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Topics - Leebot

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Polling / 3/5/05 - Which is your favorite White-innate CC character?
« on: February 26, 2005, 10:11:58 am »

For some reason, I chose Steena...

Polling / 2/26/05 - Which is your favorite Red-innate CC character?
« on: February 19, 2005, 09:14:04 am »
Time to decide the favorite CC character, first dividing them up by color.

There's just something about Draggy...

Magic, Elements, and Technology / AIM discussion of Techs/Grids
« on: February 13, 2005, 11:30:33 pm »
AIM discussion of Techs and Grids (as yet unedited):

GrayLensman01: Techs act the same as elements.
Avatar of Leebot: Do they? Elements can't be "learned" naturally, while Techs can
Ultrainer2000: Yeah...
Ultrainer2000: If a character doesn't have a grid, can they use techs?
Ultrainer2000: Which brings up a whole 'nother subject about the plot basis of grids, but that's another thing.
Avatar of Leebot: And what exactly "Stars" are
Avatar of Leebot: Special elements?
silverforge2670: Techs act the same as Elements when they're used, not in how they're gained.
Avatar of Leebot: A representation of experience that we, the players, see?
Ultrainer2000: Stars seem to be accumulations of pure energy.
Ultrainer2000: brb
Avatar of Leebot: But if the latter is true, why are they used for summons?
GrayLensman01: Some techs are obtained and allocated.
GrayLensman01: Some Techs are obtained as story events and can be allocated.
silverforge2670: true, but on the whole, they're not the same
xZeaLitYx: Stars to me were MP.
xZeaLitYx: Or levels. Of course in "reality," Crono couldn't think to himself "I need 5235 exp."
Avatar of Leebot: Then why do they apply to the whole party at once, in both experience and as fuel for summons?
GrayLensman01: Experience and star levels are purely aspects of gameplay.
Avatar of Leebot: and grids, too?
GrayLensman01: Elements really exist, and Kid mentions her elemental grid.
MetallicA6586: Exactly as I was about to mention.
Avatar of Leebot: yeah, so why would the characters see their grids mysteriously expand when they defeat a powerful enemy?
silverforge2670 has left the room.
MetallicA6586: But I doubt they really have any knowledge about stat growth.
MetallicA6586: It's not like Kid would go "Hey, I just got +10 hp!"
Avatar of Leebot: but grids are more physical to them, which implies grid expansion is more physical, which implies stars might be physical
Avatar of Leebot: unless they just think grids grow naturally over time
Ultrainer2000: I once had this idea that grids were crystallized forms of magic brought out by the Records of Fate (or other things, in the event that character never touched a record, like a natural occurance for Draggy, or alien technology for S
Ultrainer2000: *for Starky) and became a biological entity in symbiosis with their holder.
GrayLensman01: That's true, Leebot.
Ultrainer2000: Of course, I'm random guy #42 that makes theories without facts to back them up. >_>
Avatar of Leebot: then again, do monsters use grids? If you stay in battle and defend forever, they'll never run out
Avatar of Leebot: But that is probably best explained as a gameplay element
Ultrainer2000: Monsters, as in CT, seem to possess innate powers. Which brings up the question of how monsters are charged with the power of green and yellow.
MetallicA6586 has left the room.
Ultrainer2000: It's probably best explained by these changes happening when Dinopolis appeared.
GrayLensman01: Gameplay, definitely.  Enemies don't attack consistently either.
Avatar of Leebot: Now, assuming monsters use grids, they'd have to be pretty rudimentary if physical constructs, or more ephemereal
Ultrainer2000: Of course, we know that many monsters contain limited forms of intelligence, and in some cases, moderate or high.
Ultrainer2000: So rudimentary wouldn't always true
Ultrainer2000: *be true
Avatar of Leebot: but grids have to be usable by even the dumbest monsters, such as the jellyfish-like ones
Ultrainer2000: Hm...
Ultrainer2000: Like the point I brought up with Draggy, grids could also be a natural occurance.
Ultrainer2000: He does seem to be a Dragonian.
Ultrainer2000: Like the point I brought up with Draggy, grids could also be a natural occurance.
Avatar of Leebot: which would imply they're not physical
Ultrainer2000: Not physical, maybe..,. but still biological.
Ultrainer2000: Zeality says he can't post, so I'll be talking for him.
GrayLensman01: Tech skill may be unique for individual people but they are physical elements. When a Tech is "learned" it involves receiving a unique element.
Ultrainer2000: ZeaLitY: Chronopolis could have probably imparted operative intelligence to lifeforms in El Nido for Element Grid usage.
xZeaLitYx: Maybe. Grids certainly are weird.
xZeaLitYx: An outsider can use them, yet animals have them innately.
xZeaLitYx: Chronopolis could probably impart some kind of operative intelligence to the organisms of El Nido, and still have it be a non-biological device
Ultrainer2000: Well, there you go.
xZeaLitYx: Well, there they all went
GrayLensman01: Techs may also involve combining a physical move with a generic element to produce a special colour based effect.
Avatar of Leebot: Still if a grid were physical, we would see it at least on the transparent enemies
Ultrainer2000: Perhaps grids are created due to a... for lack of better term, ethereal virus that stemmed from when Dinopolis appeared? It may have originally have been exclusively a dragonian technology.
Ultrainer2000: I'm not ruling out the fact that they could be ethereal.
Ultrainer2000: Of course, I never have proof, so ignore me. =P
Avatar of Leebot: Or maybe "grid" is more of a mental construct, the way element-users visualize their storage of elements
Ultrainer2000: Then...
Ultrainer2000: How could Serge remove Kid's elements/
Ultrainer2000: ?
GrayLensman01: That's true.  People can have elements "equiped" or simply in their inventory.  Putting a element in your grid is like "memorizing" an element for immediate use.
Ultrainer2000: Kid wouldn't have asked Serge if it were completely mental.
Avatar of Leebot: Maybe the elements are converted from a physical form to an ethereal form.
Avatar of Leebot: Serge (or Mel) might be able to convert them back again if Kid weren't conscious to resist

Also, a few new arguments on magic/elements:

xZeaLitYx: Spekkio did say that he has observed combat from the End of Time
Ultrainer2000: Yay for spin the bottle - death edition.
xZeaLitYx: If he's truly the God of War, he should be experienced with everything, though Elements didn't exist at the time of Trigger
silverforge2670: yeah
Avatar of Leebot: "combat," not "nature"
silverforge2670: but can he see multiple time streams?
silverforge2670: every time stream should lead there
Avatar of Leebot: If yellow and green weren't used in combat, he wouldn't have known about them
silverforge2670: so that seems to be a possibility
GrayLensman01: The Dragonian Dimension would have existed during the time of Trigger.

And one random theory that seems like a cop-out:

Avatar of Leebot: Unless... what if CC doesn't really exist in the same timeline as CT, but a similar timeline with slightly different laws of physics?

Polling / 2/19/05 - If you had a CT element, which one would it be?
« on: February 12, 2005, 10:04:32 am »
A lighter tone for the poll this week, have fun with it.

Well, I am Leebot, so I'd have to side with Robo here.

Polling / 2/12/05 - What was the most dramatic moment in the series?
« on: February 05, 2005, 09:48:35 am »

My vote goes to the Dead Sea event in CC.

Fan Fiction / The Wrath of Gaia
« on: November 18, 2004, 12:29:39 pm »
[Alright, here's the prologue of my new fanfic. It's also available in the Open Book.]

The Wrath of Gaia – Prologue

I had a dream last night. Although, dream probably isn’t the best word to describe it. Maybe, “Vision in the Guise of a Dream.” Well, whatever I call it, the fact remains that it’s directly responsible for me making this entry. Let me explain.

I can’t remember any visual details, which is just as well, as they were far from the important parts. What I do remember, is one man, his message, and this book, the “Codex.”

The man seemed unlike anyone I had ever known. He was calm and controlled, but gave off a sense of power. He seemed to possess a soul deeper than any human’s, and felt completely trustworthy, as if he’d never even consider lying. Although, since he was in control of my “dream,” he may have been able to force this impression on me, but somehow I doubt it.

His message didn’t make complete sense to me, but here it is:

“I don’t have much time here. I couldn’t reach the origin world at all, but this one is close enough that I can project myself here for a short time and give you this book. It’s called a “Codex.” Once it’s been “aligned” with a world, it will record its history automatically from that point on. I’m here now because your world is about to face a crisis. Even more important than the events that will occur is that they be recorded. I’m entrusting this Codex to you so that you may fulfill that purpose. All you have to do is make one entry, describe yourself and your world, and then keep it in your possession. It is vastly important that you not let it fall into the hands of others, and that you resist the temptation to read it yourself. For, it not only records the past, but the present and a glimpse of the future as well. If one were to know the future from it, disaster could ensue. If in dire need of a miracle, you might be able to alter reality by writing what you need into it, but this power isn’t to be taken lightly; one mistake could spell disaster.

“I’ve chosen you for two reasons. One is that I can tell you are trustworthy and won’t abuse the power of the Codex. The other is your role in the coming events, and your connection to the hero aspect. You’ll meet him soon enough. He’ll seem powerful, and he is, but he needs support. You must be that support; he can’t fight if he doesn’t know for what he’s fighting. You must be his constant reminder of the good in the world.”

Even though I don’t completely believe everything he said, I guess I have nothing to lose by making this one entry and then carrying this book around with me for a while. If what he says turns out to be true, I’ll figure out what to do from there.

My name is Rianna, but most of my friends just call me “Ria.” I was born here, in the town of Larin nearly 20 years ago. At the age of 14, I joined to the town militia. I’ve always been good with a bow, and this seemed the best way to use my talent. I’m currently engaged to the boy-next-door, Torin, who’s in the militia with me. We’ve been friends since we were born, it just seemed natural to get together. Sometimes, though, I wonder if I really love him, or if this is just a mixture of friendship and convenience. No one seems to be able to help me. They just tell me that you can’t explain love to someone else, you have to feel it for yourself to know it.

The town of Larin is on the outskirts of Choras territory. Choras is one of the three large nation-states in the world. The others are the militaristic Porre and the mysterious Mystic League. Porre has been expanding its reach since around 1003 AD, so the Mystic League and Choras have formed a weak alliance, in hopes of maintaining the balance of power. I wouldn’t exactly call this situation a war, it’s more a series of random, minor battles over territory. It’s been going on for 19 years, now, and there’s no end in sight.

I wonder whether this situation is about to break out into the “crisis” my vision mentioned? Maybe, maybe it will be something else. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see. Apparently, I’ll be at the forefront of it, so I’ll know soon enough.

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Beyond Time - The End of Time [FINISHED]
« on: November 02, 2004, 11:56:14 am »
Author's note: Finally! The last section, The End of Time, is up! You know I had to put it off 'til last  :wink:. Now, all that's left is proofreading, homogenization, and another chance for commentary. Once that's done, I'll post the intro in the Submissions thread, and assuming it's accepted, we can put it in the encyclopedia. My recommendation would be to put the introduction on one page and link it to each section and the appendices.

I. The End of Time

Time-Error (When a traveler enters the End of Time, the Time-Error of the gate or vehicle that brought them there determines the time* at which they arrive. When they leave, the time* determines the appropriate Time-Error of their destination gate.)

Nature: As Gaspar explains, the End of Time is at the space-time coordinates of least resistance. It contains light pillars connecting to all gates, and a bucket that connects to a gate at the Day of the Lavos. The gothic architecture gives the place a solemn feeling.

Analysis: The nature of the end of our universe depends primarily on the curvature of its space.

If the curvature of the universe is positive, the gravity of the bodies in the universe will eventually cause them to pull everything back together in a "Big Crunch" which would collapse the entirety of the universe into a singularity (a black hole).

If the curvature of the universe is negative, bodies will keep accelerating away from each other, and the ever-increasing force of entropy will take over, resulting in a "heat-death" of the universe, followed by a gradual cooling as it fades away, leaving only black holes behind.

If the curvature of the universe is flat, the universe will approach an equilibrium size as time approaches infinity. As this approaches, it is most likely that all the mass in the universe will fall into the black holes scattered throughout.

Einstein originally predicted that the universe was positively curved, but recent measurements have shown that this is unlikely. One recent measurement showed that the universe is extremely close to being flat, within a small margin of error. Other recent observations have shown distance stellar phenomena accelerating away from us, which is consistent with negative curvature.

The one notable constant in all these endings is the presence of singularities (black holes). In a singularity, all known physics breaks down, as it is incapable of handling a 0-dimensional universe. If Chrono Trigger's End of Time exists in a singularity, we may be lead to believe that it is a place consisting of pure thought, being QC-like. This is supported by the observation that when Gaspar first arrives, it is empty, but the party reaches an End of Time that apparently consists of a few rooms with gothic-style architecture.

Quote from: Leebot
From a quasi-philosophical standpoint, one can look at them as more of "states of existence" than physical places. As such, only the spirit would truly exist there. The body, air, and structure are all created to provide a metaphorical structure to this space to provide travelers an image they could comprehend (like how the Q Continuum is shown in Star Trek: Voyager).

Quote from: Epsilon
The problem with that is (going by the idea that the minds of characters "create" the EoT/BoT using things they're familiar with..) is that there is no other area in CT that looks like the EoT (I havent replayed CC inawhile, so I'm not sure abot that...), so how could it be made out of things they are familiar with?

Quote from: Leebot
If we accept my theory as true, we can take it a bit further. We don't know that all characters see the same thing, or even that we see the same thing as the characters. If not, the End of Time would be a representation that is supposed to evoke a certain image for the players (I get the impression of a 50's (or so) metropolis at night, evoking a sense of loneliness and isolation).

If all who are there see the same thing, then it's likely that Gaspar created that image. It's possible he saw something like that peering through a time-portal, or heard it described from some other traveler.

The only other place in either game that resembles the End of Time is (not surprisingly), the Bend of Time from CC.


Gaspar - Guru of Time from the Kingdom of Zeal. In the Ocean Palace disaster, he was caught in a gate and sent to the End of Time, where he watches over the timeline.

Name Origin: Gaspar was the name of one of the three wisemen who brought gifts to the baby Christ is Christian lore.

Spekkio - A mysterious creature who teaches the party magic. His appearance corresponds to the power level of those who see him, if they're weak, he appears weak. If they're strong, he appears strong. His forms are (in order of increasing power):

Blue Goblin
Red Omnicrone
Masa & Mune (combined form)
Red Nu

Name Origin: Spekkio is derived from the Latin "Specchio," which means "Mirror."

Analysis: There are many theories regarding the true nature of Spekkio. They include:

1) Spekkio is a Nu.

Quote from: Faulce
He takes the form of a redish-pinkish Nu as his final form.  And has attacks such as Luminaire and Dark Matter.  Why a Nu???

Quote from: Faulce
Well, Spekkio says, "If you're strong, I look strong.  If you're weak, I look weak."  Which implies that the Nu must be strong...  However, he also says right after that "You are strong of will, thats why the old one let you through." So not all people who accidentally entered the EoT saw Spekkio.  In fact, we don't see anyone else in the game outside of 12000 B.C. who can use magic as far as I can remember.  And perhaps the "strong of will" statement refers to how the Nu may work for the planet and diligently watch the workings of mankind to make sure things are going in such a way as to eventually work out for the Entity's best interests.
I don't know if he wants Lavos dead or not, he never seems to acknowledge his existence.

Quote from: Daggart
The problem with Spekkio being a Nu to me has always been that he acts nothing like the other Nu.

Quote from: Faulce
Thats true, he does act nothing like the other Nu.
(1) He has a name. (2) He fights using more than a headbutt.  (3) He can shapeshift. (4) He's red. (5) He has way more HP. [His final form has 20,000, I think.  The normal Nu has 1234HP].  (6) His personality is more developed than the other Nu we see.

2) Spekkio is a force of nature, or the embodiment of magic itself.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Plus, he has almost all the strongest magic attacks (Luminaire, Flare, Dark Matter), Hallation, & Salt (although some times he uses Salt on a party member). I think his having magical ability far outclasses him from being a lowly Nu. Nu only have two attacks really; Headbutt (1HP) & Headbutt (all but 1HP). Spekkio, along with not having either ability, has a hoard of magical ability. Plus, he somehow manages to avoid all physical attacks.

Only magic harms him and he has lots of magic himself. So, I believe Spekkio to be some kind of magical entity (not to be confused with the actual Entity). His power is simply a reflection of the power the party may have at any given time. If not just a reflection, then an enhancement of some kind. I've heard that spekkio means "mirror" in some other language...Although I might have heard that was debunked too...Whatever, it fits either way.

Quote from: XchrononetX
Perhaps Spekkio represents the very balance in the elements, the force that the people of Zeal forgot after finding Lavos as a potential for of energy. After all, it seems that he has all the most powerful representations of the Magic elements in his array of attacks, and it would only seem fit that he would be the pure representation of magic itself. This would make sense in that physical attacks cannot harm him, as magic is a force beyond a fist, so to speak. Magic can only harm magic... Yep, I think that's it. Spekkio is "Magic", or at least that's what I think.

Quote from: Faulce
I think that is a possibility. Even though 'magic' did not originally exist, the four elements (Lightning, Fire, Water, and Shadow) did exist and their balance was important. Maybe that is what the Nu are for: to preserve the balance of the elements (hence why there are so many of them in 12,000B.C. and almost none in any other era (and only one when magic ceases to be used in 12,000B.C.!!!)).

Quote from: 3Fangs 3Petals 3Feathers
It is my personal beleif that Spekkio is the Anti-Lavos.  As Lavos was created (and to some beleif, magic was created) the 'balance of power' created Spekkio.  As when Spekkio leaves in the ending of the return to EoT, I beleive that as Lavos is 'defeated' (temporarily at least), Spekkio is called back to wherever they both came from, and balance is given back to the world.

Quote from: Faulce
Its all starting to make sense now. I'm starting to think though that Spekkio was created to balance the elements after Lavos fell and during the height of Zealian magic use. The Nu were simply not enough (in terms of my new idea for their purpose) to keep the balance physically, so a true and complete magical balance had to be created to fulfill the 'hole' in the balance. (I really hope I'm not way off on this.)

3) Spekkio is an alien being, possibly like Lavos.

Quote from: Epsilon
That gave me an idea for a theory... What if Spekkio is another member of Lavos' race who achieved "perfect evolution," and for whatever reason decided to go to the End of Time (Or it existed, gathering DNA up until the End of Time...)?

4) Spekkio is a creation of Gaspar.

Quote from: V_Translanka
I assume that even when the so-called "Enlightened" ones were in Zeal, they did not automatically know Magic. For one, it's said how Schala and Janus seem to have their Magics (or lack of Magics) tested just to see if they have any ability. It makes sense that someone would teach them, if not exactly, then somewhat like how Spekkio teaches Crono & Co.

I immediately thought: The Gurus! But I also thought: Which of them would teach Magic? Did any of them even seem to know any Magic? Belthasar seems like he'd be too busy with the Epoch and the like... Melchior with his weapons... So, then, Gasper? Was there a Zealian council? Perhaps Dalton (he was a Magic user and even a Summoner)? Probably not... Or maybe it was just some of the scientists of Kajar or something? Maybe Q. Zeal herself taught Schala?

Quote from: Leebot
I just thought of something: What if Spekkio is an extension or creation of Gaspar? If so, it stands to reason that Gaspar could be able to teach magic to the people of Zeal.

Quote from: Leebot
Here's a wierd theory: Gaspar created Spekkio to appear in forms that each appeared more powerful than the previous one, but (for some reason) he wanted it to look like a Nu to him, so he made its most powerful form look like a Nu. He would see the most powerful form, as in order to create something with a certain level of magic, he would have to possess at least that level of magic himself (at least, in theory).

Quote from: Chrono'99
I've just thought about something. Masa and Mune claim to be Melchior's dream embodied, and Belthasar put his mind into his Nu, who is sleeping (either physically or "outside the flow of time", after you turn him off). Apparently, two of the Gurus are linked to some kind of avatars who have something to do with dreams.

Now what about Gaspar? There was nothing in the End of Time when he came, but eventually a ground and Spekkio appeared, while Gaspar is sleeping. Perhaps Spekkio is Gaspar's "dream avatar"? That God of War seems quite eccentric and out of place, so perhaps he is just a fancy dream Gaspar is having?

General Discussion / Shadow Hearts: Covenant
« on: October 29, 2004, 11:12:51 pm »
Anyone else here played SH:C? It has an interesting bit of time-travel worked into the end, and I'd like to see how you guys interpreted it. I'll share my own theories, too, if anyone cares. BTW, it's a great game, even if the ending is a bit confusing and open-ended.

Author's Note: Here's the revamped version of the Lavos section.

II. Lavos' Pocket Dimension

Mechanics: Time-Error (Any time the pocket dimension comes into contact with the timeline, the time* of the pocket dimension that appears is determined by the time-error of an existing gate in the timeline.)


Analysis: Lavos displays some strange behavior. If the travelers defeat the shell and warp into the past, the shell is still defeated. A strange blue aura surrounds Lavos during the Ocean Palace disaster and the final battle. Lavos Core is able to open time warps to different eras. Lavos also appears to have knowledge of the future; during the final battle it emulate the fighting techniques of Guardian, which exists in 2300 AD. A possible explanation is that Lavos exists within a pocket dimension, or "time bubble," which transcends time.

When Lavos arrived on earth in 65 million BC, it created a pocket dimension separate from normal space time, existing on the time-error axis. A wormhole connects the pocket dimension to every time period.

Lavos is not actually physically present within the earth. The wormhole aperture is located at the earth's core, giving Lavos access to the planet's energy and lifeforms. During the Day of Lavos or the Ocean Palace disaster, the wormhole ascends to the surface, causing a dimensional disturbance. The wormhole offers an uninterrupted view of the pocket dimension, creating the illusion of Lavos' presence.

If one approaches Lavos, and passes through the wormhole, the interior of the pocket dimension has appearance of the blue aura which surrounds Lavos. During the Ocean Palace Disaster, Queen Zeal, Magus and the others warp into the pocket dimension. During the final battle, Crono battles Lavos in the pocket dimension.

Lavos' core is able to open time warps to different times, because it is connected to those eras through the wormhole. The aperture of the wormhole gives a distorted view of the time period being accessed. Lavos is also able to survey the entire timeline and would have knowledge of, for example, Guardian's fighting style.

After* Lavos dies, the pocket dimension no longer connects to space-time, but the past* Lavos still exists, and would be theoretically accessible if a time traveler accessed it from an earlier* time-error then that at which Lavos was defeated, but it is generally not possible to travel to a lower time-error.

This then raises the question of why Lavos chose to ascend in 1999 AD. if it had the ability to ascend at any time. The reason for this can be inferred from Lavos' original purpose.

Quote from: Lucca
Now I understand...

It lives on a planet for as long as
possible, stealing away the most vital

It combined the DNA it found here
with its own, and gave birth to those
creatures up on Death Peak.

Quote from: Robo
This was Lavos's goal...!

Using the DNA of every organism...

And achieving the ultimate in

It is likely that Lavos determined that 1999 AD. was the best balance of collecting as much DNA as possible and having as low a chance as possible of the inhabitants defeating him.

It's worth noting how the timeline would appear to Lavos. When he's in the core of the planet at first, he would see a timeline in which Zeal taps into his energy and uses it for their own purposes. He then decided to stop this, so interfered and destroyed Zeal. When he went back into the planet, he saw the timeline progressing from that point, with Zeal being destroyed and the populace eventually advancing beyond where they were in 1999 AD. (he sees a regular future rather than the ruined one). He then decides that 1999 AD. is the best time to arise, so he does so. In the "Lavos Timeline" he rains destruction on the world, exits his pocket dimension, and starts producing offspring. The short period between when Lavos rises and when he exits his pocket dimension--when Crono's party takes him on--is the only time when the wormhole can connect to the ruined future.


Lavos - Lavos is a being of godly power who crashed into earth in 65,000,000 BC. and laid waste to it in 1999 AD. His purpose was to harvest the DNA of all lifeforms on earth in order to create even more powerful offspring. In order to improve this process, he artifically accelerated the evolution of humans.

Analysis: The origin of Lavos is unknown. He may be unique, or one of many. Theories include:

1) Lavos is the result of a lot of natural evolution which resulted in this "monster."

2) Lavos (or one of his ancestors) was a biological superweapon gone wrong (think Deus from Xenogears).

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Beyond Time - The Dead Sea [FINISHED]
« on: October 14, 2004, 05:49:05 pm »
VI: The Dead Sea

Note: The topic of the Dead Sea has already been covered extensively in the article, Salt for the Dead Sea. This section overlaps partly with that article, but both should be read for a thorough picture of the Dead Sea.

Mechanics: Standard Time (Time in the Dead Sea flows parallel to time outside of it. However, the time in the Dead Sea is actually the time of 10,000 years in the future. The peculiar nature of this allows changes in the timeline outside the Dead Sea to affect the appearance of the Dead Sea.)


Analysis: In the incident known as the Time Crash, Chronopolis was projected 10,000 years back in time. When the dimension, Home, split off from Keystone T-2, the Sea of Eden (where Chronopolis was located) morphed into the Dead Sea. This happened because Home lacked a past previous to 1010 AD., and thus lacked a Crono to travel to the future and defeat Lavos. When the destruction was ensured, the Time Crash was mirrored in Home by pulling in the ruined timeline, centered on where Chronopolis would have been. This caused fragments of the ruined future to coalesce into the Tower of Geddon and surrounding structures.

One peculiar feature of the Dead Sea is that time appears to be frozen: Waves are frozen in place, and books are suspended in midair. Certain automatons and pieces of technology (the display on Lavos, the elevator, etc.), on the other hand, appear to be animate. This discrepancy can possibly be explained by Serge and his party's presence in the Dead Sea. Serge's status as the arbiter allowed the Dead Sea's Frozen Flame to connect with him, and create an environment suitable for him and his party (the lack of such an environment being responsable for the loss of Home's Lynx and the Acacia Dragoons). When this environment was created, it also allowed the previously frozen machines to become animate as well.

This begs the question of why the Dead Sea was frozen in the first place. Its mirror, the Sea of Eden, is completely animate, so this would imply that the Dead Sea would be so as well. There are two possible explanations for this. One explanation is that FATE has purposely kept it frozen to prevent the future there from spreading into Home. Another possibility is that the formation of the Dead Sea was so climactic and chaotic that the fabric of time was damaged in the process, and time ceased to exist within it. This also raises the question of if we can infer that since the Dead Sea represents the future, is the future frozen and demolished as well? If time has progressed since the Sea of Eden was sent back in time, the Dead Sea should represent 11020 AD. It's quite possible that this means the formation of the Dead Sea caused time to be frozen in Home from 2400 AD.


Miguel - Leena's father, who was trapped in the Sea of Eden after a storm threw his and Wazuki's boat off course while they were trying to bring Serge to Guldove. When the dimensions split, FATE made him the guardian of Home's Frozen Flame. He was eventually defeated by Serge's party.

Analysis: There is a theory that Miguel is actually Crono.

Quote from: Vaeran
I actually posted this back before the crash (or the crash before that), but I like to trot this theory out every now and then and see what people think of it. Back when I played the game, this idea seemed abundantly clear to me, but then talking to other people I found I was the only one left with this impression. Specifically, that Miguel is actually Crono.

There's no evidence in the game to prove this, but there's nothing to disprove it either, and a lot of circumstantial evidence points towards it being right. For example:

- Age. Crono was about 16 years old in 1000 A.D., and Chrono Cross takes place in 1020. Miguel is clearly middle-aged, so that works out.

- Appearance. Miguel has red hair and lots of it, though he wears it in a much tamer style than Crono did.

- Game mechanics. Miguel is ludicrously powerful, far more than a simple islander should be. In addition, he's an innate White. Crono could have been a Yellow in CC's system for all his lightning attacks, but his most famous technique was Luminaire, which in CC is a White element.

- Family. Leena looks a lot like what you'd expect Marle and Crono's daughter to; she's basically Marle with Crono's coloring. In addition, her name is very similar to Leene, a name from Marle's family. It's true that we see her "grandmother" and "sister" in Arni village, but they don't look a thing like her. After Miguel never returned from his voyage with Wazuki, an old woman in the village probably took Leena in as her own, as she no longer had any family.

The scene in which you meet Miguel is also very telling. He seems to know a whole hell of a lot about the whole Lavos situation, for one thing. And if you watch carefully, the little Crono shade is always standing nearest him, and is standing directly over (behind) Miguel as he dies.

But doesn't the Crono "ghost" mean that Crono's already dead, and thus isn't Miguel? No; I don't believe the three childlike apparitions are Crono, Marle and Lucca at all. While we're not clear on Marle's fate, we know Lucca at least lived to her early 20s; that's when Lynx kidnaps her (and presumably kills her when she refuses to help). If she died at that age, her ghost wouldn't appear as a little child; ditto for the other two.

(So if they're not ghosts, what are they? I think they're projections of the Frozen Flame, which is the essence of Lavos. The game assumes that your final party to fight Lavos in CT was Crono, Marle and Lucca, and that they would therefore be the last thing it saw. While they're not actually children, that's what Lavos saw them as; weak little human children who shouldn't have been a threat.)

Anyway, so what the hell would Crono be doing all the way down in the El Nido archipelago, anyway? Remember that Porre invaded and conquered Guardia. Like I said, we don't know exactly what happened to Marle, but it's pretty easy to guess: as then-queen of Guardia, she was either killed, taken prisoner, or is in hiding somewhere, possibly organizing a rebellion. Either way, not very pleasant. Knowing that things are going to get bad real soon, she entreats Crono to escape with their child. He gets as far away from Guardia as possible with Leena, settling down to a quiet life in a fishing village and changing his name.

So, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Miguel could just be some simple fisherman whose life ended up sucking beyond all reason. Or he could be the hero from the previous game, imprisoned in an dead future that he helped create, and forced to fight against the only people capable of preventing it. I think it adds an extra level of emotion to think he's the latter.

Further evidence that Crono may be alive:

Quote from: ZeaLitY
I wish to point out that if Lucca's burning is correctly dated at 1015 A.D., Crono may very well be alive. A child's drawing of him hangs in the back passage way. Considering the age of children, it couldn't have been done before the fall of Guardia.

Quote from: Ybrik Metaknight
Wow...good point. In fact, regardless of whether the date is correct, Crono would almost have to be alive. Consider the following: Kid, in 1020, is 16. She is able to talk to Serge coherently enough that she would have to be 6 or 7 at the youngest during the fire. Simple math dictates that the fire would have to have occured in or after 1010. The Fall of Guardia was in 1005.

Unless those were drawn in 1005, before the Fall of Guardia and Lucca simply left them up for memory, which is unlikely, given the fact that they did not appear to be framed or in any way protected from the elements, and even the inside of a house is not away from the elements enough to preserve something so unprotected for five years or longer. (Yay for runon I write this I'm in the newsroom for TCU's newspaper...ironic...)

Also, since Robo and Ayla (and maybe Frog too? Can't quite remember) are depicted in the pictures as well, perhaps they continued to travel through time after the events of CT. Interesting how much a closer look at such a small detail can reveal...

I think that Guardia XXXIII might have still been king (unless, of course, he died because the Guardia line seems to have short life spans), and so Crono and Marle very well could have been spared. Indeed, they may not have even been in the area, or the era, at the time of the fall.

Of course, if they were in the castle, they most likely would have been executed, whether they were the rulers or not...see the Bolshevik Revolution (and the mystery of Anastasia) for a historical parallel.

Ghosts of Crono, Marle, and Lucca: Three childlike ghosts appear, resembling Crono, Marle, and Lucca. They accuse Serge of being responsible for the destruction, and call him a murderer. Miguel explains, "It's just a distant echo from ones far gone... It's just an illusion."

Analysis: If Crono, Marle, and Lucca are dead, these may be their actual ghosts. According to certain philosophies, ghosts appear as the person appeared when they were happiest in life. This would explain why they appear as children.

Quote from: Dead Horse++
Speaking in metaphysical terms, many people theorize that when a person dies, their spirit reverts to the form of when they were happiest in life. After all, how many people want to spend their eternity looking like a dried-up and wrinkly transparent prune?

Quote from: GreenGannon
Naw, if they appeared when they were happiest, Crono would probably appear as he did the minute he killed Lavos.

Marle, as the minute Crono came back.

Because wouldn't you be really damn happy if you save your planet from certain destruction?

Quote from: Leebot
Good point. I don't have firsthand knowledge of these philosophies, but it may be that they appear as they were in the happiest period of their lives, rather than at the happiest moment.

Counter-argument: But, isn't it more likely that the happiest period for Crono and Marle would be after the defeat of Lavos and up through their marriage? I can't say for Crono's childhood, but it was probably not very happy for Marle.

Eh... looks like against wins.

Alternatively, they may be illusions conjured by the Planet in order to convince Serge to save it. They may appear as Crono, Marle, and Lucca because of their key role in saving the Planet from Lavos. Presenting them as children may be to show innocence, and to further evoke Serge's pity.

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Beyond Time - The Black Omen [FINISHED]
« on: October 06, 2004, 06:00:02 pm »
III: The Black Omen

Mechanics: Mixed (Certain creatures within the Black Omen exist on the standard time axis; if they're defeated at one point in time, they won't exist in the future, but will exist in the past. Other creatures exist on the Time-Error axis; if the party defeats them once, they cannot encounter them again, as the party has no way to travel to a point at lower Time-Error.)

Quote from: Faulce
Why wouldn't the lasers in the front be there even if you only defeat them in the present, and why does Queen Zeal only confront the party the first time she sees them or (if you start that the present) the "third" time she sees them? (I'm talking about the whole Black Omen 'age' thing)

Quote from: V_Translanka
As for the lasers...No idea...I guess my old theory about the Mammon Machine is powered by temporal energy...Perhaps the Mammon Machine's energy source is inside of a pocket dimension...Wait, doesn't that make sense? Because the Mammon Machine is in a pocket dimension, right? And it's like the powerstation isn't it? Drawing power from Lavos (also in a pocket dimension). So then, the energy of the Black Omen could simply be limited in that regard to one surge or something.

Quote from: Faulce
So wait, are you saying that the lasers are not there because of the pocket dimension? In other words, you destroy the lasers once in any time period, and they are gone for good? Okay... but then why does the Black Omen exist in past eras even when you destroy it in present? If you destroy the lasers in the present, they are gone for good, but the Black Omen itself.... or maybe I took what you said completely differently from what I should have gotten from it, I have a tendency to do that.

Quote from: V_Translanka
No, I was saying that the Black Omen's energy source for certain things was in a pocket dimension, like how the--if not because the--Mammon Machine is. That is, if they're knocked out of commission in one timeline, they can't have the power to function for the other timelines.

Quote from: V_Translanka
*argues with own theory*

Then why aren't the laser guards still there? If it's just an energy source, they should still be there in physical form, right? Unlike the bosses, they aren't summoned to their position. So, then why are they destroyed when you travel back?

*goes back and argues for the theory*

Well...Because...The...Energy...It...Since...Oh! I know! Because the energy source is depleted, the past occurances needn't have them in the first place!

Quote from: Leebot
My theory on the whole Black Omen problem is that different parts of the Omen are attached to the timeline in different ways. Some, like the laser guards, exist like the End of Time, and defeating them once defeats them in all eras. Other parts, like Queen Zeal, exist in the normal timeline, and if the defeated in the present can be fought again in the past.

Quote from: Faulce
Yay Leebot, good ideas. However, if some things operate with the "destroy it once and its gone for good" idea, then when the Omen is destroyed by Lavos in the Present, wouldn't parts of it just "not exist" in the past? Unless the entire Omen exists in the Normal timeline and only certain beings and weapons inside of it exist like the EoT, wouldn't parts of the Omen be missing? Well I guess not, since the parts are all there, except the lasers and the panels.

Quote from: Leebot
Good point. I'd guess it's just certain animated beings that can fall into the "destroy it once and for all" category (animated beings including organic creatures as well as automated defense systems). The structural elements of the Black Omen would all have to be part of the normal timeline.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Wait, what about the EoT makes anything seem like defeating it once defeats them in all eras? I don't understand his comparison...If I'm reading you, then you're basically saying you believe them to be in pocket dimensions? I'm not sure if that's what you're saying here...

Quote from: Leebot
Well, I'm saying that maybe they behave like pocket dimensions in how they act across various time periods. You can access them from any time period, but it's the actions that you took in your relative perspective that matter, not whether you defeated them in a time period before or after the current one.

Nature: After the disaster in the Ocean Palace, Queen Zeal used the energy she had absorbed from Lavos to empower both herself and the Ocean Palace. This caused the Ocean Palace to rise into the air and become the Black Omen.

Quote from: Excalibur
Why doesn't the Black Omen appear in the original timeline? Realistically, the only thing Crono and gang accomplished was getting Crono vaporized, so it can't be due to their meddling. Ditto Magus. Also, since the Masamune already exists (in AD 600) before you create it (in 12,000 BC)*, somebody ELSE must have done the same (in 12,000 BC) BEFORE the timeline was altered. And wow, typing that sentence almost made my head explode.

The fact remains that the Mammon Machine HAD to have been tampered with (thus creating the Masamune), getting Lavos' attention who then appeared in the Ocean Palace and destroyed Zeal. Now that Lavos has connected to the Palace, Queen Zeal should have joined with it, and raised the Black Omen.
The party's presence should have had no effect on this.

Quote from: Symmetry
We're not sure exactly how the events of the Ocean Palace disaster went down the first time, other than through Janus' claims on the North Cape. However, Crono & Co's interference means that Schala uses the last of her power to send THEM to safety instead of herself and possibly Queen Zeal - thus, no Omen in that scenario.


Queen Zeal - The power-hungry queen of the Kingdom of Zeal. She had the Mammon Machine built to tap into the power of Lavos. When her plan was put into action in the Ocean Palace, it caused Lavos to awaken. Due in part to Crono's interference, she was able to survive this disaster. Empowered by Lavos, she caused the Ocean Palace to rise up and become the Black Omen. Lavos' power also seems to have gifted her with immortality.

The Mammon Machine - A machine created by Queen Zeal to absorb Lavos' energy. In the Lavos timeline, its use caused Lavos to awaken. Lavos then absorbed the Mammon Machine into its pocket dimension. When Crono interfered in the timeline, he caused the destruction of the Mammon Machine. It is this ruined version that the party encounters in the Black Omen. Queen Zeal then sends them into Lavos' pocket dimension, where they encounter the undamaged version from the Lavos timeline.

Nu - Two Nu exist in the Black Omen. They are most likely the same Nu who were seen in the Ocean Palace before it rose. See The Secret of Nu for more information on the Nu.

Project ZEAL / Writing Critique
« on: October 06, 2004, 04:53:14 pm »
I thought I'd start this thread up as a place for commentary and constructive criticism on the writing styles, grammar, and spelling used in the story threads, primarily so we don't clutter up said threads with this stuff. Hopefully, with the community working together, we can create something that not only comprises a variety of writing styles, but we can keep it error-free.

I'll just start out here. Overall, what we have so far looks very good. The only minor problem I've noticed is ZeaLitY's use of the word "our"--a first-person pronoun in a story written in a third-person perspective.

IV: The Temporal Vortex

Mechanics: Standard Time (The timeline of the Temporal Vortex exists in parallel with Home and Another.)

Nature: Serge arrives in the Temporal Vortex after acquiring Lynx's body and being cast off by Dark Serge. The scenery resembles famous painting styles, both Impressionist and M.C. Escher. The chapter subtitle refers to it as "The place where lost souls wander." Both the scenery and the enemies found there (TotalChaos) appear to be completely two-dimensional.

Analysis: The most prevalent theory about the Temporal Vortex is that it is the gap between Home and Another.

Quote from: doulifee
Could be a place between the 2 dimensions, that's why 2-dimensional foes live there and why you can gather all your characters in this place.[Edited for grammar]

This raises the question of why the Temporal Vortex is 2-dimensional. If it's the space between Home and Another, one might expect it to have an additional dimensional element, rather than one fewer. One way this might occur is as follows: We know that Home and Another are connected at many points (Opassa Beach, the Dead Sea/Sea of Eden, the Bend of Time, Turnip, and possibly more). If a path is traced out around these points, it will form a polygon. Stretching this accross another dimension (to bridge Home and Another) will create a two dimensional surface that bridges the gap between the two dimensions. If we extend this idea, the Escher-inspired portion of the Temporal Vortex might represent a knot in the connections.

The fact that the Temporal Vortex is represented by artistic styles that are very recognizable to players is highly indicative that the Temporal Vortex is QC-like.


Sprigg - Little green woman capable of morphing into monsters. She doesn't say much about her past, but we know the following tidbits:

Quote from: Leebot
Quote from: Fortune Teller
......! It's been a long time, Lady Sprigg. Have you been well?

Analysis: She's definitely been to Another before, even though the TV only connects to Home (at least, for us).

Quote from: GreenGannon
You say Sprigg has been to another, yet her TV connects to home. She probably last visited El Nido before the Time Split.

Quote from: Leebot
Quote from: Frozen Flame
This is power I can't make me own...
Hah! There ain't no use telling me to do anythin', chum! don't ave to tell me nothin'!
I know I might've led an easier life if I'da been kinder to otherz...

Quote from: ZeaLitY
Sprigg, Guile, and Sneff all belong to some esoteric, magic guild. Whether we can interpret these as leftovers from the time when Magus was Guile is unknown, but it does mean these guys are in some kind of cahoots.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
If you take Sneff to Guile, he begins ranting about Guile being the rising star in the guild. Sprigg is supposed to say something as well, but I'm not sure who I need to take to who. I'll try it later.

Analysis: We know so little about Sprigg that any theorizing is better left to fanfic writers. A few possibilities:

1. She might have been a treasure hunter who tried to steal the Frozen Flame.

2. She's a reclusive magician.

3. She's a demon.

General Discussion / How to Speak Message Boarder
« on: September 29, 2004, 09:36:34 am »
Enjoy. Little warning: Some of this refers to roll XdY; if you don't know, this is a P&P RPG mechanic which means roll X Y-sided dice.

1. Roll 1d20. On a roll of 20, write the post entirely in caps and skip step 4. Otherwise, proceed normally. Note that some boards use a filter to block out messages in all caps. You can get around this by replacing an "I" with a lowercase "L." Most typefaces show these identically.

2. Write out your post in its entirety, using proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

3. Now, go back and edit your post. First, delete all commas, semi-colons, colons, apostrophes, hyphens, dashes, parentheses, and spaces after periods.

4. Roll 1d3. On a roll of...
----1: Make all letters at the beginnings of sentences lowercase, but keep all proper nouns and adjectives capitalized (unless they're at the beginning of a sentence).
----2: Make all letters at the beginnings of proper nouns and adjectives lowercase, but leave the first letter of a sentence capitalized (unless the sentence begins with a proper noun or adjective.
----3: Make all letters lowercase.

5. Starting with the first word of your post, roll 2d6. Count that many words into your post to find the next "Target Word." For each Target Word, roll 1d4. On a roll of...
----1: Reverse the order of the last two letters of the word.
----2: Delete the space immediately after the word.
----3: Select a vowel in the word and replace it with another vowel of your choice.
----4: Select any letter in the word and replace it with another letter that is found on a neighboring key.
Repeat this until you reach the end of your message.

6. Run the spellchecker. For each word that comes up, roll 1d3. On a roll of 3, replace the word with an incorrect suggestion. Otherwise, leave it alone.

VII: The Darkness Beyond Time

Mechanics: Time-Error (When a traveler enters the Darkness Beyond Time, they enter at the time* corresponding to the time-error of the portal they used to access it. When an event occurs in the Darkness Beyond Time, it affects only timelines which exist at time-errors after the time* at which the event occurs)

Nature: The Darkness Beyond Time is the "garbage dump" for pieces of timelines that have been cut off due to the effects of time travel.


Time-Devourer - The fusion of Schala and Lavos. It aims to devour all of the timeline.

Analysis: Each parent timeline most likely has its own, unique, Darkness Beyond Time, and possibly its own Time Devourer within it.

Quote from: Symmetry
I assume there is a timeline where Crono & crew failed to defeat Lavos.

Which brings up a problem, or what appears to be a problem. What happens when the Time Devourer defeats Serge? If there is a timeline for each possibility... this would seem to lead to the Time Devourer being successful in its goal, for all it needs to do is fuse with Schala and it will consume everything, right?

Perhaps the DBT functions under another set of rules wherein the actions that take place there are "final"?

Quote from: GrayLensman
The bad ending of Chrono Trigger addresses your first question. In every time-line that existed before Crono defeated Lavos, the Day of Lavos is not averted. "But...the future refused to change."

Secondly, the time-line of the Time Devourer in the DBT is completely separate from that of Serge and company. A good analogy is that the axis of the time-lines are perpendicular. Time does not pass in the DBT relative to the outside world. The timeline where the TD is completed only exists in the future of its own dimension, and the destruction of the universe will not occur in Serge's own future.

Quote from: Symmetry
I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're saying and I'm not sure I communicated properly what I wanted to say. Lemme try again.

Even if the two timelines are prependicular, at some point in the DBT the Time Devourer will face Serge, correct? At that point, whenever it happens, there is the possibility that Serge loses. If the Time Devourer is successful in any timeline, this would mean the destruction of the universe. Thus, if there exists a timeline for every possible outcome, the destruction of the universe would be inevitable - if the DBT follows the same rules as other timelines.

Does that make sense?

Quote from: Leebot
I see what you're saying. The best explanation would be to say that the Time Devourer can only "devour" one timeline. It lacks the power to cross over to separate timelines (where Serge defeated it) and devour them.

Quote from: GrayLensman
That isn't the case, because the Time Devourer is supposed to consume all space and time.
Belthasar: The Devourer of Time is a new life-form... Born out of the fusion of a life-form from this planet with Lavos, who nests on the far side of the dimensional void. In the far-off future, when the fusion ecomes complete, IT will awaken... Then, the Devourer of Time will begin to consume all space-time continua... Despair and hatred... To return all things to nothingness... That is what IT desires.

This isn't too hard to understand, but I explained it rather poorly. I'll try to be more sensible this time.

If the TD existed on the same space-time as Serge, in the time-line where Serge had not yet defeated the TD (i.e. before the time crash), the TD would have an unlimited duration of time to mature and thus result in the destruction of all existence. If the TD experienced a passage of time as time passed in normal space-time, the TD would have appeared and destroyed all existence the moment Crono landed the death-blow to Lavos.

Thus, we conclude that time does not pass relative to the outside universe for the Time Devourer in the Darkness Beyond Time (the time axis are perpendicular). This is similar to how Lavos' pocket dimension behaves: Lavos experiences a passage of time, but not relative to the outside world. From all time periods, Lavos appears to be in the same state. This is explained in more detail in the Lavos topic.

In Chrono Trigger, Lavos is always fully mature. In the original timeline, Lavos was mature because the Day of Lavos had occurred. We can conjecture that the Reptite Dimension would exist while Lavos was maturing within the pocket dimension. After Crono Started changing the time-line, Lavos remained unchanged, regardless of the time-period.

Likewise, the Time Devourer exists within the Darkness Beyond Time, which is a completely separate dimension from Home/Another. The TD experiences time as we know it, but not relative to Serge's space-time. At every instance on the TD's time-line in the DBT, it appears frozen in time from any point on Serge's time-line. An unlimited time may pass on Serge's time-line without the TD every appearing. The instant the TD reaches the maturity on its own time-line, it will instantaneously be manifested at all points on Serge's time-line—a scenario which never comes to pass. Even in the bad ending of Chrono Cross, the TD simply returns to its (relatively) frozen existence, and Serge may live out his life in peace.

All possible time-lines may be represented by separate dimensions. We don't know whether the DBT is common to all dimensions, or if there can thus be more than one TD. It would seem that if there are multiple Time Devourers, the destruction of the universe is a possibility. This is a topic requiring further discussion.

Quote from: Symmetry
This is what I was trying to get at. If the TD wins in one, it seems to effectively win in all. As you said, this hinges on whether or not there are multiple Time Devourers.

Quote from: chronotriggerfreak
As far as I see it, all the "Timelines" (Lavos, Keystone 1 and Keystone 2) we actually play in are contained within one "dimension." Home and Another are the only separate dimensions we actually see, and we hear of the Reptite dimension that Dinopolis came from. The Darkness Beyond Time exists essentially above and beyond all the other dimensions, and as such it does not have any parallel dimensions in which alternate events and results occur. Therefore, if the TD is defeated there, that's it. It's gone.

Which, I think, is exactly the same as what everyone else has been saying, but I'm just checking.

Quote from: ZealitY
That is mostly correct; however, probability negates that and suggests that there is only one Darkness Beyond Time per dimension or dimensions that exist as branches of one another. Surely, if infinite dimensions exist, and one Time Devourer who could destroy them all could come about, would not the universe already be destroyed? That is why I believe there is one DBT per dimension or dimensional branch, and that timelines change and exist within a parent dimension. Crono never split the dimensions of the Keystone, or Another dimension, but simply rewrote time. Only the act of saving Serge somehow caused the dimensions to split, whereas the Reptite Dimension and Radical Dreamers Dimension are separate possibilities completely which do not branch directly from the others as Home World does from Another.

This is why I believe the word 'dimension' in the Chrono series should be thought of as representing moreso tangible universes than just possibilities.

Quote from: Leebot
These are the possibilities that I can see to explain this:

1) Belthasar was exaggerating slightly, or we're misinterpreting him; the Time Devourer can only devour its own dimension.

2) The DBT is the same for all dimensions, and the TD only exists once within it. Serge defeated the one TD, so that's that.

3) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. Through some quirk of fate/probability, there is a 100% chance that if the TD is created, it will be destroyed.

4) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One of them will eventually (along its own perpendicular time axis) devour everything. However, the timelines we see are not yet at that "time," and will exist until that "time." Since some form of "time" must flow for the TD, it can only devour timelines from a certain "time" on. We're screwed, but we'll never know it.

5) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One succeeded in devouring all of reality. This game is just what would have happened if it hadn't.

Aside: The idea of a second, perpendicular time axis is the basis of my Time-Error theory, which helps explain possibility 4. I explained it here:

To me, theory 1 seems the most likely. The possibility that a TD or similar beast could exist which would devour all dimensions and all continua coupled with infinite possibilities would seem to prevent the universe from existing at all. There must be some limit on its power.

Quote from: ZealitY
The limitation of the DBT per dimensions or directly branched dimensions is evidence by the fact that otherwise, infinite Lavoses and Schalas would be sent to the Darkness Beyond Time in conditions favorable for forming Time Devourers, meaning an infinite number would exist, and that eras from the Chrono series world float by in transparent spheres while one is at the DBT.

Lastly, dimensions simply cannot be transcended; under the word 'universe' they are the highest categories, universes in themselves which cannot be crossed or visited save by a Missing Piece responsible for the branching of a dimension off another or by an Entity/planet (the latter falls under the Time Crash, which itself is a total enigma). I believe that this effectively limits Belthasar's statement that the Time Devourer will consume all space-time; in all likelihood, it can only consume what exists in its own dimension and universe, as it seemingly has no way to access other dimensions. Additionally, it would be consuming an infinite amount if it were to devourer every dimension.

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