anything except them has higher cognitive functions, but just because other animals do not feel the need to force it on others does not mean it is nonexistent. Now we know Dolphins and pigeons can recognize themselves in a reflection, something few animals seem to be able to do. However, our knowing this is true now does not mean before this point they did not have the mental capacity to do so. By the same token we actually never figure out just how intelligent Lavos is. Sure, it might not demonstrate anything beyond what we interpret as instinct. However, doing so is also a good way to hide how much it does know. Play the fool and people think you are, allowing you to gain the upper hand because when you pull something off it is completely unexpected.
As far as knowing about the DBT specifically, it is true that Belthasar had to do intensive research to learn about it. Maybe Lavos already did. It is reasonable to think that Lavos is the spawn of another Lavos traveling from a different planet that was not able to defend itself. How many generations of Lavos are there and how long have they been alive? Especially if the pocket dimension is included there are thousands upon thousands of years of knowledge that can be obtained in every cycle. There is no indication that had Lavos not been stopped that it would have died, so Lavos could be billions of years old for all we know.
I will concede that Lavos may not have come to Chrono's planet specifically to enter the DBT. But since it can connect to multiple time periods with its pocket dimension it may have realized its death was likely and then went about setting things up to allow it to enter the DBT. Sort of like Obi-Wan Kenobi facing Darth Vader in episode IV. Realizing he would not be able to escape he was able to set himself up to remain "alive" after death.
19
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Schala started Chrono Trigger
« on: August 25, 2010, 08:03:56 pm »
Ah, I misunderstood the pocket dimension a bit then. Thanks for the clarification.
Still, just because you know something is going to happen does not mean you are able to do something about it. If we found out tomorrow that a meteor was going to be landing on earth in a hundred years if we did nothing about it would we actually be able to stop it or circumvent it? Possibly yes, but also possibly no. Likewise, if the entity either knew Lavos was coming or knew Lavos was going to attempt to destroy it does not mean it would be in a position to actually do anything about it until Chrono and Company came along. It is a planet, presumably with a rotation and orbit. It's path is somewhat predetermined so it Lavos or anything else for that matter was going to hit it there is little it could do.
Still, just because you know something is going to happen does not mean you are able to do something about it. If we found out tomorrow that a meteor was going to be landing on earth in a hundred years if we did nothing about it would we actually be able to stop it or circumvent it? Possibly yes, but also possibly no. Likewise, if the entity either knew Lavos was coming or knew Lavos was going to attempt to destroy it does not mean it would be in a position to actually do anything about it until Chrono and Company came along. It is a planet, presumably with a rotation and orbit. It's path is somewhat predetermined so it Lavos or anything else for that matter was going to hit it there is little it could do.
20
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Lavos, The Entity, and The Pocket Dimension
« on: August 25, 2010, 07:57:21 pm »
I have been reading through some of the discussions that I missed while I was away for a few months and one led me to brush up on the pocket dimension theory. According to the Compendium there are only two loose ends, one of which is then immediately explained. However, the last one is not gone into in any detail.
The reason it gives is that regardless of when Chrono and company enter the pocket dimension Lavos will be at his most powerful, but that does not really answer the question because if I knew something was gaining power in an attempt to destroy me I would still take care of it when it was weak, not wait until it was strong enough to threaten me. I was thinking about this and came up with several possible explanations. I wanted to hear what others thought and perhaps get some additional explanations. If we can come up with an agreed upon reason then it can be added to the compendium.
First off, how exactly does the pocket dimension exist relative to time? We know it is connected to all points in time, but does it simultaneously exist at all points in time, or only when the connection to the dimension is made? If it exists at all points in time then:
A. Once Lavos enters the earth and establishes the pocket dimension he is then connected to all points in time simultaneously. Since everything happens at the same 'time' he would then be almost instantaneously attacked by the party as they exist at the end of the game. Therefore, he never actually examined them going through time because all observations of them happened simultaneously.
If, on the other hand there is still some regular flow of time with regards to the pocket dimension then:
B. Lavos was simply overconfident or was not actually able to perceive them reliably. To him all other life forms are insects. Humans have a tendency to think little of most life forms that are very small, yet many of the smallest things are what have the highest success rate of actually killing us (small insects and arachnids, viruses, bacteria, et cetera). Things that are too small and live such a short life we are barely able to comprehend them have been killing us for thousands of years despite the fact that we generally do not take them into account.
C. They were protected by The Entity. If The Entity can influence events and create dimensional rifts and time vortexes, maybe it could also mask lifeforms. In that respect even if Lavos had been looking for threats maybe it was unable to perceive them. Until the final battle(s) whenever the party encountered Lavos it never seemed to pull any punches, killing a main character among other things. At that time maybe it realized they were a threat and went on the offensive but otherwise had no knowledge of their existence.
There is also another possibility:
D. Lavos wanted to be destroyed. Considering Belthasar's Xanatos Roulette in Chrono Cross, who is to say that Chrono Trigger was not a Xanatos Roulette of Lavos? Maybe it wanted to be destroyed because it knew it would be sent to the darkness beyond time where it could become the time devourer and destroy all of space and time. Any points that also needed to happen, such as Schala also needed to go there could have been orchestrated by Lavos and it is no more unbelievable than Belthasar's plan. That could have even been why it came to Chrono's planet, because it was here where it could set up the right people to merge with to become the time Devourer and it knew The Entity would intervene with heroes to destroy it.
Quote from: Pocket Dimension
Another inquiry concerning the Pocket Dimension reads, "if Lavos could observe the eras, why didn't he notice Crono and his crew traveling through time on a mission to defeat him and take action?"
The reason it gives is that regardless of when Chrono and company enter the pocket dimension Lavos will be at his most powerful, but that does not really answer the question because if I knew something was gaining power in an attempt to destroy me I would still take care of it when it was weak, not wait until it was strong enough to threaten me. I was thinking about this and came up with several possible explanations. I wanted to hear what others thought and perhaps get some additional explanations. If we can come up with an agreed upon reason then it can be added to the compendium.
First off, how exactly does the pocket dimension exist relative to time? We know it is connected to all points in time, but does it simultaneously exist at all points in time, or only when the connection to the dimension is made? If it exists at all points in time then:
A. Once Lavos enters the earth and establishes the pocket dimension he is then connected to all points in time simultaneously. Since everything happens at the same 'time' he would then be almost instantaneously attacked by the party as they exist at the end of the game. Therefore, he never actually examined them going through time because all observations of them happened simultaneously.
If, on the other hand there is still some regular flow of time with regards to the pocket dimension then:
B. Lavos was simply overconfident or was not actually able to perceive them reliably. To him all other life forms are insects. Humans have a tendency to think little of most life forms that are very small, yet many of the smallest things are what have the highest success rate of actually killing us (small insects and arachnids, viruses, bacteria, et cetera). Things that are too small and live such a short life we are barely able to comprehend them have been killing us for thousands of years despite the fact that we generally do not take them into account.
C. They were protected by The Entity. If The Entity can influence events and create dimensional rifts and time vortexes, maybe it could also mask lifeforms. In that respect even if Lavos had been looking for threats maybe it was unable to perceive them. Until the final battle(s) whenever the party encountered Lavos it never seemed to pull any punches, killing a main character among other things. At that time maybe it realized they were a threat and went on the offensive but otherwise had no knowledge of their existence.
There is also another possibility:
D. Lavos wanted to be destroyed. Considering Belthasar's Xanatos Roulette in Chrono Cross, who is to say that Chrono Trigger was not a Xanatos Roulette of Lavos? Maybe it wanted to be destroyed because it knew it would be sent to the darkness beyond time where it could become the time devourer and destroy all of space and time. Any points that also needed to happen, such as Schala also needed to go there could have been orchestrated by Lavos and it is no more unbelievable than Belthasar's plan. That could have even been why it came to Chrono's planet, because it was here where it could set up the right people to merge with to become the time Devourer and it knew The Entity would intervene with heroes to destroy it.
21
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Schala started Chrono Trigger
« on: August 25, 2010, 06:11:36 pm »Remember that in Time Error terms, when the Ocean Palace events happened for the first time, even if the Planet noticed Schala during those moments, Lavos's destruction on the world hadn't happened. And even if the planet would have wanted to eliminate Lavos just for destroying Zeal (and why would it? Zeal had abandoned it and in turn turned their attention to Lavos after all), the Millennial Fair events still hadn't happened, and as such, the planet wouldn't have known yet they were it's best shot.
It wasn't until after Lavos destroyed the world that the planet now wanted to get rid of it, and now, it looked into it's past to see what it could use, and that turned out to be Crono and company.
This is assuming that the entity was tied to time linearly. In the series great powers (such as Lavos, and by extension the black omen) demonstrate the ability to exist at all points in time simultaneously. It seems reasonable that the entity, being the life force of the planet and itself quite potent (at least enough to alter space and time), would also exist in the same manner.
22
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Re: The Black Wind (The Wheel of Time)
« on: August 25, 2010, 04:37:34 pm »
Interesting that the Wild Hunt is mentioned. The third book of the series, the great hunt, is a similarly themed hunt where a horn is found that, when used by a person with a life of great destiny (ie one of the three main characters) the horn calls forth an army of people from the dead to fight for him (most of which died for previous incarnations of the current heroes in past lives).
Since the Wild Hunt involved the dead there may be similarities between the Wild Hunt and the Great Hunt. I think this supports Thought theory that both Jordon and Kato are drawing inspiration from the same sources, but not each other.
Since the Wild Hunt involved the dead there may be similarities between the Wild Hunt and the Great Hunt. I think this supports Thought theory that both Jordon and Kato are drawing inspiration from the same sources, but not each other.
23
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Re: Greco, Romana and Ghetz's Name Origin (Possibly)
« on: August 25, 2010, 02:31:58 pm »
According to the chrono compendium character page they are indeed named after the musicians. However, since this topic was a year ago the page may have been edited after this discovery was made. Anyone know which came first?
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Greco.html
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Greco.html
24
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Re: Should AD and BC have been used in the Chrono series?
« on: August 25, 2010, 02:22:53 pm »
Were the terms BC and AD used in the Japanese version of the game, or only the English translation?
25
Dream Splash III - Chrono Break [2010] / Re: Teaser Poster
« on: August 23, 2010, 04:44:14 pm »
I like the design. The glowing gem and way you used light and shadow is very nice. Definitely an ominous feel. I agree that the chain should probably be different to match the actual pendant better, but as a first draft it is already well done. Good work!
26
General Discussion / Re: Whats YOUR Favourite Game?
« on: August 23, 2010, 03:48:08 pm »
I really like many games, and could make lists as some have that would also include many of the same games. But if I had to pick an absolute favorite it would be the Ultima Underworld Series (The Stygian Abyss and Labyrinth of Worlds).
27
General Discussion / Re: ACTA
« on: August 23, 2010, 03:22:19 pm »
This has a lot of good and bad potential, depending on how it used and what for.
On one hand being able to legitimately go after people mass producing fake products that people are buying unknowingly (big in Hong Kong) is a good thing. They would not be able to use being in another country as an excuse to avoid punishment.
On the other hand being ability to confiscate generic medicine and potentially fine people who are buying it (such as people buying cheaper medicine in Canada because they are unable to afford it in the US, which is usually the same thing but considerably marked up) seems silly.
Being able to go above the U.S. court systems and levy punishments to people is where it gets a little scary.
In a court ruling if people do not like a decision made they can appeal, voice concerns, run petitions, elect different officials to vote on amendments, et cetera. But since this is considered a treaty the only one really having any say is the President. So if there is a ruling in the future and the court ruling is a person was within their rights to post something fake on line the countries that are a part of this treaty could potential say I do not think so and still punish the person regardless of the individual country's ruling.
It is a step towards global law, which I can understand because information and the economy are now global entities. I do not know all the facts about this but it is odd that there appears to be a good deal of secrecy surrounding it.
There is a wikipedia article, a UK perspective, and an educated breakdown to help people get more information on it.
On one hand being able to legitimately go after people mass producing fake products that people are buying unknowingly (big in Hong Kong) is a good thing. They would not be able to use being in another country as an excuse to avoid punishment.
On the other hand being ability to confiscate generic medicine and potentially fine people who are buying it (such as people buying cheaper medicine in Canada because they are unable to afford it in the US, which is usually the same thing but considerably marked up) seems silly.
Being able to go above the U.S. court systems and levy punishments to people is where it gets a little scary.
In a court ruling if people do not like a decision made they can appeal, voice concerns, run petitions, elect different officials to vote on amendments, et cetera. But since this is considered a treaty the only one really having any say is the President. So if there is a ruling in the future and the court ruling is a person was within their rights to post something fake on line the countries that are a part of this treaty could potential say I do not think so and still punish the person regardless of the individual country's ruling.
It is a step towards global law, which I can understand because information and the economy are now global entities. I do not know all the facts about this but it is odd that there appears to be a good deal of secrecy surrounding it.
There is a wikipedia article, a UK perspective, and an educated breakdown to help people get more information on it.
28
Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: A passing thought
« on: August 23, 2010, 02:44:16 pm »
Interesting. A few months ago a friend of mine moved from D.C. to Oregon. It seems like people are making their way West this year. I have heard that Oregon is beautiful and the temperatures already sound much better than the eastern and southern US. Unless you do not like colder weather, though I suppose if that were the case you would not have moved in the first place. Glad your move was successful and I hope things continue to go well for you.
29
General Discussion / Re: Where Are You From...?
« on: July 11, 2008, 05:49:35 pm »
I currently live in Manassas, Virginia, USA.
30
General Discussion / Re: ZeaLitY's Youtube Guide to Great 80s
« on: July 10, 2008, 05:54:38 pm »Instrumentalism's last bastion is rock, but with crap like Nickelback coming out, talent's being pushed even farther back to heavy / true metal.
I agree with just about everything you said in your first few posts about music in general, though I would like to ask why you think Nickelback is crap?
They're too emo without being emo.
I'd say My Chem and Bullet for my Valentine are ruining Rock.
Interesting. I agree that My chemical Romance is emo. I do not know if I have heard Bullet for my Valentine, what is a popular song they make? I never thought of Nickelback as emo, but I also have only heard a handful of their songs. My younger sister likes My Chemical Romance, though I do not like them. Emo bands seem to becoming more popular with the emo generation. Not sure if they are ruining rock so much as they are changing the popular sound of rock. It happens every generation or few. I do not like it, but it is also not what I grew up with. In 10 or 20 years they will probably be saying the same thing.
Anyway, I will try to get a list together to contribute to the thread. I was only a kid in the 80s but I listen to enough music to hear a lot of things from that period. It will be based purely on music I like though, since I know very littel about social impact or anything else that might affect what songs I would list as great 80s songs.