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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Another topic on lots of dimensions/timelines
« on: June 30, 2006, 01:12:56 pm »
Alas you all could of said this already, but its so hard to find what your looking for with the search engine.. so!
Playing CT, and reading everything on Time Error and Lavos's pocket dimension and whatnot, i got confused!
In the ocean palace disaster, Lavos seems fully matured, at a state like when you defeat it, but did Lavos not come to earth as an infant, or Lavos Spawn, correct me if im wrong there because that will probably put all this to rest.
If Lavos's pocket dimension runs on a timeline parrallel to the planets, then surely there must be a timeline for the planet for every second or millisecond (or something of the like) that Lavos is sucking out the planets enegy's.
For example when lavos first arrives on the Earth surely Zeal will not of noticed the large powers of Lavos and it would not have said large powers, and as such would never bother making the mammon machine and the entire Ocean Palace scenario would of been averted, as would the apocolypse, hell the planet would likely be completely diferent.
When Lavos gets enough power for the Zealians to realise, they start up with the mammon machine and ocean palace scenario, although depending on how much power Lavos actaully has at this stage it may not be able to defeat the Zealians, though this seems incredibly unlikely as it would definetly of stopped the Zealians stealing his power or he would of never got to the stage you see him in playing CT (Heh, just realised i keep swapping between it and he when refering to Lavos, apologies).
And one final sidenote, after Crono and crew defeat Lavos, and Belthesar does all his work in time travel and Chronopolis, etc. Why doesnt he try going back in time to when Lavos was landing, as he presumably was in 'Planet Time' during this, and try stopping Lavos from landing or burrowing, i admit it may be hard.. But surely he could time travel far to the future or something and get the technology required for this. If they did so, would it not completely avert the entire events of CT, CC, and RD.
Playing CT, and reading everything on Time Error and Lavos's pocket dimension and whatnot, i got confused!
In the ocean palace disaster, Lavos seems fully matured, at a state like when you defeat it, but did Lavos not come to earth as an infant, or Lavos Spawn, correct me if im wrong there because that will probably put all this to rest.
If Lavos's pocket dimension runs on a timeline parrallel to the planets, then surely there must be a timeline for the planet for every second or millisecond (or something of the like) that Lavos is sucking out the planets enegy's.
For example when lavos first arrives on the Earth surely Zeal will not of noticed the large powers of Lavos and it would not have said large powers, and as such would never bother making the mammon machine and the entire Ocean Palace scenario would of been averted, as would the apocolypse, hell the planet would likely be completely diferent.
When Lavos gets enough power for the Zealians to realise, they start up with the mammon machine and ocean palace scenario, although depending on how much power Lavos actaully has at this stage it may not be able to defeat the Zealians, though this seems incredibly unlikely as it would definetly of stopped the Zealians stealing his power or he would of never got to the stage you see him in playing CT (Heh, just realised i keep swapping between it and he when refering to Lavos, apologies).
And one final sidenote, after Crono and crew defeat Lavos, and Belthesar does all his work in time travel and Chronopolis, etc. Why doesnt he try going back in time to when Lavos was landing, as he presumably was in 'Planet Time' during this, and try stopping Lavos from landing or burrowing, i admit it may be hard.. But surely he could time travel far to the future or something and get the technology required for this. If they did so, would it not completely avert the entire events of CT, CC, and RD.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / pendragon sigils
« on: August 06, 2005, 09:19:53 am »
can someone tell me what these actaully do? ive searched the internet but everything i find is just the same as the description in-game which has me totally confused, what do they do?
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General Discussion / words with alternative meanings
« on: August 04, 2005, 05:25:27 pm »
ive been thinking, with all the times people have said, aah this word means something wholly diferent in this here langauge.
so how about making a thread with all the words that have alternative meanings, what you think? dont tell me youve already done it, and dont say youve done it in the middle of a hijacked thread
.
for starters we have the meanings of masa, mune and doreen which i dare not elaborate because ill get it wrong.
then ive heard the word chrono means time, so if anyone has any meanings of cross or trigger that has a small chance of being entertaining/enlightening.
on another post there was something about the BoT being called thule something or other, shouldnt be too hard to go find out where that was, anyway what you guys think?
so how about making a thread with all the words that have alternative meanings, what you think? dont tell me youve already done it, and dont say youve done it in the middle of a hijacked thread
.for starters we have the meanings of masa, mune and doreen which i dare not elaborate because ill get it wrong.
then ive heard the word chrono means time, so if anyone has any meanings of cross or trigger that has a small chance of being entertaining/enlightening.
on another post there was something about the BoT being called thule something or other, shouldnt be too hard to go find out where that was, anyway what you guys think?
4
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / each time gate
« on: August 01, 2005, 05:11:29 am »
has anyone made an article/topic entailing the details of why we think each time gate exists?
if not it could be interesting going through each gate and giving a reason for its existence, some are obvious (or you would think so at first) like the 12000BC being when lavos woke up.
if not it could be interesting going through each gate and giving a reason for its existence, some are obvious (or you would think so at first) like the 12000BC being when lavos woke up.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / belthesar's book in kajar
« on: July 30, 2005, 08:39:21 am »
i think it was in kajar, the one that says all like starts in nu and ends in nu.
i read that article you made about this, and you were saying how nu could be representable as water, then i read a line from CC (just got working) at the start someone fishing says something along the lines of:
all life started in the ocean and will end in it
that kinda co-incides with the nu topic, and i didnt see you notice it.
i read that article you made about this, and you were saying how nu could be representable as water, then i read a line from CC (just got working) at the start someone fishing says something along the lines of:
all life started in the ocean and will end in it
that kinda co-incides with the nu topic, and i didnt see you notice it.
6
Time, Space, and Dimensions / just a thought
« on: July 29, 2005, 06:34:54 am »
forgive me if someone else has already put forward the notion i am about to, or if you have disproved it already, ive read through most of the articles but not much on this forum. having no experience of chrono cross or radical dreamers this is purely based on CT
there a few points i have, some more important than others :
1) marle's pendant -
why does it react to lucca's machine? presumable because the entity made it, but any further interpretations on this are welcome.
where did she get it from? it has been passed down from generation and looks like schala's so you presume they are one and the same, so marle is schala's decendant? if any can confirm these facts please do, for this creates the same paradox as the queene leene event at the start of the game, during the ocean palace disaster where schala disapears (to be fused with lavos) - which presumably does not happen unless crono interferes - surely this would mean schala has no children, marle does not exist, yet she never disapears. so can someone please clear this up for me, thanks in advance.
2) the wormholes idea of time -
you mentioned before how the wormholes and epoch never take you to the exact time they did the first time you use them, after going through the portal to 600ad, the next time you come all the events that took place while you were there are still existent. i didnt really understand what you were talking about when you cleared it up, but this is my theory - since the ocean palace disaster when janus and the sages were ported to diferent era's of time, this would appear to be when the portals where created, i know you say the entity did this and that could also be used in this theory just in a diferent way but bear with me, the portals where the people are taken are in the same place as where the portals you go through take you, so my idea is that during the ocean palace disaster lavos may have gone out of control and made these time gates (we know lavos has some form of control over time). now we take janus's case, when he goes through the gate he is a child, when crono and co go through the gate he is an adult, so universal time has passed since the ocean palace disaster. we have no idea how much universal time passed so we cannot prove that this time represents anything, my guess is that universal time is simaliar to the time in the lavos's pocket dimension, which goes with the theory the portals where opened by lavos, so therefore the time you arrive at when you go through a portal or use epoch is the designated time of the portal + universal time.
if you are sticking with the theory the time gates were created by the entity, then you could instead call these era's in time the time gates link to, memories of the entity, the era's of time the entity remembers most well and so these era's are the most powerful era's, when the ocean palace disaster occurs, i remain with my idea lavos went slightly out of control or something along these lines he used whatever powers of time he has and sent the people to these era's as they are the easiest places for this to occur, or he just opened a gate, the guru's and janus got sent through, and they were pulled to the times they were as if these times are magnets pulling matter out of the dimension you get sent to when you go through a gate (you must all now the eery visual effects when you jump through a gate, lets call that a dimension). okay tell me what you think about that.
3) time in the end of time -
the end of time i believe to be like lavos's pocket dimension, a dimension out of the universe if you will for i dont really know how to explain it, in fact lets say these are the same dimension, just diferent areas of it, now this is farfechted but the dimensions in which crono and co, serge, and all these dimensions you find out about in CC are inside this larger dimension of which lavos and the EoT inhabit, now lets say each dimension has its own "time", the larger dimensions "time" would be my idea of "universal time" that affects all other dimensions, while the time inside the dimensions (ill take the one from CT as an example) is the time like that of which crono travels, the reason time steadily goes on even when he is time traveling is because of the larger dimensions universal time.
4) exploring this theory -
now this probably contradicts a lot of CT and CC, so needs further exploration. lavos is part of the larger dimension, i will call this dimension X from now on, and crono's dimension Y, so keep up. getting more farfetched, lavos and the EoT probably among other things just exist in dimension X, going through time (we know for sure that EoT does sucumb to time by what belthesar says, he mentions how many poeple have been stumbling into the end of time recently - this in itself could provide many questions if would delve deep enough, but it would be more or less pointless as none of it could be proven in the slightest - now if time did not pass in the EoT everyone who ever went there would be there at the exact same time, and they are not). Knowing how belthesar knows everything that happens in crono's world, we would say that time in the other dimensions is much like a video for beings outside of that dimension to watch, rewind, and fastforward. lavos would be able to go from dimension X to any dimension, he chooses Y, he burrows deep into the core of a planet in Y and creates a pocket dimension - this would be like eating away part of dimension Y so just X remains, from dimension X he can watch every occurance in time on that planet, and choose the best time for him to come of his pocket dimension, into dimention Y and absorb their DNA or whatever he does (for reference i believe that this is the only way for lavos to leave his pocket dimension in dimension Y and return to the expanse of dimension X).
a contradiction to lavos's pocket dimension sucumbing to only universal time would be the fact that if you destroy his shell, it is still there in 12000ad during the ocean palace disaster, this would assume what happens in the ocean palace disaster actaully happened before you destroyed his shell, if you have destroyed his shell before this, it would mean u destroyed his shell during the 1999ad apocalypse, becuase the only times u fight lavos are either at the start of the game (right teleport), the ocean palace or in 1999ad, beating him either time except the latter results in the special ending, and is near impossible unless you are playing a + game, this leads to the general fact that crono NEVER defeats lavos outside of 1999ad, as there is no ending for a result other than this, we know the 1999ad event would be the time when lavos was ready to come out of his dimension and devour the world, so this would be late in universal time, while the ocean palace disaster could be at any time before this occured. one solution to this is that because the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y it is affected by the time of dimension Y, i would say that time travel is only possible if you are in a dimension outside of the one you originated from, EoT, the area you pass through form gate to gate namely dimension X, the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y so lavos cannot travel time inside it, he merely watches time waiting for the right moment, and sometimes intervenes, the ocean palace disaster, of which i will discuss later.
5) lavos's intentions- queen zeal states he is sucking the energy out of the planet, what she means i dont know, i merely know he is evolving humans so that he can merge his dna with theirs, does anyone know for sure why? poeple claim its for food, but how would mergind dna be sustanance, one thing we do know is what happened to lavos when he merged with schala, TD, so did he see this planet in this dimension and see the life-forms which at the time would be lizardmen, but he also saw the humans that once existed, was he interested in the humans, and so he came there, destroyed the lizardmen - by accident or not? - and then started forcing human evolution into a way that will eventaully lead to him evolving himself into an even greater being. now if lavos is using the essence of the planet as sustanance that would be what queen zeal is talking about, maybe he is using the planet as sustanance to continue his efforts of procuring dna to improve himself with.
6) the ocean palace disaster -
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out, the zealians discovered immensive power coming from inside the earth somewhere, they began extracting this energy and using it for their magics, this was lavos's energy which he used to remain alive if you will, for without this energy you would assume he could not open portals or create pocket dimensions, or sustain his life at all. when he noticed his energy being drained, he somehow used the energy the zealians were using to control them, he controlled the queen as it is likely she wanted immense power, lavos just took this ambition and amplified it in her to drive her insane and under lavos's will, he used her to awaken himself so that he could destroy the zealians before they used too much energy, and before they became too powerful to stop him, he then retreated back into the earth to continue his work.
okay my head is hurting now and im forgetting lots of things so ill take a break, please post back on what you think on some of these ideas please, anything is welcome.
there a few points i have, some more important than others :
1) marle's pendant -
why does it react to lucca's machine? presumable because the entity made it, but any further interpretations on this are welcome.
where did she get it from? it has been passed down from generation and looks like schala's so you presume they are one and the same, so marle is schala's decendant? if any can confirm these facts please do, for this creates the same paradox as the queene leene event at the start of the game, during the ocean palace disaster where schala disapears (to be fused with lavos) - which presumably does not happen unless crono interferes - surely this would mean schala has no children, marle does not exist, yet she never disapears. so can someone please clear this up for me, thanks in advance.
2) the wormholes idea of time -
you mentioned before how the wormholes and epoch never take you to the exact time they did the first time you use them, after going through the portal to 600ad, the next time you come all the events that took place while you were there are still existent. i didnt really understand what you were talking about when you cleared it up, but this is my theory - since the ocean palace disaster when janus and the sages were ported to diferent era's of time, this would appear to be when the portals where created, i know you say the entity did this and that could also be used in this theory just in a diferent way but bear with me, the portals where the people are taken are in the same place as where the portals you go through take you, so my idea is that during the ocean palace disaster lavos may have gone out of control and made these time gates (we know lavos has some form of control over time). now we take janus's case, when he goes through the gate he is a child, when crono and co go through the gate he is an adult, so universal time has passed since the ocean palace disaster. we have no idea how much universal time passed so we cannot prove that this time represents anything, my guess is that universal time is simaliar to the time in the lavos's pocket dimension, which goes with the theory the portals where opened by lavos, so therefore the time you arrive at when you go through a portal or use epoch is the designated time of the portal + universal time.
if you are sticking with the theory the time gates were created by the entity, then you could instead call these era's in time the time gates link to, memories of the entity, the era's of time the entity remembers most well and so these era's are the most powerful era's, when the ocean palace disaster occurs, i remain with my idea lavos went slightly out of control or something along these lines he used whatever powers of time he has and sent the people to these era's as they are the easiest places for this to occur, or he just opened a gate, the guru's and janus got sent through, and they were pulled to the times they were as if these times are magnets pulling matter out of the dimension you get sent to when you go through a gate (you must all now the eery visual effects when you jump through a gate, lets call that a dimension). okay tell me what you think about that.
3) time in the end of time -
the end of time i believe to be like lavos's pocket dimension, a dimension out of the universe if you will for i dont really know how to explain it, in fact lets say these are the same dimension, just diferent areas of it, now this is farfechted but the dimensions in which crono and co, serge, and all these dimensions you find out about in CC are inside this larger dimension of which lavos and the EoT inhabit, now lets say each dimension has its own "time", the larger dimensions "time" would be my idea of "universal time" that affects all other dimensions, while the time inside the dimensions (ill take the one from CT as an example) is the time like that of which crono travels, the reason time steadily goes on even when he is time traveling is because of the larger dimensions universal time.
4) exploring this theory -
now this probably contradicts a lot of CT and CC, so needs further exploration. lavos is part of the larger dimension, i will call this dimension X from now on, and crono's dimension Y, so keep up. getting more farfetched, lavos and the EoT probably among other things just exist in dimension X, going through time (we know for sure that EoT does sucumb to time by what belthesar says, he mentions how many poeple have been stumbling into the end of time recently - this in itself could provide many questions if would delve deep enough, but it would be more or less pointless as none of it could be proven in the slightest - now if time did not pass in the EoT everyone who ever went there would be there at the exact same time, and they are not). Knowing how belthesar knows everything that happens in crono's world, we would say that time in the other dimensions is much like a video for beings outside of that dimension to watch, rewind, and fastforward. lavos would be able to go from dimension X to any dimension, he chooses Y, he burrows deep into the core of a planet in Y and creates a pocket dimension - this would be like eating away part of dimension Y so just X remains, from dimension X he can watch every occurance in time on that planet, and choose the best time for him to come of his pocket dimension, into dimention Y and absorb their DNA or whatever he does (for reference i believe that this is the only way for lavos to leave his pocket dimension in dimension Y and return to the expanse of dimension X).
a contradiction to lavos's pocket dimension sucumbing to only universal time would be the fact that if you destroy his shell, it is still there in 12000ad during the ocean palace disaster, this would assume what happens in the ocean palace disaster actaully happened before you destroyed his shell, if you have destroyed his shell before this, it would mean u destroyed his shell during the 1999ad apocalypse, becuase the only times u fight lavos are either at the start of the game (right teleport), the ocean palace or in 1999ad, beating him either time except the latter results in the special ending, and is near impossible unless you are playing a + game, this leads to the general fact that crono NEVER defeats lavos outside of 1999ad, as there is no ending for a result other than this, we know the 1999ad event would be the time when lavos was ready to come out of his dimension and devour the world, so this would be late in universal time, while the ocean palace disaster could be at any time before this occured. one solution to this is that because the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y it is affected by the time of dimension Y, i would say that time travel is only possible if you are in a dimension outside of the one you originated from, EoT, the area you pass through form gate to gate namely dimension X, the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y so lavos cannot travel time inside it, he merely watches time waiting for the right moment, and sometimes intervenes, the ocean palace disaster, of which i will discuss later.
5) lavos's intentions- queen zeal states he is sucking the energy out of the planet, what she means i dont know, i merely know he is evolving humans so that he can merge his dna with theirs, does anyone know for sure why? poeple claim its for food, but how would mergind dna be sustanance, one thing we do know is what happened to lavos when he merged with schala, TD, so did he see this planet in this dimension and see the life-forms which at the time would be lizardmen, but he also saw the humans that once existed, was he interested in the humans, and so he came there, destroyed the lizardmen - by accident or not? - and then started forcing human evolution into a way that will eventaully lead to him evolving himself into an even greater being. now if lavos is using the essence of the planet as sustanance that would be what queen zeal is talking about, maybe he is using the planet as sustanance to continue his efforts of procuring dna to improve himself with.
6) the ocean palace disaster -
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out, the zealians discovered immensive power coming from inside the earth somewhere, they began extracting this energy and using it for their magics, this was lavos's energy which he used to remain alive if you will, for without this energy you would assume he could not open portals or create pocket dimensions, or sustain his life at all. when he noticed his energy being drained, he somehow used the energy the zealians were using to control them, he controlled the queen as it is likely she wanted immense power, lavos just took this ambition and amplified it in her to drive her insane and under lavos's will, he used her to awaken himself so that he could destroy the zealians before they used too much energy, and before they became too powerful to stop him, he then retreated back into the earth to continue his work.
okay my head is hurting now and im forgetting lots of things so ill take a break, please post back on what you think on some of these ideas please, anything is welcome.
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