Chrono Compendium

Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion => Topic started by: Lavos on June 27, 2012, 01:28:53 pm

Title: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: Lavos on June 27, 2012, 01:28:53 pm
NOTE: Yes, I am aware that DnD alignments run contrary to the concept of complex characters. However, I could honestly not care less. I'm only doing this for fun.

Have you heard of DnD alignments? Basically, your DnD alignment depends on both your tendency towards order and your disposition in general. Here I'm going to sort characters from Chrono Trigger to the best of my ability.

LAWFUL GOOD

NEUTRAL GOOD

CHAOTIC GOOD

LAWFUL NEUTRAL

TRUE NEUTRAL

CHAOTIC NEUTRAL

LAWFUL EVIL

NEUTRAL EVIL

CHAOTIC EVIL
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: Manly Man on June 27, 2012, 03:41:06 pm
Being as avid a fan and well-versed in Dungeons & Dragons as I am, I think I would have to disagree with you on some of these.

Both Crono and Lucca I would say are actually Neutral Good. Yes, they did break the law- unless you count the laws of physics, in which case the entire crew is wanted dead or alive- but it was not with so much impulsiveness. Breaking a law does not make one chaotic, and a Neutral Good character will break the law if it's necessary to do so for the greater good. Marle, however, I wholly agree with you on.

Ayla is a bit hard to place, but I would say that she's a few shades closer to a Lawful Good character than anything else. While written law was not something developed in her era, there was still a code she followed, both respecting the laws of nature and those of her tribe. The Lawful-Chaotic axis I do not disagree with you about. However, even if she adheres to her personal code almost religiously, much of her actions are for the protection and therefore benefit of everyone she knows she can apply it to. She was even going to be so merciful as to save the one who was considered her greatest enemy, even if Azala refused. That's the sort of thing that shows a kindness that cannot be ignored.

Queen Zeal I also have to disagree with, although this is not about her morals so much as it is her ethics. The sheer madness that the deep, soul-twisting touch of Lavos imbued her with left her with so little respect for anything and everything, apart from Lavos and herself, that she has no right to call herself sane enough to consider herself 'lawful'. We all know that she said she wished for her family to become immortal, but even though she said such, the intent was for her and her alone to gain such power. She completely ignored the well-being of her daughter, one that she even said was going to obtain that power, but essentially threw her away, caring only about her own goals and desires, For this, I would say she is either Neutral Evil, for even if she is quite mad, she is most concerned with herself, not for the spreading of madness, which would most likely rule out a truly Chaotic bent.

Also, there are a few that you seem to have left out that would be good examples of other alignments. Of the Mystic Knights, Slash is by far the most law-abiding, respectful and honorable of them. For this, I would call him Lawful Evil, because honor and respect have no true place in one's morals, but are a key part in one's ethics. He lives by a code, and, as we've seen, dies by it, but he has also been a partaker in a most terrible war and done terrible things for it. He has reanimated the dead, bringing them into the world to fight for his cause, and is willing to murder all who stand in his way, and even though we have not seen it, one can only assume, and most likely rightly so, that he already has gone and killed several just for that. While some may argue that he would qualify more for Lawful Neutral, as we hardly see him actually do anything evil, and his cause is for his country, whether they're right or wrong, he keeps an air about him that suggests he enjoys cruelty, which would solidly place him in the Evil category.

While I do recognize there are others that aren't mentioned yet, it would be nice to let others say what they feel about them first, not to mention that some of them are a bit lacking in detail, so they would be more up for discussion than others.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: Satoh on June 28, 2012, 05:15:23 am
Having recently gone through a D&D stint myself, I feel it pertinent to mention that "Lawful" does not necessarily only apply to paper laws, but can also be a reference to self imposed moral codes, provided they have definition. For instance, if a warrior follows bushido and is good, that could be considered lawful good, even when that means "breaking the law." The same is true when the laws between regions are different, and one gives precedence to the law he is familiar with, even in direct violation of the law of the immediate area.

Now on good and evil, consideration for the values must be taken, as for instance, for the majority of our history, slave ownership, traditionally considered evil now in many places, was commonplace, and was, in fact, expected of people.

I also think that Chrono's alignment is nigh impossible to pin down, as there are many cases where the player is given options that either help or hurt others in various ways... Meaning Chrono could in fact be possibly considered lawful, neutral, and possibly evil, depending on your interpretation of intent.

Even chaotic evil characters are capable of doing good deeds. In fact, being chaotic evil does not necessarily mean that character has nothing but evil intent, rather, they have a bias toward harm, and do things on their own terms, rather than by a specific code.

That said, it only serves as a recap now to mention that the alignment chart is not a set of absolutes, but is more of a Cartesian graph, where a character's alignment falls in the middle of the blank space between extremes 99% of the time.

I am, of course, not lecturing you all, but simply reporting my discoveries on the system as described by the masses and veterans, rather than simply what the short blurbs from the rulebook generally imply.

For the reasons above I feel that Robo, who was likely programmed to aid humans...is in fact lawful good.( That may or may not be a product of the original English translation. )
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: Lavos on June 28, 2012, 07:11:41 am
Quote
Also, there are a few that you seem to have left out that would be good examples of other alignments.

I left them out because I thought they didn't deserve mention.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: Simpa on September 18, 2022, 01:18:30 am
Quote from: Lavos on June 27, 2012, 01:28:53 pm
NOTE: Yes, I am aware that DnD alignments run contrary to the concept of complex characters. However, I could honestly not care less. I'm only doing this for fun.

Have you heard of DnD alignments? Basically, your DnD alignment depends on both your tendency towards order and your disposition in general. Here I'm going to sort characters from Chrono Trigger to the best of my ability.

LAWFUL GOOD
  • Frog-I want to serve Guardia to the best of my ability!
  • Cyrus-I'm going to beat the Fiendlord!

NEUTRAL GOOD
  • Schala-I just don't want anyone to get hurt.
  • Robo-I wish only to help the organics defeat Lavos.

CHAOTIC GOOD
  • Marle-Screw you, daddy! I'm running away!
  • Lucca-FUCK DA POLICE, let's get out of here Crono!
  • Crono-Time to make a complete ass of the Guardia law enforcement!

LAWFUL NEUTRAL
  • King Guardia-I just want what's best for my kingdom and family.
  • Chancellor-This kingdom needs a better justice system!
  • Ayla-Ayla do everything for tribe.

TRUE NEUTRAL
  • Belthasar-The Blackbird can help you achieve your goals.
  • Melchior-Weapons should be for protecting life, not killing it.
  • Gaspar-Think of me as your guide on time's road.
  • Lavos-I exist only to consume and process...

CHAOTIC NEUTRAL
  • Magus-I just want to save Schala!

LAWFUL EVIL
  • Azala-The Reptites will rule the earth!
  • Queen Zeal-The power of Lavos will make us strong!

NEUTRAL EVIL
  • Dalton-I will institute a new Kingdom of Dalton!
  • Ozzie-Kill all humans!

CHAOTIC EVIL
  • N/A

I agree about Frog.

I agree about Cyrus.

I agree about Schala.

I agree about Robo.

I find Marle extremely hard to place, by far the hardest. She is chaotic in behavior, but lawful in belief. She thinks monarchy is a good thing, she just feels unfairly treated by her father at one point and only for a short time. "The good guys always win!" "The good and right people support Guardia!" "Crono, you can't just keep sponging off, go and get a job!". Honestly, I would place her at Lawful Good.

I agree about Lucca.

I disagree about Crono, I think Crono is Neutral Good. He is lazy and sleepy, so he does not really care about order or freedom too much I believe. Also, Neutral Good is the most pure and good that there is.

I agree about King Guardia.

I agree about the Chancellor(s).

I agree about Ayla. In the thread is written that Ayla best fits Lawful Good but I would not consider her good or evil, because I do not think it is fair to say that the humans are a better nor worse tribe than the reptites. There are good reptites too. She is just tribal. She wanted to save Azala because she considered Reptites fundamentally equal to humans so I do not think she sees the world in a good or evil light.

I am unsure about Belthasar, I suppose True Neutral makes sense but I feel like he is more of a Neutral Good. He does not have bias towards order nor freedom, he just tries to find the best and most positive solution to everything.

I agree about Melchior. He is associated with all sides in a very peaceful way.

I disagree about Gaspar. I think Gaspar belongs in Chaotic Neutral. He acts upon his free will on his own whim, such as visiting Dreamland just because he finds it a more pleasant place. He also does not believe in micromanaging the environment. He also makes a lot of jokes and seems bored all the time and does things without any order. Despite all this, he does not seem to be acting for personal gain in any way.

I agree about Lavos.

I disagree about Magus. His personality fits Evil because he will happily hurt anyone at the guise of personal gain, such as offering to kill even his own parents if it means saving Schala and Schala is all he seems to care about. I guess he is Chaotic Evil. He does not have any order whatsoever, and the majority of his behavior is to achieve a result he can benefit from.

I think that Azala is not Lawful Evil, but Lawful Neutral just like Ayla.

I am unsure about Queen Zeal. Maybe Neutral Evil makes more sense. "I am the only person in this room who knows what they want, and knows how to get it!" This screams lack of bias towards order or freedom.

I agree about Dalton.

I agree about Ozzie.


Let's add some more figures - Flea, Slash, King Zeal, Cedric, Sorin (the Cyborg), King Guardia + Queen Leene (600 AD), Spekkio, and Nus

Flea is probably Chaotic Evil.

Slash is probably Lawful Evil.

King Zeal is definitely Chaotic Evil. Extremely unpredictable person in the most evil way possible.

Cedric is probably Lawful Evil, because the way he founded Guardia was with the unbeatable Frozen Flame, which is arguably unfair, and he did it just to found his future kingdom.

SORIN-IS-AN-INTERESTING-FIGURE. IT-SACRIFICED-ITSELF-TO-REMOVE-THE-REPTITE-TIMELINE-WHICH-ACTUALLY-SUGGESTS-IT-IS-LAWFUL-GOOD-DESPITE-HIS-INFILTRATION-OF-GUARDIA.

King Guardia + Queen Leene of 600 AD are both Lawful Good, I believe, but there is not much information that I can gather as far as I know.

Spekkio is the most obvious choice for Chaotic Good that there is, I believe.

Nus are the most obvious choice for True Neutral that there is, I believe. They are more neutral than even the gurus. They are the first creatures to ever exist, and they will be the last creatures to ever exist. They can be friendly or hostile to absolutely anybody at all.


My List

Lawful Good:
-Frog
-Cyrus
-Marle(debatable, maybe Chaotic Good)
-King and Queen Guardia and Leene of 600 AD
-Sorin

Neutral Good:
-Belthasar
-Crono
-Schala
-Robo

Chaotic Good:
-Spekkio
-Lucca

Lawful Neutral:
-Ayla
-King Guardia (1000 AD)
-Chancellor (both 600 and 1000 AD I guess)
-Azala

True Neutral:
-Any Nu
-Melchior
-Lavos

Chaotic Neutral:
-Gaspar

Lawful Evil:
-Cedric
-Slash

Neutral Evil:
-Dalton
-Ozzie
-Queen Zeal

Chaotic Evil:
-King Zeal
-Flea
-Magus
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger Alignment Chart
Post by: pseudonymous_traveller on January 26, 2023, 09:01:25 pm
Azala is evil in the same way humans in general are "evil" (if you could call it that) when we destroy species simply to increase efficiency. We're the Lovecraftian monsters at the end of the day as well.  :twisted: