Chrono Compendium

Guru Workshop - Project Forums - Need One? Ask In Kajar Labs => Chrono Series Tarot Card Project => Topic started by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 04:16:41 pm

Title: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 04:16:41 pm
CUPS SUIT
PAGE OF CUPS
:
Janus (http://chronocompendium.com/Term/Janus.html)

(http://www.learntarot.com/bigjpgs/cups11.jpg)

Summary: *Reserved*

Symbolism: "A fair, pleasing, somewhat effeminate page, of studious and intent aspect, contemplates a fish rising from a cup to look at him. It is the pictures of the mind taking form."
(from tarotjourney.net, quoting Rider himself)

Keywords: Emotion, Intuition, Intimacy, Love, Vulnerability, Gentleness, Kindness, Sensitivity to Art
Reversed: Selfishness, little desire to create, a poor imagination, Jealous, Melancholy, Moody, Emotional
(From learntarot.com, tarotjourney.com  & themysticeye.com)

Description: "As a Message: Usually the Page of Cups signifies a message of family matters or a matter of the heart. It might be an artistic message, a story or poem, or a message confessing deep feelings.
     As Time and Environment: This is a time of fresh emotions, feeling them purely and wondering at them. Romance is at the stage of puppy love and crushes.
     As a Child or "Child-like" Person: This is the daydreamer, head in the clouds, rarely paying attention. Which makes it difficult to get them to focus on homework or chores.
     The Page of Cups has got a great imagination, an artistic bent, and a love of story-telling which is both wonderful, but problematic, as they may let their imaginations run away with them. They will believe that there are elves in the garden and monsters under the bed. Adult-wise, they may not be taken serious as they're viewed as too "airy-fairy."
     Very kind and sweet, they'll bring you fresh picked flower, make you a card, write you a song; they'll try to rescue sick birds or abandoned kittens, and take very seriously the death of a goldfish. When sad, they're the saddest kid you ever saw. When happy, they're positively blissful."

(From Aeclectic Tarot)

Fool's Journey: The Page cards are messengers of their suit, often depicted as young men, children, or princesses. The Cups suit is the suit of emotion, imagination, creative sensitivity, and depth.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 04:19:00 pm
As a side note, the Pages are sometimes called the Princesses. So don't be too confused if you see cards for the Princess of Cups -- that's just a liberty that people have traditionally taken with the Page cards.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 04:33:33 pm
For some reason, that last statement reminded me "Magus in a crinoline".

....

Dammit!

Thanks for the thread, BTW!
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 04:43:06 pm
I'm quite fine with someone drawing Magus in a crinoline, though it wouldn't really fit the card XD
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 05:30:28 pm
....

I couldn't resist.

(http://i.imgur.com/GOGQ6.jpg)
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: alfadorredux on December 11, 2011, 08:33:35 pm
...You're evil.  :lol:

Seriously, though, he should look more peeved—it's difficult to be evil when your skirts keep getting in the way.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: xcalibur on December 12, 2011, 02:28:53 am
that was... unnecessary.

further reference for Janus:

(http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/3/36/Janus.jpg)
(http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/e/e2/Ctpsxjanus.png)

also, re: the other thread, I agree that simply holding a cup would be a bit simplistic. we might consider creative ways of featuring the suit in the illustrations.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 13, 2011, 04:42:56 pm
Angerona, here's the lineart, redone in Sai: http://www.box.com/s/iokmuisf0v2l29pbpncd
Feel free to create surrounding designs and environs while I color Janus. Or would you like to color Janus?

Also, check the attachment, people. Do you like the newer, cleaner Janus pants, or do you prefer the older "foldy" Janus pants?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 14, 2011, 06:39:31 am
Looking at it again, the legs look incredibly weird... unless Janus is standing at a mountain top. We might need to take a close-crop of the picture for the card.

...And we need a logo for "Cups". TheMage, you up for this?

Anywho, don't think I can share the Sai file for this one; it's over 9000 60 MB.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 14, 2011, 10:08:18 am
UPDATE!

Whadya think about this style of coloring?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 15, 2011, 04:59:36 pm
Janus is done. What do you folks thing? Any critiques? As you can see here, I've been trying to emulate Alcyone's line style. Alas, she'll always be better at it that I will. XD

Angerona, the Sai file is huge. Here's a render instead (let me know if you need anything else).

Side-by-side comparison:

(http://i.imgur.com/YSEWy.png)(http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/3/36/Janus.jpg)

EDIT: I know you won't see much of a difference if you looked before, but I modified the post coz I changed Janus' chin a bit.

EDIT II: ....and again!
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: TheMage on December 16, 2011, 01:55:06 pm
I think he looks amazing! Shading and coloring looks good to me!
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 17, 2011, 03:28:04 pm
No suggestions on the improvement, symbolism and background? XD
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Angerona on December 21, 2011, 10:05:06 pm
No suggestions on the improvement, symbolism and background? XD

I really like it. Personally I’m fan of a more complex coloring style myself (more shading levels, bouncing lights, etc.) but this one works really well. Probably the only thing I would do would be changing a couple colors and make Janus skin a little liver and a bit pinker or yellower (I love pale Janus but  I feel the color is too similar to Alfador’s lilac fur… I feel that creating a more noticeable difference between both could work better. However f Janus is already in the process of becoming Magus this tonal gamma would totally make sense (Though personally I  would like to avoid the grayish skin tone of the Playstation release, somehow it feels wrong.) Also, it could be that a purplish light is affecting the general color schema (in that case the yellow parts should be more affected by that light). Other than that, I would probably make Alfador’s left eye a little bigger vertically, more similar in size to the right eye. Finally, I feel Janus’ neck is a bit too tick for someone as young as him. Maybe I would make it a bit thinner (without falling in the usual anime/manga/videogames excess of super thin and anatomically impossible necks) but at the end it would really depend of the particular age you are depicting ^^.
I can’t say anything about symbolism right now because I need to actually sit down and read the posts first but I will make sure to come back to you =).
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 22, 2011, 03:33:45 am
XD I just noticed that Janus' neck is not only thick but also unusually long. Can't do much about the shapes (save for Alfy's eye) but how's this coloring?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 22, 2011, 04:05:49 am
...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAND here's where I fix the neck. But... doesn't look good, does it? Compare with the previous post.

Any ideas for the background?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: xcalibur on December 22, 2011, 01:19:16 pm
as for the background, that depends on what situation he's in. Zealian? Ocean Palace? or as you suggested, overlooking the Fall of Zeal (presumably before he was time bastarded).

a Fall of Zeal setting certainly allows for more water in the background. but I'd lean towards Zealian, since it's easy to get creative without going wrong. maybe there could be a fountain in the background to emphasize water, or we could save that for another Cups card.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 23, 2011, 05:23:45 am
I could actually draw the water (juice?) in the cup itself. Not sure how I ought to draw Zeal / Ocean Palace in the back, though. Hmm...

Any creatures from the Ocean Palace we could use as a symbolic and connotative representation of the card?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on December 30, 2011, 05:07:24 am
Brainstorming for ideas:
http://zabobula.deviantart.com/art/Moving-Mountains-188806690
http://noorl3yoon.deviantart.com/art/Move-202921108
http://wroth.deviantart.com/art/Sleepless-Mornings-II-93069301
http://0bo.deviantart.com/art/mountain-186701643

http://scienceandbelief.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/blue_sea_parting.jpg
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 05, 2012, 05:54:49 am
Sorry for my absence, but you know how important New Years can be. XD (Although, I'm not sure if I received my presents from either Santa Clause or Ded Moroz...).

I did a close cut of the Janus card, and while the position seems just how we want it, I'm not sure what background that leaves for the card itself. Check this:
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 05, 2012, 08:10:46 am
How'd you guys like the Cups symbol?  :wink: Also, I'm not too fond of the the font. Any suggestions?

Now that this is out of the way, let's move on to the next card!

(http://i.imgur.com/Hv1WM.jpg)
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: xcalibur on January 05, 2012, 11:32:31 am
very well done. the background is indistinct, but that's not too much of an issue.

let's see what Syna/Angerona/etc. have to say.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Kodokami on January 05, 2012, 05:50:40 pm
Very nice, tushantin. Watching this from its development has been pretty neat, and the end result is great.

Is the art for each card being done by separate artists, or the same?
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 06, 2012, 03:06:56 am
very well done. the background is indistinct, but that's not too much of an issue.
The background is a simple-painted sky. XD Considering the shot we were planning on for Janus initially, painting the "Fall of Zeal" would have gone unnoticed in itself, but then again that may not have been symbolic to the card in the first place. Of course, I agree it is indistinct; I'll see if there's any way I can simulate the style of Laverinne's decor design. As far as I know, I'm nothing compared to her skills.

Is the art for each card being done by separate artists, or the same?
Sort of; they can be different artists interested in a particular card, or they can be the same if it suits their fancy. Currently, Angerona, Lady Marle and I are the only artists at work currently.

You can join in too! Pick a card.  :wink:
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 08, 2012, 10:22:33 am
Now the font looks better! Still, something tells me the card is incomplete...

If you notice that the horizon is slightly curved rather than flat, yup! I love em curves.

(http://i.imgur.com/nwqAv.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/6PvJj.jpg)
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: alfadorredux on January 08, 2012, 11:38:40 am
First thing I notice is that the text has no room to breathe (especially "JANUS" at the top). It looks crowded. Make it a couple of point sizes smaller.

Second thing is, I think you should use the same dark semi-transparent effect behind the card name as you did for the border, instead of just dead black.

Thirdly, I think the second version of the card, with more of his lower body visible, gives a better sense of place. The background for the first card could be anywhere, but the second makes it clear that he's standing on ice. You could add some random ice floes to the water, too, although I don't think it's really necessary.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on January 09, 2012, 02:40:26 am
I agree with alphadorredux's assessments!

I'm really pleased with the way this turned out. It matches the spirit of the card quite well! You get the vulnerability, the emphasis on water, and the expression meanings clearly.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 09, 2012, 02:53:17 am
Did you just call him "Alpha-dorredux"? XD

Alfy, thanks for the suggestions. I'll fix it pronto. As for the "Ice", that was meant to be North Cape. Was thinking I'd paint Mt. Woe in the background somewhere, but I was also worried about losing the card's negative space and making it cluttered...

Any design or tweaking ideas is greatly appreciated to have this card complete!
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on January 09, 2012, 02:59:40 am
I did in fact. I am way sleep-deprived and crashing off caffeine. XD
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 22, 2012, 03:55:01 pm
 8)
(http://i.imgur.com/73S6j.jpg)
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on January 23, 2012, 12:29:17 am
Hell yeah! Our first card is complete.

The project seems a dead-ish of late, and so I hope that this will enliven it a bit. I plan on posting more info and inspiration this week.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: xcalibur on January 23, 2012, 01:21:12 am
indeed, it came out looking awesome.

Hell yeah! Our first card is complete.

The project seems a dead-ish of late, and so I hope that this will enliven it a bit. I plan on posting more info and inspiration this week.

I agree, things have been stalled here. I've posted my thoughts to most threads, but I can always do more. What we need is continued enthusiasm from our talented artists. hell I'd do this myself, but I have little background in graphic arts.

also, Syna: any new ideas on the Gurus and other issues? I'm sure something can be worked out. until then, we'll continue working on the cards which are set in stone.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 23, 2012, 04:54:58 am
I don't think it's complete yet -- the "Alcyonian" perfectionist (http://lysa.deviantart.com/) in me says there's something missing...

Anywho, I'm hoping to assist as much as I can currently, because chances are I won't be available in the coming months. Even so, I'll try to actively seek out artists to help with all the beauty-work. In the meantime, I'm hoping someone can help lead the project, preferably xcalibur.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: xcalibur on January 24, 2012, 08:51:36 pm
I'll definitely be around to contribute my words to this.
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: Syna on January 27, 2012, 12:08:16 am
I do have some thoughts, but I am sans glasses at the moment & incredibly nearsighted :) After I get ahold of new ones tomorrow I will have some time on Sunday, I think, to start the conversation afresh. In the meanwhile I hope we can get an update from our artist-types!
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: tushantin on January 27, 2012, 06:48:09 am
Here's an update from your friendly neighborhood "artist-type": Would you fellas prefer external communications and backup database in case the Compendium throws up again?  :P I have the same username in Skype, in case of swift communications.

Also, I'm not satisfied with how the card turned out. I know I can be better than this... but how? Should I redraw the card? Should I make edits? What is it that eludes the mind?

EGAD, la homeco!

(http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/303/7/f/long_message_service_by_aquasixio-d4eh1dh.jpg) (http://aquasixio.deviantart.com/art/Long-message-service-266174261)

(http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/022/5/4/ignore_the_sparrows_by_aquasixio-d4n9ayf.jpg) (http://aquasixio.deviantart.com/art/Ignore-the-sparrows-280929975)
Title: Re: Cups Suit: Page of Cups - Janus
Post by: rushingwind on February 21, 2012, 02:35:40 am
I am way, waaaaay late with this, but THE CARD LOOKS AMAZING OMG. Great job, you guys! :)