Messages

1

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 08, 2019, 04:08:11 pm »

The storm aspect does play a very important role in Cross.  It's a major part of the story, which was why I thought it might be a nice thematic element. If it doesn't work, oh well!

It's not the theme that is bad, it's how it is presented, since it is super cloudy, no real feel of a storm (super rough sea, overwhelming thunder), it is just more of the generic cloudy that is bad xd

Also, PMed you! 

2

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 08, 2019, 12:16:13 pm »

Before I begin this post, I would argue this is the most important I write, since it even includes many photoshop examples, and in-depth points for both videos.

I liked the abruptness of the logo popping in with the hit in the orchestra.  As for the hit, it's part of the arrangement as it serves as a transition.  So I can't extend that at all.

It's alright it's not a big deal, but I had to mention it. The fact that the logo and title are very minimalistic/simplistic doesn't really connect with the "Impact". It doesn't slam or have that feeling of epicness, but it works regardless (the trailer's rusty Cross Symphonic would help, but it is kinda out of place/theme cuz rust/metallic)
tl;dr: leave it be, it works 

I could look into another texture, but it will be hard to implement with the steel lettering. Part of what makes that cool is that the letters slowly rust over and disintegrate as the video progresses.  I will have to see if I can make that work with a sky background.

I understand the steel lettering, but it could fit with many textures/materials, like a glossy glass. Like, a "fluid" (as in, seem like some metal having some water inside), kinda like the animation of the steel lettering, and it would fit, though it needs tinkering, but the concrete is bad. Damn, a simple recolor would save the day, posted far far below (dont skip to it, read all up to it)

I'd appriciate everyone's opinion about which opening they like the best, and which is most effective?

I'm kinda surprised. You changed it a lot, the theme and the feels.
I also did some photoshop on your trailer to help, but read my points before seeing the pictures/examples

• The flame is definitely more fitting, though it really touches that purple tint which is kinda weird. I would say it doesn't have a color related to CC, detailed the color on the attachment below (currentColor.jpg)
  I would go for a mix of blue and teal tbh, like the attachment below (CC Color.jpg) but definitely even now it is a lot better than just orange flame. I don't know if you did it because of the "Storm" theme, but I would highly suggest to change the color of the flame's logo to the above mentioned.
• The flame particles. As for the contrast with the logo or the flame, like the orange flame, there is none. However, in this case, the particles take the role of "magical particles" instead of "epic scorch". So in the flame particles, it is a downgrade I think.
  
  The above reason is why I suggested to change only the logo's flame, because orange particles would keep the feeling of epicness, while also contrasting the blue/teal, because now it doesn't really contrast the purple-ish blue.
  
  I get that you may have changed them because of "The Storm" feel, but more on that below
• The feeling of epicness in the orange flame version is better. It is 100% dark, with just the flame particles and the logo burning, while keeping the song in the background. Especially useful because the pitch black helps keep the attention to what matters.
  Which is... The logo and the music. Excellent build up. However, in the "Storm" one, there are a lot of clouds/smoke or whatever that destoy that buildup and serve no goal really. Hence, the epicness is kinda ruined
• The reveal of the logo is meh. No background texture either, but it didn't really have an impact, especially since it wasn't revealed through pitch black.
  

Also what Kodokami suggested is very valid

All in all, the "Storm" feel is I think not good. Not just thematically (idk if some major storm event happened in CC's story/gameplay) but it just doesnt hook me, and it is kinda amateurish. I do understand that you did it as an extension to fit the flame's color, especially when the background/texture (concreeete) is the problem, but changing everything altogether to remove the meh concrete is... questionable 
However, I do recognize you put a lot of time into this video, time that could help the kickstarter in other ways, hence I made this post super informative because time is super valuable on your part.

As of now, in my opinion, the blue opening has a better logo/flame, but the orange flame video is more "epic" and better/more likely to hook

===========
Photoshop example for this is very near, sorry for making you read so long but the points are really insightful
But before that, my suggestion after seeing both is this:
Recoloring the flame logo turned out to be a great idea. Keep it, and try the color mentioned above (also in the attachments)
So, simply go to the original flame video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2w6rMlMoHg and change the flame color^, nothing else, before you further add anything.
As for the lettering and the concrete, you say the letters are steel/rusty, but the metallic value is so high it looks more like glass, which makes it a perfect fit for a glass texture on the back, without even recoloring the letters. If you insist on not putting a glass or other fitting texture/material, just do a recoloring (detailed in 2 paragraphs after this one)
I was thinking of the glass thingy more, and it sounds a little more complicated in practice, since you need glass, and any water, but to be move-able. Aka, either 2D animation, or scrollable texture (the easiest since you can take any texture as is) or have it get some 3d physics.
Too much effort to just tinker with it really, so I did a small test/photoshop realfast

Enjoy -> https://imgur.com/a/98e1Bst <-
(also for the particles above, see the end because this applies here as well, aka orange to slowly transition to 100% teal)

My point with the above being, that at 0:21 where the pitch-black starts retreating to reveal the background (instead of lame concrete, or generic clouds/storm), having some kind of "sea" works. The example is the imgur above, but you may feel it needs to have more fluidity (aka the sea wont stay still like a picture), and if you cannot do that... an easier alternative that works too appears.

Recolor the background and letters (also the flame to be more blue like mentioned). Sounds cheesy but it actually works!!

https://imgur.com/a/TzdegvT

Ofc, keep the flame particles, orange. The flame is exactly the color i was mentioning, the feels are epic, while having that underwater feel with just a recolor and the letters feel more "glassy" underwater. If you find the particles not to fit on the reveal (because flame underwater), im pretty sure changing the color of them (slowly) when it reaches that reveal ftw. In fact, the change of colors is interesting because it starts fully epic with the orange flame particles contrasting the blue logo in pitch black, then it subverts expectations into an "underwater" feel.

I put extra effort into this post, because honestly, this trailer can be improved to greatness. And the current trailers are just doing a huge disservice to the huge orchestral project you are trying to do!

Edit: I have no idea about the software you used to make the trailer (after-effects?), but if it is simple to pick up in a day, I can give it a try to at least recolor the trailer to a proper color palette and change the particles' color over time, if not go for the oceanic background texture. It would save me a lot of effort from typing these long paragraphs where you try to guess what I'm saying in my walls of text and I really want to help more   

3

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 07, 2019, 12:48:52 am »

https://youtu.be/u2w6rMlMoHg

... Wow. I have no words, and it definitely is better than what I imagined above... It's pretty amazing tbh. However, I still got to leave a little feedback for some minor edits, to turn the incredible to perfect 

• The background texture at 0:25 is a concrete wall and... it doesn't improve the video or its concept in any way, since concrete is irrelevant to the Chrono franchise.
  tl;dr: Concrete background is generic/dull, something else would be better.
  
  I would suggest a sky or ocean, both of which are "relevant" to chrono in my eyes (especially CC), however since you are going for a dark/epic mood (you have set up everything for it, and it's really good!) perhaps some kind of stained glass or something since the reflections with the flame particle effects would be a fine addition. Perhaps whatever material/texture you used for the "Cross Symphonic" letters since I noticed they are "animated"?
  But yeah, no good suggestion comes in mind, but it should be something else aside of concrete, anything other than concrete!   
  
• The 0:59~1:00 is too abrupt, the logo should at least have a fade-in instead of popping up. Also if possible on the music (since I think the 0:59~1:00 part is cut atop of the track playing) having that final note extend 1 more second and fading out should be pretty good!

Anyone that has played through Cross will recognize this song, as it's one of the most iconic moments from the true ending.

I haven't played CC, but I did recognize it, and damn, it feels like a different and better song entirely, yet so familiar. Definitely hooks the viewer 

As for the only nitpick, is to maybe change the flame forming the logo.
While orange flame particles are really good, the flame logo that forms maybe could have a slightly different one, since, the orange color is too generic, literally the flame of fire in every trailer ever. I have to admit, that in Chrono Trigger, orange is the most common color in the palette, but in Chrono Cross I would argue it is more towards teal/blue.  I especially like how bright the flame is(white color), that is a rare sight for a VFX fire, though it got me thinking that blue/teal (ocean) and white(sky) is such a neat combination. However, change the background before this, because with that color, the background will make the background even more out of place 

As I said earlier, I won't be able to fix any of the talking points. They are what they are, but hopefully this is a better opener.  I also removed Scars of Time from the video.  I can put in a text that says "music below" and just move it to it's own video before the text starts, or something like that.

Though remaking the talking with the excitement of that 3:00~3:12 part, you would get an marketting video that would be flawless and a selling point in itself.  I won't disagree or push you since you made up your mind, though it is more than worth even if it's painful to re-record. However, I would like to at least argue to probably let Scars of Time at the end, for 2 reasons

• The talk of the video ends "Listen to a track that you will all know and love, Scars of Time" *video abruptly ends* lul
• It cannot be found elsewhere aside of the kickstarter video (though this can be fixed easily)(inb4 fixed via remaking the talking part)

Aside of the above feedback, I just want to congratulate you for improving the video, because even if you replace it right now with the test-video you posted, it would be an extreme difference in quality and hooking people. Of course, minor feedback above to make it even better, but I legit didn't expect this much difference in the opening. It is not perfect, but it is just jaw-dropping compared to the previous one. You just gave me inspiration to look more into the presentation aspect of videos, because, damn, even if that opening was to advertise me Chrono Toothbrushes/WaterBottles or whatever, I would be at least interested with that opening lmao

4

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 06, 2019, 07:28:01 pm »

Just chiming in to say, I really love the first test video you had, CptOvaltine, and I was slightly disappointed you didn't use it for the final Kickstarter video. The timing felt perfect, with the first really recognizable tune coming in right at the same time as the red moon reveal. It felt like a one-two punch of realization--this is Chrono Cross!

Thanks Kodokami! Yeah the timing was probably better in the test video... I used the same footage for the final video but I slowed everything way down and changed the background music.  In hindsight that might have been a bad idea. haha

That video is better as an introduction, but it still has all the flaws I mentioned. For the first 5 seconds absolutely nothing interesting happens, and for its entirety, there is no iconic CC track to capture/demand the attention, especially for someone who has played only chrono trigger. And obviously same visuals (brought points in previous posts, tl;dr: for 1 minute, there is absolutely nothing that hooks, kinda reminds me of earth documentaries lel)

As for the subtlety in both videos (both hard to notice from the average viewer):
The current kickstarter has it at 0:47 with scars of time referenced
The test video has it at 0:27 with literally the beginning of scars of time

Seeing that, I think I can safely suggest to start with an iconic track, a track that not just chrono trigger fans can recognize, but also those who are familiar with old VGM. And I'm pretty sure "Scars of Time" or "Star Stealing Girl" is the best way to start musically/audio-wise.
However, since you have already done "Scars of Time", I heavily suggest to start the video with it. However, don't just throw the track there like that. Having that super silent intro doesn't fit aka 5:16 (kickstarter video), because viewers will skip the intro.
(I will reference the time/moments of the song "Scars of Time" by its kickstarter video, since it is not found anywhere else in the kickstarter page)
Alternatives for music start:

• Starting with the exact spot of 5:40 (personally, this is the worse in the list, but still better than the current one)
• Starting with the exact spot of 5:51, which seems like a pretty safe bet and better than the previous but I would advise against it
• Out of the 3, this is my personal favourite, starting by fading in the 6:34 part, which means it gets the mood at the start, and within 10 seconds it gets hype 
• Starting by fading into 6:42, this is more "aggressive" to the viewer and will definitely grab his attention the most, but it does a disservice to the song, and can be misunderstood. After all, if a viewer "needs" to hear such an intro, the rest won't be as fast-paced. However, it does get the job done, aka instant-hook, but I don't suggest it

Let the song play up to 7:25, and while it plays, do present the intro points:
"Presented by Hayward Publishing"
"Arranged by John Paul Hayward"
"Original Music by Yasunori Mitsuda"
and right at 7:25, "Stomp" the logo, to get people hooked to not even bother thinking to skip any parts of the video.

The only disadvantage in the above suggestion, is the fact that the intro will still play for approximately 40 seconds (assuming you go for the personal suggestion) which is a lot (hence the "aggressive" suggestion becomes tempting), but assuming the visuals are improved (dragon god with altering VFX over time or something) , then you got a winner 

5

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 06, 2019, 09:21:46 am »

It's a little complicated to explain.  Each track covers a portion of the story, and each portion of the story contains several themes from the game. So the tracks are essentially converted themes from the game, however there's a lot of original interpretation and content that connects the themes together.  Some songs are fairly true to the originals, some are heavily modified. Does that make sense? 

A good example would be to listen to the tracks I'll post below, then to listen to Track 01 Torn Between Worlds on the Kickstarter page. (Which contains all of these themes)

https://youtu.be/J46RY4PU8a8
https://youtu.be/Z8ILhJCr60A
https://youtu.be/jZWopPAbPj8
https://youtu.be/YoEMaWrQBQM
https://youtu.be/dJtwEpQe6w0
https://youtu.be/NTKDB-OCcjM

Alright, so (some of) the tracks are a mix of chrono tracks, I did get that 
The question more or less is: Are there more than 17 tracks? I mean, your average kickstarter viewer (including me xD) is confused on this and doesn't fully understand how many tracks are to be covered/made

Kickstarter only provides me with real basic stats.  I can't see the conversion, but I can see that there are 700 ish video views, where only 17% finished the video.  That's pretty normal in marketing.  It's estimated that out of whatever number you reach only about 10 - 15% will be interested in your product, and only about 10 - 15% of those people will actually purchase your product.

Well, the video stats are really important so I had to mention them (how many skipped X parts, and how many really watched the video fully)

As for the statistics, I argue against that the "10~15% of people visiting will be interested in your product" since its really generic and assumes that your exposure reaches everyone regardless of target audience or not, but you have to remember that most of them who actually used the URL (wherever they found it) are interested in Chrono, so that percent could be improved dramatically. Regardless, it's not like there is time to analyze stats and the video extensively and some "magical reward" will happen, but tl;dr: that video needs improval/remake, because even if you do manage to bring a lot of exposure to the kickstarter, the video is the true selling point, the thing that will convince or turn off viewers (and the reason I had to share feedback on it because it is doing a disservice to what you want to create)

I really like the idea of doing an AMA.  I even like the idea of poking fun at my own Kickstarter, though I think it would be better to wait until the last leg of the campaign before we start joking about failing.  Otherwise it could make backers nervous about my resolve for the project.

Understandable to be done a bit later, but do note that you have to schedule/"book" for an AMA in reddit, because I don't think you can suddenly do an AMA. Like, you can do it, but contacting the mods of that (or any other) subreddit should help you get a little more visibility I think. But contacting them will be tricky, since they probably hate advertising (reddit generally is super strict on advertising), so the approach will be hard, but if they approve it would be really good.

An example approach would be contacting them, while telling them that you won't post the kickstarter (url) or advertise it, but if it gets even a bit of traction, you will be asked by people/interest to post it, and mods won't complain or anything since a lot of users will ask

I have seen this example approach many times by game developers, who post sth like: "My game failed, here is what you can learn about it, and my experience", and if it picks up even a little, he is more or less "forced" to post the game. Aka a lot of devs' goal is to market indirectly by posting a legit interesting post that doesn't link to their game

Regardless how you do this, an AMA would help wherever u host it, especially the one mentioned in the previous post

Thank you for all of your kind and helpful words, though. I would love to see your project come to life, and to hear more about it! No matter what happens with Cross Symphonic I'll still love the Chrono games, and I'll continue to try and celebrate them in my own way.

6

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 05, 2019, 08:46:27 pm »

I get your point.  I struggle with this, though. I don't like to belittle other peoples hard work.  Even if it isn't great, everyone has to start somewhere and I've never been comfortable using others as stepping stones.  Besides, once you start comparing yourself to others, you start getting compared to others.  It's a pissing match that never ends well.

It is not belittling, nor insulting other (chrono) fans. It is more of a generalizing, than pointing out a finger to them. As long you present it properly, no one will get offended or demoralized tbh
Hence I said "There are a lot of Chrono covers out there, sure, and while most claim to be Orchestral, so very few really are! Chrono deserves better!" instead of "Other Chrono covers are worse than what I'm about to accomplish"
My point being, the fact there are so very few orchestras (and none like this one) on Chrono, is a very strong point that goes sadly unnoticed in your marketting. If you do remake the talk video, put it somewhere there, so viewers see more value

That being said, I could definitely try to market myself better.    I'm notorious for underselling my abilities and music...

Well, there is always room for improvement, but its not like you have done a horrible or notorious job at marketting or anything, you just didn't prepare enough for a kickstarter, but it's not like the kickstarter failed or anything, though I left plenty of feedback that I hope will be put to good use! (and I'm sure you have heard a lot of feedback from others)

You just called out my worst fear...   I am SOOOO camera shy!  This video was extremely hard for me to make because I'm so uncomfortable in front of the camera. The only way I was able to get through it was by doing it interview style. haha

You certainly have a point though, I'm not great at presenting anything with an excited tone, I never really have been...in my personal life either.

hahaha, didn't expect that, but you definitely have potential to make a strong presentation having seen that 3:00~3:11 part, but it is nothing to be ashameful or fear tbh
It is more of a common trait really, and even a lot of "marketting" people just fake it instead

You make a lot of great points, and I could certainly learn a thing or two on the video side of things.  Ultimately if I ever do something like this again I would rather just hire someone to write the script, then film and edit the thing for me. haha I write music and would LOVE to not have to worry about the rest.

Understandable. Being a jack-of-all trades is impossible. Even in games, game developers make the game, and others who are 100% unrelated, try to sell it for example, because mixing these 2, the end-product suffers. Ofc, not just games, but so many other things haha
After all, exclusively PR companies exist in pretty much every field, for this reason

I'll be honest with you, I'm going to try a different opening graphic for you, something a little more eye catching, (I hope) but I don't have any time to re-film and edit a new video. With my publishing company, marketing the Kickstarter and other composing work there just aren't enough hours in the day.

No worries, running a campaign and multitasking must be super hard. I will check this thread often 

No need to apologize.   Cross Symphonic doesn't directly orchestra themes as they appear in the game. It's an experience that takes the themes from Cross and weaves them into a tapestry of original music to create a film score. There is a huge amount of original content in this album, but it's written in such a way that it all sounds like it was always apart of the original soundtrack.

So to answer the question, you're hearing Scars Left By Time, Arni Village and Reminiscing - Memory 1.  These themes all weave together in the first minuet and a half of the track.

Interesting twist, so for the film score you have planned, you are not just tweaking/converting the songs to "Orchestral" composition/format, but also creating original works that are related to CC? I mean, you mention it will include only 17 pieces, but are the 17 pieces just the originals/licenced converted, and you add more to that?
A little clarification would help to see things more clearly (saw video and kickstarter page and cannot 100% confirm this)

I did re-watch the video to figure out, and you said it is to be like "The Final Symphony" of John Williams, but when you say "If you don't know what Final Symphony is", you follow up with "A fantastic collection of FF music arranged to a classical symphony format" on 1:53+
The format is more or less understandable, but I just can't tell if it will have 17 converted CC scores, or that with a mix of more

=================

Off-topic from the above, do you have Kickstarter stats for your project? Like, what is the view-to-fund ratio, or how many see the video, or more importantly, the stats on the video itself? I have to mention this, because even if you boost up your exposure and suddenly tons of people visit the kickstarter, the video is the true selling point, and the final one.
Pretty much no one will read the rest of the project and fund it without seeing the video (though, the kickstarter page you have made is pretty good on many aspects, tho it could clear some points like the 17-tracks thingy)

As for another off-topic point, I happened to click the gamefaqs link above, and it seems like you have posted there. My marketting skills for forum posts are not noteworthy, but the post feels kinda like an spambot advertisement, except the end where it gets more "cozy". I do point this out though, because just full-posting the kickstarter usually gets ignored and that end-paragraph feels very seperate from the rest and the discussion won't really be organic. Kinda like youtube's "Hey guys, what is YOUR favourite X? Leave a comment below" -> How many really share their favourite X in the end? And even then, these comments never see the top page, since they are not as interesting content as others who are actually organically related to the vid

Don't forget that posts with replies are "hot" which means other users will see them.
Hence, an alternative would be to bait-post, and follow up with the kickstarter on 2nd/3rd reply of a user that replies on the main post, because if you post with a kickstarter advertisement, you will unlikely get a 2nd reply or an organic discussion (though not impossible since you ended it on a good note but still pretty hard and more random)
So I guess for this type of forums, starting with a "bait"/good title like:

(good title)"Why Chrono Cross is actually good, and doesn't deserve the hate" (writing some paragraphs on it) ending it with a "let's discuss" paragraph/epilogue to spark that dialogue, then replying with a "I posted this out of love and curiosity, because I actually have an running kickstarter right now!"

(bait title)"Guys, I played Chrono Cross after having played EVERY modern JRPG, but I think it deserves the hate[Discussion]" trashing CC as bait, then replying like "Pranked, I actually think its amazing and baited people, I also have a kickstarter for it" (it sounds funny, and it does touch "Unorthodox" marketting territory, but I think it would generate more interest and views than the default post)

Ofc, you can't post any of the 2 above if others see you have a kickstarter post already there, so deleting that message you already spent time to post sth like that (on an obscure forum) is a choice for you to make (tho this tip/help can be applied on many forums of similar style)
Regardless, I guess I can make an account on Gamefaqs to "fake" interest and as a result, more people will see your post. If you agree ofc
(inb4 everyone in this forum gathers, to invade forums for visibility xD) (A joke, but it is not a bad idea thinking about it...)

Funnily, typing the above, I did get an idea, more of a suggestion of "Unorthodox" marketting for this project.
Hosting an AMA on reddit (or any other site, though I suggest reddit) with the title of: "About to fail my grand kickstarter, AMA" which will get controversial views, for people to check out the kickstarter "that shouldn't be failing" (emphasis on this, since you won't present it as a dead horse, but one that should succeed but isn't)
A game literally did this and went like: "My game deserves more but it has failed, it has only 5 reviews on steam", and it went to like 100+ reviews on steam after a while, with many sales.
Ofc, it is risky af (since kickstarter funders may see it as a "I give up" move) but I truly think it is an interesting idea to consider. Of course, the responsibility is on you, but in the end of the day,
if the kickstarter fails, thinking "What-if" on such choices is... let's say haunting

If this Kickstarter fails I have a plan B. It's not as exciting or as grandiose as a live orchestra, but it will still be a fun experience for Chrono fans.  It won't meet my vision of giving the music from Cross the spot light or professional treatment, but it will be something that we can all still celebrate and enjoy.

O_o A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one! However, don't plan on it yet, since the Kickstarter can still succeed! That said, I do admire your passion for Chrono. For many months now I have wanted to do a chrono-related project (specific graphic shaders combined with a specific cutscene) but it's just so far away, a year even from starting it... Yet, seeing this project just makes me happy, kind of substituting the joy I would have from finishing my chrono-project.

7

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 04, 2019, 10:28:08 pm »

I can actually edit the video after launch! (Just found that out)  I'm working on a shorter intro with some familiar music to see how it works.  I'll post it here for you to check out once it's finished.

Nice! I had no idea the kickstarter launch video could be changed post-launch!
I will check this thread often, so I will do my best to help with the feedback

My graphical skills are extremely limited, so a part from some of the After Effects stuff I'm posting, there's not a lot I can do. I've spent quite a bit on artists at this point and am not sure how much more I can realistically shell out for more art. I totally get what you mean, and have another poster coming soon!

Well, it is understandable to not spend more for 1 poster, but if so, put the "Dragon God" poster on the start with "Scars of Time" playing since you already have that poster, you can utilize it more 
Alternatively, on the start have a (chill, ocean-blue) sea, with some high-speed clouds, though that does too take work to be done.
I think aside of the dragon god poster, if you have time for this, is to find a picture "that looks like the thing you want to present" and ask the artist to use it as promotional content. Example being the palace of zeal with musicians above, hence there must be some picture in the internet with mages in an orchestra in some colorful palace 

Obviously it takes time to find that + to be lucky for the artist to cooperate "for exposure", so the best bet is just re-using the dragon god poster for the start, with some VFX/After Effects on it, like flames that slowly convert into blue (super indirectly referencing the frozen flame cough cough) or some filters changing. And while it is not as dynamic as "The Earth" zooming/rotating, "The Earth" didn't provide any useful or interesting visual information to the viewer, and it looked generic since every sci-fi and even many documentaries do the "zoom out/rotating to space" camera movement.
Tho, it feels bad that I don't have a "clear best" suggestion for the visual start since I haven't played Chrono Cross. (inb4 suggesting Lavos Meteor haha)

As for the logo, I'm hoping that there's enough difference to dissuade any lawsuit. haha after all, it's just a clock on it's side.   Perhaps I need to have it refined a little more...

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer
I can't tell for sure, but huge companies will sue if they notice any infringement. And the infringements can be non-existent for individuals. That said, you have covered yourself well with the naming (no chrono mentioning in the title) and while the logo isn't far away, if it was, less people would be attracted to it. And then again, you also speak of Chrono (Cross) and mention it often for your "commercial profit", hence you could be sued for any stupid reason if they so wish, like no permission granted or w/e, and even if it doesnt hold in court because its retarded, it can work because you are an individual with not as much money as them blablabla
but then again, I'm not a lawyer
tl;dr: Don't worry, legal issues are an entirely different and huge beast, but if you get sued, you may be one of the most unlucky people in the world. Though, a lot of lawyers are there on the internet that use their (consultation) services for free if you want more details on this topic

I totally see that.  It's actually one of my pitches in the video, to give Cross (and Trigger by association) the spotlight it deserves! It's a hard sell though...there are so many cover albums out there, especially ones that claim to be orchestral and are, in fact, not. The Chrono community especially is bombarded by cover artist after cover artist looking for exposure, so it's hard for them to see through the crowd when it comes to a large scale project like this.

You are correct on the chrono albums/cover artist argument (fake orchestral covers). But you don't really mention them. Aka the generic marketting/product question: "What makes you different than the competition" and you didn't mention other covers, and for this being "A Real Orchestra", which means you are underpresenting a very strong point about your kickstarter.
You could present it like: "There are a lot of Chrono covers out there, sure, and while most claim to be Orchestral, so very few really are! Chrono deserves better!"
And to be honest, I had no idea until you said it, which means you need to "call out" the other covers for being "inferior in quality"(aka the quote above)
While I hear VGM daily, I am not really knowledgeable on composing/musictheory and all that stuff, but yeah I had no idea the others weren't truly orchestral (it makes sense thinking about it) so you should present this, as a unique point. So yeah, I think it would help to bring up the point of: "Chrono deserves an orchestra, and others havent really done it!" (aka low-key call out the fact that chrono hasn't really had an orchestra) instead of "Chrono will get an orchestra"

Because a common trait among chrono fans is this feeling of "this thing i love is ignored and not appreciated by everyone I know", which means that even those who dont like the music, will support this for the game's love or reputation, or supporting other fans

I totally see that.  It's actually one of my pitches in the video, to give Cross (and Trigger by association) the spotlight it deserves!

I had to watch the vid some times to spot this, but there is just a mention/phrase of this in 4:25~4:35, very deep in the video where most chrono fans will have skipped it since its literally at the end of the talk 
My point being, "Let's show off chrono to everyone" argument, should be used far earlier to get the normal chrono fans interested/engaged, because otherwise, only the "hardcore" fans will be interested in this if they are not interested in an orchestra for chrono. In other words, you have to invoke and tap into that emotion of nostalgia, because just a phrase towards the end isn't much and personally I didn't notice it the first times I watched the video (and very few viewers really finish a kickstarter's video even once)

There simply isn't a "Call to Action" (google this phrase) for the average chrono fan!!!



Off-topic from the rest, but still relevant is the excitement in the video. It didn't immediately strike me, but if you compare the talk of 3:00 ~ 3:11, to the rest, it is like night and day, like a different person is speaking.
I don't know if its the fact you are standing very back in the chair like an awkward interview in most of the talk, but I wanted to at least mention it

You have some excellent suggestions though.  I'm going to start researching some things tonight to see if I can come up with some ways to utilize these ideas!

I'm so glad I could help, I wish you the best on utilizing the above for usage in your marketing!
I really wish this will be funded and finished 
I also want to mention that the above suggestions given (of the previous post) aren't really considered in "unorthodox" marketting methods, because they are pretty safe if you ask me.
So, aside of them, I suggest you to think out of the box

I will be online often, and what I can give is suggestions and feedback, but in the end, funding  the project succesfully ends up to you, and it is possible to turn this around! so I wish you the best of luck, however you proceed with it!
I just want to say that managing to fund this in any way, you will be doing a favour to every chrono fan, and many will wish they had funded it on kickstarter when they hear this eventually 
Just thinking about it, it reminds me of some great games that I bought and supported, but I wish I had initially funded on their crowdfunding.

P.S. Apologies for the stupid question, but what song plays at the start of the kickstarter vid?

8

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 04, 2019, 08:24:30 pm »

Note: Did heavy editting, re-read I guess, and also its kinda chaotic, but I promise every phrase and line has meaning.
Note2: I think I finished the editting, I think the points are categorized neatly
Note3: This message has so much information, all cleaned up too! So much time spent, I could have done so much programming in this time, but no regrets! 

Hi Balroth!

Thank you for chiming in, and no worries!  I really appreciate the feedback and know that it comes from a shared love the Chrono series and desire to see this succeed.

 

I've seen these all over the place, and for the life of me cannot find out how to change it!  I tried googling it with no success.  It makes me wonder if Kickstarter has since done away with them?

I have no idea, but you could try contacting Kickstarter (their support probably) to help with this, and it kinda makes sense if they have removed it since I haven't seen a kickstarter with a theme background for quite sometime (though, I rarely browse kickstarter)

You make some great points about the video. The songs that I used should be recognizable to Cross fans, though because of the nature of this album there are only two songs that are presented in an mostly unaltered form.  The rest have been heavily modified to fit the film narrative.  The're easily recognizable to fans of the music, but there are often 3 to 5 different themes playing around in every track - including what you hear at the beginning of the video (Scars of Time, Arni Village, etc.)

Well, the video is made and cannot be changed, so the feedback isn't very useful, but The Scars of Time is the strongest point/hook in that video, and if it started with it, people would just instantly get that nostalgia flowing. A few people will stay and watch the entire video if not interested in first seconds (and as a result, skip this kickstarter altogether) if not hooked at the start, that was my point more or less
P.S. Hearing Scars of Time, in a more "remastered" version kinda makes me think how many variations you can make of it in composition, what a song

The other huge limitation is that I can only use original content. Official artwork (including logos) and game images are copyrighted, so I couldn't use them in any form on the campaign.  I totally see your point though, and it would have been nice to use a scene from the game, or the Cross logo to help draw in the audience...

Well, you don't have to make art that explicitly references copyrighted content 
I mean, you have made a dragon god poster, but for all you show (or what square enix's executives understand lol) it's just some generic RPG party fighting a dragon.
Imply, don't tell 
As for the picture instead of Earth, I don't know a lot about CC locations (aside of chronopolis from crimson echoes), but for example, if this was a Chrono Trigger symphony, you could have a picture of a grand mid-air floating palace/castle, with some magicians playing violin or other instruments. No one could claim this is Zeal!
After all, that logo you have is dangerously close to the CC logo, and if they really wanted to sue you, they would do it under any stupid reason

I'm doing a lot to help boost exposure, but you're right and most people just ignore me. haha  I'm sending out over 100 emails and messages a day to different people that I'm hoping with talk about this campaign. I've already reached out multiple times to people over at Kotaku, Gamespot, IGN, Reddit, Gamespot, The Verge etc.  The big guys aren't interested, so I'm still looking for bloggers and streamers who might be interested in promoting!

Yeah, this is why I suggested "unorthodox" marketting. Having an indie game "heard" atop of all the others is borderline impossible nowadays with the established marketting ways, hence I suggested "Unorthodox" marketting, because in the end of the day, it's what works. Not guerilla marketting, but something that is hard to think but works if pulled properly. Negative publicity marketting included here too, like a developer bad-mouthing/trashing his game is worth mentioning, but I wouldn't suggest it for this project obviously since different genre/medium. If I had such an grand idea "to instantly win kickstarter" I would suggest it, but any time I see something "insane" like that it always works. However, you do have ~20 days to plan something "stupidly insane" that will work (even if it doesn't, you either gain no exposure, or negative exposure which is in most cases beneficial) Hell, even if you do something really stupid to market the game/productkickstarter, there are 3 alternatives:
a) It's stupid/retarded, and it will be covered by others, aka how negative publicity is still suggested (bonus points if you downplay yourself on purpose, then share details of the marketting move)
b) It goes ignored
c) It is extremely stupid and hurts the brand/sales, but its pretty hard to achieve this tbh. (THQ's recent marketting move comes to mind, like, this is top-tier retarded marketting and no move so simple has hit a brand so hard before)

"Unorthodox" marketting (and its success obviously, because doing something insane doesnt matter if it doesnt work) depends on the genre of the medium. To give you an example because throwing out "Unorthodox" marketting without explaining it a little is counter-intuitive and confusing:

Genre/Medium -> Books
Paulo Coehlo (some author/writer) published his book. Printed it via publishing and.... 100 sales.
However, he pulled an insane marketting move. He gave out his book for free! on the entirety of internet, aka everyone can read it without buying it, from anywhere.(when you sell a book, especially as a profession, you do it to gain money by its sales)
Legit piracy, literally a .pdf file on the internet and encouraged people to read it there, while every author knowing this openly trashed him, his book and his reputation for "undermining books"(and their sales). However, long story short, it worked, and it eventually made millions because it raised awareness like that.
Disclaimer: I haven't read any of his books, but a lot of gaming's "wtf" marketting methods, usually point to this guy (about piracy, what a surprise lol) and it's a good example of at first glance, this looks "self-destructive"/retarded/stupid but it is genius, and surprising.

"Unorthodox" marketting isn't heard or discussed anytime, because there is no formula or guide, and usually "it doesn't work", but if it doesn't work, who cares if your (default/vanilla) marketting/product wouldn't work anyway
Writing this far, it does sound like a "miracle marketting with 1 EASY TRICk" haha, but it is super hard to conceive such a plan, but I had to mention it, since only such a thing can really get the kickstarter up and running again in bigger numbers

If you have any specific people or places I should reach out to then please let me know!  I'm happy to reach out.

I don't have any contacts or anything sadly, but you can check out forums/communities that are vaguely related to chrono trigger. Or to go more abstract, SNES gaming or chiptunes.
But for Suggestions that come in mind right now:
============

Example if you decide to interact with some SNES gaming communities: "Hey guys, Today's music sucks or w/e, we are having an full orchestra on an underrated gem!" 10/10 bait title, and it sadly works to gather attention.

Giving to known youtubers (mostly ones who have played chrono trigger, so they wont feel like you are spam-mailing them) 35~40$ pledges (without a cost, aka "for free") if they advertise your kickstarter seems a valid way to introduce yourself to them. For bloggers and streamers its harder, since it's hard to make promotions not look like shilling.

I guess, you could try contacting youtuber musicians with interesting deals? This is tricky and needs a lot of thought, but at first glance seems like a no-no, since it expands on the kickstarter itself (rewards/product)
An example would be like contacting any "known" musician who loves CT/CC (JohnyAtma comes to mind), and going like "As a stretch goal, X youtuber will cover Y tracks in his style (heavy metal in this example's case) and even if you don't reach the stretch goal, you will get marketting from that musician's audience. If you choose this, tread carefully 

Also, you could try making a personal video, on why you love Chrono (Cross) so much, and it would help people have more confidence in this kickstarter/project

Or even via kickstarter, a stream of you playing some chrono song? Doubtful this will work (I mean it's hard to get this wrong, but too much effort for too little exposure)
I mean, streaming is a science of its own haha so I wouldn't suggest it, except if you can somehow pull a Chrono Medley out of the blue, then cross-post it to reddit/youtube/your kickstarter or whatever

After all, 283 backers so far, but there are soooo many chrono fans (over 10k for sure) around the world! With just the right presentation, the nostalgia should be enough to pay for any "Chrono" content. 10$ to relive nostalgia? Damn, you could even use part of the product'sKickstarter's presentation as:
"Let's show the world how great the chrono franchise is!".
Because a common trait among chrono fans is this feeling of "this thing i love is ignored and not appreciated by everyone I know", which means that even those who dont like the music, will support this for the game's love or reputation, or supporting other fans!

And one more thing, have you looked into how many backers you have from japan? There are a lot of chrono fans from there, and you could somehow send messages over there for their publications and whatnot(google translate is actually good, ignore the memes)
After all, unlike mainstream publications they won't write you off instantly, because the story/kickstarter you can tell them, can sell a lot of views for them.
Example title of an article for them: "Chrono Trigger is not forgotten in the rest of the world" / "Chrono Trigger has such an impact on gaming that X symphony happens"
Though, the titles are purely fictional and I did extend this too much. Don't expect an answer from them (especially with such bait titles/articles to be made), but I guess japanese blogs or japanese youtubers can cover this. All in all, give this a try at least.

Having contacts/specific peoples = exposure = kickstarter funded, sure, but if I have to emphasize on the most important piece of information on the marketting I could share with you to help, "unorthodox" or not:
====================
It's not so much about contacting specific people but doing something worth covering, *by* specific people or places that makes the exposure happen.
====================

What else can I say? I guess, saying sending emails to everyone is not super useful and is easy, but coming up with a great "hook" marketting move outside of kickstarter to help the funding is hard, but it pays off? What I can definitely say is that if you don't see any results from sending emails to many people, try to re-think the marketting campaign from step 1, you still have time. Though, speaking of the mass emails, if not for tempting deals, trying to send emails to people to join the kickstarter sounds good in theory, but it's so slow tbh with many emails to get 1 pledge, and each email must be more or less hand-crafted, so...

That said, I just wish I could help more, but I doubt I can help otherwise. But like I said, you have ~20 days to think of a plan or something, and to gain trust/validity from some communities/people (see reddit and how some subreddits allow advertising if you post often) to ride that one-shot exposure wave via them.

9

General Discussion / Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...

« on: March 04, 2019, 06:28:05 pm »

Hello! It has been a while since I last posted, but I really wanted to drop feedback on the kickstarter, because I would like to see it succeed.

I didn't post it on this thread https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=12626.285 because this comment/reply can be easily misunderstood by random viewers, as negative/condescending, and it can damage the kickstarter

I am no marketting expert, but I am a game developer with some knowledge of marketting in videogames, and I just had to type this, seeing the kickstarter's trailer, which is the most important for anyone who stumbles on the kickstarter, because it's all about the First Impressions (I cannot emphasize the "First Impressions" part enough)

First of all, minor but still worth noting is the kickstarter page which has no thematic background on the top (random example I found, weirdly not many kickstarter pages do, but it is important https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2020043306/jupiter-hell-a-modern-turn-based-sci-fi-roguelike )

Aside of that, is the trailer. Before I get right to the point, you may have noticed that movie trailers nowadays, have a "mini-trailer" of 5~6 seconds right before the actual trailer with logos etc etc starts (example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XW1Ygatsz4 ) This also applies to game trailers ofc, since if it hasn't "hooked" the player in 5 seconds, it will either be skipped entirely (most common), or just skipped to later in the video (backed by huge data from Steam and Youtube)
That said, in the kickstarter's trailer, it starts really genericly (is that a word?), with a music I didn't recognize (I haven't played chrono cross, but even so, I have heard a most of CC OST, but it made me doubt this is one of them)

Now, since the kickstarter is about an orchestra(/film?), I expected it to start with some iconic chrono track, but "Remastered" to hook me, but I did not recognize any song until after you started explaining (which is veeeery long in the video, but this is what the kickstarter's funding product is essentially and to be presented so late is very very negative), whereas it should be on the start. Like, opening with "The Girl Who Stole The Stars" (used in 5:56, thats so deep into the video!) should be at the start of the video, if not the very beginning.

On the visuals, there is literally nothing interesting for 1 minute! which is just doing a disservice to the actual content you have planned! I apologize for being a little abrupt/rude but that opening of the trailer is what made me write this whole post, and it is really sad because I really want to see this kickstarter fulfilled, to make it happen!
For 1 whole minute (an average time for a full game trailer) logos and people that are unknown appear on the screen with the "what music is this" playing, and that earth on the background made me feel like i was watching some sci-fi trailer (and while "Earth" is relevant to the game with the iconic game over screen, sure it is relevant, but there are so many things that would serve a better goal being there)

That said, the kickstarter's launch has passed, and it hasn't snowballed, which is troublesome, and the general psychology/thoughts of those who end up on the kickstarter right now (aka the potential backers), will have doubts as to back the project, since they "predict" it will fail, and their money will be gone. In other words, since there isn't a "Funding Promise", some will not fund "yet" and wait for others, and others will wait for others, and hence, like a vicious cycle, only very few will risk such a thing.
And as I said before, I'm not saying this to offend you or anything, I really want it to be funded, and I'm glad someone has finally stepped up to do something like this.
Hence, my suggestion is this:
Think of unorthodox marketting ways, otherwise this project will slowly fade in time (apologies for the pun) Messagging people who aren't even related to the chrono brand in any way, even though most will ignore it, or even publications or other gaming forums, but this is a start of "unorthodox". Safest bets of "unorthodox" marketting is some bucks on reddit ads on certain subreddits (music or chrono subs) or contacting the guy who made the "Chrono Break" trailer? I think he is the artist/developer of Owlboy, but I'm not sure
Hopefully you will try out new stuff, because in the last days, a huge difference cannot be suddenly made

For the last thing related to the marketting/exposure above. Look at this https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/johnpaulhayward/cross-symphonic-a-20th-anniversary-symphonic-tribu-0/
There is a trend (dont trust them I say), but the estimated projection, assuming that the funding rate is approximately the same - whereas the funding rate in reality only decreases  - is ~45K$ which is a long way from funding. Hence, you need to somehow put fuel in the fire, to bring up exposure in some way, hence I mentioned "unorthodox marketting" above, literally any way that you can think of that can help in some way.(inb4 a ROMhack that advertises this game)

I apologize if I come off as rude in some parts above, but it just reminds me of so many failed kickstarters for promising games, and I don't want this to end up the same (so many hopes, then people outraged and asking for refunds, while trashing the project or kickstarter) where the developers were tortured from "What if" on their marketting campaigns and I honestly wish you the best and for this project to succeed! I did write so much feedback so as to help the kickstarter, even ignoring some programming tasks I had today (I did write this kind of late though, but at least the kickstarter is still active, and in its most important phase too, so don't consider it done yet, it can make a come-back!) In the end of the day, it's all about raising awareness to the point it snowballs itself and a fraction of it "cashes in", and for example, I still haven't heard of this kickstarter except of this place

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with kickstarter, nor have I kickstarted any game, but I am looking a lot into marketting for the past year, hence the above is just a stranger's tip from someone who loves Chrono Trigger (and Crimson Echoes) very very much

Note: I did some edits on the above, so my points are more clear and easier to read/understand because admittedly it still looks a bit chaotic to read

10

Site Updates / Re: The Chrono Compendium and Fandom in 2019

« on: December 06, 2018, 11:58:47 am »

Aug. 2007: The first Compendium Dream Splash begins. The theme was "Zeal". A really cool interactive preview for it can be found here. Entries for the first four Dream Splashes can be found here.

That link got me to read the entire Dream Splash haha. I also checked out every other link you provided, thanks!

It was funny seeing a lot of these, especially the 2007's interactive preview , and the april fool's joke, that cheesy+amateurish feeling of old forums got me nostalgic xD

I am looking forward to seeing the new competitions in 2019, 2018 (Dream of Zeal) having entries was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one given the chrono franchise status, so I am definitely interested in 2019's 

11

Site Updates / Re: The Chrono Compendium and Fandom in 2019

« on: December 05, 2018, 07:58:32 am »

Newbie here, I have to say these competitions seem interesting!

Is there an "About" page or something similar, to see details and results of the previous ones? 

12

Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy Dimensions II

« on: November 20, 2018, 05:44:13 pm »

No, truth be told I never did. Spent $15 and never played the game out of that initial session. I really, REALLY should get back on that. If nothing else so we can dissect, discuss, and compare to the Chrono series.

I'm just not much for mobile phone games and that whole battle-oriented format. I prefer the exploration element of jRPGs, which kills pretty much any interest in the later mobile jRPG market. I've tried games like Final Fantasy Record Keeper and Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, as well as Star Ocean Amnesis amongst others. They're all gacha games with no exploration, just battle after battle, which gets old.

I agree I can't stand these new "summon" type games, gets boring quickly. A friend at work turned me onto The World Ends with you (Mobile Port) in case you've never tried it, it has some exploration, not too much, but has a very unique battle system and game style that I thought was great.

Well, mobile games tend to have a horrible quality, even when ported. While I am very interested on the story, I just cannot stand to even watch a walkthrough, although I may give it a try one day. But even story-wise, many cutscenes contain so much filler from what I saw 

((also I have heard good stuff on The World Ends With You))

13

Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy Dimensions II

« on: November 20, 2018, 04:36:38 am »

Did you continue the playthrough? The only good/extensive information on this game is via playthroughs, and they are lengthy and boring  I am really interested in the story though, because there are so many elements that are more or less obviously originated from the Chrono sequel (from Takashi Tokita's proposed Chrono Break)

When you realize the Chrono Sequel story is converted in a mobile game, we truly live in the darkest timeline

Schala being crystallized, Aemo hints that she would originally be from a "doomed timeline" like 2300 AD in CT, making a unique early game in comparison to CT's slow one. There must be more "links" that can eventually be compiled to realize what the approximate story was for the sequel, I think

14

Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Thanks for Crimson Echoes.

« on: November 20, 2018, 03:19:19 am »

I still need to play CE.  I started it a few years back, and lost interest fairly quick.  I wasn't in the right mood for it, but it's still on my bucket list.  I'm also pretty interested in this new romhack!

Well, different tastes, but I had really low expectations being a romhack, but I was surprised to say the least. I have to admit I did put cheats for levelling, because defeat was often and I hate savescumming, but regardless I did enjoy it from start to end. Although, there are many flaws, but that is to be expected from the lack of time/budget - the nature of every romhack/mod haha

If you do try it out, I hope you enjoy it, for me, it did re-spark that CT feel 

Glad to have you aboard. Please come by as often as you can. There's still a lot going on as Boo mentioned. Feel free to add your opinions and thoughts on anything around here; it's always nice to see a fresh perspective on things.

It is amazing that romhacks are still being developed, although with the whole schala rom mentioned above, I think it's interesting since it's more of a "remaster"/deluxe edition xD I wouldn't play CT again because I have so many games im dying to play before that (Chrono Cross, Xenoblade 1, Xenogears etc etc) but it's interesting to think about. A "definitive" edition to get introduced, that will cover every loose end, instead of current CT. I really wonder what my opinions would be if in my very first playthrough I saved Schala 

Regardless, when I find time, I will post some heavy topics I have in mind (sadly, I'm late to the party but it's nice that there are other active fans and more knowledgeable than me), since this is more of a discussion/analysis site, and I love deconstruction (so many threads to read before that too~ )

15

Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Thanks for Crimson Echoes.

« on: November 18, 2018, 09:52:08 pm »

Do you mean a big chrono romhack like CE? If so, where can I find more details on it?

Well, it's not a new story, if that's what you mean. Some of us are beta testing a mod that adds in playable Schala with new story content after the Ocean Palace. There are some minor additions up to that point, but that's where the big changes come into play.

Sounds interesting, mostly the story content after the Ocean Palace

Well, I will have it in mind although I honestly doubt any romhack can compare with Crimson Echoes (although, no need for comparison since any new good chrono romhack is something to play) and I sadly don't have much time to play (I have prophet's guille on my sights even before CE)

Looking forward to it when it does release though! I'm just so glad Chrono is still going