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Messages - Eske

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241
Arc Impulse has reported this in response to the supposition that Eclipse Magus didn't travel with Crono & co, so everyone take notice:

Quote from: Arc Impulse
???「ここには、もうラヴォスはいない。
ここはすでにラヴォスが倒された
未来の時空だ。
俺たちがヤツを滅ぼした。

???: Lavos is no longer here.
This is a future timespace where
Lavos has already been defeated.
We destroyed him.
[I find it curious that this future(?) Magus refers to himself throughout this ending as 'ore'--
Magus in the rest of CT refers to himself as 'watashi' everywhere but a single scene.]

Magus「もっとも、お前たちが
やってきた世界で
俺たちが手を組んでいたかどうかは
知らぬがな。

Magus: Although I don't know
whether or not I joined forces
with you, in the world you come from.
[He said this to me with Magus in my party, so I assume he says the same thing no matter what.]


Quote from: Arc Impulse
...I think the Japanese version all but explicitly tells us that Eclipse Magus did indeed join up with Crono's party.  The fact that he says "we" defeated Lavos -- in a language where you only bother using the plural when you're making a specific point -- and the line about "I don't know whether I joined up with you guys in your world" heavily implies "but I did join up with you in my world."  To me this seems like the biggest oversight in the English adaptation -- the translator/adaptor got all caught up in making Magus sound all kewl and philosophical and deep as they consistently do throughout CTDS, and accidentally obscured this specific fact in the process.

I was actually starting to really like the idea of Eclipse Magus coming from an unknown alternate dimension, so can the backers come up with some kind of theoretical rebuttal? :mrgreen:

Well I'll say it again:

Quote from: Eske
1. Dimension A: Chrono and Co. defeat Lavos
2. Dimension A: Magus goes out to find Schala
3. Dimension B: Chrono and Co. stumble upon dimensional distortions instead of fighting Lavos
4. Dimensional Distortions: Dimension B Chrono Team learns of Dalton's plans, defeat some clones and enter  Time's Eclipse
5. Time's Eclipse: Dimension B Chrono Team meets Dimension A Magus, who references the battle with Lavos
6. Time's Eclipse: Dimension B Chrono Team defeat the Dream Devourer but are sent back to their own time. Magus has his memories erased and is sent somewhere.
7. Dimension A: Dalton invades Guardia, Chrono Team A is blindsided because only Team B was informed.
   And life goes on...

  :D  maybe?  not really a rebuttal lol  I'm really happy with the Japanese version.

242
Maybe they are saving the CT franchise for when Final Fantasy finally dies. (my guess is after XVI lol).
No sense in running two series into the ground at the same time. If thats the case, we'll at least get some teaser remake of ct/cc every few years  =)

glad the sales are high.

243
Ah, well I wasn't focused so much on the party as I was on Magus.  I can't believe some version of him found a way
to enter TE directly which I'm assuming is the DBT.  Finding his way to the Day of Lavos (post battle) and finding an entryway to TE from there made more sense to me.  oh well  =(   

244
Okay, so wait, when the party takes the bucket to Time's Eclipse, do they actually end up at 1999 post Lavos defeat and then follow Magus II into a gate which then takes them to TE?   Or is it TE right from the start?  I don't have the game so I can't check that mini map.

Also looking at the YouTube videos with Dalton, it seems like he was aware of the party's presence and just cuts them off suddenly.  Then after the fight, he announces his plans for Porre and Guardia and then disappears at will.  Hmm.  It feels like he knows too much (concerning Guardia/Porre).  I wonder if he has found some vantage point (at least for 1000AD), much like the one Gaspar and Spekkio have at the EoT.  Who knows where he ended up after being pulled into the golem portal.

And back to Magus II: He says "we've defeated..." in the english version but does he say that in the japanese version or something more like "he was defeated...".    May not seem like much of a difference but if its the second option than he may not have been involved with the original Lavos fight, supporting the "he is the Prophet" idea. 

245
Quote from: ZeaLitY
12. Can we assume that Magus's wake-up to Schala is the moment Belthasar took advantage of when planning for Schala to be awake long enough to create Kid? (This means Crono's presence pre-Lavos is non-canonical)

Can anyone elaborate on what's in the parentheses here? In any case, it seems that Eclipse Magus may very well be an integral part of Project Kid -- I can easily imagine Schala creating Kid in the moments after she sends Eclipse Magus on his way, and maybe Belthasar realized that Janus was the only one who could possibly get through to her while she's connected to Lavos. There can be no Project Kid without Kid, so it makes sense. The only thing I'm not sure about is how Belthasar would have known that Schala would respond in this way during her brief moment of clarity, but then again he's an omniscient dude.

Given that Eclipse Magus knows a lot about the Dream Devourer's nature and about alternate dimensions in general, it seems he might be working directly with Belthasar. This is very, very cool. As for why Belthasar chose this Magus and not "the Magus we know" for the job, maybe it's because Eclipse Magus has adopted a more noble nature by virtue of whatever he experienced in the alternate dimension.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to emphasize that the Dream Devourer is described as having the ability to devour not only dreams, but memories. A slight hint that Crono & co. maybe had their memories wiped, and it at least allows for the possibility that Schala and not Eclipse Magus wiped his memories out.

Zeality means that Crono and Co. weren't really there to witness the event, its just a device Kato used to have us see it.  Canonically, Crono and Co. go on to defeat Lavos like they did in the original release.

246
Not really sure, just tossing it out there 'cause I like mixing the time travel and dimension travel concepts between
the games =)   

I'm assuming that the concept behind "you can fight the DD in old saves rather than New Game +" represents an alternate world.  You, as the player, defeat Lavos by some means initially but are then given the chance to go back and make a different choice.

1. Dimension A: Chrono and Co. defeat Lavos
2. Dimension A: Magus goes out to find Schala
3. Dimension B: Chrono and Co. stumble upon dimensional distortions instead of fighting Lavos
4. Dimensional Distortions: Dimension B Chrono Team learns of Dalton's plans, defeat some clones and enter  Time's Eclipse
5. Time's Eclipse: Dimension B Chrono Team meets Dimension A Magus, who references the battle with Lavos
6. Time's Eclipse: Dimension B Chrono Team defeat the Dream Devourer but are sent back to their own time. Magus has his memories erased and is sent somewhere.
7. Dimension A: Dalton invades Guardia, Chrono Team A is blindsided because only Team B was informed.
   And life goes on...

247
Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: The technological rise of Porre
« on: January 29, 2008, 02:04:21 am »
I have a more simple explaination to offer.  I don't have any evidence, save for some text in one of CT's endings.

1. Crono and Co. defeat Lavos
2. They come back to 1000 A.D. and say their hellos to everyone
3. They attend the Midnight Parade at Leene Square
4. By talking to some of the characters, you learn that everyone and their brother knows that Crono and Co. saved the future.

Its possible that more details of their adventures leaked out (such as the time travel thing) and Porre felt threatened by such power.  They may have demanded more details about time travel and the gates, but were probably told "the gates are closed forever, don't worry about it."  Fearing that this perceived and misunderstood ability to alter time gave Guardia an incredible militaristic advantage, Porre began a full scale invasion to crush Guardia and "ensure" its own survival.

So there, I said it.  =)

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