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Messages - Darmani

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Other Topics and the Prerelease / Chrono Trigger Inquiries/Review
« on: January 14, 2005, 04:36:49 am »
Gates send you back a set time.  The times given are really estimated rounded off.  You go back 400 years x number of days, months, and weeks and hours.Remember as you are already constantly travelling through time The gate can't send you back before you go.  It only sends you back years.  It just happens to lead to 600 AD because you're in the range for it.  Gates themselves travel through time until they run out of energy and then disappear (that is to say the gate at the fair pops into existence and then  continues to existent for x number of time until you complete the quest and then the gate fades.

BTW if my intererpation is correct even if say from the End of Time all the Gates are fading at once if you were immortal, in a deep sleep, etc you could just wait until the time the g(ate becomes stable/exists and THEN go through it.  (example robo is stuck in 1500 AD; He goes in perma slee mode set to reactivate at the time the Proto Dome gate can be opened.  He wakes up builds his own key goes to the space zapes himself toooo

oops I made a mistake here if the gates merely send you back years unless Robo enters the proto dome gate in at a certain time he can't revisit his pals.  

Example; the gate was under study and observation in 1999 at least.  If Robo took it he'd go back about 1300 years from that day to some day in the year 699 AD and here's the kicker while we can't say the exit apeture in the field of Guardia was not there (schroedinger's cat kinda dealio) we know at a time that open space was completely EMPTY.  So where would Robo go go.  End of time?  Likely,  but that's more a mid way point not the destination.  Maybe the gate fish eyes its time travellers so you get tossed to a proportional point on the timeline relative to the portal's lifespand.

This isn't unusual the debated part is with the Epoch which has on is dial the set times and makes sure not to arrive before you've left every time.  This can be handwaved with the "have a mind and heart of its own."

Quote from: Teflon

1. Why do the Cybots in the Black Omen look and act JUST like Gato?

icon swapping.  But really its sorta like iwth a car.  The general shape and other stuff are just bound to be popular/common maybe even required by physics until the technology evolves to miniturise certain parts or make this or that lighter

Zeal may share Magus's love for mindpuzzles in her fortress and made the Cybots to just mess with their heads.  Also the Omen was gathering info and watching the world.  She observed the curiousity of this "robot" and using the much more advanced materials and technology of the Omen to create a more suped up version of Gato.

Aside: Hence Lucca's much debated "impossible to build line" humanoid bots are ridiculously difficult to build with OUR science. The balancing of the chassis, the required programming and sensors, the space and complexity of the brain, etc.   Lucca could probably make a brain the size of her room the equal of robo's but Robo's body and capabilities with that mind not to mention durability would be impossible.  She could make something the size of a tiger or like an elephant. but not humanoid.  Even her mini steam robo in the anime ending is kinda clutzy and is more or less just a really advanced Robopup if THAT.

2. Why do the ghosts in Chronopolis dissapear after you kill FATE? Did FATE provide some sort of life-support system for them, and after she died, they died too?

Because Chrono Cross is really poorly designed as a game and flawed in execution as a story.  Mainly because the ghosts are poor devices to exposit some sorta notes as to WHERE and WHY the story is happening in the maddenly railroading and dull fetch quest and are set to vanish after an event in the game happens.  It just happens to be after FATE vanishes because the designers want you to go fight the dragon and not you know explore this techno temperal citadel of wonders.

Okay okay in game reason?  With the poorly defined temporal mechanics it appears as if time is echoing and such creating quantum "ghosts" interacting shadows between time and space in Chronopolis.  When the Frozen Flame is stole Chronopolis's field is gone as is FATE really.  No Flame or FATE and the field that makes these echoes more observable collapse.

The observation:

Here's a little interesting thing I saw when you bring Kid to the Radical Dreamers intro in Chronopolis for the first time.

Full transcript:
*end of part about Serge talking about memories of Kid*
Kid: "Radical Dreamers...!?"
Kid: "And me name's on here, too!"
Kid: "What the bloody hell is goin' on?"
<new textbox appears>
Kid: "And here's a passage with me and me old mates."
*start part about Magil, Serge and Kid talking to each other, before infiltrating Viper Manor*

Anybody feel like looking into this?

No I shelled out real money for this game I play Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue more.  Also I think its just a nudge nudge wink wink for the fans.

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic in CT and CC
« on: January 13, 2005, 12:34:35 am »
Spekkio said he can't sense Robo's character so he would not give him magic.  Though his laser weapons could do Shadow damage.

I am not twisting Spekkio's words much just taking them at a different point of view.  Maybe Robots (considering objects and other machines seem to use magic or have magical effects. . .) can use magic in Chrono-verse its just Robo wasn't built or empowerred to do so.

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic in CT and CC
« on: January 12, 2005, 11:25:57 pm »
That's an enormous if.

Magic is a discpline and a science and a skill well its LIKE those things.  Which is more damaging bringing a plane back with you to 1600 Italy or bringing an aeronautical engineer and pilot?

Chrono Trigger implies the latter over the former.  Hello Chrono Cross does as well.  If Ayla had magic she could give it to others or others would study or start using it before it was even invented/dawned.  If magic comes from the planet this is bad.  If magic is very key to the timeline things could get very bad.

I will retract Ayla having magic is more damaging than her having the whole inventory though.  I can't prove it with my current motivation.  But I still believe it.  I mean what are cavemen going to do with a Gate Key or volkswagen sized computer anyway if they're freezing to death and want food.

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Magic in CT and CC
« on: January 11, 2005, 09:31:57 pm »
Probably because they could actually have magic in their time.  It was extremely rare but it existed in 1000 AD.  And in 600 it was very abundant and many thought Frog was a mystic anyway and they believed in magic saving swords and regularly (if primarily aggressively) interact with species that toss out magic.

The Ioka are remarkably xenophobic which isn't unusual for a tribal people who live in a time where if it doesn't look/smell like you bash it alot to be damn sure its not gonna kill ya.  Any strangeness would exclude her.  Well its possible she just recently consolidated her respect with beating every single ONE of the ioka tribe leader challengers with her inhuman strength and skill (head to the 65 mill gate BEFore you return to the present from the future.  explains alot)... but since that's not even hinted at.

Really folks Chrono Trigger isn't  about Earth save for the allusions.  Humans walked with Dinos.  The Reptite history is wrong.  WRONG WRONG.  They just hate humans and say stuff to dis them but nothing about it is to be considerred the sacred truth.  Think about it what do the humans think about Reptites.  And what were the reptites like when you see them.  

They were genocidal.  They weren't peaceful co-existers.  And compared to the Ioka and Laruba they were headed more industrially abusive.  Azala practically begged Lavos's fate on the Earth.  They focused so much on a war that devasted a forest and their own race they loss extraordinarily to people who had the lesser advantage

people seem dense about this.

Masa and Mune are entities born of dreams  particularly made so from the Red Knife which becomes the legendary sword, Masamune.

Doreen is their sister the rock the knife and the pendant were carved from were one.  Doreen is the like Masa and Mune only instead of being from the knife she's of the pendant.

She tells you this in the Ocean palace.  That is where Doreen is in the future.  She seems to prefer passive action more than her brothers who either do nothing or enable actions (or practice being the wind).  Its possible the Entity is the creature born of the dream made 'real' by the pendant that would be called Dorreen.  She would be connected/present with the Guardia line (from Ayla's red rock to even the Director of the Dome's who probably has it them as a keepsake much like Marle does).  She acts continously and subtly to destroy Lavos regretting the world he would create.

She awakens to smack the boys in CC because, hey cameo.  The MasterMune is the unity of  the amulet and the sword.  so Serge is probably using it to cross dimensions later or Doreen's accumulated so much power that  she can upgrade the Mastermune and still keep her physical body.

Magic, Elements, and Technology / My Take on some magic issues and events
« on: December 26, 2004, 02:59:28 am »
Its really the difference from building a fire and then cooking your food to...well having your personal caterer.

Lavos's "smart" energy only needed to be channeled (a complicated process but who here directs the functions of their car every time they drive.  They turn the damn key and check their mirros and steer) and told what to do.  In reality the Zealians had long since lost their mojo they were just yanking the sapient energy of Lavos dreaming with the Dreamstone formed and fashioned into a machine that would do so.  Obviously many safeties, converters and yadda yadda.  But the more they tapped Lavos's energy the more of Lavos's dream/mind or a perception of him spread.    In exceptionals like Zeal, Schala, and Janus this made them deimgods or "marlins" or WHATEVER.  But the thing is Zeal seems to reach a burnout point.

She's still human but her Lavossoul/madness is cutting off her ability to use magic. She's not a human manipulating smart energy she's an extension of Lavos with virtually no Lavos power.  Perhaps the overtaking of her dreams by Lavos and these dreams of her conscious mind scatter her communing ability with the Mammon Machine/dreamstone.  She is essentially a nightmare in human flesh so she can't use Dreamstone anymore.  Hence her desperate need of Schala who gets the different exposure only she was born with more capacity to channel (inheriting some tolerance from her Mother and Lavos's instinctive energy evolving her) and used her power sparingly over time.

Very drug like.  Too much at once, OD and you're dead.  Too many over time and you get complications and the stuff stops working at giving you the effect you wanted but you need it to function basically.  In the right amounts over time witn a little talent you might unlike certain features or developments induced from the use you couldn't get without it.

In normal Zealites it was like an addiction that enticed them to use the smart energy more and their own natural talent to manipulate the Fire element directly atrophied. This trait/flaw is- despite our real life understanding of hereditarism..nism, whatever- passed down through the populace.  The capacity to use magic spreads but also the inability to use it.  It needs to have smart energy or SOMETHING done to unlock it.  Maybe because of the breeding wit hthe mystically luddite Earthbound made so a temporary scarring became a dominate trait (ex. someone who loses an arm in an accident falls in love with someone who was born without one and they produce one armed/limb defficient  babies)

Like missing a set of muscles in a torn arm you can physical therapy to train other muscles to pick up the slack and in miraculous cases repair the loss.  Spekkio is very advanced with magic.  He both gave it to you but in such a way he doesn't overtake you (well maybe he does) but stims and heals the breach.  A wizards training or initiation or martial art skills (which at the esoteric levels become godlike magic see kungfu comics, Dragon Ball Z, Exalted, Journey West etc.) can help you unlock some energy manipulations.  Some have some much Zeal blood or a mutt's accumulation of natural magical leaning or are born in such high mystical areas they get magic.

Some beings just are so far into magic they are different.  These are the Mystics.  This exposure makes them not human.  Whether thay are different species joining into one faction or races in the D&D-concept of fey sense (everyone can breed with each other for unique and interesting results but usually imp sticks to imp, naga-ettes to naga's or gnashers, etc)   or actually different species that only have psychokinetic and magical abilities innate to them as a common thread...well they ain't human.  Magus and Schala AREN'T unique in that they have special powers its that they are human (well in outward appearance) and have special power and talent that puts them above others in their era.

Whereras the Earthbound lack Dreamstone/sweetwater enhanced skills and hope and progress and alot (mostly due to the gross social and natural sitch) the Laruba and Ioka could develop down right frightening skills and powers (Spekkio even SAYS so) and even technology and techniques that eclipse magic.  I think Spekkio really denied Ayla   not because Ayla was too unadvanced as a person or biologically but to protect the timeline.

 A rule of time might be certain things can't exist before their creation.  Magic is one of them.  Also if Ayla had magic if/when she goes back home she'll wreak the future just by having it.  In the past Ayla's people scrapped by without magic as did the MANY generations after them until it was developed and discoverred or something to stay alive.  If Ayla has magic she royally screws with history because that's a physical and constantly effecting thing she has that would just by existing be very harmful.  She may also possibly pass this capacity onto her kids.

In Chrono Trigger your physical history changes some but your mental/spiritual one remains the same.  So Marle is erased but recalls being erased, Crono knows Marle was erased- he saw it happen, Lucca remembers Marle/ectera.  Unless you do something really stupid like kill your grandfather you won't change in a harmful way. Also note that it seems anytime the gang is changing history they're in their relative present- which is normal you always change the future in the present no harm-, outside the normal flow of time in the end of time-so you're on a quiet lull as opposed to the storm un fwapped by the winds-, or outside of time already which means the effect moving forward won't catch you unless its a complete impossiblty for you to exist as you are something serious.  Crono knowing about Lavos isn't an impossibilty because data and minds seems to be just out of the correction's reach IF they are time travelling and are in a sapient's mind.  Even then there is some fusging going on.  Its a consequence of time/dimension travel in Chronoverse.

Also it will rarely cause harm.  Time is an entity or the planet is the entity mucking with time it.  Science can be used to understand it but recall as a living thing it will behave...irregularly from its base noted behaviours.  So don't think in pure complete logic with CT travel all the time.

Think of it like convincing a pretty openminded and roll with the punches person.  It probably knows "Ayla telling a tale of floating citys, men of metal from a world many many seasons after tomorrow will be no more harmful than if she dreamed the thing up and told it to others.  Her experience changed her and those changes will flow through time but really its not going to cause that much trouble."

"Ayla having an impossible trait she couldn't have and that's harnessing and development effects the history of the planet/lavos/humanity/all will really FUBAR the sitch. Deny her magic at all costs."

Even more than if she takes the entire Chrono inventory with her history where Ayla has magic is screwwed.  Items degrade and go back into the Earth.  They get used up.  At best technology will be sped up some but what with the whole hostile environment and tide of history things will change but not go bad. Not destroy humanity bad anyways.  Instead of causing a disasterous paradox it will just cause a potent change."

BTW the disaster was Zeal sucking up WAY to much of Lavos's energy causing it to awaken grouchy  And its mind kinda patchy and stuff.  Its brain is VERY large and complicated as is its mind.  It spotted threats and tossed them through gates to eliminate them nice and neat so as to avoid a fight.  In the original sequence it blasted the Mammon machine or just figgured out how to stop the gravy train.  

Zeal falls.  When you interfere you confront and fight it and Queen Zeal doesn't end up dead.  Lavos rewards her or she finally establishes her own connection and creates the Dlack Dream/Omen.  Its also a defense mechanism.  It acts as a funnel  for Lavos to eye the world and protect itself. PErceiving events out of time or using logical deduction (Janus's presence as a fully grown adult probably tipped it off that it needed to make something more...aggressive in its establishment/defense and it needed to be something that worked by mainpulating time).

This is GREAT for Zeal she becomes an avatar for Lavos.  Lavos gets a little out of it by having a blatant and quicker means to act on the Earth and combat nonlinear temporal threats as to his slow diffusion or wait until someone finds me method.  For the most part the Dream just stands there.  It probably elminates temporal threats before they start if only by standing around and creating an aura/superstition of grand fear about itself. Note it is after the Omen rises we find mother brain went crazy.  That may have been a change to history.

Lavos couldn't gate the Chrono crew because the Mammon Machine was damaged by the red knife becoming the Masamune at that time and.. compared to the three Gurus, Zeal,  and all your party is thought of as such threat that Lavos's equivalent of autodefense takes care of you.

The way you get to lavos is you attack him in a blind spot.  A time he either discounts you (ocean palace) or is so commited to his current course of action he doesn't want to screw it up by ya know sending you into a past you could do something about it (Day of Lavos) or isn't fast enough (crashing the Epoch into Lavos) or weakened by your slaughtering of his hybrid dream/palace (if you go through the Black Omen) gating you away is too much for him. Also you're out of history and connected to the End of Time at this point which you've filled with gates to lead back to him.  If he knows this he knows its just a temporary measure at best.  Sure in game you never can but how much you willing to bet if Lavos puled his trick the other members of your team or the Wings of Time itself will rush to your aide and take you back to the battle.  Mabe you just naturally end up at the end of time without having to double back through a portal.  congrats Lavos they're back wit hthe epoch and going to ram you.

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