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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / Re: 5 years later (CE: SPOILERS)
« on: January 24, 2012, 06:39:07 am »
It is you who does not seem to understand that I do understand.
I have already agreed with you that Glenn's TTI allows him to return to 600 regardless of further changes to the timeline. However, his lack of time-traveling afterward means that his existence/memories after this return to the post-Lavos/pre-King Zeal timeline are NOT secured.
Ah, excuse me. I seem to have misused the term. However, Time Traveler's Immunity is nonetheless of relevance when one starts speaking about "regular timeline deletion"
If, at the beginning of CE, Glenn had traveled from 605 to 1005, met up with Chrono, Lucca and Marle, accompanied them to 2305 and then to -11,995 where the Masamune was taken- The Glenn in CE would be the one who had lived for 5 years in a timeline where the Masamune and Cyrus were still present in history, even though this past was then changed by King Zeal's actions. He would not have lost his memories of this time. After the disappearance of the Masamune, he would then return to a 605 A.D. to find a world in which he, upon his return in 600 A.D. had founded the Vanguard, but would have personally no memory of this, since the Glenn who did that would have become a Time Bastard in 605 A.D. at the point where Glenn left this timeline to meet Chrono, Lucca and Marle in the present.
Since, however, he missed this chance, he loses his Immunity to temporal changes and becomes changed with the timeline.
Exactly. Glenn was granted TTI at his arrival in 600 AD after the defeat of Lavos, and he would have been granted it again, had he traveled in 605 AD before the actions of King Zeal, as postulated above. As, however, he did not, he was not immune to said changes, as were Crono, Magus and Glenn himself later on during the Reptite Time-Line Event.
A further interesting question is: What happens when "regular timeline deletion" occurs? Is the person physically the same instance, and is therefore nothing sent to the Darkness Beyond Time? Is it merely a memory-rearrangement executed by the timeline itself? (This would tend to support Bekkler's "Smart Time"-Theory)
I have already agreed with you that Glenn's TTI allows him to return to 600 regardless of further changes to the timeline. However, his lack of time-traveling afterward means that his existence/memories after this return to the post-Lavos/pre-King Zeal timeline are NOT secured.
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This is not Time Bastard. Time Bastard is the removal of alt-timeline versions of time travelers when they reach the age at which their time travel occurred. Marle/Lucca/Robo were erased by regular timeline deletion.
Ah, excuse me. I seem to have misused the term. However, Time Traveler's Immunity is nonetheless of relevance when one starts speaking about "regular timeline deletion"
If, at the beginning of CE, Glenn had traveled from 605 to 1005, met up with Chrono, Lucca and Marle, accompanied them to 2305 and then to -11,995 where the Masamune was taken- The Glenn in CE would be the one who had lived for 5 years in a timeline where the Masamune and Cyrus were still present in history, even though this past was then changed by King Zeal's actions. He would not have lost his memories of this time. After the disappearance of the Masamune, he would then return to a 605 A.D. to find a world in which he, upon his return in 600 A.D. had founded the Vanguard, but would have personally no memory of this, since the Glenn who did that would have become a Time Bastard in 605 A.D. at the point where Glenn left this timeline to meet Chrono, Lucca and Marle in the present.
Since, however, he missed this chance, he loses his Immunity to temporal changes and becomes changed with the timeline.
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You know, I'm not sure if this is a good explanation, but it might be better to think of TTI as an event applied to every time travel, not a status granted by time traveling.
Exactly. Glenn was granted TTI at his arrival in 600 AD after the defeat of Lavos, and he would have been granted it again, had he traveled in 605 AD before the actions of King Zeal, as postulated above. As, however, he did not, he was not immune to said changes, as were Crono, Magus and Glenn himself later on during the Reptite Time-Line Event.
A further interesting question is: What happens when "regular timeline deletion" occurs? Is the person physically the same instance, and is therefore nothing sent to the Darkness Beyond Time? Is it merely a memory-rearrangement executed by the timeline itself? (This would tend to support Bekkler's "Smart Time"-Theory)
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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / Re: 5 years later (CE: SPOILERS)
« on: January 23, 2012, 07:30:28 pm »Quote from: Acacia Sgt.
Regarding Glenn, I bring up again the Reptite arc example. The events Marle, Lucca, and Robo witnessed got erased when the Human time line got restored. The situation with Glenn above would be the same if you could never play the Reptite 1 AD and 2305 AG scenarios. Whatever they would do you don't get to see it because due to the structure of the game and/or plot, even though you know they did entered the Reptite time line but the game picks up again with the them who entered the restored time line.
Not to mention, you can't visit 605 AD until after King Zeal removes the Masamune, so that's another reason why it is the one who entered the Vanguard time line.
The Marle, Lucca and Robo who experienced the Reptite-timeline were, after the intervention of Glenn, Crono and Magus, eliminated from existence. They were banished to the Darkness Beyond Time and replaced by a Marle, a Lucca and a Robo who were sent by King Zeal into an unaltered time-line. The former ceases to exist and is replaced by the latter- this is the very essence of ,,Time Bastard". If you want to postulate that this is merely memory-wiping without any physical replacement, you may do so, but it would be an unfounded distinction with no change for the end result.
Quote from: Acacia Sgt.
Not really, if he had lost it, we wouldn't have seen him in the Vanguard Time Line then. The TTI is only the entrance to the time line. Whatever happens to the individual in whatever time line it is entering is fair game, as it is only it's being entering the time line that is secured, whatever happens after is not.
You are only confirming my theory, for this means that he had TTI up to a certain point, the point at which he stopped time-traveling. Through his temporal travels, he secured his existence in 600 A.D. However, as he was not an active participant in the events precluding the disappearance of the Masamune, he was not spared by the change, and the original version of him, who arrived in 600 and continued to live until his death in a world where the memory of Cyrus and the Masamune were present, ceased to exist. Again, this is Time Bastardization. Those memories and experiences are never recovered for the current Glenn himself, as he, due to his renewed participation in temporal changes, has a new TTI and thus cannot lose his memories and experiences of the Masamune-less timeline.
The same principle applies to the reptite-timeline-incident. Those who continue to participate actively in timeline-changes retain an Immunity which stays current and corresponds to their actions. Those who cease to participate actively lose it starting at the point at which they ceased to do so. This is why Glenn, Crono and Magus, contrary to Marle, Lucca and Robo, still have their memory of the events in the Reptite Time-Line. They themselves were the Chrono Triggers in this incident and on the cutting edge of this 5th dimension.
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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / Re: 5 years later (CE: SPOILERS)
« on: January 21, 2012, 08:36:47 am »
Is there a Chrono Compendium article on this "Smart Time" theory?
The big problem, is this 5-dimensional construct. Why has the Masamune already disappeared for Glenn in 600 in Crimson Echoes but not in Chrono Trigger? If King Zeal took the Masamune in -11995, it should have been impossible to retrieve it and use it to defeat Magus in Chrono Trigger, which led to the defeat of Lavos and set the stage for CE. (If, as is the case with the gates, these eras were proportionately "linked", this might make at least a little more sense.)
The only idea I have is that time functions as a loop and repeats itself indefinitely and every cycle permits a new version of events, evidently through the meddling of time-travelers. This fits in nicely with the scientific indications that the universe is curved and that time and space are parts of one and the same (therefore, time should also be curved). However, this only adds further complications to the idea of Time Traveler's Immunity and does not explain why the Glenn of CE is the one who returned to a Masamune-less world and not the one from the end of CT. Unfortunately, it seems more like a clumsy plot-device than anything else.
Fair enough. Yet this Glenn who had already seen a 600 A.D. with the Masamune has already vanished once, thereby becoming a Bastard of Time. This confirms that Glenn did indeed lose his Time Traveler's Immunity starting from the point of his return to 600 after the defeat of Lavos.
The big problem, is this 5-dimensional construct. Why has the Masamune already disappeared for Glenn in 600 in Crimson Echoes but not in Chrono Trigger? If King Zeal took the Masamune in -11995, it should have been impossible to retrieve it and use it to defeat Magus in Chrono Trigger, which led to the defeat of Lavos and set the stage for CE. (If, as is the case with the gates, these eras were proportionately "linked", this might make at least a little more sense.)
The only idea I have is that time functions as a loop and repeats itself indefinitely and every cycle permits a new version of events, evidently through the meddling of time-travelers. This fits in nicely with the scientific indications that the universe is curved and that time and space are parts of one and the same (therefore, time should also be curved). However, this only adds further complications to the idea of Time Traveler's Immunity and does not explain why the Glenn of CE is the one who returned to a Masamune-less world and not the one from the end of CT. Unfortunately, it seems more like a clumsy plot-device than anything else.
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Yes, the time line he was in got sent to the DBT since a new one came to be when King Zeal removed the Masamune. But no, he didn't loose his TTI, otherwise he wouldn't have appeared in the new 600 AD in that case. Remember that both Glenns (the one who witnessed the unaltered events and the one that did) are the same individual, the only difference is to what time line he is entering. Likewise once the Masamune is restored to it's proper place that very same Glenn will witness the restored 600 AD due to TTI, but of course, by this point it is also a Time Bastard since the Glenn that saw the Vanguard Time Line, at the time the 'current' version of him, made further time travels.
Fair enough. Yet this Glenn who had already seen a 600 A.D. with the Masamune has already vanished once, thereby becoming a Bastard of Time. This confirms that Glenn did indeed lose his Time Traveler's Immunity starting from the point of his return to 600 after the defeat of Lavos.
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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / Re: 5 years later (CE: SPOILERS)
« on: January 18, 2012, 06:24:39 am »And, due to the way these thing works and how the game was structured, we meet this version of Glenn instead of the one who got to witness the unaltered 600 AD.
This is the fishy part. What happened to the Glenn who witnessed the unaltered 600 A.D.? Was he sent to the Darkness Beyond Time? Does this mean, as already postulated, that he lost his TTI after the fight against Lavos?
Obviously it was structured in this way so that, as soon as King Zeal changes history, Glenn would have immediately already established the Vanguard; which is a nice, important plot point. There is just something about it that seems forced.
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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / 5 years later (CE: SPOILERS)
« on: January 17, 2012, 08:24:26 am »
As stated in another thread, I have only recently discovered Crimson Echoes. I am just at the point in the story where King Guardia has been seemingly sent to the Darkness Beyond Time by King Zeal, yet there is an earlier plot point that is still bothering me.
It is explained by Belthasar that the eras visited through the gates (in CT) are linked in their advancement; i.d. The same gate from 1000 that took you to 600 will take you to 605 if you use it in 1005. This inherent link would lead me to believe that Glenn would not have noticed a change in the timeline (caused by King Zeal's meddling) until 605, since this change was produced in -11995 and not in -12000. He would have returned to Guardia, everything would have been as he had left it (as seen in the endings of Chrono Trigger, where he is accompanying the King and Queen), and after 5 years he would suddenly awake to find a changed world- a change of which only he would be aware, due to his Time Traveler's Immunity.
However, in the game itself, he says that he found this world changed already when he returned to 600. It is obviously difficult to be logical about these things since we are dealing with a sort of 5-dimensional causality (time being the 4th and manipulation of events outside the normal stream of time being the fifth), but something seems foul with this plot element. If Glenn discovered the consequences of Zeal's actions in 600, Chrono, Marle and Lucca should also have seen the Vanguard and the absence of Cyrus' grave in Choras in 1000.
The only explanation I can think of, is that one loses Time Traveler's Immunity if one does not continue to actively participate in the events of the 5th dimension. Therefore, since Glenn was not present for the disappearance of the Masamune, he became, after his return to 600, a part of the timeline that was changed, and was changed with it. Therefore, he remembers there having always been a Kasmir since his return to 600, although this was not originally the case. He still has his Masamune and his memories of the way things were before 600, because these were relevant to his time-travels.
This would also explain why Belthasar in 2300 has no Time Traveler's immunity to the events experienced in CE, although he is in fact a Time Traveler from -12000.
The problem posed by this idea is that not all party members were present at King Zeal's removal of the Masamune in -11995. Should these therefore not be personally unaware of the change, just as was the case for Belthasar?
Thoughts? Explanations?
It is explained by Belthasar that the eras visited through the gates (in CT) are linked in their advancement; i.d. The same gate from 1000 that took you to 600 will take you to 605 if you use it in 1005. This inherent link would lead me to believe that Glenn would not have noticed a change in the timeline (caused by King Zeal's meddling) until 605, since this change was produced in -11995 and not in -12000. He would have returned to Guardia, everything would have been as he had left it (as seen in the endings of Chrono Trigger, where he is accompanying the King and Queen), and after 5 years he would suddenly awake to find a changed world- a change of which only he would be aware, due to his Time Traveler's Immunity.
However, in the game itself, he says that he found this world changed already when he returned to 600. It is obviously difficult to be logical about these things since we are dealing with a sort of 5-dimensional causality (time being the 4th and manipulation of events outside the normal stream of time being the fifth), but something seems foul with this plot element. If Glenn discovered the consequences of Zeal's actions in 600, Chrono, Marle and Lucca should also have seen the Vanguard and the absence of Cyrus' grave in Choras in 1000.
The only explanation I can think of, is that one loses Time Traveler's Immunity if one does not continue to actively participate in the events of the 5th dimension. Therefore, since Glenn was not present for the disappearance of the Masamune, he became, after his return to 600, a part of the timeline that was changed, and was changed with it. Therefore, he remembers there having always been a Kasmir since his return to 600, although this was not originally the case. He still has his Masamune and his memories of the way things were before 600, because these were relevant to his time-travels.
This would also explain why Belthasar in 2300 has no Time Traveler's immunity to the events experienced in CE, although he is in fact a Time Traveler from -12000.
The problem posed by this idea is that not all party members were present at King Zeal's removal of the Masamune in -11995. Should these therefore not be personally unaware of the change, just as was the case for Belthasar?
Thoughts? Explanations?
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Other Topics and the Prerelease / Re: Odd Marle picture
« on: January 16, 2012, 06:35:50 am »I'm not saying that things would be the same for those first generations, but that those big changes become not just negligible but non-existent over 13,000 years. So we have a Marle who's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother was not Schala in a new timeline when in the original she was. Given that any daughter Schala would have had would have been living in the Last Village, the daughter of Not-Schala would have had largely the same experiences. Let's be generous and say that a child's development is determined 90% by their parents and 10% by society. Schala would have only had a 45% impact on her daughter's life, and thus Not-Schala's daughter would be missing that 45% impact. Which, with the same situations being applied, means that not a single quirk, bit of knowledge, habit, axiom, etc, would have survived down 13,000 years.
Now we might say that Marle would have been different in some intangible way (after all, New-Marle would have Not-Schala as an ancestor rather than Schala), but given how little a person is influenced by a single individual who lived 13,000 years ago, it goes too far to say that an ancestor couldn't be changed. Indeed, given the population of the Last Village, a lot more people than just Marle would have had Schala as an ancestor; you don't see huge portions of the world disappearing just because Schala got sent to the DBT.
Mind you, this isn't to say that Schala was Marle's ancestor. Just that she could have been and a switch to the timeline wouldn't have been significant enough to erase Marle.
You are forgetting the butterfly effect. Since things would be so different in the first few generations (through different genetics and upbringing), this would almost inevitably cause changes farther down the timeline. It is extremely unlikely that the same circumstances would result with a switched-out ancestor.
Marle has Time-Traveler's Immunity (probably), but this change would apply to her father and the rest of the Guardia Line. I would therefore postulate, that the royal family of Zeal has no relation to that of Guardia, and that, even in the Lavos-Timeline, the pendant somehow landed in the hands of the ancestors of the latter.
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Fan Art / Re: Marle 3D model
« on: January 15, 2012, 09:41:20 am »Quote from: my inner monologue
...why is she grabbing her breast?
scroll down
...why is she standing with her crossbow between her feet?
scroll down
...why is she grabbing her breast?
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Where did the Mystics come from?
« on: January 14, 2012, 02:23:20 pm »
Hm! The theory of the Mystics' origin in Zeal is something that could be handled in Bekkler's "Chrono Shift"-project...
What is the significance of the japanese word translated here as "people"? Perhaps with "people", only the plural of "person" is meant (since "persons" sounds odd in English). Therefore, Spekkio could merely have been speaking of all sentient beings.
So he could have been saying:
During the era of this kingdom, all people (humans + mystics) could use magic.
Afterwards, humans could no longer use magic, but the mystics still could.
Quote from: thought
Speculation insofar as I am extrapolating from given evidence, yes. That evidence itself comes from fairly simple grammatical analysis. We have a speaker referring to a group performing an activity. That speaker then says that the group ceased that activity. The speaker then adds an addendum to that statement giving an exception. Either Spekkio's reference to Mystics/Demons was a non sequitur (a possibility), or he was calling Demons Humans. I am not calling this definitive proof, just valid evidence.
What is the significance of the japanese word translated here as "people"? Perhaps with "people", only the plural of "person" is meant (since "persons" sounds odd in English). Therefore, Spekkio could merely have been speaking of all sentient beings.
So he could have been saying:
During the era of this kingdom, all people (humans + mystics) could use magic.
Afterwards, humans could no longer use magic, but the mystics still could.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: anybody else not care for Chrono Cross?
« on: January 09, 2012, 07:22:25 pm »My main problem is Chrono Trigger left me wanting more of the original characters. Cross added new characters, less likable ones in my opinion. Story wise its fine so far. I'm only about a third into it.
Well at least you are able to identify the problem, which was not with the game itself, but your expectations. You wanted more of the same and received something that, although strongly related in spirit, is very different. You were limited by your nostalgia, by your attachment to the past, and were thus unable to open yourself in a new direction.
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but upon playing this I just spent time looking for references to Trigger and cameos.
I know that it is normal to want to be understood, yet I still find it bizarre that you started this thread hoping to find people who are limited in the same way as you. Why would you wish this upon anyone else?
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Darkness Beyond Time - Dead Project Discussion / Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« on: December 04, 2011, 07:53:19 am »
Please excuse me late replies. I have only just recently started concerning myself with these matters.
"...where thou art needed most" would be correct, if I am not mistaken. I tried Flames of Eternity because I wanted a version of CE with human Glenn, but it was horribly executed. Aside from the linguistic catastrophe, which makes Ted Woosely's work with the character look good, the added sprites are terrible. Running Glenn looks more like he is limping swiftly and his victory pose is an abomination.
And yes, no mention is made in the introduction of the Crimson Echoes team, despite the majority of the game having been left the same... The only other change which I noticed in my short time with FoE was a return to the terms of the original north american release such as "shadow" instead of "dark". The person behind this project is obviously a narrow-minded, ignorant, uncultured north-american who shows respect neither for the spirit of the original japanese text and the quality of the original game, nor for the work of the CE-team.
...I don't get it. If they're trying to keep his speech "formal" or attempting to stick with the original English translation, then why didn't they stick with the "thou" and "thee" stuff instead of just inserting "ye" everywhere? I'm no linguist, but wouldn't "Thou belongst in the castle... Thy true home and where thou'st needed most." sound better and more like Frog's original speech than what they have, which is essentially "YE YE YE YE YE YE" ?? "Ye true home" doesn't even make grammatical sense. "You true home" ?
/English major blather
"...where thou art needed most" would be correct, if I am not mistaken. I tried Flames of Eternity because I wanted a version of CE with human Glenn, but it was horribly executed. Aside from the linguistic catastrophe, which makes Ted Woosely's work with the character look good, the added sprites are terrible. Running Glenn looks more like he is limping swiftly and his victory pose is an abomination.
And yes, no mention is made in the introduction of the Crimson Echoes team, despite the majority of the game having been left the same... The only other change which I noticed in my short time with FoE was a return to the terms of the original north american release such as "shadow" instead of "dark". The person behind this project is obviously a narrow-minded, ignorant, uncultured north-american who shows respect neither for the spirit of the original japanese text and the quality of the original game, nor for the work of the CE-team.
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Chrono Shift RPGMaker Project / Re: CS Demo Response Thread (WARNING: Spoilers)
« on: November 21, 2011, 11:27:25 am »Quote
This is a great example of why critique is necessary. I hadn't even thought about the relevance of the "Earthbound" name. We'll have to figure out a good way to deal with it. Either they won't be called Earthbound or we'll have to throw in an explanation. Either way, it'll take a little thought and I'm glad you brought it up!
The name itself raises some questions and even puts the premise of your game into question, since it implies that the Zealian's ascent to the heavens was nearly simultaneous with their acquisition of magical powers, thereby the inherent link between not having magic and being bound to the earth. This in turn, makes it seem likely that Zeal had been in the heavens much longer than 15 years before the events of CT (though I do not recall if there are any more hints about this in CT).
However, you can probably make it work somehow, if you think hard enough.
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Also, we've added a significant amount of introduction before the demo takes place that works to show the characters' personalities and lives better than just throwing the player right into the thick of it. Most of the feedback we've received about the demo suggested that it jumps right in too quickly, so we've tried to add more world-building before the initial conflict in the school takes place. In the full game, the terrorists are part of a faction with a name and a specific goal, and each character has their own motivation, so hopefully it will come across as better planned than the demo was.
Jumping into the action is good. But some things should be prepared. For instance, if Norstein's brother is going to be killed, their relationship should be demonstrated at least a little bit so that this be a meaningful event, and not merely a quick plot device to motivate the protagonist.
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Even better, we're going back to calling the "magic" Techs instead of Aura, so that Rush can in fact have some attacks. What we have planned now is 10 individual techs for each playable character (4 plus 2 optional PCs) without the use of any RTP animations and without "cheap" effects like Taven's paralysis move that never goes away in the demo. The "Charge Aura" spell has been changed to heal much less, allowing the battles to actually have some challenge to them.
You could theoretically keep the name "Aura" for the magic/alchemy users and give a different name to the command in Rush's menu (à la Final Fantasy VI)- "harvest" for example, if you want to run with the farmer joke.
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "the almost immediate executions of magic attacks without preparation"
I meant that when you select a technique in Chrono Trigger, there is a slight delay, the character raises his arms to the air (or something similar), gathers his powers and THEN unleashes the attack. In your demo, however, when an attack is selected, it is unleashed instantaneously, at the same moment in which the menu disappears. This confused me at first, because, as I was not certain if this was an Active Battle Mode or not, I could not tell if that was the enemy's or my own attack. I understand it now of course, but I still find that the techniques lack visual and sonic preparation.
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Unfortunately there are some things we can't fix. The battle system itself is not editable, so other than the stats and animations, we're stuck with what we have.
I have yet to write or find a script that runs diagonal movement without breaking other features. I've come to a compromise on this, in places where diagonal movement would be more natural, there will be diagonal movement, but only one direction will need to be pressed. It's a simple trick but will be much more fluid to just hold down a directional button rather than constantly hit up right up right up right, or whatever direction is needed.
Edit: I had asked if something in the vein of CE could be accomplished, without having informed myself sufficiently about the terms of the C&D-letter from SE.
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I agree and disagree here. While I personally find nothing wrong with the music choice, I don't like the placement of a lot of it. It was indeed very crammed, I really wanted to just showcase everything I planned to use at that point but couldn't fit it all in, so I chose sort of a representative selection that would again give a kind of taste of the range of tracks we'll be using. The problem with that is the demo's adventure doesn't cover much ground so the music seems more like a messy soundtrack than a tasteful sampler. A lot of the problem there is that the game doesn't feature time travel and thus we don't have the luxury of having several world maps, so each continent is actually expanded upon with its own flavor. My intentions with the music are to find high quality remixes or new recordings of Mitsuda's work, but he wasn't the only composer in the Chrono series, so I've gotten some music from other square and enix games of the time, sort of as an homage to CT's dream team consisting of both square and enix developers. This is more of a personal preference, and I can understand that some people might not like it at first, but when we get the game out, I'd encourage you and others to try and let it paint its atmosphere around you. If there is a general consensus that anything in particular stands out as being completely inappropriate, of course we'll find something more suitable.
I would still advise you to be careful. Near the beginning of the demo, you utilized
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I really appreciate the feedback and hope we can live up to the expectations of the Chrono series! Let me know if you have any other comments or questions, I love talking about this stuff.
27
Chrono Shift RPGMaker Project / Re: Vote for gameplay features in Chrono Shift
« on: November 20, 2011, 11:16:41 am »Yikes! How did I not notice this?
Bekkler, what RPGM engine you guys are using? And are you coding the scripts yourselves? I recall using both "stock" scripts from other resource forums and... they were quite compatible. @.@
I guess I'd vote for 8-directional movement combined with "pixel movement" rather than the standard Tile-base movement. More accurate to CT!
I agree. It is a chrono-tradition to have all party members visible, but I kind of hate not being able to walk diagonally.
28
Chrono Shift RPGMaker Project / Re: CS Demo Response Thread (WARNING: Spoilers)
« on: November 20, 2011, 11:12:51 am »
First of all, I very much like the idea of a Bekkler-centric prequel. Since he is described by Belthasar as a zealian Contemporary and yet has clearly managed to attain some kind of incredible longevity (possibly through the use of robotics) in CT, he is a figure who begs to be explored.
Regarding the story:
The idea of using the Nu's as save points is nice, but makes one wonder why they did not serve this point in CT. More problematic, I find, is that Belthasar and Norstein Bekkler created the Nu's, as it is a rather anticlimactic resolution to the mystery behind their existence as well as behind Belthasar's diary entry: "Everything begins and ends with Nu... That is what I believe, at least for the time being" Why would he write this about his own creation? The only remaining point of mystery in your telling are the special ingredients from which they were made. This appears to be an unnecessary deferral of the enigma, which could still work, if explored in the course of the story.
Something else that jumped out at me: It does not seem logical to call the non-magic users the "Earthbound", while all humans are still living on the earth. This inconsistency reminds the player that this is a fan-made prequel to an existing game and hinders his or her absorbance in the experience
Dialogue:
Aside from some grammatical errors, I found some lines rather weak. The "terrorist's" exclamation, for example, that she is in fact an "activist" and that the corrupt Zeal needs to go down immediately makes this character into a caricature instead of a character whom we should take seriously (as indicated by the existing character art of her) Granted, this also holds true to some extent for Dalton, but in his case, the joke was more unique and less cliché.
Oh, and shame on you! You made a Back to the Future reference! This breaks the 4th wall too much, in my opinion.
Gameplay:
If you take the project seriously, those who experience it may do the same.
I would consider giving Rush either physical techniques (like Ayla or Sabin from FFVI) or having him gain magical powers as part of the story. Simply because he is otherwise boring in battle.
There is a great lack of balance in the battle system. The characters level up after almost every battle and the stats increase tremendously (this is OK for the demo, but not an actual game) At the beginning, Rush was annoying, because he was the only one who could not use the incredibly cheap Aura technique (which eliminates the need to restore MP with items, and even HP- except against an enemy which is too strong to beat anyway). However, after equipping him with his ultimate weapon (which hits twice) and giving him most of Belthasar's power tabs, he became a horrific monster who pretty much made the other two characters and their attack spells irrelevant (until I found Norstein's ultimate weapon in the forest, which allowed him to inflict a bit more than half as much damage as Rush per hit).
Aside from Taven's cheap paralysis tech (which made my first battle against the Golem extremely boring), she is not very useful. Her attack techs are weaker than Bekkler's and her healing techs are not even necessary as mentioned above (except maybe to heal Rush).
Presentation:
I constantly had the impression that the RPG-maker software had extremely limited you. There were a lot of little things. The almost immediate executions of magic attacks without preparation was confusing and inorganic. The lack of diagonal walking was clumsy (and, while using an analog stick, very uncomfortable)
, especially when taking stairs or diagonal bridges. The monsters which are shown being reloaded while one leaves an area. The lack of a confirmation after having saved the games. It is little things like these that detract from the experience. But if you cannot do anything about it, you cannot do anything about it.
Ah, and the music. I find it a bad idea to use music from non CT games, especially from Final Fantasy, since this is especially recognizable and distracting. I also feel like you tried to cram in too many pieces, with a different piece for almost every island on the world map. Even the island on which the forest (where the boss battle is) is seemed to have its own music, even though there is seemingly nothing else other than the forest to be explored. If you look at Chrono Trigger there were only a maximum of three tracks for the world map in each era(in 1000 A.D. standard, village, and Epoch). And only two per dimension in Chrono Cross. It would make your presentation more unified and allow you to be more selective in your selection of tracks, if you were to reduce the amount.
I hope my criticism does not discourage you. I am interested in the development of your project.
Regarding the story:
The idea of using the Nu's as save points is nice, but makes one wonder why they did not serve this point in CT. More problematic, I find, is that Belthasar and Norstein Bekkler created the Nu's, as it is a rather anticlimactic resolution to the mystery behind their existence as well as behind Belthasar's diary entry: "Everything begins and ends with Nu... That is what I believe, at least for the time being" Why would he write this about his own creation? The only remaining point of mystery in your telling are the special ingredients from which they were made. This appears to be an unnecessary deferral of the enigma, which could still work, if explored in the course of the story.
Something else that jumped out at me: It does not seem logical to call the non-magic users the "Earthbound", while all humans are still living on the earth. This inconsistency reminds the player that this is a fan-made prequel to an existing game and hinders his or her absorbance in the experience
Dialogue:
Aside from some grammatical errors, I found some lines rather weak. The "terrorist's" exclamation, for example, that she is in fact an "activist" and that the corrupt Zeal needs to go down immediately makes this character into a caricature instead of a character whom we should take seriously (as indicated by the existing character art of her) Granted, this also holds true to some extent for Dalton, but in his case, the joke was more unique and less cliché.
Oh, and shame on you! You made a Back to the Future reference! This breaks the 4th wall too much, in my opinion.
Gameplay:
...though I can't expect people to think TOO much about strategy in a fan-made game.
If you take the project seriously, those who experience it may do the same.
I would consider giving Rush either physical techniques (like Ayla or Sabin from FFVI) or having him gain magical powers as part of the story. Simply because he is otherwise boring in battle.
There is a great lack of balance in the battle system. The characters level up after almost every battle and the stats increase tremendously (this is OK for the demo, but not an actual game) At the beginning, Rush was annoying, because he was the only one who could not use the incredibly cheap Aura technique (which eliminates the need to restore MP with items, and even HP- except against an enemy which is too strong to beat anyway). However, after equipping him with his ultimate weapon (which hits twice) and giving him most of Belthasar's power tabs, he became a horrific monster who pretty much made the other two characters and their attack spells irrelevant (until I found Norstein's ultimate weapon in the forest, which allowed him to inflict a bit more than half as much damage as Rush per hit).
Aside from Taven's cheap paralysis tech (which made my first battle against the Golem extremely boring), she is not very useful. Her attack techs are weaker than Bekkler's and her healing techs are not even necessary as mentioned above (except maybe to heal Rush).
Presentation:
I constantly had the impression that the RPG-maker software had extremely limited you. There were a lot of little things. The almost immediate executions of magic attacks without preparation was confusing and inorganic. The lack of diagonal walking was clumsy (and, while using an analog stick, very uncomfortable)
, especially when taking stairs or diagonal bridges. The monsters which are shown being reloaded while one leaves an area. The lack of a confirmation after having saved the games. It is little things like these that detract from the experience. But if you cannot do anything about it, you cannot do anything about it.
Ah, and the music. I find it a bad idea to use music from non CT games, especially from Final Fantasy, since this is especially recognizable and distracting. I also feel like you tried to cram in too many pieces, with a different piece for almost every island on the world map. Even the island on which the forest (where the boss battle is) is seemed to have its own music, even though there is seemingly nothing else other than the forest to be explored. If you look at Chrono Trigger there were only a maximum of three tracks for the world map in each era(in 1000 A.D. standard, village, and Epoch). And only two per dimension in Chrono Cross. It would make your presentation more unified and allow you to be more selective in your selection of tracks, if you were to reduce the amount.
I hope my criticism does not discourage you. I am interested in the development of your project.
29
Chrono Shift RPGMaker Project / Re: Chrono Shift Artwork
« on: November 20, 2011, 10:10:45 am »
I'm not sure if my criticism is wanted, Lady Marle, but here it is:
I feel like the drawings of the two women are more solid than those of the men. In the former, you have distanced yourself more from Toriyama style and seem to have perhaps incorporated your own sense for accessorizing. The men, however, are far more Toriyama inspired and show a weaker attempt to distinguish your style. That their clothing is less distinct also renders their designs less interesting.
I find Rush's face problematic. He is the only one whom you attempted to draw from the front, demonstrating the difficulty of drawing the nose from this angle in this style. The chin seems like a tacked on accessory of manliness which does not mesh organically with the otherwise very compressed face. This compression is perhaps due to a desire to have his head leaned downward, which would need to be shown more clearly through shadowing.
Norstein's face looks like Vegeta's (or Magus's), but with less detail and character. Based on his personality in the demo, he is scholarly, sensible and rather goofy (as shown by his after-battle dance, a reference to his robotic appearance in Chrono Trigger). It is important to keep these qualities in mind when drawing him. I agree with your choice to make him slender, but he also seems rather short or small-bodied, like a child.
I feel like the drawings of the two women are more solid than those of the men. In the former, you have distanced yourself more from Toriyama style and seem to have perhaps incorporated your own sense for accessorizing. The men, however, are far more Toriyama inspired and show a weaker attempt to distinguish your style. That their clothing is less distinct also renders their designs less interesting.
I find Rush's face problematic. He is the only one whom you attempted to draw from the front, demonstrating the difficulty of drawing the nose from this angle in this style. The chin seems like a tacked on accessory of manliness which does not mesh organically with the otherwise very compressed face. This compression is perhaps due to a desire to have his head leaned downward, which would need to be shown more clearly through shadowing.
Norstein's face looks like Vegeta's (or Magus's), but with less detail and character. Based on his personality in the demo, he is scholarly, sensible and rather goofy (as shown by his after-battle dance, a reference to his robotic appearance in Chrono Trigger). It is important to keep these qualities in mind when drawing him. I agree with your choice to make him slender, but he also seems rather short or small-bodied, like a child.
30
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Chrono Cross Ghost Children related to characters in the Dimensional Vortex?
« on: November 17, 2011, 12:44:53 pm »It could work, but then there's the issue that Crono and such visit the dimensional vortex before defeating Lavos. Except that they don't, because it's a New Game +...except that they do, because the Gates are still functional (they close after CT).
Since that's all vaporous, then I think we can go ahead and write our own theory in this case, just for a thematic tie-in. So yeah, I think this is pretty cool. We should put it int he next analysis review.
Except this paradox is somewhat resolved by the ideas discussed in the main DS-analysis thread- that the world in which the dimensional vortices exist is a new, revised dimension, created through the "initial" defeat of Lavos and his ensuing fusion with Schala(the idea of causality across time eras and dimensions is rather paradoxical and seems to resemble a 5-dimensional model- time within time) , which is why the vortices as well as a portal to the Darkness Beyond Time in which this fusion has already begun are present.
I was playing today, and I thought it was interesting, what Glenn says upon encountering the Steel Shade. "Even if you are the real Chrono, we will not allow you to harm ours", indicating that at the very least, the Steel Shade bears a very strong resemblance to the genuine article.