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Topics - Satoh

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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Lavos is Real (Theory)
« on: January 15, 2014, 03:58:54 am »
Don't let the title confuse you. I'm not mad. Stark? Maybe. Raving? Probably. But mad? No. I'm totally....mostly sane.

So, recall that Dreams are very much real in the chronoverse. If they are strong enough dreams they can take shape and affect the world around them.

Masa, Mune, Doreen, and the Lagoonates from CC are such dreams.
Also, it has been mentioned that we are all a part of the Planet's dream.

My theory is that the reason Lavos exhibits strange temporal behavior, is that it is not part of the dream.
The world we see is part of the dream. All things living in our world are parts of the dream.

Lavos is an outsider. It came from space, outside of the Entity's influence.
As the world is part of the dream, the Gates can be considered moments of lucid dreaming that allow parts of the dream to exit the normal 'dreamspace' to move forward of backward to different memories of the dream.

The dream we are in exists on a separate temporal axis from the Reality that the Entity and Lavos inhabit. Not disconnected from it, but not normally affected by it.

'Lavos space' is actually more akin to how a Dream perceives Reality.

Lavos' appearance marks the beginning of a nightmare for the Entity. Lavos' arrival was a traumatic event in Reality that caused ripples in the Entity's dream, and the frantic panic state forced the Entity's consciousness to exert itself on the dream, creating Gates as it tries to understand what is happening, why, and what to do about it.

There are a few things that this means for us.
Lavos' arrival on the planet, and the eventual apocalypse, the death of the planet, may actually be happening very quickly. We as parts of a dream that intersect Reality but are not part of it experience the death of the planet very differently from the planet itself.

Lavos almost never directly contacts humans or does anything in the world at all really. The reason for this is that Lavos is not keen to the dream's mechanics. Rather than manipulating time as we know it and having strange pocket dimensions, Lavos is actually ignorant that the dream is happening until parts of the dream interfere with it directly.

Understandably Lavos is confused by this, and attacks the strange things it is seeing. Lavos is not extracting DNA from US so much as it is siphoning something of import from the Planet, which is killing it. The planet's fear of this echoes in the dream, which is how we understand it.

Lavos does not directly understand the dream, but it is capable of understanding it and interacting with it. You can sort of imagine we are swirls on the surface of a soap bubble... our whole world is. We never experience the interior of the bubble, the volume of air inside it, not normally. That voluminous space inside and outside of the surface of the bubble are Reality, and we are merely the image on the surface.

Lavos penetrated that bubble from the outside, and is now inside with the Planet, where the Entity exists and has influence. We experienced this incursion as Lavos crashing into the Tyrano Lair. (This is probably one of the few moments we experienced alike with the Planet)
Being inside the bubble, the Entity and Lavos are capable of affecting its surface.
Lavos for the most part doesn't notice the surface, as its goal lies in the volume, where the Planet is.

Being that Lavos and the Entity are both capable of influencing the dream on the bubble's surface, the Entity tries, in brief moments of panic or lucidity, to enlist help from its dream. (Just as a person having a nightmare would seek help from a dream character)

1999 is the realization that the Planet is being attacked, 2300 is the understanding that it is dying. 65mBC-1000AD are for the most part, just different parts of the dream. Dreams are discontiguous. Dreams are mutable.

The Frozen Flame is one of the few direct interferences Lavos and the dream have on each other. Lavos contacting the dream changes the dream; changes us.
The dream becomes aware of Lavos through this, and Zeal is born. Being aware of the Reality outside the dream, though not understanding it, Zeal tries to harness Lavos' power. Lavos is understandably startled when what seemed like an image on a soap bubble, exerts a Real effect on it, and so it destroys Zeal.

So too does it destroy Crono. Crono has exited the surface, (due to the Entity's incredible strength of dream) and entered Reality, to attack Lavos.

I'm sure there's plenty wrong with this theory, but it was an interesting thought I had. It changes things a lot when you consider that instead of Lavos being the exception to logic, we are in fact exceptional to a fictional logic dreamt up by a dying planet whose ken is beyond our capacity to understand.

We are extraordinary dreams of such urgency that we become manifest, if only for the briefest time. It didn't enter our space, we left the dream and experienced Reality for the first time... but we couldn't comprehend it because the common sense of that world was alien to us. So we saw it as strange time outside of time, when it was our time that was strange instead.

2
Lavos is a creature with a complex protective shell, that absorbs DNA to augment itself...

I propose that Lavos is in fact the pinnacle of evolution for a VIRUS. Through the course of its evolution over billions of years previous even to 65000000BC, it became a sentient or semi-sentient race of multi-celled organisms that retain their inherent nature of DNA manipulation.

We can look at the swine flu virus for instance... the core of it is an ordinary strain of influenza, however, its casing is a mutated combination of bird, pig, and human flu, which is what gives it its resistance to antiviral agents.

Imagine taking that thing which has a protective case, and changes our DNA to reproduce before our cells die from the modifications... and making it 50 feet wide.


Conversely consider that the planet is alive in CT, thus Lavos could simply be one of any number of self-replicating planet-viruses... And Crono et al.(That is, living organisms) act as macrophages for the planet.

You could even imagine further that the universe itself is naught but a single living thing on some level, and life as we know it are individual cells to it, while planets and stars are organs. In that case, Lavos and its ilk would be like small infections or possibly just debris.



But back on a down to earth look, I think Lavos is to a virus, what humans or reptites are to the proposed single celled organism live in CT would have evolved from.

Basically, while life like Reptites and humans were evolving from some protozoan somewhere, Lavos' race was likewise evolving from a virus on some other place... Probably for longer even. Over time it developed more sophisticated defenses than its outer shell. As it grew in size, its use for DNA evolved as well. From being only a mechanism to force other cells to reproduce it...

To building itself new defenses and giving it a way to reproduce on its own. Its behavior is much like a virus even, it attaches itself to a planet, and lies dormant while affecting the DNA to reproduce...

Another possibility is this: Lavos doesn't reproduce at all, and in fact, is using the planet EXACTLY like a virus would, and forcing the planet itself to produce the Lavos spawn.


Those are the thoughts I had while overlooking some of the Lavos discussions just now...

EDIT: My apologies, I forgot Lavos was a separate thread. I didn't see the "Lavos and other entities" thing until just a second ago... -_-; Again, apologies.

3
Submissions / Just guess what this is called....
« on: June 18, 2008, 11:50:22 am »
PIC
PIC the 2nd

Sorry for the lazy texturing on the bottom of the head...

4
Chrono Cross Modification / CC Weapon Pack Structure
« on: June 14, 2008, 08:20:45 pm »
Ok, I noticed a repeating pattern in the weapon .OUTs, it starts roughly roughly 60 lines from the very beginning of the 3rd section. In Serge's case its at 2790 and in Kid's case it is at 2530...

I believe it may be either the names of the weapons or maybe the stats, I think its worth investigating...


But I have little experience with this type of thing...

original message:
First let me say, I'm new to the whole hex exploring, but I think I've found something regarding stats or something in the weapon packs...

starting at 2790 (in serge's weapons) there's a set of data that has a repeating pattern... it repeats 7 times, once for each weapon in Serge's list it looks like... now, some places are filled with 0 that others have a number, typically only one or two entries have a 00 byte at either the beginning or end that the others don't. I assume this is for things like special effects that weapons as individuals have, but other weapons of the same type(swallow) don't have. then again, it could be something as simple as a naming convention.... but there's 7 similarly structured entries in an even spacing from eachother, it may be worthwhile to look at it....

but like I said, it may just be the ramblings of someone completely inexperienced... I'm going to check other packs for similar data...

EDIT: this data pattern is present in the 3rd section of both Serge and Kid's weapons, about 15 60 lines from the beginning of the section.

5
This is a link to an absolutely wonderful tutorial for doing 3D artwork...

For anyone looking to learn a little of the skill, I suggest checking it out at least once...

Unfortunately the pages load a little bit slow...

It does help to be familiar with some of the tools in 3DS Max and/or their equivelents in other programs...

anyway here goes...:

Joan of Ark

It's very detailed and includes everything from start to finish on how to make a 3D character.

(I'm currently doing it in Maya just for fun...and because the model is pretty nice in the end...)

6
ok lets look at something, Pierre's hero equipment seems to be the same ones from the previous chrono installment,

The hero medal: no one knows for certain where it went after 600AD, Glenn perhaps left it in the hands of someone he trusted, asin other theories, possibly someone in Porre.

If I remember correctly, Porre was home to Tata as well(the boy who cried hero). Tata, if you remember, had a shield--
a green slightly shiny one. This seems to be the same shield as is found in the Viper manor treasury.

Now, here is my theory, (I hope its a viable one this time XD; )

  • Glenn establishes the Acacia Dragoons.
  • Tata, seeking to redeem himself for past mistakes, trains and eventually joins the Dragoons
  • Glenn entrusts the hero medal to the grand master reigning during his declining age and health
  • Tata continues his family line and makes a tradition of a son being born into the Dragoons
  • Tata's family either is, or becomes, the Viper family, whose heirlooms include Tata's shield
  • The above mentioned grandmaster leaves in his age to start or be with his family, leaving the Medal to them
  • Eventually Gen. Viper becomes the current heir to the Viper line, makes his name in porre etc etc and ends up in El Nido--taking the shield with him.
  • The family of the ex-grandmaster  has continued now, and has a very strong sense of duty, honor, etc etc...but, being far removed from the Dragoon order themselves, are not entirely capable as warriors... more like "noblemen"
  • Succeeding the ex-grandmaster family is Pierre, who made his way to El Nido to 'reclaim his family's glory as Dragoons' or something(as part of his quest, he takes his family heirloom, the hero medal with him, as proof of lineage)
  • Serge is sucked into another world by the vaccuum of his absence, beginning the adventures in chrono cross, meeting pierre, viper, etc. linking their histories together once again.

Ok, I'm basing this on the theory that Glenn created the Dragoons in Porre after the events of CT. For sake of simplicity, we assume the family lines of all characters are fairly linear and not branching in every direction.

It doesn't take into account Glenn's(El Nido) relation to Glenn(Frog).

I am sorry if my thoughts seem stupid or not very well thought out, but I enjoy simply theorizing and conversing...

7
Ok... I'm officially confused.

Belthasar was warped to the ruined future, right? There, he developed Epoch and a way to climb up to Death Peak. (speaking of, if death peak is lavos covered in crud, where do the lavos spawn come out of...? shouldn't there be a pathway inside lavos from there?)

Anyway, shortly after death peak, he died and left his last memory fragments in the Nu/robot/thing....

How did he A. escape the destruction of the future, and B. end up in the non destroyed future...?

He was sent to an already crushed future, which was destroyed when lavos was defeated. Wouldn't, then he be forced into the darkness beyond time or cease to exist or something? According to Time Traveler's Immunity, he should be unchanged by events changed in the past, however, since he was transported to the dying world after the day of lavos, when history was changed, shouldn't he have remained in the dead time or possibly in the DBT because the place he was transported to, would have never existed?

Even still, how did he have the time, (if he was dying anyway) to build the Neo Epoch, to somehow save himself from having to wait 10000 years for Serge to show up in Viper's library, (or for that matter for Viper's library to exist)?

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I never thought about it until after I read about TTI etc...


Not only that, but he would have had to have lived a fairly long while in Chronopolis to get all his planning/studying/discovering done for Project Kid...

And speaking of Kid, she obviously didn't met Serge until he was attacked by Karsh, so, shouldn't that mean she went back in time afterSchala was freed, and in any case, HOW did she travel through time?

Chrono Cross never seems to make full sense to me... normally I'm pretty good with this stuff but... every time I figure something in CC out, it only confuses other things I thought were given...

8
First off, I have only this to work from:
http://sdb.drshnaps.com/images/BGs/CT/ZealPalace.png
Now, my question is this:
There are 3 doorways in that image:
One on the far left, leading down a hallway to a fork that leads to Janus and Schala's rooms.

One leading down the main corridor (in the center) to the Mammon machine room.

But, where does the one farthest to the right lead? (or I may have it backwards and that one leads to J and S's rooms...)

Is it the room that resembles the Mammon Machine room, but has some sort of throan instead? (I don't remember well... and I don't have ZSNES with me or the patience to play up to Zeal just for a small detail lookup...)

If there's a map here on the compendium that I may have missed, please point it out?

9
Submissions / I was inspired into the Chrono fandom once again...
« on: June 06, 2008, 09:26:08 pm »
As it says, I've become addicted to the Chrono adventures yet again, do to this forum... As such I've begun playing CC again and I drew a crappy little pic in a crappy little drawing book....ok maybe it isn't... crappy... but I could have done better if I had spent more time on it... (also if I still had my tablet's pen >.<;  )

And I colored it in Photoshop CS2



[attachment deleted by admin]

10
Considered posting in an older topic about this, but my theory is different from the main ones in the Compendium FAQ, so I figured I'd start fresh.

First off, this theory assumes that the Dreamstones are capable of holding their "proper charge"* for a long time, second, we assume Dreamstones "attract" energy, and thus is why they were used at all.

The Masamune (Ruby Knife, Dreamstone) drain energy from eachother due to diffusion(object with greater energy disperses its energy into object with lesser energy until both are equal, or relatively equal by percentage...Not a new concept). The Ruby Knife was designed to take energy from the Mammon Machine, however, as the Knife, it wasn't capable of handling enough power to be useful, thus Masa and Mune 'awakened', becoming the Masamune. The sword, having more theoretical capacity (whether it be physical or metaphysical capacity, IE physical size or spiritual powers) was able to siphon off considerable amounts of energy from the Dreamstone inside the Mammon Machine.

(Melchior used his Dream companions as the catalyst for the Ruby Knife, knowing that the capacity of the Dreamstone in the knife alone wouldn't be enough to drain the Machine)

So, the Mammon Machine, having greater stores of energy, diffused that power into the competely uncharged Masamune. (like an air freshener dispersing throughout a room instead of staying directly where it was sprayed)

That explains the Mammon Machine, but why does it work on Magus? Several theories have been proposed, and one seemed to be getting close, but it went the wrong direction in my opinion.

Before I continue, lets remember something Schala said to Janus...
(lacking an actual quote, I'll give the gist of the scene) Schala gives Janus 'a magical amulet that will protect you'
as she effectively describes it. This amulet, is in fact the same type of amulet that allows interface with the Mammon Machine.

NOTE: These amulets were imbued with Dreamstone also.

Janus keeps this amulet all the way up to the point at which you are given the choice to recruit or kill him(as Magus).
Should you choose to recruit him or not, you obtain his amulet, which was drained of its power at some point previous. However, when you fight him the first time, in 600AD, the amulet still has power(This is where the theory effectively starts). The Masamune, having been most likely unused(as a Dreamstone object, unused that is) for thousands of years, broken, and finally reforged using a new piece of Dreamstone, lost its energy charge(that it had gained from the Mammon Machine)

Now to the point, Magus' magic defense was partly a side effect of the amulet's power (which Schala had given the protective magic). The amulet may not have been fully charged** by the time 'we' fight Magus in 600AD. During this fight, (if used... though I don't see why it wouldn't be) the Masamune drains energy-- not from Magus himself, but from the amulet's protective charm. The same can be true of the next bout, if 'we' choose to kill Magus.

Now, having said all of this, you probably think to yourself:

Question: Then why does the amulet not work on the sealed doors if it still has some charge?

Answer: Simple, the amulet in Magus' possession was A. not fully charged anyway, due to time, B. It was storing an energy it wasn't designed to store, and thus it sped the loss of energy, and C. the doors weren't meant to open with just any type of energy, such as the energy of the protective charm, but specifically the Lavos energy.

Q: Why, then, does the Masamune drain the protective charm from the amulet?

A: Because, the energy in the amulet was only barely being held inside it in the first place, the force of 2 Dreamstone artifacts vying for the energy would still lead to the dispersal of the energy. Not to mention the Masamune was designed to drained the Mammon Machine itself, so the capacity to drain an already diminishing protective charm would be more than easy...

Q: Why doesn't the Masamune have the same protective powers as the amulet did, if it drained the amulet's power?

A: While the Masamune did draw the energy away from the Amulet, it was not made to harness the protective energy, and thus, did not store it. Schala specifically and purposely charged the amulet herself. No one attempted to "trap" the protect charm in the Masamune.

*Energy harvested from the Mammon Machine's interface with Lavos.

**(possible due to the fact that the magical energy Schala charged it with was likely not the intended type of energy, and Magus did have it for a few good years)

Now, have I forgotten anything? what do you all think? Is my observation of things in some way faulty, it seems rather sound in my mind... (though maybe a little confusing to read... I'm not sure about that...)

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