Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: GenesisOne on August 20, 2009, 11:25:28 pm
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Recently, I happened upon this article about Chrono Trigger DS:
http://www.pressthebuttons.com/2008/07/chrono-trigger.html
I don't know about you, but I very much enjoyed the new and semi-challenging Dimensional Vortexes and the Singing Mountain dungeon.
Still, how does this port of a past (and still amazing) Square-Enix game speak for the company's PR image?
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Meh, just an angry d-bag who was expecting too much. It's an enhanced remake akin to the GBA ports (a little better actually because of added story content)...The PSX port was the lazy one. They could have done better, but I see the enhanced remakes as kind of being SE testing the waters.
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In what ways do you believe the PSX port was lazy?
The anime cut-scenes (though not entirely canon) are far from what I would classify as "lazy."
As for SE testing the waters, I've seen their schedule of upcoming releases, and their yields shows that they still think the water's too cold.
Hitman 5 (What did the first four fail to provide the player?)
Final Fantasy XIII (Another one!?)
Dragon Quest X (Catching up to their FF cousin)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers (Sequel, or port make-over?)
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Like most of the PSX ports (idk about Origins though, to be fair), they basically just slapped the ROM onto the disk (resulting in those pesky load times everyone complains about and also sub-par sound quality). I was ok with the anime sequences, but their apparent lack of ability to stick with the original designs certainly threw me off. Then there was the rest of the added content which was completely useless as you had to basically beat the game to get at any of it and even then you only had access to it from the menu screen.
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Not to mention they pretty much had Toriyama rip off his DBZ character design for the cut scenes.
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Maybe the underlings in charge of the animation only saw the chibi versions from the Japanese cover art and their heads exploded so they just went with what they knew instead. :lol:
Still no excuse for what they did to human Glenn.
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Like most of the PSX ports (idk about Origins though, to be fair)
Origins is a full-on rewrite. It's probably what the PSP re-re-re-re-re-re-re-releases of FF1 and FF2 were based off of, though.
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Somone just wanted too much from it, just like the majority of Smash Bros' so called "hardcore fans" that got pissed when they realized the site showed them everything Brawl had to offer.
The DS port was a good one. PS not so much(although I still would say get simply cause it's Chrono, but that's ME).
As for all their comments about Cross being crap and not worthy. You don't know Cross if you're calling it unworthy. Not as good as Radical Dreamers but that doesn't mean bad.
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Still no excuse for what they did to human Glenn.
I thought Glenn just went Super Saiyan for the knighting scene...?
It's awesome that SE got Masato Kato back to write the extra plot bits for CT:DS (it was Kato, right? I'm not sure whether that was confirmed). If that's true, seems to me that the "we can't get everybody together right now" argument against producing a Chrono sequel loses some credibility. I suppose it depends on who you think the critical members of the Chrono Trigger production team were.
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Either that or (not likely though)he literally meant EVERYBODY. Everyone from the creators ending, all those people to come back together.
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Not to mention they pretty much had Toriyama rip off his DBZ character design for the cut scenes.
To be fair, Toriyama is only capable of drawing like four types of faces (I have been reading Dr. Slump lately, and he makes fun of himself regarding this in a chapter where a young girl impersonates her professor by wearing makeup).
But yes, cutscene Glenn did not resemble the long-haired sprite.
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The DS version is the definitive way to play Chrono Trigger, very polished, and not at all lazy. The cutscenes run at a higher frame rate than the PSX version, no load times, the translation is more 1:1 to the original Japanese text making it far superior for canonical purposes once you get over your nostalgia, it has extra content (lost sanctum could have been better), and adds a new ending that further ties the game to Cross. Also the extra content is optional, so you can just ignore it and get the original experience if that is what you desire. I recommend this version above all others as it is to this day available new on amazon if you don't mind paying 60 bucks (still cheaper than an SNES cart) and you can find it pretty cheap used.
The PS1 or PSN version works if you have no other way to play and has the original english translation, but damn them load times! They also butchered certain tracks and some of the sound effects seem off compared to its DS and SNES counterparts. You can get this version new physically for 17 USD on amazon if you so desire.
The SNES version I can only recommend if you already have it or you are collecting. Plays way better than the PSX version and gameplay wise is exactly the same, but without the annoying load times. The only reason it is hard to recommend is because it is so expensive, albeit not that hard to find on ebay.
The mobile and PC versions are just Square putting the game on current hardware so people can still buy it. Both versions have less content than the DS version overall, but all the extra story content is there as well as the new translation. However due to a few gameplay hindering bugs, I still cannot recommend buying them over the DS version despite being much cheaper.
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SNES is in my opinion, the best way to first experience the game. Either download the ROM or get it on eBay if you have the money. Despite having a sometimes wacky translation, it's charming and has superior sound quality compared to the PSX and DS. Chrono Trigger never needed any changes or extra content to be more perfect from my standards, this is the version to play.
Avoid the PSX version. It's haunted by sound quality worse than the DS, terrible anime cutscenes, and tons and tons of lag. Plus, a fourth composer translated every single song from the SNES over from memory, resulting in lots of missed/wrong notes. Plus, the PSX and DS can't render the SNES synthwaves correctly, as a result they butcher the Undersea Palace, Zeal Palace, and Last Battle themes.
DS is the best remaster/port of the game, but the lower sound quality, poorly designed Lost Sanctum, and rehashing the cringeworthy cutscenes and force-feeding you them when you turn the game on even if you turn them off in your save file all hurt.
Mobile is alright, but lacks any of the extra PSX/DS bonus menus, has a strange text font, forces the anime cutscenes (but you can skip them), and was retroactively given the smoothing steam filter over everything.
The PC version still has some gameplay-hindering bugs, has some of the extra menus but not all of them, copies the DS font instead of using a more readable/nicer looking one, and force-feeds you the terrible anime cutscenes.
From worst to best, PSX, PC/Mobile, DS, SNES.
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terrible anime cutscenes
I'm curious as to why you think they're so terrible.
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I like the anime cutscenes and grew up with the SNES version. Still feel DS is the best way to play the game and the sound differences are minimal by comparison. I noticed a few, and they did not seem that bad. No where near like Lavos is suggesting. Also if you turn off the cutscenes and ignore the lost sanctum/arena, you are basically just playing the SNES version with a more accurate translation. You can even immediately skip with the press of a button the opening montage if you hate it that much, so it really does not force it on you at all.
The PSX version did butcher the soundtrack though, as all they did was slap the rom on a PSX disc instead of doing a proper port. Still better than the PC version though because last I checked, save points are still bugged and can only be approached from the top. This makes a large number of them broken and is a far greater crime than anything the PSX version puts you through.
Lost sanctum was trash and the area of ages was meh, but Dimensional Vortex was good IMO on the DS as far as the extra content goes. I also really liked the epilogue ending that was provided, despite the Dream Devourer himself being lack luster overall.
The only scenario where I feel the SNES version would be superior from a completely objective standpoint and outside of nostalgia would be if you MUST have the original translation (which would be for nostalgia anyway) or you MUST play on a big screen. In that case, the SNES version would be the best way to play.
Also by saying the DS version is the best way to play overall does not make the SNES version any less of an experience, so do not get me wrong. But given that it is a truly solid port that offers an expansion to the canonical lore of the franchise with OPTIONAL extra content, I find it hard not to rank it on top personally.
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There are a few spots where the new translation adds some actual clarity (most notably, fixing Gaspar's "Find this person...fast." line) but for the most part I find it rather dry, and in places, terribly stilted.
Check out the attachments for an example. "You must stop my lady mother!" Who speaks with such formality during an emergency? This is potentially the end of the world we're talking about, not some petty foofaraw at court.
Another example:
When the disaster struck, an eerie black portal
materialized before young Lord Janus. Melchior tried
to save the boy prince, but succeeded only in getting
himself dragged in as well.
Good thing he clarifies that it's "young" Lord Janus he's talking about, or we might have thought he meant that other Lord Janus. And just to remove any ambiguity, he further clarifies that it's the boy prince, instead of the adult prince or the girl prince.
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Both translations have their perks. I loved Frog's accent and was sad to see it go for example. Some lines certainly do come across smoother with the old translation as well, but then there are others that make more sense in the DS translation as well. Like when Crono and gang party hard with Ayla, it makes much more sense that they wake up hung over from drinking (DS version) than it does where they wake up with a "tummy ache" from eating too much (SNES version). Over all the translation preferences are mostly subjective outside of a few examples however, and I feel nostalgia plays into that. And that is totally fine, no one is taking anything away from the SNES translation.
I guess the way I look at it is if anything is contradictory between the two translations as far as canon, the DS translation would be the correct one automatically as it is a more 1:1 conversion of the original Japanese script, and therefore more in line with the creator's vision. This makes the DS translation better by default to me, despite my love for the SNES script.
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There are a few spots where the new translation adds some actual clarity (most notably, fixing Gaspar's "Find this person...fast." line) but for the most part I find it rather dry, and in places, terribly stilted.
Check out the attachments for an example. "You must stop my lady mother!" Who speaks with such formality during an emergency? This is potentially the end of the world we're talking about, not some petty foofaraw at court.
Another example:
When the disaster struck, an eerie black portal
materialized before young Lord Janus. Melchior tried
to save the boy prince, but succeeded only in getting
himself dragged in as well.
Good thing he clarifies that it's "young" Lord Janus he's talking about, or we might have thought he meant that other Lord Janus. And just to remove any ambiguity, he further clarifies that it's the boy prince, instead of the adult prince or the girl prince.
Personally, in those cases I feel they're just speaking with formality. Which makes sense when one is a princess and the other is a village elder. As for who would speak with such formality in an emergency... well, how do you know Schala wouldn't? How many emergencies has she been present for to believe that the habit of formal speech should've long been suppressed. This is likely the just the first she's actively involved with. The time to say just one more word is at most just a fraction of a second of time more than without.
Complaining he overly describes Janus out of formality feels more like nitpicking, as well.
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Steam save bug got fixed, but there's still bugs preventing you from seeing how much items cost.
The anime cutscenes are terrible because they are often forced upon you, defy the original designs, (Look at how they butchered Lavos. Barely any spikes. No eye, no intimidating, red, spiral-y mouth textures. Instead they made him look like a dried sponge with a rim of spikes... And in that cutscene they also made Janus smile while telling Crono he was going to die... So out of character and random)
Plus the rehashed, uncreative Toriyama designs really stand out, especially with Glenn.
They honestly DID fix a lot with the translation and I'll give credit where credit is due. But I dislike the renaming of some enemies and some items... Things like "Ruminator" are still much more intimidating than "Hydraconda". (However the "heal" item being renamed was appreciated, lol) It also reads much more like a written script while the SNES translation felt more like natural spoken words for the most part. I was fine with Frog's accent leaving too, that is actually a big improvement on the DS' part. Dimensional Vortex was fun too, I agree. Nice having some new hard bosses, too. And the ending was sad and interesting.
I just really dislike them slapping the anime cutscene on you first because it really ruins the simplicity pendulum intro by forcing something else in front of it, and even a quick tap or button press still is rather annoying. The sound differences aren't as noticeable, except for when the synths are off or PSX samples are being used instead of more SNES-like ones.
Seriously, listen to the DS and the SNES versions of Zeal, Undersea, and Last Battle and tell me the DS didn't butcher the synths. Honestly, check out Mathew Valente's video on the SNES-PSX-DS music comparisons, it is very interesting and can help give you a lot more insight onto this stuff.
The big screen is actually VERY appreciated from my standing. I don't like having to cram my focus to a small screen to see what's going on.
I also talked to a few people in the past about this topic, so I'll share what they have to say.
One person I know played a version of the game with the DS translation, then went back and played the PSX, and actually preferred the old translation. I don't actually know why, but I think it's interesting how the "better" translation is immediately cast aside by an unbiased opinion about the game. Another person I know would vouch for the SNES as the best because it's best to see how something was originally meant to be made first, even if something later is said to improve on it. Would you rather watch the original Star Wars trilogy or the later rerelease with unnecessary "improvements" by the creators?
Both translations have their strengths and faults, and I'm not sure if I would be able to choose one if I really had to. But comparing is interesting. Anyone else have anything to add about that, I'm invested and interested in this conversation.
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Steam save bug got fixed, but there's still bugs preventing you from seeing how much items cost.
The anime cutscenes are terrible because they are often forced upon you, defy the original designs, (Look at how they butchered Lavos. Barely any spikes. No eye, no intimidating, red, spiral-y mouth textures. Instead they made him look like a dried sponge with a rim of spikes... And in that cutscene they also made Janus smile while telling Crono he was going to die... So out of character and random)
Plus the rehashed, uncreative Toriyama designs really stand out, especially with Glenn.
They honestly DID fix a lot with the translation and I'll give credit where credit is due. But I dislike the renaming of some enemies and some items... Things like "Ruminator" are still much more intimidating than "Hydraconda". (However the "heal" item being renamed was appreciated, lol) It also reads much more like a written script while the SNES translation felt more like natural spoken words for the most part. I was fine with Frog's accent leaving too, that is actually a big improvement on the DS' part. Dimensional Vortex was fun too, I agree. Nice having some new hard bosses, too. And the ending was sad and interesting.
I just really dislike them slapping the anime cutscene on you first because it really ruins the simplicity pendulum intro by forcing something else in front of it, and even a quick tap or button press still is rather annoying. The sound differences aren't as noticeable, except for when the synths are off or PSX samples are being used instead of more SNES-like ones.
Seriously, listen to the DS and the SNES versions of Zeal, Undersea, and Last Battle and tell me the DS didn't butcher the synths. Honestly, check out Mathew Valente's video on the SNES-PSX-DS music comparisons, it is very interesting and can help give you a lot more insight onto this stuff.
The big screen is actually VERY appreciated from my standing. I don't like having to cram my focus to a small screen to see what's going on.
I also talked to a few people in the past about this topic, so I'll share what they have to say.
One person I know played a version of the game with the DS translation, then went back and played the PSX, and actually preferred the old translation. I don't actually know why, but I think it's interesting how the "better" translation is immediately cast aside by an unbiased opinion about the game. Another person I know would vouch for the SNES as the best because it's best to see how something was originally meant to be made first, even if something later is said to improve on it. Would you rather watch the original Star Wars trilogy or the later rerelease with unnecessary "improvements" by the creators?
Both translations have their strengths and faults, and I'm not sure if I would be able to choose one if I really had to. But comparing is interesting. Anyone else have anything to add about that, I'm invested and interested in this conversation.
This is a fair post, although I feel like you are letting the cutscenes get to you a little more than they should, especially the opening. Glenn's original design was definitely butchered though, I will give you that. My only real complaint is how out of place they are, but as something that can be turned off I just enjoyed them for what they were. I still lol when I have them on and Frog cuts open the mountain twice. The ending cutscene (Glenn excluded) I feel was very well done overall. TBH they could have probably done with the opening and ending scene being the only two in the game.
As for someone going back and likeing the old translation better, it is still a subjective thing even when nostalgia is not a factor. I just feel a lot of the time it is a key factor. However neither version is objectively "bad", I just tend to side with the more accurate translation. I am someone who hates localization changes, so for me the DS wins out, which is why I called it objectively better. They both have quality writing though, to the point where "objectively" is used very loosely to begin with.
Glad to hear they fixed the save point issue. It was honestly the biggest issue that still remained. Chrono Trigger is not a hard game, but if you did die at the wrong time, it would suck going back potentially three save points because of said bug.
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Well, as someone who is known as Lavos, Lavos being butchered in the cutscenes does hurt a bit, haha. I honestly dislike the opening but the ending scene, apart from Glenn is fantastic, and the music medley is good too.
I'd honestly love to hold a poll to see opinions about the translations to see who prefers what and why at some point.
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Well, I do know the Steam port has a Ted Woosley dialogue mod.