Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: RySenkari on July 29, 2009, 10:16:23 pm
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Seeing as how the Ocean Palace Lavos is so much more powerful than the Lavos you're supposed to beat, I was really disappointed to get the Developer's Room ending for beating him in the original. I was hoping they'd add a new ending for it in the DS version, but of course we only got the one new ending.
My question is this.
Would an ending involving Schala being rescued immediately in an ending after the defeat of Ocean Palace Lavos been appropriate, or would even the non-canonical chance to save her have contradicted the true canon and Chrono Cross too much? I always figured that players who really wanted to save her before her 13,000 years of suffering should be rewarded with the chance to do so by beating up on the ultra-difficult Ocean Palace Lavos in a New Game +, but seeing as how that would've directly contradicted Chrono Cross, I know that might've stuck in a lot of craws (though nobody seems to complain about the crazy Reptite endings, etc.).
So what do you guys think? Would you have wanted a 14th ending? (Technically it would've been the 13th and the Dream Devourer/Dimensional Vortex would've been 14th) Or would this non-canonical ending be too realistic (and thus taken seriously by many as the "real" ending even though official canon contradicts it)?
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An extra ending in that moment? Absolutely yes.
I mean, if you're given a different ending by defeating Lavos at different points of the game, then why not at this point? Besides, the Ocean Palace Lavos fight is one important point to add such thing.
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Another ending? Hell yes...so long as its not one of the other various endings which are just the credits with a different background.
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It don't have to be NG+...Its supposed to be for like people that REALLY get into it (thus the quick creds, which I always thought was an especially cute element of that ending).
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Well, I mentioned New Game + because you'd REALLY have to grind to be able to beat Ocean Palace Lavos on a regular game.
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Here's the thing about an Ocean Palace ending:
Because of Chrono Trigger's unique ability to bend continuity by defying the fourth dimension, such an ending would most definetely work. The only issue is that, well, there's still more game if you wanna lose and go see it. But that's about it.
You see, beating the game there would cause time up to that point to break off from the expected path and skew into another tangent...
...most likely? You wake up somewhere in Zeal, with Schala looking after you. Up until now, she's been pretty gentle yet scared, so when this most unexpected slaughter occurs, she is simultaneously amazed and grateful: You've just saved Zeal where she could not. You've done the impossible, and Zeal will continue to soar because of it. As for the Queen? Some say she used to be okay, so with time she might actually turn back to normal.
...Janus however is an interesting case. One of two things can happen at this point.
1: Janus was still cast into the middle ages during the battle, the Prophet opens up to his family.
2: The Prophet/Magus vanishes into the future of Zeal, and nobody remembers him. Janus is unaware.
This is highly debatable of course, but changing history is changing history. In any case, stopping Lavos here and now is probably highly favorable for the Fiendlord. Almost like waking up from a long dream.
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Here's the thing about an Ocean Palace ending:
Because of Chrono Trigger's unique ability to bend continuity by defying the fourth dimension, such an ending would most definetely work. The only issue is that, well, there's still more game if you wanna lose and go see it. But that's about it.
You see, beating the game there would cause time up to that point to break off from the expected path and skew into another tangent...
...most likely? You wake up somewhere in Zeal, with Schala looking after you. Up until now, she's been pretty gentle yet scared, so when this most unexpected slaughter occurs, she is simultaneously amazed and grateful: You've just saved Zeal where she could not. You've done the impossible, and Zeal will continue to soar because of it. As for the Queen? Some say she used to be okay, so with time she might actually turn back to normal.
...Janus however is an interesting case. One of two things can happen at this point.
1: Janus was still cast into the middle ages during the battle, the Prophet opens up to his family.
2: The Prophet/Magus vanishes into the future of Zeal, and nobody remembers him. Janus is unaware.
This is highly debatable of course, but changing history is changing history. In any case, stopping Lavos here and now is probably highly favorable for the Fiendlord. Almost like waking up from a long dream.
That would be an awesome ending and a suitable reward for beating one of the game's toughest "optional" bosses. Of course, you did bring up a good point, there's still plenty of game afterwards and you'd lose out on that if you beat Lavos there, but that's the case with any of the New Game + endings anyway, and anyone who level-grinded THAT MUCH in their first playthrough would know well enough to look for that sort of information.
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"You've saved Zeal!! Though for how long remains to be seen. (This is Zeal after all.)"
Sadly, Janus was cast into a gate during your battle, as Schala tells you upon your waking up in Zeal Palace. She starts crying...
Then, Prophet comes in with Queen Zeal. She's very quiet, and Prophet just comes in like an informant, very cold. "The Queen wants to say something. Well? Go ahead."
She's still quite a bit angry, and for a moment it seems she'll attack, but then she thanks you, oddly enough. The greatest lament, she expresses, is that in this tragedy, Janus was lost. Prophet responds "..."
"...wait a minute... what's the matter with you?"
Prophet: ...n-nothing. I'll tell you later.
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As it turns out, the Meet the Staff ending is what goes on in Magus's head when you beat Lavos and wipe him from history. After he goes insane from being cast into the Darkness Beyond Time, anyway.
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I actually like the idea of that. It would reward the players who put all the effort into grinding to beat it.
It just feels like a waste to beat the hardest incarnation of Lavos, only to find out that you get an ending that you are able to get right at the start of a NG+.
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Ending #14: "The Kingdom of Zeal lives and conquers the world forevermore."
Awesome. It would be even more awesome with some moral ambiguity tossed in, like seeing some familiar NPCs (maybe Doan) slaving away under Zealian guardianship in the future. The Dream Team ending is already accessible via the telepod portal in New Game +, so now I'm kind of mystified that a "Zeal timeline" ending wasn't implemented.
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The actual ending could be called, "Zeal: A future of magic" or something like that.
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Zeal: The future that never was?
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That kicks mine.
I really wanna see this ending now. Too bad it doesn't exist...
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Ocean Palace: The ending that never was?
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Yup... I actually beat the Ocean Palace Lavos today. The developers ending isn't a big enough reward, really.
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I think the perfect non-canon 14th ending could have played out like this.....
Lavos is killed and the Ocean Palace is falling apart around you. The Queen isn't exactly happy and tries to stop your escape. Magus reveals himself and tries to fight her to buy you time. He insists on Crono and company protecting Schala on the way out. The party is confused but Schala sees the amulet just prior to a gate taking her and the party to the End of Time. Gasper greets the party and talks of how the future was saved at a terrible cost. He then sends you off to 1000 AD. The gate opens up outside of a futuristic looking Guardia Castle. It's revealed that Zeal survived and killed Magus. She too figured out who he really was during the fight and as a result has learned the true nature of your quest. When it became clear that Lavos was going to be killed Queen Zeal went ahead and unknown to the party turned up the power on the MM. Prior to the death of Lavos she has managed to suck out enough of his power and become immortal. As a result of being the most powerful person alive she has enslaved the world. As with most events in the game the script changes somewhat depending on who the other party members are but it unfolds like this:
(Note that the party members in this scene will be determined by who was with you upon fighting Lavos)
Member #1-*says something along the lines of never expecting things to change this much*
Zeal-Your fools....you thought I was wrong to use the power of Lavos for my own ends. Yet in your quest to save the primitive future that you originally came from you've gone ahead and made me the very thing you set out to stop. All the hopes and dreams that you could have experienced are gone forever! Destroyed by your very actions!
Member #2-What are we going to do Crono? (once again this will changed based on who is in your party)
At this point Crono draws his weapon and says his only line in the game:
Crono-We're going to end this once and for all!
*cue CT Main Theme and end credits*
Hell as I think about it I'm starting to imagine a fan modded CT that breaks off into this from the Lavos battle in the Ocean Palace with the true final boss being Queen Zeal. Of course it may be best to do this kind of thing as a fanfic. Wouldn't want the damn SE lawyers on your ass a second time :-/
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I wish there was a Ocean Palace Lavos ending.
Maybe by defeating Lavos at the Ocean Palace, Queen Zeal is freed from Lavos's corruption, and returns to normal.
It would be interesting to see a sane Queen Zeal.
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i answer now...
anyway....
yeah... that ... but anyone beat that new game first lavos... i hawe, and it is soo easy... but same end...
wery well... not good :I
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A thought crossed my mind. If the heroes defeated Lavos at the Ocean Palace, and Queen Zeal turned back to the way she was before this, what would happen to her?
I doubt that she would be welcome with open arms by the earthbound people, or the enlighten people. They would most certainly not let her live with them.
The earthbound would hate her for the way she treated them, and the enlighten would blame her for the destruction of Zeal, and the loss of there magic.
They might even try to kill her/and or put her on some sort of trial.
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A thought crossed my mind. If the heroes defeated Lavos at the Ocean Palace, and Queen Zeal turned back to the way she was before this, what would happen to her?
I doubt that she would be welcome with open arms by the earthbound people, or the enlighten people. They would most certainly not let her live with them.
The earthbound would hate her for the way she treated them, and the enlighten would blame her for the destruction of Zeal, and the loss of there magic.
They might even try to kill her/and or put her on some sort of trial.
I don't see how the Enlightened would hate her. Lavos gone doesn't mean Zeal is finished. They'll just be returning to their previous method of using the Planet as a power source. Sure, they may get angry, but that would be more towards the party since they destroyed what they considered a superior power source.
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If she survives and is persecuted by everyone she's ever known, then maybe she asks you if you know where the ones she remembers are important to her are. You take her to see the Gurus, starting with Melchior, then Belthasar, and finally Gaspar at The End of Time. They offer her their final bouts of wisdom, and choose to either let her stay at The End of Time or send her back to the Dark Ages to be judged- and most likely executed- by the people who remain. If you let her stay, the two of them tell the party goodbye. When they're alone, Gaspar tips his hat to the Queen and leaves, going into that blackness beyond the little station they're at, and so Queen Zeal is left to watch the End of Time just as Gaspar had.
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For me, it is a cool ending o.o
I must re-play it xD
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Well I am trying to revive the Chrono Compendium Dōjinshi Circle Project; I think that would make for an interesting subject matter.
I do have an idea I'm rolling around in my head... :D