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361
Special Event Polling / Re: Rate Cross Characters 25: Norris
« on: September 20, 2007, 12:23:27 am »
Character Design: Very nice design. He almost seemed generic, but has just enough flare that he stands out.
Combat Usefulness: He's a good yellow element, and I used him quite often.
Tilt: He's a helpful character who wants to do the right thing, and even though he's deeply loyal to Porre, he doesn't let it stand in the way of the truth. He's a lot like Glenn (which has already been pointed out in this thread), but I actually like the Dragoon a little better. That doesn't mean I don't like Norris, though. I love his character, and a Chrono Cross game without Norris as a playable character would be much poorer indeed.
Final Grade: A.
Combat Usefulness: He's a good yellow element, and I used him quite often.
Tilt: He's a helpful character who wants to do the right thing, and even though he's deeply loyal to Porre, he doesn't let it stand in the way of the truth. He's a lot like Glenn (which has already been pointed out in this thread), but I actually like the Dragoon a little better. That doesn't mean I don't like Norris, though. I love his character, and a Chrono Cross game without Norris as a playable character would be much poorer indeed.
Final Grade: A.
362
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 20, 2007, 12:04:36 am »Excellent points, and I hate to detract the topic at all, but one little thing in the first post kinda irked me.
Blue hair isn't magical. There were tons of brown-haired people in Zeal (Dalton to name one), Lucca's mom has blue hair, as do many PCs in CC. It's Japanese, so they like to use funky hair colors to differentiate characters.
I wasn't necessarily claiming that it was (though, there is no in-game evidence to point either way). If you reread that post, you'll see that I was discussing the the formation and evolution of Schala's epigenome in Zeal. I suggested that her upbringing in Zeal developed her epigenome to express exotic and magical traits, and that it was possible that the gene for blue hair was located on the same gene for magical abilities. Overall, I was merely trying to illustrate that Schala and Kid would both possess very different epigenomes, even if their basic genomes are identical.
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Back to the topic at hand! I myself like to think of it in Eva SPOILER SPOILER terms. Rei is a sorta-clone of Yui but has different hair and eyes for no particular reason(actually put in by the designers to make her look different from the rest of the cast) other than her Angel DNA. But then I'd start comparing Lavoids to Angels... and well, I think it's best to keep headaches in one series at a time.
I don't really know anything about this to reply with.
Sorry. It could be interesting to see what the word used for "daughter-clone" was in the Japanese version of the game, especially so we can compare it with the term "bunshin" (offshoots) used in CT's Japanese version:Quote from: CT Japanese scriptAnd then, just as if laying eggs, it gives
birth to its own offshoots, one after another,
from the place I named Death Mountain.Quote from: Kwhazit's notesoffshoots = 'bunshin', one of those words that doesn't translate well. Sort of, but not exactly, 'clone'.
In CT's English version, the term "offshots" is not used because Belthasar uses a verb, "Lavos continues to replicate", instead. Note that this bunshin stuff isn't the same term as Lavos Spawn, which is simply Mini Lavos in the Japanese version.
Yes, I agree, we need to know what the Japanese term is to really get anywhere.
Yep, that's what I was meaning. Parthenogenesis.
What I meant was that, just as Kebrel said, the word daughter-clone was misused, but not in a bad-translation thing, but to take another sense (hence, the one of Kid was a daughter that took schala's DNA of both sides).
Taking Schala's DNA from both sides and then being born as usual would make Kid a daughter--not a daughter-clone. She would possess an entirely unique DNA than Schala. If she's not an exact genetic replica Kid is not a clone. If Schala took two of her ova and combined them, this is asexual reproduction and creates a new, unique genome.
I mean, there are several species of insects that do this, but we don't say that the insects clone themselves, do we? No, they create new, varied individuals that adapt to their environments. Therefore, if Kid is produced in this way, she is a daughter, and is in no way a clone.
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You have a point in her not usually beign able to do this even in this sense, but keep in mind that the male contribution to reproduction in humans - the spermatozoid - is almost completelly thrown away but for the DNA. So she would not need to a god-like spell to generate a child, only take the DNA of one of her ovums and join with the one of the other inside either of them, and them let it keep going like a usually fertilized one (I'm serious, there were once studies to make this in labs in real life).
True, but this would still make Kid a daughter, not a daughter-clone. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, here, but a clone is a genetic replica. It doesn't matter that Kid was produced by Schala's DNA alone. If she was produced in this manner, the genome has been recombined and is not the same anymore...and unless it is exactly the same, Kid's not a clone. And the game clearly states that she is a daughter-clone. You can't have half a clone, or a sorta clone. Someone is either a clone or they're not.
But this relies on the assumption that the Japanese version also says 'daughter-clone'. It is very, very possible that the term was either misused or mistranslated in English.
363
Special Event Polling / Re: Rate Cross Characters 23: NeoFio
« on: September 14, 2007, 04:59:07 am »
Design: In a weird way, her in-game sprite is kinda cutesy... She looks so sad all the time.
Combat: Her techs annoyed me, so I never really used her.
Tilt: A plant based character is interesting in and of it self (a little), and then you have the little side-trip to obtain the Life Sparkle. Her little speech about her perceived meaningless existence does endear me to her a little. A little bit. But she never should have been a PC.
Final Grade: D
Combat: Her techs annoyed me, so I never really used her.
Tilt: A plant based character is interesting in and of it self (a little), and then you have the little side-trip to obtain the Life Sparkle. Her little speech about her perceived meaningless existence does endear me to her a little. A little bit. But she never should have been a PC.
Final Grade: D
364
Fan Fiction / Re: Radical Dreamers - Le Trésor Interdit
« on: September 14, 2007, 04:45:50 am »
I liked this. I look forward to more. 
365
General Discussion / Re: Akward question time!: What song would you play at your wedding?
« on: September 14, 2007, 04:32:19 am »Oh, I totally forgot about OWA!
I'd do it in the style of the second limited edition disc's menu screen, so after hearing a split-second of drums, the audience is completely melted by the full strength of NOLI MANERE IN MEMORIA and the explosive guitar and orchestra. Then I'd turn, the pure resolve and profound beauty of Sephiroth in my eyes...
*sigh* If only I could meet a guy who wouldn't think my gaming ways were weird--out in real life, I mean... The guests would be confused, but he and I would know it was true love as One-Winged Angel rang through the chapel... I can hear it now--our wedding recessional would be the Hymn of the Fayth from FFX. I could be his Yunalesca, he my Sephiroth...
366
General Discussion / Re: Akward question time!: What song would you play at your wedding?
« on: September 13, 2007, 07:39:14 am »
I would so play 'One-Winged Angel' at my wedding. And would probably then stand there and watch as my husband runs away in fear of the psycho-lady he just married.
And yes, I'm serious.
Though if I had to go mainstream, I might play "Hanging by a Moment" by Lifehouse, or "The Cure" by Miro.
And yes, I'm serious.
Though if I had to go mainstream, I might play "Hanging by a Moment" by Lifehouse, or "The Cure" by Miro.
367
General Discussion / Re: I know this is kind of odd to ask...
« on: September 13, 2007, 07:37:34 am »
Voted for you. Good luck.
368
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 13, 2007, 07:33:13 am »Two thing just popped in to my head,
1. Is it so hard to believe that they were misusing the word Daughter-clone?
2. Lavos could vary well be parthenogenesis, as there are offspring in the year 2300A.D., then while Schala was joined with Lavos she could have used Lavos' biology to provide means to produce Kid, there has been a dog that give birth to kittens, and hornets reproduce in tree's for nutrition.
1 - This is actually a very good point, and the answer depends on how the Japanese script reads. If it says 'daughter' without the 'clone', then yes, the English translation of 'daughter-clone' is almost certainly incorrect and something else is at play. If it says 'daughter-clone', then no, unless somebody screwed up in the writing department and they simply used the wrong word (which, I have a hard time believing, because most people today know what a clone is). If someone is a clone, they are a genetic copy of the original subject. Parthenogenesis creates a new, recombined, individual genome--a daughter, not a daughter-clone.
2 - Well, yes and no. The possibility that Lavos uses parthenogenesis to reproduce is high, yes. It seems that he uses some form of asexual reproduction at the very least. However, since it is through an ovum (egg) that parthenogenesis would take place, and the human ovum cannot divide under any significant length through a similar process, then the egg that Schala would have to use would be Lavos' ovum, in which case Schala's DNA would never even enter the equation. The very definition of parthenogenesis is that it uses one egg, and recombines the DNA accordingly, and uses no outside DNA. If somehow she had managed to insert her own genetic material inside of Lavos' ovum, the genome would have to be modified in order to allow for the fertilization to happen in the first place. Kid would be the genetic daughter of both Lavos and Schala (and as Zeality pointed out earlier in the thread, she would take on some of his characteristics, like spikes and such). She wouldn't have 'just a little' of his DNA, she'd have half his DNA, cause he'd be her father.
Short of some incredible, god-like spell, Schala could not reproduce asexually using her own eggs. In order to do so, she'd have to carry the child herself, and then continuously hold this spell for several weeks into the growth of the fetus to guide its development--maybe even longer. And again, if she uses Lavos' eggs, it becomes something else entirely, because then Kid would have two genetic parents--Schala and Lavos. That would be fertilization, not parthenogenesis. I seriously doubt she had that kind of energy and time to drive into a spell.
Another option is that she inserted her own genetic material inside of an ovum, fertilizing the cell and thus cloning herself. The cells would divide normally, and as I've said earlier in the thread, a tiny amount of genetic variation would occur as the fetus grows. The epigenome would develop to be completely unique. This is not the same as asexual reproduction.
By the way, the 'dog giving birth to a kitten' story is actually not true. The dog in question gave birth to a dog with a gene mutation. It looks like a cat, but is a dog.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2371905.html
369
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 13, 2007, 12:47:16 am »
Given the in-game evidence we have, I do not believe this is the case. (By the way, in English, it's parthenogenesis)
Parthenogenesis (more commonly known among the masses as 'virgin birth') is asexual reproduction in which a female reproduces without the fertilization by a male. You typically find it in flower species, insects, and a very few species of reptiles. In a human, two of the same chromosomes will produce a female child (XX), thus any human child created through parthenogenesis will be female. If Kid were produced this way, the genetic material in the egg would be considerably varied, Kid may not look/act/share anything like Schala at all.
There is considerable debate on whether parthenogenesis is possible in humans. The presence of dermoid cysts in both male and female bodies seem to suggest that it might be, on some level at least. (Dermoid cysts are malformed embryonic growths or tumors occasionally found in various parts of the body that contain teeth, hair, and various other malformed body parts.) Since these cysts develop and grow without being fertilized, some scientists believe they speak to either a higher or lower level form of reproduction that could exist within a human being. But at least for now, it isn't possible for a human being to reproduce all on its own--unless they are truly hermaphroditic, in which assistance from either a lab or from magic you would be able to fertilize your own embryo. That wouldn't be parthenogenesis, just plain fertilization. And as far as I know, there is no in-game evidence that points towards Schala being able to do that.
Also, a child produced via parthenogenesis is quite different than a child produced through genetic cloning. Parthenogenesis is clearly a form of reproduction, and the new organism is not a copy of the original. If this were the case, Kid would absolutely be Schala's daughter--no doubt about it. You could not call her a daughter-clone, because cloning would have nothing to do with it.
There's simply no way around this. When you throw in the word 'clone', you take the possibility of parthenogenesis out of the equation.
Parthenogenesis (more commonly known among the masses as 'virgin birth') is asexual reproduction in which a female reproduces without the fertilization by a male. You typically find it in flower species, insects, and a very few species of reptiles. In a human, two of the same chromosomes will produce a female child (XX), thus any human child created through parthenogenesis will be female. If Kid were produced this way, the genetic material in the egg would be considerably varied, Kid may not look/act/share anything like Schala at all.
There is considerable debate on whether parthenogenesis is possible in humans. The presence of dermoid cysts in both male and female bodies seem to suggest that it might be, on some level at least. (Dermoid cysts are malformed embryonic growths or tumors occasionally found in various parts of the body that contain teeth, hair, and various other malformed body parts.) Since these cysts develop and grow without being fertilized, some scientists believe they speak to either a higher or lower level form of reproduction that could exist within a human being. But at least for now, it isn't possible for a human being to reproduce all on its own--unless they are truly hermaphroditic, in which assistance from either a lab or from magic you would be able to fertilize your own embryo. That wouldn't be parthenogenesis, just plain fertilization. And as far as I know, there is no in-game evidence that points towards Schala being able to do that.
Also, a child produced via parthenogenesis is quite different than a child produced through genetic cloning. Parthenogenesis is clearly a form of reproduction, and the new organism is not a copy of the original. If this were the case, Kid would absolutely be Schala's daughter--no doubt about it. You could not call her a daughter-clone, because cloning would have nothing to do with it.
There's simply no way around this. When you throw in the word 'clone', you take the possibility of parthenogenesis out of the equation.
370
Special Event Polling / Re: Rate Cross Characters 22: Mojo
« on: September 12, 2007, 11:59:53 pm »
Character Design: Interesting...I do like the candles on his head. Interesting that a straw doll would be carrying around fire all the time...
Combat Usefulness: I usually never recruited him, but the one time I did he was decent. I never used him beyond Viper Manor, but he was okay, I guess.
Tilt: His accent annoys me to no end. He gets a little story, but... *sigh* He just doesn't grab my heart.
For his interesting design, and semi-usefulness in battle, I give him a C
Final Grade: C.
Combat Usefulness: I usually never recruited him, but the one time I did he was decent. I never used him beyond Viper Manor, but he was okay, I guess.
Tilt: His accent annoys me to no end. He gets a little story, but... *sigh* He just doesn't grab my heart.
For his interesting design, and semi-usefulness in battle, I give him a C
Final Grade: C.
371
Special Event Polling / Re: Rate Cross Characters 21: Miki
« on: September 11, 2007, 04:48:14 am »
Character Design: She is pretty, and I actually like the star tattoo on her face, and the crecent moon headband...but the rest of her outfit is kinda weird. What's up with the leggings and the strange, flip-flop-like shoes?
Combat Usefulness: I actually found her "Dance On Air" tech quite useful in combat...but not much else. All in all, I didn't think she should have been a playable character at all.
Tilt: So, we have another girl pining away over an unrequited love interest. And...that's about all we know about her character. She dances and sings a little during the concert scene (which, I have to admit, I really liked the concert), then gets depressed and joins Serge. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Final Grade: D
Combat Usefulness: I actually found her "Dance On Air" tech quite useful in combat...but not much else. All in all, I didn't think she should have been a playable character at all.
Tilt: So, we have another girl pining away over an unrequited love interest. And...that's about all we know about her character. She dances and sings a little during the concert scene (which, I have to admit, I really liked the concert), then gets depressed and joins Serge. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Final Grade: D
372
General Discussion / Re: Quote Digest
« on: September 11, 2007, 02:12:15 am »
My three favorite quotes of all time:
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"Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."--Mark Twain
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"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it."--Confucius
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"Love is the emblem of eternity:--Germaine De Stael
it confounds all notion of time,
effaces all memory of a beginning,
all fear of an end."
373
Dream Splash I - Zeal [2007] / Re: Alphard and Demeria
« on: September 09, 2007, 04:54:46 am »
Wow. Incredible! This is very interesting, and your writing style makes it an enjoyable read, as well.
374
Special Event Polling / Re: Rate Cross Characters 20: Mel
« on: September 09, 2007, 04:49:29 am »
Character Design: A little kid, and a brat at that. Not cute at all.
Combat Usefulness: The double-tech with Kid is nice, but that's not enough reason to keep her in the party.
Tilt: Ugh. Didn't like her at all. Not even a little bit. Like others have said, she screams Yuffie and she's not even as redeeming or useful.
Final Grade:D.
Combat Usefulness: The double-tech with Kid is nice, but that's not enough reason to keep her in the party.
Tilt: Ugh. Didn't like her at all. Not even a little bit. Like others have said, she screams Yuffie and she's not even as redeeming or useful.
Final Grade:D.
375
Special Event Polling / Re: Further Character Discussion
« on: September 08, 2007, 06:03:57 pm »
Um...well, I missed the Glenn poll, so...
Design: Lovely design, even it if it is slightly based on Glenn of CT. He's even got a cool battle scar.
Combat: I always used him as often as possible, being one of my favorite characters in the whole game. One Einlanzer was nice, but two? Wicked. He could kick some unholy arse in battle.
Tilt: I think he's really cool, and have thought that since the first time I played the game. In fact, on my very first playthrough, when I realized that I'd missed the opportunity to acquire him (because I chose to save Kid) I restarted the whole game again. To me, he's the character that I always wanted to know more about, even though the game didn't provide a lot. And then there is his awesome fortune that he receives in Termina:
[Fortune Teller]
If I were to equate you
to something, you would be
the moon.
[Glenn:]
Moon...?
[Fortune Teller]
Yes, the moon.
The moon only shines when
there is a sun to reflect.
The moon does not glow with
its own light...
But remember this!
The moon's light is a guidepost
to those that search in
the darkness of the night.
A time will come when you will
carry out such a role...
Sometime in the near future.
In my opinion, easily the most awesome fortune EVER.
I can't help it, the guy is just my favorite character in the game. I know I'm biased, but I give him an A.
Final Grade: A
Design: Lovely design, even it if it is slightly based on Glenn of CT. He's even got a cool battle scar.
Combat: I always used him as often as possible, being one of my favorite characters in the whole game. One Einlanzer was nice, but two? Wicked. He could kick some unholy arse in battle.
Tilt: I think he's really cool, and have thought that since the first time I played the game. In fact, on my very first playthrough, when I realized that I'd missed the opportunity to acquire him (because I chose to save Kid) I restarted the whole game again. To me, he's the character that I always wanted to know more about, even though the game didn't provide a lot. And then there is his awesome fortune that he receives in Termina:
[Fortune Teller]
If I were to equate you
to something, you would be
the moon.
[Glenn:]
Moon...?
[Fortune Teller]
Yes, the moon.
The moon only shines when
there is a sun to reflect.
The moon does not glow with
its own light...
But remember this!
The moon's light is a guidepost
to those that search in
the darkness of the night.
A time will come when you will
carry out such a role...
Sometime in the near future.
In my opinion, easily the most awesome fortune EVER.
I can't help it, the guy is just my favorite character in the game. I know I'm biased, but I give him an A.
Final Grade: A