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Messages - Legend of the Past

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31
Actually, as far as EVA goes, I'm forced to agree-the names really don't have anything to do. There aren't any ACTUAL biblical refferences-they're all pretty name tags you know and recognize which happen to have something to do with the plot. Wait.. now, who does that remind me, then?

Now, if you don't think plot matters, sure, do what you want. It just strikes me as odd-you want to hear the idea, but are wholly unintrested in how the writer worked to trasmit it. I mean, what did the writer work for months for? The theme is usually there from the start-you find your theme and build the plot from the way up. But here's the point-it's only the foundation, the deep idea. Now, if a skilled plot-writer were to take a good theme and be able to use it properly he could create a plot EQUALLY good. Now, Socrates took the theme of tragedy-what would THAT be without the tale of Antigone and Oedipus? Nothing. This is where plot and theme differ, I think-you can send a good plot with a bad theme, but you can NEVER send a good theme without a good plot and expect it to work. I don't just admire the plot, I admire the theme and how a creator can manipulate the theme as he does, like a sculptor can shape clay. You have a plot that is sad, that indeed, brings tears in your eyes. Japanese writers do, actually, insert emotions into their work. AiR is a perfect example of it-it brought me to tears three times, two of which I cried outright.  Now, does that mean the plot got to me? Probably. However, for a plot to get to me, a good theme HAS to be there. It can be a theme I can understand-everyday life, certain strifes in our existence, or bigger questions-or, on the other hand, it can be an abstract theme which I cannot completely grasp, but I feel it's grandness, I feel it's beauty. Perhaps you never will get the way anime works-and if so, I guess that's your loss. However, I comprehend it, and it very much moves me to tears at times. I can recognize many of themes, for example, Harle's quete in Chrono Cross- "If you do not keep going, reality will cursh you. Reality will kill you. And reality will keep going as if nothing ever happened, leaving your crushed body behind." This is, to me, a very relevant quote-If I can't keep up with the world, if I dawdle or don't think, reality's weight will crush me and leave me with nothing, and a very unlikely chance of EVER getting forward.

Now, for something I for whatever reason neglected to say- I AM a fanboy. Just as I am a nerd. You make it sound extremly bad, but those are passions-intense passions-probably rash, but then am I not in the age of rashness?-of art I  appreciate. Now, you might not see from my point of view, but neither do I see yours. Now, I'd like you not to get agitated with me and just listen here, as I very much regret having bashed you here- what rather pisses me off is that you refuse to, at the very least, take my word for it ONCE. That's what I meant earlier-Watch a single anime from the list I gave you-if you truly find it flawed and very much against you, I'll give it up. Perhaps Evangelion is NOT the best choice for you-it's very much insane but has it's own sort of beauty imbeeded inside it's crazy depths. Now, assuming you take X or Wolf's Rain, both of which I highly recommend, you certainly won't find Homer or any new themes. But you would find something good, two animes which I consider to be the top of all anime. Now, if you don't like them-fine, I'll leave you alone with this for good and there'll be no more bashing of any type as to anime.  I guess this is me being a defensive, rash fanboy? But that's me, eh? I've always enjoyed things that transmit emotion very well,  ANY emotion, and anime fills this role perfectly. If you REALLY don't want to bother with anime, if you're REALLY sure you can't give me a break here and at least try those animes I tell you, don't do it. This is an offer, neither an attempt to force you nor an attempt to bash you. I'd just like you to at least get a taste of what I consider good, because so far you've seen nothing which I've seen\considered very good. Princess Mononoke was good, for example, but the plot is very simplistic and the theme is very redundant. Now, in the advent of you actually taking up my offer-never judge by the first episode.

I just hope you're not too angry with me-I admit to being wrong and perhaps a bit too hotheaded (also note that 'stupidest thing I've ever heard' thing was done about 15 minutes after I woke up and I was sort of half-awake. I take it back-it seemed stupid to me, but I've certainly heard dumber things. I apologize for that sincerely). Hope it won't wound your opinion of me, I hate it when my rashness does that to me.

32
General Discussion / Re: May I ask for your opinion on a work of mine?
« on: September 19, 2006, 08:38:29 am »
Josh isn't a play on the Israeli leader, no.

Well, to point something out-this prologue isn't here to intrdocue characters. All of the events there, consequence, etc, are expanded upon in chapters 5, 6, 7 and 8-the first introduce the main protagonists and their respective situtation. The characters in this prologue, other than Tobias, truly have zero importantce. They are background characters, who are named only for the sake of convenience-they might as well be nameless and it would hardly matter, because they only push the plot wagon for a bit, until the main narrative takes over. If I feel something needs expanding or true introduction, I will devote more than 5000 words for it. It's abrupt, indeed. And how does it seem to someone who's there? Josh is talking about Middle-Eastern relics, and suddenly, without any apparent reason or explanation, a kid faints. This prologue touches on the plot, because events are deeply immersed and sunken into the background plot. What you see now is the beggining of something that had begun in Genesis and moved on forward to modern day. Now, you don't know what I'm talking about. From Episode 01 and forward, I'll drop hints, until the final revelation towards the end. But to put it simply, this is a story about humanity, the sins man could never knew he's done, the accusation of life against man and the eventual attempt at letting man recieve a bit of redemption. I  had a friend read it, and he commented upon saying I moved away from action and sci-fi and moved straight into dillemas-what is redemption? What is man? How does God view man? How does all life view man?

Now, you said I write like a young adult-well, what did you expect from a sixteen year old? I'm still learning, still building my style, still searching for how to write right and how to write like me in the same time. Flow issues, proper insertion of the plot, and still writing in a style that's unique to me-that's what I'm building. That's why I should say-this is a first draft. This is me working on the story to put the flesh and muscles on the skeleton I've managed to build-which I'm told is built fairly well. Now, this is centered around the Jewish mythos-so I have infinite sources to draw from and ask in case if I'm uncertain or trying to build the plot further, adding more motifs or events. It's a stretch for me to expect to write this perfectly on this first attempt-I'm not even out of high school! But, if I keep writing this first draft, see my mistakes and holes, I'll be able to fix this well enough. Now, I think, if I may voice my opinion on my style (a thing I rarely do), that this is a step forward for me. This is the first time I think of this as a book-other times, I was too centered on games and had a hard time imagning battles and events in story format. This is a step forward, because now I can get a certain idea of how to write and how to keep going about it. I've constantly ditched stories, mainly because I saw I simply CAN'T go on with them. I can't have a random battle popping up or an animation. I was thinking too visually, if you will, too much like a gamer. This story is therefore, to my eyes, a step forward, because now I'm finally starting to write STORIES instead of games.

But yeah, I agree the prologue needs refining-but like I said, I'm still in trial and error, so for now I'll keep it as it is, and once I get more of an idea of how to do it better, what to add and remove, and how to make it flow I'll get back to fixing it. Right now, I simply can't see how to improve it-while I certainly see it needs improvement. For that reason I posted it here, to see where it went wrong so I can use that knowledge once I've taken my writing up a notch. 

33
You know what really annoys me? You're so sure you actually KNOW that Anime isn't for you tastes. You know what is it that really attracts anime? There's a little something for everyone. You like fighting, martial arts and eye candy? You have Naruto. You like drama and touching plots? AiR, or Kimi Ga Nozomou Eien. You like psychological motifs? Evangelion.

On a side note, Anno and Miyazaki are old friends from back in the eighties. You can say Anno honed his arts at some Miyazaki things. Now, perhaps you wouldn't like Evangelion-plenty of immature humour and it is, with all honesty, a very very weird anime, albeit still beautiful. Now, just for some random, unlogical, unthinkable idea-

How about you watch it before you condem it? It won't kill you. There's plenty of anime out there, some of them without juvenile humour. If you don't like it, which is fine, you can find plenty serious anime-X, which you seem to reject time after time without giving a glance. Not a single bit of tasteless humour there. Or Wolf's Rain? A beautiful, touching anime, and no eye candy or jokes about it.

The latter is extremely recommended for anyone with eyes and ears. I should make my dog watch it on occaison.

Regardless, though, if you were to watch ONE anime that isn't stupid idiocy (DBZ), eye-candy (Naruto) or plain-old cheap porn (Girls Bravo), like Evangelion, Wolf's Rain, AiR, X, even Tsubasa Chronicle! I'd really leave you alone about this particular topic. No, you don't understand the Japanese way-because you never tried to learn it! You might argue it doesn't intrest you, but you don't even know what it's about-you just cancel it because you think it doesn't have what you like. Note on THINK.

34
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You declaimed me for a totally tangental topic I never commented on.

If I REALLY want to get nitpicky, you said he was just allusive, but nothing to do with names. To me it seemed you said Woosley was the better creator. That seemed absurd, on the grounds that someone like Woosley could be considered better than they guy that made CC's Belthasar...


Oh, Jeal and Zeal are the same thing in Japanese, unless I'm terribly mistaken. -_-

You're mistaken :P Z sound is made from putting a tenten (") on a S character. J is made by putting a tenten on the shi character. It makes it into Ji.

Uh... I'd like to get Aura's acount on that, your knowledge of Japanese has been known to fail before, Zaper. No offense, but I'd like a Japanese speaker's opinion.

Quote from: Dan
However, on a matter of sheer opinion, I do far prefer the English, for the very reason outlined. I actually dislike much of anime and Japanese games for this and related reasons

Yes, since you've seen loads of anime and played every Japanese game to date, right?

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Chrono Trigger being one of the few I still like

And one of the few you really saw, too.

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but when they do they seem to have no idea how to use them properly, and so it tends to look extremely silly and juvenile to those that have any idea about the actual things

..Of which you have a very low understanding of the plot of the series as a whole, thus uncapable of knowing if Nephilim has anything to do with fallen ones or not. Proto Merkabah even made sense in a way. And you haven't played Xenogears, have you?


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Fortunately, Chrono Trigger seems to avoid this, the Japanese being, well, Japanese, and the English English.

Yeah, but then you might of missed what the original writer was trying to tell you! Woosley butchered the 'Planet=Entity' theory which is, unless you've totally missed the point, the most central theme of the Chrono series and very instrumental to the plot. It's not just taking a few liberties, it'd delibrately messing with the point. Imagine someone would take your Nephilim, change the setting and name Meridith 'Sue', turning into a Tom Clancy like story. It's no longer about making a story more easy to understand-it's changing your idea, squashing them and pushing them away. Something you write comes from YOU, and changing what you wrote, and released, thinking it would do well, is like depriving you of opinion and your freedom of speech-if you want that, go ahead. I, for one, prefer to have my works themselves kept intact-if anyone wants to make fandom from them, by all means,  but at least stick to what I did, damnit.

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And if someone were to say they prefer the movie Troy to the Iliad, I would most definitely not proclaim it 'the most stupid comment in memory.'

But if someone were to say the director of Troy was wiser than Homer? -_-

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what about LOTR? Oh, wait, Jackson made things up? He left out Tom Bombadil? Scandalous! How dare he! Oh, wait, it's a different sort of audience...

~Cough~Warcraft~Cough~

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The plot didn't take drastically different tones. Just certain elements. And honestly, it's none of my business. Art is a collective possession, and many great works would not exist if not for writers feeling they have the right to change someone else's story.

Like I said earlier...

Quote from: Moi
Yeah, but then you might of missed what the original writer was trying to tell you! Woosley butchered the 'Planet=Entity' idea which is, unless you've totally missed the point, the most central theme of the Chrono series and very instrumental to the plot.

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Art is a collective possession, and many great works would not exist if not for writers feeling they have the right to change someone else's story.

Yes, but the plot was never changed, was it? Even if it was, never so badly. You still might get a bit of an idea of what Tolkien envisioned as a plot because most of it is intact. However, if you look at CT, important themes were left out, which were only understood later on upon inspection of CC and the original Japanese release. If the original release and the translation are so apart... I'm sorry, I'd rather read the plot and know it's the actual plot, other than a holed story with a pretty cover. I want to know what Belthasar really did, not have him named after some biblical wise man who gave some carpenter baby a gift.

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You must remember, Legend, I began as a fanfiction writer - taking liberties with others' material is something I am well versed in an can appreciate.

..But you continued the plot. You didn't change the original work.

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By the way, that Mammon argument is silly. They didn't know what Mammon is? Well, then I suppose they don't know what a 'Chrono' is either, eh?

Yes, well, they never called it time, have they? Crono is a name, and Chrono Trigger is a device that channels dreams to change events that have already happened. But whatever, this is a 1995 game, things then weren't as clever as they are today (which, if you'd see more modern Japanese things other than Miyazaki and some SE RPG's (which aren't the highlight of Japanese society, I'm afraid) you might notice that.

35
General Discussion / Re: May I ask for your opinion on a work of mine?
« on: September 18, 2006, 05:19:42 pm »
Really good. the litature in it is deep. when will you write more?

Thank you. I've already written two more chapters, but I'll post them once I get some more replies.

36
General Discussion / May I ask for your opinion on a work of mine?
« on: September 18, 2006, 12:58:24 pm »
Well, I'm writing a story of mine, and have been somewhat uncertain on where to put. ZeaLitY suggested putting it here (as it's not Chrono fanfiction or anything of that effect) so here it is. I'd like to know what you think, so do reply with suggestions for imporvement or any other qualms you may have.

Prologue


"Well, kids, we're going to enter the museum," Said Mrs.Parker, teacher of class 10-A, "be careful not to touch anything. If you break anything, it'll come out of your pockets, and things around here aren't cheap." she glared at a group of boys meancingly, "That includes you." she hissed warningly.

The teacher then turned and said: "Everyone follow me in an orderly fashion."

The children followed the teacher, who was just greeted by a young man who worked by the muesum. He had short blonde hair and a very pointed face, and he seemed very tall and very skinny. He wore a casual blue T-shirt and a pair of jeans, with a name tag on his chest.

"Hello there, kids," said the man. "I'm Josh, your instructor for this short visit in the muesum. Now, if I'm not mistaken, this is not your first visit here?"

Several kids replied with a 'yes', to which Josh nodded.

"Very well, so today we'll be going to the eastern wing of the museum." Josh continued, "We'll be seeing quite a few treasures from the Middle and Far East, which we have quite a few relics of, dating back to what we believe is as far as the Battle of Jericho. We will split to two groups, one group will go with me and the other will stay with the teacher and wait for the other instructor who will return shortly."

The teacher pulled a name list from her bag and drew a line with her pen after the 18th student.

"The ones who are above the line are your group," Said Mrs.Parker, handing the name list to the instructor, "be sure to check everyone's here... Ah, mark out the one who's number eleven in the list, he didn't show up today.."

Josh nodded and crossed out the name.

"We should be done with this part of the tour in about an hour," Josh said, "and we'll meet back here for lunch."

"Alright," The teacher nodded and turned to lead her students out.

Josh called to his group of students: "Okay, everyone in the list until Luther, David please follow me."

Seventeen of the sudents gathered around Josh who led them out. They walked slowly down the halls for a few minutes until Josh stopped in front of a pair of large white steel doors.

"This is the Middle-East exhibit." Josh said, turning to face the students. "We'll be seeing many items that were found in Israel, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, among many others. The security here is very delicate, so try not to touch anything. Also, keep in mind there are other visitors here, so please try to be quiet."

Some of the students nodded in agreement and Josh pushed the doors opened. The children walked into the large room beyond the doors, and saw many exhibitions surrounded glass cases around them. Floruscent lamps lighted the room brightly, and the walls were painted a brown-red, and the smooth floor was colored blue. Josh walked to one of the cases and told the students,

"If you could turn your attention here, you'll see a few spears that came from Babylon. They originiate back to around the sixth century B.C., and have been very well preserved, so they look almost like they did originally, give or take cracks and other cosmetic matters."

The kids glanced at the spears for a few moments, some of them with awe, and Josh moved onwards to another item protected by a glass case. It was a blue gemstone covered by red, sharp-looking crystals.

"This is a fairly new article here in the muesum," Josh said, and gestured towards the stone. "we only got it a few months ago, and we're pleased to have it here. It's passed quite a few hands, and is very valuable. This stone was found in the Dead Sea in Israel a few years ago, due to the falling of the sea level because of a very hot few years in Israel. It was discovered in a natural cave, and the red crystliazation is said to have been formed by the many salts in the Dead Sea."

The students looked with intrest at the stone, at how the light reflected through the jewels. Among these was Tobias Zaiben, who looked just as chramed as his classmates. But the more he looked, the warmer it seemed to get in the museum, and Tobias wondered if the air conditioning in the place had failed. Then came the tingling feeling in his fingers, which spread throughout his body rapidly, like a bad rash. Tobias flexed every muscle he could, hoping it would make the uncomfortable feeling go away, but the flexing made it worse, he realized a moment later-a sharp pain shot through him, as if his head was being split apart.
As the boy collapsed to the floor, moaning with pain, a few of the children gasped in shock, while Josh grabbed the boy by his shoulders and examined him.

"He's... sweating." He said, and looked at the boy's quivering eyelids. "Like... a bad dream."

The boy gasped and turned, and then, despite all he could hear a moment ago was a painful hum in his ears, he heard something clearly, very clearly:

an animalistic howl, breaking apart clouds and winds, on the fifth day of creation.

37
Woosly is more clever and allusive than Kato.

You've just said the single most stupid thing anyone has EVER said in ANY subject to my memory.

And why praytell is that? I request you back that up with proof. Just because Kato made up the characters, does not make him better in so far as names are concerned.  Woosly's names are far more allusive and fitting than any Kato had. That is irrefutable. Which one LIKES better is a matter of opinion, but I did not say outright 'Woosly is better than Kato.' I merely said the name he employed are far superior: Zeal to Jeal, Janus to Jaki, and so forth. Actually, I didn't even go so far. I merely said that they are more clever and allusive. That is simple fact. Almost none of Kato's names are allusive or clever, they are simply names; Kato's on the other hand draw from mythological sources, often identifying with the character. 'Demon God Machine' vs. 'Mammon Machine' - the first is a descrption of what it is in relation to Lavos, a simple descrption of what it is, whilst the second draws from literary sources. How is this comment so absolutely stupid? Woosly is simply more literary than Kato is - get over it.

Thus, your comment has just backfired: it was simply foolish to blast me for the truth, and makes you look silly. You just reverted to fanboyism. Congratulations, Legend. Next time back up your comment, rather than just speaking fiery nonesense.

Not really. You didn't really seem to get the point why right about EVERYONE here hate Woosly-he changed the plot of Crono to fit it into the game. Now, honestly, Kato wasn't one bit original when it came to naming, but neither did Woosly-The Gurus aren't original names, Schala is Sara with an addition, because in the transition between Japanese and English R's and L's alternate(diallect more than anything). Marle has ZERO meaning, actually. In Japanese, she was called Maru, with Nadia being Marudia. Thus, you have Marle slipping over her tognue, saying part of the name.  As for the Mammon Machine-you count overmuch about fan translation. Things in Japanese have rarely one meaning, and I'm sure the Mammon Machine has AT LEAST one more meaning.

Also, you seem to mistake one thing-The Zealians should have no idea what Mammon even is. The term doesn't exist in that world. You see, Woosly made things more simple so the stupid americans could understand them. You therefore ask, where did the Zealians ever LEARN that word? Answer? There is none. It's a Wooslyism. Loads of things got lost in translation because of that. I'm not being fanboyistic-I'm bashing Woosly for messing with a plot he had nothing to do with it's creation. Janus and Schala never were half-brothers. They were blood brothers. However, Woosly, for whatever dumb reason, decided to change it. If YOUR work would be so bluntly changed, so much the plot starts taking different tones than what you originally intendended and wanted,  would YOU be pleased?

Oh, Jeal and Zeal are the same thing in Japanese, unless I'm terribly mistaken. -_-

38
Woosly is more clever and allusive than Kato.

You've just said the single most stupid thing anyone has EVER said in ANY subject to my memory.

39
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Did Schala cross to our dimension?
« on: September 16, 2006, 09:25:43 am »
Check the Lab maps from 2300 A.D. There are crosswalks and ruined cars. She merely went to the future.

I'm not exactally with you on this one.

I don't remember the future having a "primitive" rail road system, or a rail road system at all. We definitely know that they used cars.

Actually, in the Dead Sea there's a train section. You know, the ghost that muses about missing the train. The Dead Sea and 2300 A.D. are roughly the same in terms of what we'll find in there (other than the obvious changes of the Tower of Geddon and the Frozen Flame). Technology-wise, anything we'll find in the Dead Sea we should be able to locate in the ruin future, 2300 A.D.

40
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Belthasar's Manipulator
« on: August 28, 2006, 06:56:55 am »
Still doesn't make much of a case for controlling the lives of those in El Nido for millennia.

That could of been FATE's own decision, but then we wouldn't want the guys at El-Nido to go about changing history-if one of them were to prevent the CT kids from changing history the effects would be cataclismic-and with all the Dragonian artifacts and Elements abound, it wouldn't be as much of a challange as it may appear.

41
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Belthasar's Manipulator
« on: August 27, 2006, 04:10:54 pm »
Quote
these problems get neatly solved.

Then again, there is this thing with the WHOLE TIMELINE BEING SPLIT IN HALF. The Chrono Cross resolves these problems- the sheer brilliance of Belthasar's plan lies in the very idea that he can mess everything up like crazy and then put it neatly back together, better than before. The Chrono Cross was an essential part of the plan, so why not use it to free Schala, too?

42
General Discussion / Re: Disney Create Paradoxes
« on: August 25, 2006, 02:43:33 am »
IIRC, the Little Mermaid contains a priest who is visibly overly excited during the marriage ceremony.

It always looked his knee to me. Disney was always blamed for their movies having porn in their movies. Except for 'Who framed Roger Rabbit', where they DID cut a porn pic.

43
General Discussion / Disney Create Paradoxes
« on: August 24, 2006, 03:28:48 pm »
It's a well known fact that mermen and mermaids are fish. However, a certain mermaid called Ariel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kingdom_Hearts_Ariel.jpg, has both a navel and breasts. A navel is a scar formed by the cutting of the umblical cord, and only mammles are connected to their mothers by umblical cords, and breasts are mammle-reserved organs. So, if we put aside the fact Disney wanted to make Ariel more recognizable to viewers, how should I see this? Stupidity? Carelessness? Or maybe they define mermaids in a different way? 

44
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Moon Discrepancy
« on: August 21, 2006, 06:39:09 pm »
The Chrono Cross is said to be a Rainbow Element-combined of all colors. Harle's Level 7 Tech seems rather rainbow colored to me.. And of course, if you combine CT's three elements you get Shadow Magic, which is comparable to Black Innates. And what with the Chrono Cross being the 'Lost Element'...

Back to the merge, though-Harle is never stated to be a part of the Dragon God, nor is she needed as a part of the Dragon God, nor does the Dragon God display her powers. Simply put, she was either destroyed or just left be. She stayed away from Serge from shame of betraying him, and stayed clear of the Dragon God as Serge's encounter with him was inevtiable. She could of went into hiding and the Dragon God wouldn't really care-she did what she had to do. For all he cares, she could deposit the Flame on the summit of Terra Tower and then leap off the edge, crash into the sea, and die.

And then there's the usual explanation of how Harle wasn't there before the split, etc etc.

45
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Moon Discrepancy
« on: August 15, 2006, 06:22:26 am »

Like I already said, her mission was to remove the flame from Chronopolis to free her brothers and sisters. If Harle has their power and they desperately need it, then they absorbed her for that reason. But as I said, the ending already shows us that she does not need to be absorbed in order for them to do their thing.

The Dragons wouldn't need Serge-Lynx took care of accessing the Flame for them. The manipulation could of ended in Another's Fort Dragonia, really, but instead they pushed him to go on to Chronopolis. If Harle was supposed to get the Flame, and by staying with Dark Serge she could access it, then her mission should of ended right there. Instead, the Dragons chose Serge as their liberator. That's what the game says. You can take up any complaints you have towards Kato and\or the translators of the game.

I agree, however, that Harle isn't a part of the Dragon God-There was a Dragon God before her and he uses only six Elements. If he had Harle merged with him he would of certainly used a seventh. But he doesn't need to-Harle isn't present in the merge, nor is she a needed part, because, like I said before, the Dragon God was there even BEFORE Harle.

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