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Messages - CptOvaltine

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Fan Art / Re: Chrono Cross Finale: Starky, Glenn, Norris
« on: March 04, 2021, 09:29:08 pm »
Wonderful work!  I really like your style!

Site Updates / Re: The Chrono Compendium and Fandom in 2019
« on: February 07, 2021, 07:44:48 pm »
Life gets busy, but I'll try to contribute where I can!

Kajar Laboratories / Re: The Chrono Vendian Project
« on: December 08, 2020, 04:52:52 pm »
This sounds awesome!

I know you're using Malcom's  music for this, but I'd be interested in supplying a song or two if you find any need for some custom music. (Time permitting) Look up Cross Symphonic on Spotify if you want to hear some references!

Either way, good luck with everything! I can't wait to see how it turns out!

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Re: Longing of the Wind score
« on: October 18, 2020, 08:34:03 pm »
Hey, welcome to the party!

I think there are plenty of people out there that would be interested in seeing what's happening on paper.  Thanks!

News Submissions / Re: Chrono Trigger Remake Concept
« on: September 11, 2020, 01:23:06 am »
I don't think it's that you're a orchestra snob... it's that you are, professionally, a composer and live orchestras is both your skill and career! Bahaha!

That might be true as well, but I'm definitely an orchestra snob, dad always tells me I'm too much of a purist. haha  :lol:

Little does Mjolnir recognize that he is talking to one of the best video game orchestration gurus out there, and turning Chrono Trigger and other SNES/PSX era hits into orchestrations is literally your forte. Bahaha!

Well thanks, Boo! I don't know that I'm one of the best, but I'm really glad you like my work. You've been a solid friend and supporter since we met a few years ago. :)

News Submissions / Re: Chrono Trigger Remake Concept
« on: September 09, 2020, 04:18:04 pm »
I don't mean that the exact same number of instruments should be used. What I meant was, for example, is that if it's strings in the chiptune music, it should be strings in the orchestra—not the same number of apparent violinists, cellists, etc. (I'm not sure how one would determine the number of simulated musicians in a set of chiptune instruments anyway). But it should be the same type of instrument(s) playing the same melody.

I'm not really talking about number of players here, that's subjective and within the recording world there is A LOT of flexibility on numbers when trying to achieve a certain sound vs doing a live concert.

I've heard a lot of orchestrated renditions of video game music with varying degrees of faithfulness to the original pieces. Sometimes it's pretty clear a conscious decision was made to take a slightly different creative direction than the original music—for example, changing a few of the notes in the melody, or swapping out wind instruments for strings. The problem here is that whether or not the change is for the best is very subjective. Since I'm proposing a remake that tries to keep the original creative vision intact, changing the melody or instrument type are changes this remake should do without.

I suppose "faithfulness" is subjective to what you define as being faithful or not.  If your biggest concern is melody and overall harmonic structure, then yes, I agree with you.  It's totally possible to recreate the original melody and structure with a live orchestra while capturing the magic of the original.  That being said, the orchestration will be wildly different then the game because, again, you now have essentially 32+ parts to write vs 8 on the SNES.  Granted there is some wiggle room here when you take into account section patches and doubling, but orchestration for a live group will still fall well outside of the realm of what was possible with the SNES.

But how many sets of instruments in an orchestra are typically used simultaneously? Wouldn't that be what's relevant to the number of audio channels available to the SNES? Strings would be just one set of instruments, for example, that would correspond to one audio channel of simulated strings on SNES.

The short answer is yes, you would utilize the full orchestra quite often. The long answer is it would depend on a lot of different factors like interpretation, orchestration (is the song only strings, or a full orchestra battle track?), desired colors, atmosphere, effects, etc...but that starts to take us down a different discussion path. haha

With all due respect, I'm not convinced this is true. I feel like I've heard too many successful faithful orchestrations of chiptune music, or faithfully recreated segments at least, for this to be true.

A good and relevant example is the End of Time track from the Chrono Trigger Orchestral Arrangement released just last year. The melodies and instruments in the orchestral arrangement are the same as the original, as near as I can tell—and the track doesn't sound bare, empty, or underwhelming. To me it sounds like the chiptune music come to life using real instruments, which is exactly what I want.

This throws back to my earlier statement, if remaining faithful is just a question of melody, tempo and harmonic progression, then yes!  It's totally possible! However, even with the End of Time example track you use there id new material - new string padding with additional 7th chords in the first chorus - the addition of woodwind trills and accompaniment on the first loop.  Winds taking the melody in the second chorus along with a new cello countermelody.  The new ending that breaks the loop and adds resolution, etc. These are all different orchestration choices and additions made to the original to help fill out what would be a bare 1:1 translation of the chiptune melody.

All of that said, the basic idea is still there.  The melody remains largely unchanged, as does the harmonic progression. It's also fair to say that smaller ensemble tracks like this will translate easier as the instrument and part count is much lower then what you would use on the boss track, or Frog's Theme.  The smaller the ensemble, the less restrictive the 8 channels will become to the writing.

I think what you're describing here is more of a re-imagining, rather than the type of remake I'm envisioning. For one, I definitely don't think the short loops are an issue. I think given the tone of the game and anime style, the shorter loops won't feel out of place like they would in a realistic remake, or if it were a feature length film I were proposing. And I definitely don't think "a lot" of material needs to be added to the music. At most, "some" tracks might benefit from "some" material added in, but even then, that's subjective.

I'm not saying you can't change my mind, I'm just saying I'm not convinced as of right now. If you can find some type of argument against my End of Time example, or if you can point to an example of faithfully recreated chiptune music with real instruments that falls flat, I might be convinced.

Is it now more clear what I want and do you think it's feasible to accomplish without the music sounding like it's lacking?

Well you're right about that, a lot of this is subjective to taste.  I think there's a bit of confusion when we talk about new material though.  I'm not saying you would have to add new melody fragments, sections of music, or "re-write" the music etc.  I'm speaking from purely an orchestration point of view.  Translating 8 channels to 32+ parts will require a lot of new orchestration. That doesn't mean the overall idea will change, simply that things will become richer and more fleshed out if done in a way that preserves the original melody and harmonic progression.

But as you said, this is all subjective. haha I will fully admit that I'm a bit of an orchestra snob, and whenever live orchestras are involved I will always advocate for strong sophisticated writing to utilize the group to it's full potential. I'm not trying to convince you one way or another, just trying to point out that I don't think a 1:1 interpretation will translate the way you think it will when it comes to orchestral music.

Fan Art / Re: Recent original CT art
« on: September 09, 2020, 03:44:29 pm »
Really enjoying these!  We should talk about a collab at some point. :)

Thank you so much!! You did Cross Symphonic, right? I'm more than happy to return the follow, I absolutely adore the music of Cross. I'd love to do a collab! Did you have any particular ideas in mind?

(But I just have to add, if anything involving Lucca/Frog's theme was on the table, I'd draw whatever you wanted, LOL)

Yeah, that was me. :)  I don't have anything particular in mind right now, but I can never know enough artists with a love for CT and CC. haha

General Discussion / Re: My projects from game dev school
« on: September 02, 2020, 04:18:42 pm »
Nice!  Spent a few minutes with the space balls game.  Looks like a solid start!

Fan Art / Re: Chrono Cross Finale: Starky, Glenn, Norris
« on: August 30, 2020, 04:26:11 pm »
I love your stuff, definitely a follow from me as well! Would love to talk about having you design some album artwork for me at some point. :)

Fan Art / Re: Recent original CT art
« on: August 30, 2020, 04:24:41 pm »
Really enjoying these!  We should talk about a collab at some point. :)

News Submissions / Re: Chrono Trigger Remake Concept
« on: August 24, 2020, 02:33:00 pm »
Weighing in on the music portion (I have a little experience in this area) wouldn't like the result of a 1:1 musical remake simply swapping everything out instrument for instrument.

The SNES was only able to play 8 concurrent musical instruments (audio channels) at one time. Orchestra sizes vary greatly, but a fairly typical symphonic orchestra will have 35+ different parts and around 60 to 90 players.  With the limitations of the SNES there were very conscious decisions made on what textures to include or to not include in the game that, while sounding good with the SNES, will not translate well to a live ensemble.  The actual result will sound very bare, empty, and underwhelming.

All of this is to say that you couldn't have someone orchestrate the original in a way that it would retain the original melody without changing anything fundamental to the song (which I suspect is your actual idea), but ultimately there will be A LOT of new material added to the music to both flesh it out for live musicians and to extend short loops to better fit the modern era.

Reason #2: I'm sort of scrawny and not a very big guy, and as buff as Ayla is, apparently she doesn't care about masculinity in the typical Americana way.

I mean, she likes Kino, and he looks like he's 12, right? So I am a shoe-in!

I actually always thought that he was a girl in the original...I don't know why...

I came here to see someone fight you, I can't disagree! haha

Chrono News / Re: Chrono Cross Piano Collection - ACROSS THE WORLDS
« on: July 06, 2020, 04:33:43 pm »
Not a big piano guy personally, but the arrangers on this are top notch.  It'll likely be a great album!  Anyone familiar with Masashi Hamauzu and the FF Piano collections will have a good idea of what to expect!

Chrono Cross HD Edition / Re: RetroArch Setup
« on: June 22, 2020, 07:55:39 pm »
Sorry, but it seems the ps classic can't even handle the unmodified version of the beetle core.  You'd definitely want a dedicated GPU (>= a gtx 760) paired with a CPU with good single core performance.

That's a bummer, but not unexpected. I've got a good set up on my work computer that could handle it well. (5GHz single core speed with GTX 1070ti)

I'm not big into gaming on my computer, but Cross could be an exception.

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