Chrono Compendium

Guru Workshop - Project Forums - Need One? Ask In Kajar Labs => Chrono Series Tarot Card Project => Topic started by: tushantin on November 24, 2011, 01:36:54 am

Title: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on November 24, 2011, 01:36:54 am
Rather than flooding everyone's message box, I'm moving the discussion in this thread.

Useful link by Lady Marle: http://www.themysticeye.com/info/tarotcardm.htm
Useful link by Syna: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/
Useful link by yours truly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpRtrkx5dVc

I think the first order of business may be to set a procedure for making decisions on the cards. Do we want to try and reach a consensus? Will it be by vote? Is everyone okay with a few people taking charge of the card selections? Will the artists work via collaboration, or by themselves, or in some combination of the two to try and nail a consistent aesthetic (perhaps at the expense of individual expression)? These are the sort of questions I'm pondering. We have four people, at least, who seem to know a great deal about Tarot; a number of fine artists; and more who have a rightful say in what gets chosen-- I think it would be easiest just to decide on procedure so things go smoothly, even if our procedure ends up being "Angerona makes the call." :)

Another thing we may wish to do is establish our priorities to act as guidelines as we work. For example, xcalibur mentioned that it would be best if we could have a broad representation of the time periods in the cards, and I said I'd prefer it if the Big Seven each got a Trump. The artists will need to think about how much they want to incorporate the traditional symbolism, what the art style and color palate looks like, etc. I hope that makes sense.

I think RW is a fine candidate for doing the card descriptions, though I do like the idea of a template with the Rider-Waite image, Chrono pics, description of symbolic imagery, and a standard definition of the card, perhaps using the wikipedia pages for ease of use; Lady Marle and whoever else can also quote whatever other sources would shed some insight into the topic, and as Tush proposed, we can quote the opinions that were voiced in the initial thread for optimal discussion.

We also may want to put up a thread for discussing the complete deck, particularly since we may want to discuss the Court Cards in relation to the trumps, and because we may want to have some information about the Tarot system as a whole readily available. Since the cards should work together in some cohesive fashion it would be good to have a place to discuss how they fit in relation to each other. The initial thread may service for this, but it's sort of bogged down at the moment with lots of people discussing lots of different things. :)

So in brief, my suggestions are:
- Let's decide on how we make final decisions;
- We may want to come up with guidelines for card selection (representative of all time periods? each of the major characters gets a Trump?) and aesthetics (templates for the back of the card, stylistic considerations, etc.).
- I would personally like to see a card for the Tarot as a whole and a Tarot for each trump. RW can do the descriptions & I'm also proposing that we use a template akin to the one xcalibur described.

Like RW, I'm very, very stoked that this is actually happening :D Collaboration is so exhilarating! Thank you all for your time & attention. I'm sure this will be a great addition to the Chrono fandom when we're done!
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on November 24, 2011, 03:09:18 am
Considering Angerona's inactivity due to unfortunate reasons (I take it her modem died), for now we'll have to stick to unanimous voting -- albeit I'm in favor of the representation decisions being made by those who actually know Tarot more than the average Joe.

So here's my two cents:

- Debate. Debate like there's no tomorrow!
- Voting is an option, though Card representations and listing ought to be handled be handled by those qualified of the in-depth knowledge (such as xcalibur, Lady Marle, Syna, Angerona and RushingWind).
- Artists can work either individually or collaboratively, it doesn't matter; but results do. Depending on the circumstances, each artist can feel free to improve upon another's work if it can help build quality, and the community will decide if the improvement should be kept or discarded (such as it was for the back design). The community's voice and suggestions also matters, because ultimately the cards are for them -- but the artists also have the rights to accept or reject said suggestions based on their talent and *ahem* "Artistic license".
- The character art-style will stick to Chrono's default one, either Toriyama or Yuuki, or perhaps a blend of both. The design-style could either be inspired by Laverinne (http://laverinne.deviantart.com/art/Mirya-268260830), Shilin (http://ashen-ray.com/) or Yuumei (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/art/Knite-Happy-Chinese-New-Year-196018853), which fit the aesthetic requirements for a perfect Tarot. (And we REALLY need to get Alcyone in on this! There is no quality where there is no Alcyone)
- The color palette can vary. If there's one thing I despise it's restrictive color palette in multiple art-form. XD

Just a few questions though, since I have an unpainted picture in mind and thus wouldn't go about recklessly assuming: What do you mean by "broad representation of time periods"? What of the "Big Seven got a Trump"? What template did xcalibur describe? I guess that's why we need to index ideas for further discussion.  :cry:
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on November 24, 2011, 09:32:19 pm
Considering Angerona's inactivity due to unfortunate reasons (I take it her modem died), for now we'll have to stick to unanimous voting -- albeit I'm in favor of the representation decisions being made by those who actually know Tarot more than the average Joe.

So here's my two cents:

- Debate. Debate like there's no tomorrow!
- Voting is an option, though Card representations and listing ought to be handled be handled by those qualified of the in-depth knowledge (such as xcalibur, Lady Marle, Syna, Angerona and RushingWind).
- Artists can work either individually or collaboratively, it doesn't matter; but results do. Depending on the circumstances, each artist can feel free to improve upon another's work if it can help build quality, and the community will decide if the improvement should be kept or discarded (such as it was for the back design). The community's voice and suggestions also matters, because ultimately the cards are for them -- but the artists also have the rights to accept or reject said suggestions based on their talent and *ahem* "Artistic license".
- The character art-style will stick to Chrono's default one, either Toriyama or Yuuki, or perhaps a blend of both. The design-style could either be inspired by Laverinne (http://laverinne.deviantart.com/art/Mirya-268260830), Shilin (http://ashen-ray.com/) or Yuumei (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/art/Knite-Happy-Chinese-New-Year-196018853), which fit the aesthetic requirements for a perfect Tarot. (And we REALLY need to get Alcyone in on this! There is no quality where there is no Alcyone)
- The color palette can vary. If there's one thing I despise it's restrictive color palette in multiple art-form. XD

Just a few questions though, since I have an unpainted picture in mind and thus wouldn't go about recklessly assuming: What do you mean by "broad representation of time periods"? What of the "Big Seven got a Trump"? What template did xcalibur describe? I guess that's why we need to index ideas for further discussion.  :cry:


Iím terribly sorry I have disappeared the whole week. A combination of unusual factors in my life (including 3 nights in row with my sleep interrupted by cats, starting a new business, taking a business course, attending to classes, etc.) hasnít leave me enough time to even scratch my back (seriouslyÖ I should start offering magic tablets in exchange). But CT puns aside, I have been trying to follow the development of the project trough the emails as much as time has allowed me but just now Iím having time to catch up with the news.
Regarding the characters and elements for each card: Personally I prefer choosing by voting but I get Tushantinís point. Maybe 2 or 3 well funded options could be offered for the general public to vote for the one they think that fits best.
Regarding the cardsí concept, my knowledge is very limited compared to Synaís, so I havenít wanted to get involved since my vision would be based more in artistic criteria than in the deep knowledge of the cardsí meaning, so Iím saving it for the next step of the project =), when the concepts are already settled.
- Artists can work either individually or collaboratively, it doesn't matter; but results do. Depending on the circumstances, each artist can feel free to improve upon another's work if it can help build quality, and the community will decide if the improvement should be kept or discarded (such as it was for the back design). The community's voice and suggestions also matters, because ultimately the cards are for them -- but the artists also have the rights to accept or reject said suggestions based on their talent and *ahem* "Artistic license".

I totally agree. As long as a standard of quality is respected and that the artistic decisions arenít based on a whim (instead of respecting the cards concepts and meanings), I couldnít agree more.

Personally I wouldnítí stick to Toriyamaís or Yuukiís style (If I had to choose I would stick with Yuukiís since as far as I have experienced Toriyamaís style is one of those thinks you love or you hate (and many people fall into the second category)). I would prefer a style most people felt less passionate about. Personally I would propose making a selection of styles and opening a voting poll.  Maybe a more neutral style like the used on the sketches of the missing pieces guide:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/c/c0/114.jpg

Those art styles are amazing, Tushantin! If we could reach such level of quality the whole project would achieve a new level of impact.
Also, I canít remember who mentioned about adding the numbers to the cards. I would agree with that since those are really important parts of the cards elements.

Manly man had a similar idea. He mentioned, "that you find a way to incorporate the actual Arcana itself into the card. For your example, have something actually with the sun in it, such as Lucca in the pose she makes to cast Flare, only instead of the waves of fire behind her, it's... well, a picture of the sun."
I totally agree. The illustrations should involve the symbolic elements of the cards, even if those are stylized, reinterpreted or deconstructed. A random pic of the character (s) wonít be enough.
 

I think the first order of business may be to set a procedure for making decisions on the cards. Do we want to try and reach a consensus? Will it be by vote? Is everyone okay with a few people taking charge of the card selections? Will the artists work via collaboration, or by themselves, or in some combination of the two to try and nail a consistent aesthetic (perhaps at the expense of individual expression)? These are the sort of questions I'm pondering. We have four people, at least, who seem to know a great deal about Tarot; a number of fine artists; and more who have a rightful say in what gets chosen-- I think it would be easiest just to decide on procedure so things go smoothly, even if our procedure ends up being "Angerona makes the call." :)

While Iím totally for the individual expression, I firmly believe the deck needs to have a certain level of cohesion. Since different artist will be participating it can be expected to have the visual problem solved on the same way on every card (and I donít want to kill an artistís individuality and personal language) but some specific criteria has to be followed.

I will try to be as active as time allows (Iím planning to log in at least a couple times per week), but donít let my absence stop you from developing this (especially since there isnít much I can contribute with during this stage of the project).
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on November 25, 2011, 01:42:57 am
Just a few questions though, since I have an unpainted picture in mind and thus wouldn't go about recklessly assuming: What do you mean by "broad representation of time periods"? What of the "Big Seven got a Trump"? What template did xcalibur describe? I guess that's why we need to index ideas for further discussion.  :cry:

xcalibur suggested that each time period get balanced representation in the deck, where possible. For instance, he promoted Mother Brain as the Hierophant based on a lack of representation of the 2300 AD in the Major Arcana, in addition to her appropriateness to the card's meaning.

"The Big Seven" are each of the playable characters in CT. My personal preference is that they each get a Trump card (aka Major Arcana card).

The template was (correct me if I'm wrong) for each individual card's thread. For instance, the Fool would have an image of the Rider-Waite* Fool card, a description of the meaning and the symbolism in the card's imagery, and relevant Chrono artwork for reference.

*For those who may be confused, Rider-Waite is considered the "standard" tarot deck upon which the others are referenced, simply because Rider's changes profoundly influenced the Tarot of English-speaking countries.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on November 26, 2011, 06:36:08 am
time to break my level ** and enter guardian status.

Quote
xcalibur suggested that each time period get balanced representation in the deck, where possible. For instance, he promoted Mother Brain as the Hierophant based on a lack of representation of the 2300 AD in the Major Arcana, in addition to her appropriateness to the card's meaning.

indeed. as in other areas, we'll have to balance principle and expediency - we're merging two independent systems, which is never simple. I was thinking that Dreamstone and the Chrono Trigger could be set in prehistory and the future respectively, which would help.

Quote
"The Big Seven" are each of the playable characters in CT. My personal preference is that they each get a Trump card (aka Major Arcana card).

this was your idea, and it would be great. most have fit in smoothly, the only real problem is the Guru issue. As I mentioned in the discussion thread, I like the idea of being consistent and complete - all 3 gurus, not just 2; all 7 party members, not 5 or 6.

Quote
The template was (correct me if I'm wrong) for each individual card's thread. For instance, the Fool would have an image of the Rider-Waite* Fool card, a description of the meaning and the symbolism in the card's imagery, and relevant Chrono artwork for reference.

*For those who may be confused, Rider-Waite is considered the "standard" tarot deck upon which the others are referenced, simply because Rider's changes profoundly influenced the Tarot of English-speaking countries.

yes, that was my idea.

in the next post, I'll put the whole index of what we've got and outstanding issues. I'll also post it in the discussion thread. (let me know if it belongs in here).

also, while I'm not a graphic artist, I do have mental images of how the cards could look. I'll be sure to describe my ideas in the threads, and if necessary do simple drawings to illustrate.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on November 26, 2011, 07:10:50 am
MAJOR ARCANA

Fool - Chrono/the Player
Magician - Norstein Bekkler OR Belthasar
High Priestess - Schala
Empress - Azala OR Queen Leene
Emperor - King Guardia
Hierophant - Mother Brain OR Belthasar
Lovers - Crono & Marle
Chariot - Epoch
Strength - Ayla (closing a sabertooth tigers mouth)
Hermit - Belthasar OR Gaspar
Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate
Justice - Frog w/ Masamune and Hero's Medal
Hanged Man - Gaspar AND/OR Robo
Death - Lavos OR the Chrono Trigger<........
Temperance - Melchior                                          |
Devil - Magus                                                            |
Tower - Mammon Machine                                   |
Star - Marle w/ Pendant                                         |
Moon - Black Omen OR Dreamstone                 |
Sun - Lucca w/ Sun Stone                                       |
Judgement - The Chrono Trigger OR Lavos<..
World - Nu/Entity

where there are two different possibilities, I put OR in bold. where OR is bold, underlined, and italicized, it relates to the whole Guru issue (I'll address that next). I attempted to draw an arrow between Death and Judgement, since a choice on one sets the choice for the other.

The Guru issue is the conflict between fitting the 3 Gurus and the 7 party members. Almost everything fits, but then we have to place Robo. It seems that Hanged Man is most applicable, but Gaspar is there. We could set Robo there, bump Gaspar to Hermit (since that also kinda fits), then move Belthasar in turn to Hierophant, Magician, or elsewhere.
An unorthodox alternative to this would be to split the Hanged Man card between Gaspar/Robo. Or make it Belthasar/Robo - this might be easier to pull off, at a moderate cost to proper choice.

also, we had some issues with Azala. her role doesn't seem to fit the nurturing Empress too well. But a female Emperor would also be an ill fit. She may have to be assigned to the court, although the King and Queen of Guardia aren't totally ideal for Empress and Emperor.


ACE CARDS

Ace of Swords - Ruby Knife
Ace of Wands - Gate Key
Ace of Cups - Zeal Sapling/Future Seed
Ace of Pentacles - Rainbow Shell

no issues here, everything fits.


COURT CARDS

King of Swords- Masa & Mune  
Queen of Swords-
Knight of Swords- Slash
Page of Swords- Dalton

King of Wands- Spekkio
Queen of Wands-
Knight of Wands- a winking Flea
Page of Wands- Jetbike Johnny

King of Pentacles- Ozzie
Queen of Pentacles-
Knight of Pentacles- Yakra
Page of Pentacles- Gato

King of Cups- Cyrus
Queen of Cups- Fiona
Knight of Cups- Kino
Page of Cups- Janus

This is still open to interpretation, but this is as far as I was able to take it. possible queens I know of are Queen Zeal, Azala, and Cronos Mom. also Queen Leene and Mother Brain, if they're not Trumps.


time periods - I favor adequate representation of the major eras of the game in the selections. naturally there are limitations, such as the uneven distribution of important personalities throughout time. the Major Arcana have a lot of the present, since 3 of the main characters are from there. The Court Cards are dominated by 600 ad. but as long as no one is neglected, it should be fine.

good/evil - I also want to have a balanced mix between good and bad. This isn't too much of a problem in the Trumps, except that it leads me to favor Dreamstone over Black Omen for Moon. frequently maligned tarot cards should have something less negative. However, I may have to sacrifice that in the case of Death - Lavos.
This is more of an issue in the court cards. I'm aiming for balance in the 4 court cards for each suit. Naturally, Cups is going to lean towards positive, but assigning Janus as the page helps balance that. Gato also helps balance Pentacles, and if the Queen is positive then that will be fine. Even if 3 of the swords are negative, Masa&Mune as king can balance that imo.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on November 26, 2011, 07:42:22 am
I'd like to argue that Masa and Mune can't be King of Swords, not because they don't fit the specific Tarot, but because of their attributes themselves.

Most particularly because they aren't "people" like human or mystics, but actually sentient swords, or "Enchanted swords" (aka, Djinn within equipment). While there's nothing wrong with personifying elements, Masamune does not act on its own accord.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on November 26, 2011, 08:17:13 am
I'd like to argue that Masa and Mune can't be King of Swords, not because they don't fit the specific Tarot, but because of their attributes themselves.

Most particularly because they aren't "people" like human or mystics, but actually sentient swords, or "Enchanted swords" (aka, Djinn within equipment). While there's nothing wrong with personifying elements, Masamune does not act on its own accord.

they are dream species. and they do seem to have some capacity for action: they battle the party for the right to wield them, they interact with you in zeal palace and ocean palace, and they release more power after frogs sidequest. They seem to be personalities to the extent that they can be a joint King of Swords. And my choice is definitely Masa & Mune, not the Masamune, since an object wouldn't work as King.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on November 26, 2011, 04:43:17 pm
Ah, well.  :)

They are dream species, but because they can easily connect to a person's heart, I always considered them to be Thoughtforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtform). Hence the "battle before acquire" and the sort.

But if folks are fine with it, I guess it couldn't hurt. They do have identities, so yeah.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on November 27, 2011, 01:17:37 am
Ah, well.  :)

They are dream species, but because they can easily connect to a person's heart, I always considered them to be Thoughtforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtform). Hence the "battle before acquire" and the sort.

But if folks are fine with it, I guess it couldn't hurt. They do have identities, so yeah.

it's alright, questions and debate are encouraged. Ideally, we should consider everything with a wide variety of input before finalizing.

I appreciate the credit I've gotten for knowing about Tarot. but I'd also like to point out that my knowledge of Chrono Trigger is just as useful here.

also, thanks for that thoughtform link.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 01, 2011, 05:01:09 am
Just to inform that I may not be available for discussion or art until Christmas, because some work requires my attention. I'll still be around occasionally. Feel free to commence with ideas, concepts and art.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Lady Marle on December 05, 2011, 04:28:14 pm
I need to take time to read this thread then I'll give my reply :D
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 05, 2011, 07:54:10 pm
So just to put a timeframe on our progress, I suggest we wait for Lady Marle's reply to the choices we've come up with so far, and then proceed with whichever cards seem set in stone after that.

I'm still thinking about the Guru & Empress issues and doing a bit of research where I get the chance, and mostly I'm still undecided. After some consideration, though, I think I am definitely going to endorse Queen Leene as the Empress. She is really the only major character I can think of that fits the card, though maybe Lady Marle will have a new insight for us.

If we can get past the gender issue, I think Azala makes an appropriate Emperor. However, I wouldn't want to strain fans' belief overmuch-- she always struck me as an androgynous character, but that is a very subjective assessment. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on December 06, 2011, 09:53:57 pm
So just to put a timeframe on our progress, I suggest we wait for Lady Marle's reply to the choices we've come up with so far, and then proceed with whichever cards seem set in stone after that.

I'm still thinking about the Guru & Empress issues and doing a bit of research where I get the chance, and mostly I'm still undecided. After some consideration, though, I think I am definitely going to endorse Queen Leene as the Empress. She is really the only major character I can think of that fits the card, though maybe Lady Marle will have a new insight for us.

If we can get past the gender issue, I think Azala makes an appropriate Emperor. However, I wouldn't want to strain fans' belief overmuch-- she always struck me as an androgynous character, but that is a very subjective assessment. What do you guys think?

Indeed.

We might just have to select Azala as Emperor and make a sacrifice on the gender issue. While King Guardia could fit, with his rule over a stable kingdom (chrono cross notwithstanding), he's just not an imposing or dominant presence. time period representation favors Azala. and I agree that Azala did not seem overtly feminine.

the biggest problem is that CT fans will jump on it like OMG you didn't know Azala is female? ROFLZORZ, etc.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Lady Marle on December 07, 2011, 08:17:50 pm
Okay! Here's my two cents:

Fool - Norstein Bekkler with a cat
Magician - Prophet in the Zeal Throne Room, displaying his power to Queen Zeal and the Court
High Priestess - Schala, sitting on a throne in an ornate dress and robes.
Empress - Queen Leene
Emperor - King Guardia XXXIII
Hierophant -Belthasar
Lovers - Crono & Marle
Chariot - Epoch
Strength - Ayla (closing a sabertooth tigers mouth)
Hermit -Gaspar
Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate
Justice - Frog w/ Masamune and Hero's Medal
Hanged Man - Robo in Fiona's Shrine
Death - Lavos, with Crono's soul floating before it.
Temperance - Melchior                                     
Devil - Magus                                                         
Tower - Zeal falling Mammon Machine in the background                           
Star - Marle w/ Pendant                                     
Moon - Black Omen               
Sun - Lucca w/ Sun Stone                                     
Judgement - The Chrono Trigger
World - The World... hello... the planet itself was a part of the game!

ACE CARDS

Ace of Swords - Ruby Knife
Ace of Wands - Gate Key
Ace of Cups - Zeal Sapling/Future Seed
Ace of Pentacles - Rainbow Shell

COURT CARDS

King of Swords- Masa & Mune 
Queen of Swords- Queen Zeal
Knight of Swords- Slash
Page of Swords- Dalton

King of Wands- Spekkio
Queen of Wands- Lara, Lucca's mom or Gina, Crono's mom Why? Because the Queen of Wands is a woman, fondness of nature or of the home, attraction, command, someone who is well liked or honorable
Knight of Wands- Flea
Page of Wands- Jetbike Johnny

King of Pentacles- Ozzie
Queen of Pentacles- Azala
Knight of Pentacles- Yakra
Page of Pentacles- Gato

King of Cups- Cyrus
Queen of Cups- Princess Nadia
Knight of Cups- Kino
Page of Cups- Janus
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 07, 2011, 10:09:30 pm
OK, it looks like these are set in stone, unless someone else wants to voice an opinion:

High Priestess
Empress
Lovers
Chariot
Strength
Wheel of Fortune
Justice
Death
Temperance
Devil
Tower
Star
Sun
Judgment
World
Ace of Swords
Ace of Wands
Ace of Pentacles
Ace of Cups
King of Swords
Knight of Swords
Page of Swords
Knight of Wands
King of Pentacles
King of Cups
Knight of Cups
Page of Cups

(I have a few things to say about the Court Card ideas for later & I think it may be wise to give us some leeway there in case we decide something drastic.)

We have plenty of solid choices! I think that as long as we have this whole forum to play with, we may as well start threads for these cards based on the template idea so that people can post their picture progress and discuss whatever needs discussing; perhaps each of us "Tarot Doctors" (xcalibur, Lady Marle, rushingwind, and myself) could take a set of five and work from there as time allows? Thoughts?
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 07, 2011, 10:51:42 pm
Meanwhile, Lady Marle, can you give us your reasons for the following choices as a starting-point for discussion?

Fool
Magician
Emperor
Hierophant
Hermit
Hanged Man
The Moon

(Restricting this to the Major Arcana for now so we can get those underway.)

If you can contrast your choices with the ones that were previously discussed, I think that would help us get going quickly! I'm sure one of us could provide a little summary of the issues involved with each card if you don't want to go back and dig through pages of back-and-forth.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 08, 2011, 07:59:58 am
Noticing the way you wrote "Tarot Doctors" my brain somehow interpreted as you not being fond of the term.  :P If you folks don't like it we can always change it.

At first I was confused about having Cyrus as the King of Cups (thought he'd make a better Knight of Swords, but I guess Slash deserves the position), but looking over it again I've grown fond of the balance -- Flea and Slash as Knight cards of Wands and Swords, while Ozzie and Cyrus as Kings of Pentacles and Cups respectively. Strangely enough, we can actually draw a story line here.

Question: Drawing Flea, where do we position the wand? He doesn't have any.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Manly Man on December 08, 2011, 01:25:49 pm
You don't realize how hard it was for me to not laugh at that last line. Just saying.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 09, 2011, 03:09:14 am
Not at all, "Tarot Doctors" works just fine. =D

As to the Swords vs. Cups question, I endorsed the proposal largely because, well... the Swords are a harsh suit. They're affiliated with Air and the intellect, and the King of Swords' association with arbitration and justice matches Masa & Mune very well (they are, after all, almost elemental beings, and ones which chose their master based on his fitness). The Cups suit is generally linked to emotion, caring, wisdom, and imagination. To me that's a better match for the courtly Cyrus and his role in the lives of Glenn, Leene, and the kingdom.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Katie Skyye on December 09, 2011, 01:33:31 pm
You don't realize how hard it was for me to not laugh at that last line. Just saying.

:|
:I
:S
:)
XD

Pffhahahahahahaha!!!
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on December 10, 2011, 01:57:15 am
Not at all, "Tarot Doctors" works just fine. =D

Indeed, it suits me well.

Quote
As to the Swords vs. Cups question, I endorsed the proposal largely because, well... the Swords are a harsh suit. They're affiliated with Air and the intellect, and the King of Swords' association with arbitration and justice matches Masa & Mune very well (they are, after all, almost elemental beings, and ones which chose their master based on his fitness). The Cups suit is generally linked to emotion, caring, wisdom, and imagination. To me that's a better match for the courtly Cyrus and his role in the lives of Glenn, Leene, and the kingdom.

I agree. The association with air & intellect is yet another match. Mune is about knowledge, but they also rely on "wind power" attacks in the battles (tornado techs, slash, also "storing up tornado energy" to release the powerful vacuum wave). and they let you ride the winds to leave the mountain.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 10, 2011, 02:31:28 pm
You don't realize how hard it was for me to not laugh at that last line. Just saying.
XD I'm glad someone did.

With the exception of Fool, Magician, Emperor, Hierophant, Hermit, Hanged Man and The Moon, until Lady Marle has some input, feel free to begin making threads for the major Arcana (is Page of Cups / Janus set in stone? If so, feel free to make that thread too) and we can begin discussion on the individual cards. I'm having a writer's / artist's block at the time being, but I'll cope up.

Okay, symbolism time! (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,8974.msg212185.html#msg212185) (Dammit, we need Saj on this!) Now, regarding the Janus art:

First question: Where do we place the cups symbol? (No innuendos this time, unless you have a very wicked mind, you pervert you...) I've tried various ideas, including having a background, but no luck.

Second question: Besides Janus' attire, what color scheme would fit here? The theme of the card itself brings Glaucous to mind.  Gentleness brings the color Powder Blue, Sweetness brings Amber to mind (which is also significantly related to "children" or "youth"), selfishness being Davy's Grey. Create, however, is an outburst of rainbow colors, especially highly saturated and illuminated colors.

Third question: What kind of background and design are we thinking about?

Fourth question: I can't figure out what to do with his right hand.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on December 10, 2011, 06:27:37 pm
You don't realize how hard it was for me to not laugh at that last line. Just saying.
XD I'm glad someone did.

With the exception of Fool, Magician, Emperor, Hierophant, Hermit, Hanged Man and The Moon, until Lady Marle has some input, feel free to begin making threads for the major Arcana (is Page of Cups / Janus set in stone? If so, feel free to make that thread too) and we can begin discussion on the individual cards. I'm having a writer's / artist's block at the time being, but I'll cope up.

Okay, symbolism time! (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,8974.msg212185.html#msg212185) (Dammit, we need Saj on this!) Now, regarding the Janus art:

First question: Where do we place the cups symbol? (No innuendos this time, unless you have a very wicked mind, you pervert you...) I've tried various ideas, including having a background, but no luck.

Second question: Besides Janus' attire, what color scheme would fit here? The theme of the card itself brings Glaucous to mind.  Gentleness brings the color Powder Blue, Sweetness brings Amber to mind (which is also significantly related to "children" or "youth"), selfishness being Davy's Grey. Create, however, is an outburst of rainbow colors, especially highly saturated and illuminated colors.

Third question: What kind of background and design are we thinking about?

Fourth question: I can't figure out what to do with his right hand.

I believe that Page of Cups - Janus is set in stone, unless someone else has a different idea. but I strongly believe that it's the best fit.

also, Janus would most likely be holding a cup imo, like the rider-waite illustration.

I'm not a graphic artist, but I would like to have input on the creative process. I might even do very rough drawings to show my ideas at times.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 10, 2011, 07:14:09 pm
As time permits (probably beginning tomorrow), I'll begin making some threads!
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 02:45:39 am
also, Janus would most likely be holding a cup imo, like the rider-waite illustration.
Holding a cup sounds a little too simple, though... Then again, I'd like to know your input on this:

(http://i.imgur.com/QdWfS.jpg)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on December 11, 2011, 05:23:29 am
I like where you're going with it so far.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 05:27:34 am
I like where you're going with it so far.
Yeah, but what about the cup? XD I'm out of ideas. I've seldom dabbled into decor-designs that Laverinne excels at.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: alfadorredux on December 11, 2011, 09:07:46 am
Hmmm... The first thing that comes to mind for me is to have it falling in midair as though he dropped it when he raised his off-hand to pet Alfador (it might also be in the process of tipping over and spilling, although I'm not sure what that does to the symbolism). If he has to be holding it, the only place is in the crook of the arm not filled with kitten, and that would look a bit crowded/peculiar/silly.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 09:22:40 am
I tried the mid-fall thing, looked bad. Added a bird clutching the cup, ruined the "sad gaze of uncertainty" effect. So...

Crook of the arm... you mean like this?

(http://i.imgur.com/HzBON.jpg)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: alfadorredux on December 11, 2011, 10:02:37 am
That actually works better than what I had envisioned.  :D
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 03:25:57 pm
Another questions: Would you guys prefer "illustration style" art (http://konachan.com/image/ffa7790ba4a2e1d63d8c6f0b2a5a6536/Konachan.com%20-%2071977%20clamp%20dress%20flowers%20ichihara_yuuko%20mokona%20tree%20xxxholic.jpg), Cel-Shade (http://tushantin.deviantart.com/art/Awakening-of-De-Faye-149891039), or deeper painting like this (http://i.imgur.com/Y21yC.jpg)?

EDIT: Sorry, fixed it. Somehow it didn't attach the file... So yeah, choose your poison, people.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on December 11, 2011, 03:43:23 pm
Another questions: Would you guys prefer "illustration style" art (http://konachan.com/image/ffa7790ba4a2e1d63d8c6f0b2a5a6536/Konachan.com%20-%2071977%20clamp%20dress%20flowers%20ichihara_yuuko%20mokona%20tree%20xxxholic.jpg), Cel-Shade (http://tushantin.deviantart.com/art/Awakening-of-De-Faye-149891039), or deeper painting like this (http://i.imgur.com/Y21yC.jpg)?

EDIT: Sorry, fixed it. Somehow it didn't attach the file... So yeah, choose your poison, people.

Ha ha ha, you beat me in my favorite characterís card (Itís my entire fault for neglecting my responsibilities)!!!!I love the concept you are developing Ö I attach a few quick sketches I did based on your idea (they have a thousand mistakes, though). The idea would be portraying a teenager Janus or a kid Janus (either way works for me)? My personal color choice would be illustration style or a deeper painter style, like the one of the artists you mentioned a while ago. Is there a chance I could contribute with the coloring of this particular card =)?

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/File:Janus_sketches.jpg.html
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 03:45:46 pm
I also like what you're doing with it! The clothing looks very Zealian, & in general Janus very much looks the part of the Page of Cups. =D He looks mournful and wistful.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 11, 2011, 03:47:06 pm
Also, we'll see what happens, but I'm hoping to knock out quite a few threads in the next few days. Anyone should feel free to chime in with their own sources, or make new threads themselves.

Apologies again to tushantin for accidentally ignoring his explicit instructions XD
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Manly Man on December 11, 2011, 03:47:15 pm
I imagine that the illustration would be best. It leaves the most options available when it comes to getting both the color and imagery done just right.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 03:52:27 pm
@Angerona: I'm so sorry!  :cry: I didn't know you wanted to do this one. You can take over if you like. I'll PM you the lineart. Of course, if you'd prefer your sketches instead, well... it's a challenge!  8)

Apologies again to tushantin for accidentally ignoring his explicit instructions XD
Okay, now I seriously feel you're trolling me! XD (The instructions have changed based on the alignment, and may again later) (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,9601.msg211625.html)

@Manly Man: Hah, looks like illustration's ahead. Let's see what others choose, then we'll go with that.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on December 11, 2011, 04:05:40 pm
@Angerona: I'm so sorry!  :cry: I didn't know you wanted to do this one. You can take over if you like. I'll PM you the lineart. Of course, if you'd prefer your sketches instead, well... it's a challenge!  8)

Apologies again to tushantin for accidentally ignoring his explicit instructions XD
Okay, now I seriously feel you're trolling me! XD (The instructions have changed based on the alignment, and may again later) (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,9601.msg211625.html)


@Manly Man: Hah, looks like illustration's ahead. Let's see what others choose, then we'll go with that.


Ha ha ha, please donít worry, you are doing an excellent job ! I think it would be much better if we develop this together as co-workers (I have been wanting to collaborate with you in an artwork for a long time ^^), so please keep working on it and I will do the same and let's exchange ideas! Also  I will start working with sketches of the other cards that have been settled already =) as well (slowly because I still have some work to do this week but I will do my best not to neglect the project again! ).
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 04:10:58 pm
(I'm actually glad people like the Sherwani idea; indeed, they look very much Zealian.)

Awesome! I may not have time tomorrow, though, coz a status report is pending, but we'll take it.

BTW, what tools do you use? I ask because it'll be easier to share files. Vector? Sai?
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on December 11, 2011, 04:15:49 pm
I usually ink and do the gray-scale coloring with Sai and add colors an effects in Photoshop   :wink:, but I can use illustrator as well.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 04:33:03 pm
Fine, choose your pick.  :P Sai or Illustrator. I'd prefer Sai for more control, but Illustrator because it's vector so high-res.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on December 11, 2011, 04:48:13 pm
Fine, choose your pick.  :P Sai or Illustrator. I'd prefer Sai for more control, but Illustrator because it's vector so high-res.

If itís for the line art only I would say letís try with Sai (with a very high resolution)and see how things work out (I believe Sai has an option for using vectors with the linework layers so maybe we could use it  =)).
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Angerona on December 11, 2011, 05:15:59 pm
I'm leaving for today but I promise to stay in touch  :wink:!
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 11, 2011, 05:26:47 pm
Aye, Sai it is! :D
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on December 12, 2011, 05:23:53 pm
Hey RushingWind, if you are still game to do the poetic summaries, I saved a spot for them in the threads I made. =D
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: rushingwind on December 14, 2011, 04:55:20 am
Hey RushingWind, if you are still game to do the poetic summaries, I saved a spot for them in the threads I made. =D

I am still very interested, but at the moment I am stretched so thin that I don't know if I can be considered reliable. :( I'll have a better idea on my ability to keep up with this project in about a week.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 14, 2011, 07:28:16 am
Hey RushingWind, if you are still game to do the poetic summaries, I saved a spot for them in the threads I made. =D

I am still very interested, but at the moment I am stretched so thin that I don't know if I can be considered reliable. :( I'll have a better idea on my ability to keep up with this project in about a week.
Nonsense! You'll always be reliable. And the project isn't going anywhere; finish whatever's stretching you then come join us elastics too.  :D Feel free to contribute however you like when you're free.

Don't worry! Have a cookie.

(http://picture.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/3665/funny_cat_pictures_358.jpg) (http://www.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/3665/funny-animals-pictures/rabbit-eating-cookies.html)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 14, 2011, 01:07:06 pm
Does anyone object to removing "The" from the cards titles? It's weird having "The" all over the place, even if it's designed all fancy.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LAXJPlpD4k)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: rushingwind on December 25, 2011, 03:35:12 am
Thank you, Tushantin, heh.

I'm afraid that for the foreseeable future, I'm just simply not going to have the time to write these little poetic intros, even though I really want to (and by foreseeable future, I mean for many months). If a few months down the line, the project is still moving along slowly, perhaps I can return at that time. However, if someone else would like to step up in the meantime and write it, they are more than welcome to.

It's just not fair for me to commit when I can't actually devote the time to it. :(
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on December 25, 2011, 05:07:54 am
Don't worry, RushingWind, we'll cover for you until you're able to return. Just take care of those important businesses. Things can be hard sometimes.

In any case, by the time you're back, we'll have some neat stuff to inspire you.  :wink:

Merry Christmas, folks!
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on January 06, 2012, 03:58:18 am
I've been thinkin. The Chrono font we're using probably isn't a good idea...

Here's something else to consider. Pick your favorites (either from here or anything else you have in mind):
(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/t/i/timeless1.png) (http://www.dafont.com/timeless.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/g/o/good_times0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/good-times.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/v/e/venus_rising0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/venus-rising.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/r/o/roman_sd0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/roman-sd.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/p/a/pac_libertas0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/pac-libertas.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/s/t/stony_island_nf0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/stony-island-nf.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton_sans1.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton-sans.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/c/o/colwell0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/colwell.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/k/e/kells_sd0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/kells-sd.font)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Sajainta on January 06, 2012, 05:24:20 am
(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton_sans1.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton-sans.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/c/o/colwell0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/colwell.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/k/e/kells_sd0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/kells-sd.font)

Those are my four favourites.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on January 07, 2012, 02:38:17 pm
(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/b/o/bolton_sans1.png) (http://www.dafont.com/bolton-sans.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/c/o/colwell0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/colwell.font)

(http://www.dafont.com/img/preview/k/e/kells_sd0.png) (http://www.dafont.com/kells-sd.font)

Those are my four favourites.
That's some fantastic taste, Saj!  :D

What do others feel?
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: alfadorredux on January 07, 2012, 08:47:58 pm
Hmm. I'd probably go with Bolton as the least problematic from among your selectionsóthe others are variously too narrow, too spindly, too blocky, poorly kerned, have variable-width lines whose thinnest points are too thin, or are just plain not to my taste.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on January 08, 2012, 05:45:10 am
Hah! Bolton it is then! Very well, let's stick to it then. (Syna and xcalibur, speak up! I ain't gonna be around forever, ya know)
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Syna on January 09, 2012, 02:55:27 am
I also like Bolton. It's the most legible & clearest without being too frilly.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on January 09, 2012, 07:38:44 pm
Indeed, Bolton is the most balanced font that still captures the right feel. We'll stick with that.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on January 22, 2012, 03:39:28 pm
Still curious: Anybody object to the removal of "The" from card titles?
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: xcalibur on January 23, 2012, 01:22:25 am
I don't object. it's a bit redundant in this context.
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on February 08, 2012, 09:53:13 am
Just a note for the team. I haven't been able to contribute as of late because my UPS is in repairs, and I can't wager my hardware and data on the inconsistency of power situations in my city (we have uncountable unannounced blackouts and fluctuations), but as soon as I'm back I'll lay in newer designs. Until then, any artist fancying to take control of their favorite card, make yourselves at home!

EDIT: In the mean time, check this out! http://www.shadowscapes.com/Tarot/
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: Kodokami on August 15, 2018, 11:16:12 pm
I found a Pixiv user who put together a Chrono tarot project of their own a few years back. Maybe some good ideas or inspiration in here.

https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=42571645

https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=42571830
Title: Re: General Tarot Discussion thread
Post by: tushantin on August 15, 2018, 11:54:11 pm
Nice find! Man, that's a really good card overlay design.

That said, I'll make a mental note to drop by again in the weekends and start Tarot art. I'd really like to finish this project within the year.