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General Discussion / Galactica Series Finale?

« on: March 24, 2009, 03:52:48 pm »

*******WARNING!!! NERD SPOILERS AHEAD*******


So I just now watched the series finale for Battlestar Galactica. I've heard a lot of people complaining about it, and although it did disappoint me - it didn't disappoint me nearly as much as it did others. For one of the best sci-fi shows I've ever seen, and definitely one of the best dramas on television right now, I thought the finale was somewhat disappointing. Actually I thought that the entire last season was haphazardly thrown together in an attempt to tie up miscellaneous plots and loose ends. The first couple episodes of this last season were horribly anticlimactic. It sped up greatly during the mutiny plot but then trailed off again.

I suppose one of my main complaints with the final episode would be that politics played such a huge role in the series, with a prevailing theme being the differences between the colonial ships and the political climate of the fleet. But then once they find Earth II or whatever they just abandon all of their technology and their entire fleet to live like cavemen upon the decision of the two Adamas? Really? No one in the 30,000 some odd survivors stood up and said "screw you man, I like technology?". Granted, it was technology that completely screwed them over and nearly caused their extinction, but you'd think there would be a bit of political discontent involving that decision right?

And the Kara Thrace thing, that irritated the fuck out of me. They built it up so much during the last two seasons. Who the hell is Kara Thrace? Is she a cylon or not? How did she return from the dead? Why did her father teach her the cylon song as a child? Despite the heavy religious theme throughout the series, I really did not think they would boil it down to "Kara's an angel, God dunnit yuh-huh". Especially not after Gaius Baltar's crazy ass told her he thought she was. Then, as if it was a giant "uhhh.....we really don't know how to wrap this story up" she just straight up disappears mid-sentence while talking to Lee Adama? And Lee is not at all shocked by this, and just goes "Oh well I guess she was an angel after all that's pretty fucked up yuh-huh". God works in mysteeeerious ways.

That said I did think it was pretty cool in the final episode how all the religious prophecy came together and the cylon song was the coordinates that led to the new earth. And the battle scenes were pretty kickass too. Hugely entertaining.

But I think it would have been better had they spent a couple more episodes tying up loose ends instead of killing off the less-important characters one by one. After they found Earth for the first time it just began to seriously lag. Granted, it makes sense that everyone would have been all "uhh...wtf do we do now?" but it really felt as if they were stretching for new plot instead of tying up old ones.

But who knows, maybe I'm just a little biased. What did everyone else think?

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General Discussion / So who Watched the Watchmen?

« on: March 09, 2009, 04:27:28 pm »

What did you think?

It followed the original graphic novel pretty well, and it was visually stunning and entertaining. The movie seemed somewhat cramped with trying to fit everyone's backstories into a 3 hour span, but it didn't suffer from pacing problems too bad. All things considered, I think they did a really, really good job with it. It felt like it brought the comic to life and it was adapted better than any other superhero movie that I can think of.

My only complaint with it is that they flash Doctor Manhattan's glowy blue dick a few too many times. After awhile it becomes a little too comical. I heard people crack jokes like "well at least he never needs a flashlight". Yeah, we get it, his consciousness has ascended beyond the need for clothes. But it is still funny.

All in all I'd give it two thumbs up. If not for the length, I would go see it again.

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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Dimensional Travellers Immunity and Dimensional Bastard

« on: January 20, 2009, 09:24:41 pm »

OK, so in the "Time Devourer's Defeat Undoes the Fall of Guardia and Lucca's Death" thread Eske and I wrote out several proofs of what we dubbed Dimensional Traveller's Immunity and Dimensional Bastard. The full thread can be found here:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,6571.0.html

But because it is an enormous discussion that took several tangents I thought I would make a separate thread that concisely outlines what we were talking about so that people can discuss/criticize it without having to wade through four pages of posts - most of which are nearly short story length in and of themselves.

The main idea was: Are events of dimensional travel preserved in the timeline as are events of time travel? The Compendium leaves this question completely wide open in their "Chrono Cross Resolutions" article and it assumes that dimensional travelling events are preserved without ever attempting to prove it. So how would one go about proving it?

Well, one of the major reasons that TTI/TB needs to exist is to prevent paradoxes and duplicates from occurring even with simple instances of time travel. So to prove the necessity of DTI/DB, one would have to outline a legitimate scenario in which a paradox or duplications would occur if DTI or DB did not exist. We have done this below. Note that dimensional travel in and of itself is not inherently paradoxical - problems only arise when dimensional travel is also associated with some sort of time travel.

Dimensional Travellers Immunity Scenario (paradox arises):

Professor A invents a Time Travel "gate key" and can open time gates anywhere.
Then, 10 minutes later, he invents a machine that creates a Dimensional Vortex that exists in all time periods (like CTDS) and is fixed in place, and can only exist if the machine is operational.
Professor A can lay time gates perfectly on top of the Dimensional Vortex to use both simultaneously.
Professor A indeed uses his devices simultaneously, immediately after both are invented.

From Dimension 1, Time X,   Professor A travels to  Dimension 2, Time X-10.
There, he tells a resident, Person B, to traverse dimensions  to Dimension 1 and kill Professor A before all means of extra/other spatial travel were invented.   

Person B at D2: Time X-10 travels  to     D1: Time X-10 and kills Professor A just seconds after Time Travel is invented.  Dimensional Travel is never invented.

Now lets add  "1" to Time Error and play this through again.

A (time) gate will open in Time X-10 no matter what.   But where?     Time portals will always open no matter what because of TTI.   Which means Professor A (who, by TTI, will always remember inventing dimensional travel as well) will appear 10 minutes into the past, meet the counterpart of Person B and tell him to cross dimensions to kill Professor A.  Professor A will be shocked to see that the dimensional vortex no longer exists.   (If the machine is rendered inoperable, the vortex ceases to exist in all time periods.  like how the CTDS  portals only exist in all time periods for Time Error Y+1 after they are created at Time Error Y.)

That means that no version of Person B crosses dimensions (NOT time) to kill Professor A.  If DTI did not exist  this would create a loop because if Person B can't kill Professor A, then dimensional travel will exist --  but then Person B would now be able to kill Professor A, negating the existence of dimensional travel - and so on.

Dimensional Bastard Scenario (duplication arises):

Two dimensions exist which are parallel to each other in time. In Dimension 1 a man called Dimensional Traveler exists in the timeline. In Dimension 2 he was never born. A person called Time Traveller was born in Dimension 2 and may or may not exist in Dimension 1 (doesn't matter).

Dimension 1: Time X: Dimensional Traveller goes to dimension 2 via some dimensional gate.

Dimension 2: Time X: Dimensional Traveller appears in dimension 2. Time Traveller meets Dimensional Traveller, decides he is an asshole, and travels first to Dimension 1 with the intent of going back in time to kill his grandfather so he never exists.

Dimension 1: Time X+1: Time Traveller arrives in dimension 1, goes back in time to X-100.

Dimension 1: Time X-100: Time Traveller kills Dimensional Travellers grandfather, changing history in Dimension 1 so that Dimensional Traveller never crosses the dimensions to Dimension 2, then travels back to the present in Dimension 1 and goes back to his home dimension of Dimension 2 at Time X+2.

Dimension 2: Time X+2: Time Traveller returns to his home dimension anticipating that Dimensional Traveller wouldn't be there. Does he meet Dimensional Traveller, or not?

Quite a thinker, eh?

In this situation, the act of Time Traveller killing Dimensional Travellers grandfather in Dimension 1 is preserved via TTI. The act of Time Traveller reappearing in the future of Dimension 1 is likewise preserved via TTI. But is the act of crossing the dimensions preserved by DTI/DB? This situation actually doesn't prove whether or not Dimensional Traveller will be there when Time Traveller returns, but lets analyze what would happen if Time Traveller did not disappear at the original instance of his dimensional crossing (ie: if Dimensional Bastard does not exist):

At Time X Time Traveller would not vanish. At Time X+2 this Time Traveller would meet his future self arriving from his journey to kill Dimensional Bastards' grandfather. There would be a problem of duplicates. Therefore Dimensional Bastard must necessarily exist to eliminate duplicates from the timeline.

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General Discussion / The Dream Discussion and Analysis Thread

« on: January 11, 2009, 05:21:22 am »

Sorry if there is another thread like this somewhere on the Compendium, I looked but I couldn't find one.

So, if you are like me then you usually dream every night and remember them vividly upon waking up but forget them shortly thereafter. I've often wondered what some of the imagery in my dreams mean, and so I thought I would create this thread for people to report their dreams before they forget and analyze them if they wish.

So, here's one of mine that I remember from awhile ago to start it off:

I was walking my dog and for some reason decided to go to a movie. Both my dog and I went into the theater and sat down and watched some random movie, and then I noticed that one of my ex-girlfriends and a bunch of my friends were in the same theater. So after the movie me, my ex, my friends, and my dog tagging along all decided to go hang out together. We went into the parking lot and my ex says that she needs to get something out of the trunk of her car. She opens the trunk and fireworks shoot out of it. We all sit and enjoyed the firework show shooting out of the trunk of her car for awhile before saying our goodbyes - then I awoke.

Analysis: A very strange dream. I have no idea what it means except for a few parts. I assume my dog was in it because I love my dog. As far as the movie theater with my ex and friends in - movies are an activity that you go to with friends/girlfriends, so it makes sense in a subconscious way that they would be there. My ex's birthday is July 1st, which is very close to July 4th, so I'm assuming that's where the fireworks imagery came from. And why did it come out of the trunk of her car? Well...I have no idea. 

So let's hear some strange dreams you guys have had recently and what you think they might mean. Are they your subconscious mind trying to work out problems that you couldn't work out in waking life? Are your dreams telling you something that you need to do? Or are they just random gibberish that are interesting in retrospect? Ever had a lucid dream? Strange/amusing sex dreams? Dreams where you are being chased by someone? Let's hear it!

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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Is dimensional travel a prerequisite to reach the DBT?

« on: January 08, 2009, 03:21:55 am »

So, this thread is going to be rather simple and straightforward compared to the epic discussions that we have been having on this board recently. 

I pose a simple question: "Is dimensional travel a prerequisite for an individual to travel to the Darkness Beyond Time?"

I originally asked this question in FaustWolf's thread about what causes a gate to the DBT to appear, but that discussion seems to have died.

Here is some evidence in favor of this being true:

In both Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger DS, the characters travel across dimensions before they are allowed to go to the Darkness Beyond Time. In Chrono Cross the gate to the Darkness Beyond Time appears after Serge acquires the Time Egg from Belthesar (but presumably it could have been there all along and he just couldn't access it). In CTDS the Gate to the DBT and the Dream Devourer appears after the party travels through the Dimensional Vortexes.

Some evidence that is potentially contrary to this idea:

Schala goes directly to the DBT to merge with Lavos and become the Dream Devourer in Chrono Trigger. Was this a special case? I see no reason why it would be.


If dimensional travel is required before an individual can travel to the DBT, then this has some rather important plot implications for Chrono Cross:

Often the question is brought up - "So why did Belthesar have to split the dimensions in his grand-master plan to defeat the Time Devourer? What was the point of it all?".

Well, if an individual needs to traverse a dimension before he can travel to the Darkness Beyond Time, then the dimensional split was a necessary part of Belthesar's plan to defeat the Time Devourer. In other words, if this is true, then the Time Devourer could not be defeated if the dimensions were not split. Serge was a necessary part of the plan from the start because in the original timeline before the split he made contact with the Frozen Flame, became the Arbiter, and then died. By splitting the dimensions and allowing Serge to live and cross the dimensions at a future date, a chain of events was set in place that could lead to the defeat of the Time Devourer.

So if dimensional travel is a prerequisite for travel to the DBT, then this suggests that the Time Devourer could be defeated in no other way and Belthesar's plan was 100% relevant from the start.

Discuss!

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General Discussion / On the spiritual uses of mind altering substances

« on: December 26, 2008, 04:48:25 pm »

• I was a very zealous Christian up until around age 18-19 when my ongoing spiritual journey reached an extreme crisis of faith that soon lead to a near-total spiritual and mental breakdown

Interesting. People's religious faith fascinates me. I am a man of science (I have a degree in science) and stereotypically I have always had an extreme aversion to religion. Ever since I was a child. But then one day I had the incredible fortune to be able to participate in using a certain native american religious sacrament (my girlfriend is mexican native american) in a spiritual ceremony. Let's just say I learned to think about things a little bit differently after that.

Anyways, welcome!

EDIT: For anyone confused about the nature of the first post to this thread, it was actually moved here from another thread so that one wouldn't get too far off topic.

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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Time Bastard not needed to account for Serge's memories.

« on: December 03, 2008, 09:18:13 pm »

I faced a dilemma of whether to put this in "Plot/characters" for the plot aspect of this post, "Artifacts" because of the Chrono Cross, or "Time, Space and Dimensions" because of it's implications for Cross's ending, but I decided to post it here.

I recently played through Chrono Trigger and Cross back to back as they are two of my favorite RPG's and I hoped to elucidate more of their intricate plots. Well I noticed something in the script of Cross that may have relevance to the ending that was not mentioned in the Compendium's "Chrono Cross Resolution" article. So here it goes:


After talking with Belthesar in the Viper Manor illusion in Terra Tower, the Crono apparition says a bunch of stuff about the Chrono Cross, elucidating it's function in unifying dimensions, including the following:

   

   Crono:

   It has the power to cross
   space and time and unify
   people's thoughts and feelings...

   It has the power to
   transfer memories...

So, my interpretation of the ending of Cross is like so:

When Schala/Kid is referring to everyone "forgetting their memories of the journey", she is most likely referring to the fact that time will "restart" from the point of the split in 1010 A.D. and they will not remember their adventure at first (but perhaps will eventually). This is further supported by the party members with Serge at the Darkness Beyond Time talking about things they will do in the future. However, unlike the Compendium's analysis, I propose that complicated Time Bastard scenario's are not needed to explain why Serge retains his memories at the end of the story.

I propose that the Chrono Cross literally has the ability to transfer memories, akin to the ability of the Dragon Tear before it to transfer the consciousness (and memories) of one individual into another's body. At the end of the game, Serge remembers all details of his adventure because of this abililty of the Chrono Cross, and nothing more. The memories of Serge from the DBT were transferred into the Serge at Opassa Beach. Or perhaps their consciousnesses were actually fused together to make one, as is also implied by the above quote.

It's likely that Schala/Kid's memories were also transferred into the Kid present on the mainland in this new Ideal Timeline. After that she would probably seek out Serge in El Nido, which may explain the white dress in another cutscene - she has regained memories both of the previous adventure and of her life as Schala.


My hypothesis that Time Bastard is not needed to explain Serge's memory of the journey further simplifies complications with the so-called "Ideal Timeline", which makes it especially attractive as a possibility. When the two dimensions are merged, presumably history restarts from the original point of the split, with the history of both dimensions going to the DBT in favor of a new timeline beginning. But, how does one account for all the instances of TB/TTI and time travel that occur in each separate timeline after the split? You run into many, many problems when trying to account for them. For example, if one character time travelled in one dimension, but his counter-part in the other did not - in the Ideal Timeline is the character Time Bastarded out, or not?

So I propose that in the Ideal Timeline, all instances of TB/TTI are preserved in the timeline before the split in 1010 A.D., but all instances of TB/TTI that occurred specific to each dimension are not preserved after the original time of the split in 1010 A.D.

This is the simplest explanation for the creation of an Ideal Timeline, because events would proceed as follows:

- All story-related events up until the split would be subject to TB/TTI, including Serge and Wazuki re-emerging from the Dead Sea.

- After the original time of the split in 1010 A.D., the Records of Fate would suddenly become inactive, because their transmissions are not preserved by TTI/TB. Events pertaining to the lives of normal people would presumably proceed similar to Home World.

- After 1010 A.D., Wazuki would presumably not turn into Lynx as a biological terminal for FATE because FATE no longer exists, or he might but would not be controlled by FATE. Lucca would not be abducted and the orphanage would not be burned.

- It was Lynx that manipulated the Porrean government and the Acacia Dragoons, not the Records of FATE. Without Lynx around, Porre would not invade El Nido and the Acacia Dragoons would still rule the islands.

- In 1020 A.D., Serge regains the memories of the adventure. The Kid/Schala that is probably on the mainland likely also remembers the adventure, and seeks Serge out in El Nido. Blah blah blah and they get married happily ever after.


Quite a concise theory that passes Occam's Razor if I do say so myself. It neatly account both for Serge's memories at the end of the story and for the existence of the Ideal Timeline, without having to account for Time Bastard events during the story of Chrono Cross at all. Discuss!

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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Biplanes in 1000 A.D.?

« on: December 03, 2008, 07:57:07 pm »

Has anyone seen this? I apologize if this is some well known thing, but I was cruising Youtube and came across it so I thought I'd share. Around 1:11 the Epoch is seen flying over a part of Guardia where Guardia Castle is in the real game (although it's just a house or manor here), and three biplanes cross it's path. Interesting to say the least. :

"Early Chrono Trigger Footage"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyo_AXQLIdI

Man...what a different game it would have been.

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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Time Crash Aims and Dimension Split

« on: December 03, 2008, 06:55:51 pm »

Farfetched and out of line with the Time Crash, but that made me think of anti-annihilation energy somehow stopping the destruction or shunting of past timelines to the Darkness Beyond Time when history is changed. The crazy application is that perhaps this played a role in giving birth to Home World as a separate dimension, when Kid's time-change should have merely shunted Another World's 1010-1020 A.D. history to the DBT with no other effects. So, tenuously, perhaps the Time Crash's anti-annihilation energy was directed towards that point in time for some reason (ah, we're in left field here), or, the Frozen Flame (which seems to be a source or conduit of this energy) was used in 1010 A.D. to create Home World from Kid's change, perhaps activated deep within FATE as part of Project Kid.

To justify that anti-annihilation energy reverses that timeline-shunting effect, well, perhaps the Counter-Time Experiment needed that so Chronopolis wouldn't accidentally overwrite history in the past and negate itself out of existence. Although really, creating a new dimension isn't exactly "controlling time", since they'd be separated from their achievements.

Bah, that's all too speculative.

Actually, I always assumed that the anomalous nature of the dimensional split was a direct cause of Chronopolis' counter-time experiment. Belthesar planned everything from the start, after all. So, it's not too far fetched at all in my opinion.

As far as "controlling time", I always thought that what they intended to do (although this is not supported from the story script), is to create a pocket dimension around Chronopolis using Lavos' energy, in the same way that Lavos creates a pocket dimension around itself. In this way, Chronopolis would be removed from the space-time continuum and have full access to ALL time periods, thus "control over time". However, something went wrong and instead the boundary around Chronopolis was connected to 12,000 B.C., rather than being disconnected from every point in the space-time continuum.

I always also assumed that "anti-annihilation" energy was just a pseudo-sciency way of referring to anti-matter, because wasn't it stated elsewhere in the plot that the Neo Epoch ran on positrons or something of that nature?