Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Time, Space, and Dimensions => Topic started by: Cous on August 02, 2009, 12:56:00 pm
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So, if I understood all well, Time Bastard and TTI theories say this :
Let's take Crono.
If Crono departs from 1000AD to go to 600AD, he creates a new timeline.
In this new timeline, a new version of himself, a Time Bastard, will grow up and will finally disappear when his personnal age will reach the age of the original Crono when this one traveled in the past.
Indeed, it's said in the Compendium that the disappearance of a Time Bastard is based on his/her/its personnal time (espacially for Kid's pendant).
Thanks to this, we can imagine a scenario in which a Time Bastard travels to the future.
In our example, let's say that Crono traveled from 1000AD to 600AD when he was 18. So that, his Time Bastard will live in the new timeline during 18 years before he fataly disappears. But it's not impossible that this Time Bastard, when he is only 16, travels through time as well !!
If he goes in the future : OK ! I will live here during 2 years and then disappear...
But now, what happens if this Time Bastard, before he dissapears, travels in the past and change history ?
Let's say that the Time Bastard of Crono, before his disappearance, travels to 300 AD !
What happens to him ?
And what happens to the original Crono supposed to arrive later in 600AD due to Time Traveler's Immunity ??
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Well, the Time Bastard will travel and create a new time line, just like the original did. His entry to 300 AD is now TTI-protected, but still will disappear after some time since he is still a Time Bastard.
Now, depending on what he does before the deadline it will determine what does the original Crono will find in 600 AD, since TTI makes him appear in 600 AD regardless of what happens.
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So if we follow the history of the original Crono, he would depart from his own era, and then he would arrive in a past which is not the past of the timeline he comes from.
He will arrive in a past which was created by another version of himself that he created by the fact he time travelled !!
This can lead to very strange and extremely complicated scenarios :o...........
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Ah, now the real conundrum is what if a Time Bastard travels to the DBT in a manner similar to Serge & Squad and, while there, their time runs out? Could they, like Serge, "run away" and break out into the real world again? Or would they suddenly become trapped there?
Indeed, if the DBT counts as removing matter/information from the real world, then wouldn't Serge travelling to the DBT effectively "destroy" matter?
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I found another issue about Time Bastard in Chrono Trigger DS (although it's not really related to my previous question...).
Here it is :
In the Lost Sanctum, Crono first places a blue stone in the village in 65 000 000 BC.
After that, he goes in 600 AD to pick up the stone in this era and then goes back in 65 000 000 BC to have 2 stones. So here we agree to say that the stone from the prehistoric era is a Time Bastard, and the stone which comes from 600 AD is the original one. (It's like the blue vest and the blue plate for instance)
Then, Crono fuses the 2 stones to create a big stone ! Hum...well, ok. In this case, half of this big stone is a Time Bastard and should disappear in 65 000 600 years. Actually, the big stone should morph back in a simple blue stone....
But it's not the case !!!
Because after that, Crono leaves the big stone in 65 000 000 BC to pick it up then in 600 AD, when the sun charged it in power !
How could we explain that ??
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:(
Trying to resist saying something like, "oh, it's hastily-made bonus content, it doesn't count..."
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That does sound like a plothole :( Although, perhaps the non-Time Bastard part was charged so much (65 million years on its own + 65 million years with its clone) that even if one half disappears the other half still had accumulated enough power to look powered-up on its own.
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Ooo, that's a good one, Cous.
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I'm not sure how would that work, indeed a plothole. Unless that by merging into a new object, it looses the TB, but that can't be since the stone would still be there, maybe not like itself but as part of the new object.
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I'm not sure how would that work, indeed a plothole.
Only a plothole under TB. Discard TB, and the plothole goes away.
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The possibility of new fan theory perhaps? It must be something about conversion of matter.
:(
Trying to resist saying something like, "oh, it's hastily-made bonus content, it doesn't count..."
Kato was the one who supervise it. I tend to think it must be something to do with Chrono Brake's concept or theory. Who know what is up in his mind?
And to be honest I don't think this can be called plothole generally, but in regard of fandom ''overanalysis''. TB,TTI and PD are the best example.
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Well, there goes Time Bastard. The entire idea is shot when you add in the DS bonus content. Unless normal time traveling laws do not exist in side that pocket dimension, for what ever reason. The magic of the place may run so thick that it some how defies all rational thought when it comes to time. It certainly would explain how the ladders in there could last for 65,000,600 years.
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Well, there goes Time Bastard. The entire idea is shot when you add in the DS bonus content. Unless normal time traveling laws do not exist in side that pocket dimension, for what ever reason. The magic of the place may run so thick that it some how defies all rational thought when it comes to time. It certainly would explain how the ladders in there could last for 65,000,600 years.
Remember Lavos has to be beaten first, then the Vortexes open (right now, don't include the Reptites'). This mean the versions of the party who did defeated Lavos, wouldn't be able to enter them.
However, since you have to load a previous save file, it could be equivalent as now taking focus on another version of the party, preferably another dimension's, who probably did visited the place (just like how the Magus in there mentions, he comes from another dimension from the party who encountered it).
It doesn't affect TB in the least.
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Yes, without adding in the reptite village, the DS bonus content makes perfect sense with Time Bastard. I assumed everyone would know i was referring only to the village part of the content. I apologize, Acacia Sgt.
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Yeah, 'DS bonus content' do covers all that. But then again, your last sentence is specifically mentioning just the Reptite place.
As for those ladders, well, they may just place new ones every now and then. The one who builds the bridge is proof enough they are capable of climbing the mountain on their own, so it's not hard to believe they would visit the mountain occasionally, and would replace the ladders when the need arises.
And if not them, then there are still those Reptites that you can fight against in there.
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Right on all points. And i do believe that there is a way around Time Bastard. As we have seen, very strong magic screws with time(Marle's Pendant, the Chrono Trigger, Haste, Slow) resulting in either time travel or the speed of time being altered in certain situations. So, what if the reaction between the two Prima Stones somehow slowed time for the newly formed Saintstone? The stone would still be affected by the physical world, as hasted and slowed characters can still be attacked and attack, yet be immune to the Time Bastard Theory, as it would exist in it's own seperate time flow.
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So, what if the reaction between the two Prima Stones somehow slowed time for the newly formed Saintstone? The stone would still be affected by the physical world, as hasted and slowed characters can still be attacked and attack, yet be immune to the Time Bastard Theory, as it would exist in it's own seperate time flow.
It is a possibility, but I think it's highly unlikely it works like that.
Even if an object's own speed is slowed or hasted, it doesn't change the passage of time around it. Overall, time doesn't really speeds or slows for it. Those type of examples, like the usage of the Haste and Slow spells, will they really affect in terms of time?
Sure, a hasted object or person would move faster, but does it ages, for example, faster as well? Or if someone is slowed, if they are hit, will the pain take longer to be felt than what it would take if not slowed?
I don't know the answer, but with what I understand of the concept, I think it's unlikely.
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I do admit that my theory is highly unlikely. However, it is all we have for the time being, unless Kato just added that in to get a laugh out of the reactions of the really devoted fans. Like the side stories in Radical Dreamers. Mick Van Jovie, anybody?
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I didn't read all the replies but I belive there is aperfectly scientific explanation . . . . that will still leave you with a question:
I think Time Bastard is only referring to the occurence at the exact point in time. So even if the the doomed time traveller travels back in time, he doesn't escape the flow of time. The reason I say you would still be left with a question, is because this somewhat validates the Time Bastard theory, in that, even if the created branch duplicate of the individual isn't outright destroyed by the original time traveller's return, the doomed duplicate must always travel back in time away from that exact point in time, being, in a way, then destroyed. Theoretically they can't even travel foward "past" (ha ha, see what I did there, but no pun ._.) the exact point in time because the theory states they must be destroyed.
Oh, I almost forgot: the branch duplicate (or original pristine non-time traveler) would need a reason to travel away from this point in time. There's is nothing in the theory to suggest the branch duplicate would have any means of attaining this information (especially without ever time traveling in the first place) hence, even though I shouldn't laugh, it being called the Time BASTARD theory ha ha ha ha. Hapless dupe.