Chrono Compendium

Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Polling => Topic started by: maggiekarp on June 28, 2009, 02:12:33 am

Title: Cross Characters
Post by: maggiekarp on June 28, 2009, 02:12:33 am
After some bored tallying, I have discovered that Chrono Cross had more characters than Chrono Trigger had armor, including character-specific ones.

I know there have been character rating polls before and "who's your favorite character" ones, but this is more of a long-running elimination sort of thing (I'll allow you to change your vote at any time). If you were to remake the story of Cross, which characters would make the cut? Why?

You are limited to 18 choices on this, but I encourage you to think about your choices and choose less. I chose 18 because of an earlier tally (I counted how many characters were missing from a crowded Cross fanart) and it is four more characters than Final Fantasy 6 had.

Note that this isn't necessarily deciding who gets cut from the plot entirely, just who should remain an NPC. I'll probably change this post as stuff comes in.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 28, 2009, 02:21:07 am
1) Not only has there been another favorite CC character poll (hey, there it is (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5458.0.html) right on page one of this very Polling forum!), but there is a whole FORUM (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?board=54.0) practically dedicated to rating the CC characters (though admittedly most are closed)...2) I think the option should just be Serge/Lynx as the playable ones are the same person. The only differences people could have with the two would be aesthetic. 3) I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Guile is Magus and he's certainly not Magil.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: maggiekarp on June 28, 2009, 02:36:12 am
1) You can only choose one character in that poll, so it isn't a roster thread dealing with a selected cast and how they would interact with each other, it's a single favorite character thread. Also, that forum has more or less served its purpose for one article, but there were many characters that members weren't present to vote for and tastes could have changed since then.
2) Some people want Serge as a playable character but not with the option of him turning into Lynx.
3) I can argue this all night, but it would be more... pleasant for me to put Guile as an option and Magil/Magus as something that can be specified with "Other".
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 28, 2009, 03:15:52 am
That's the main reason I think we should re-open the Special Event Polling threads...I mean, we already know the outcome and it would then make these separate polling threads irrelevant and it had a good judging system as well...anyways, w/e, I guess...

Serge/Lynx - Main character...maybe with a little extra space from not having a bajillion characters he would be less of a sucky character.

Kid - The other Main character...she is already superbly developed, so extra screen-time would make her even more the series gem.

Guile - Either make him Magus or else go more into the Magic Guild backstory and actually flesh out this otherwise somewhat interesting character. That backwards grid at least made him unique.

Fargo - The series needed a good pirate in the cast and I think Fargo is about as good as we can hope for. Invincible is a great Tech too. He could certainly use more story time to really shine.

Glenn - There's too much left unsaid with Glenn and not just his ubiquitous name. He should also be able to wield ANY two swords together.

Grobyc - Who knew they could actually improve on Robo's awesomeness by creating a cyborg of all things? Give him more Techs that harken back to them fancy R-series robots and he'd be perfect (not that laser hair ISN'T perfect, but it'd certainly be more fun)...also get rid of that stupid non-accent and give him some more relevance and meaning plot-wise.

Harle - Make the whole get back your party with the Chrono Cross actually WORTH A DAMN by letting you use it as early as possible so that Harle can actually be a contributing member of the party for the entire game. She's one of the coolest and one of the only well developed characters of the lot. She deserves it...The alt endings with her were great too even.

Karsh - I personally am one of the few people who's not that big of a fan of Karsh. Besides the awesome scene with Dario & Riddel where he throws down the bellflower I found him rather uninteresting...More screentime would help him I think.

Marcy - Just cause I've got a soft spot for her because of Magness more than anything else...Though I think as a concept she's actually one of the most interesting characters in the cast.

Nikki - Slash is an insanely better name than "Nikki" for one. I don't care about the Mystics. They should have just retconned their names back to what they originally were. Anyways, I think GrandFinale is just a great looking Tech...It should be Guitars, not "Picks" though...who the fuck thought that was a smart move? Each one could have a different style and sound when he attacked even...Maybe he'd start out with an acoustic or something. :lol:

Norris - Another one like Karsh that I'm not too fond of. He's always just sorta there for some reason and we never really get to know much about him. Shame since he's got a cool named group and access to a bunch of info Chrono fans probably want.

Sprigg - I love Dopplegangs. She's also got a few good quotes, but needs more story and development like everyone else...

Viper - I guess I'd throw him on the list, though I think he's on the short-end. I'd be fine with giving him more story (maybe through some of the other characters on the list though) and just keeping him NPC.

Everyone else can fuckoff to NPC Land. idc if the Elemental alignment is thrown off either as it really never mattered.

Oh maybe you should make it Mojo/Mojoy...
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: utunnels on June 28, 2009, 04:55:38 am
HAHA, I clicked Serge at last and then submit, but it said I chose too many options, so I deleted Serge.

Serge -  Oh well, if I chose him, that's because he's the protagonist. I didn't choose him, also because he's the protagonist. You just can't get rid of him. I prefer the RD version of him.
Kid - Heheh...there's no other dagger users? Well, you know that's not the reason.
Guile - A dark wizard, must have one in an RPG.
Lynx - Well, the Catputer, that's what makes up more than half of Cross's story.
Doc - An important NPC, but do we need a healer while there are lots of healing elements?
Draggy - Sorry, I don't like Reptiles.
Fargo - A pirate, yes, recruit him! And I love his backstory.
Funguy - No interests at all.
Glenn - Best designed character IMO.
Greco - I chose him, because I like wrestler characters.
Grobyc - Unique and good backstories.
Harle - No need to say, VERY important to the story line. Although I sort of hate her because she raided Lucca's orphanage, but that also makes a mellow story.
Irenes - Decent NPC, but I never used her.
Janice - Cool, a monster trainer! But wait, she can't capture nor train monster to fight at all.
Karsh - Well, one of my favorite characters.
Korcha - Being a boatman is enough.
Leah - Unique. But to be honest, she's not as good as Ayla. All her techs target only single enemy...
Leena - Sweet, but why does she appears more like an NPC? But after all at least you need someone waiting for you at home.
Luccia - Not as cool as Lucca.
Macha - All I did is put her and Orcha in the team and use relief charm to replace Serge with Leena.
Marcy - Can I kill them all? No, you are only 9 you know... besides, I'm not a lolicon.
Mel - Double take is useful. But I don't want too many thieves.
Miki - Never used her.
Mojo - Funny, but not my cup of tea. Voodoo craft is evil.
NeoFio - Weird.
Nikki - Never used him.
Norris - Quite decent character who plays an important role on Porre side. Since Lucca is not available in CC, a gunman is preferred.
Orcha - See Macha.
Orhla - Not bad at all, if I have enough options, maybe.
Pierre - Hmm, he sucks. Glenn should own the medal.
Pip - Don't like animal, but if they made him a summon monster, it would be cool.
Poshul - Same as above.
Radius - An old sword master who gives a strong oriental feeling. And his backstories with Garai is quite decent.
Razzly - Unique but I don't like her.
Riddel - I rarely used her, but I know she's a decent white mage. It would be a pity if she's not playable.
Skelly - A skeleton is cool, but not as a clown... besides, you have to collect those bones, so a direct no.
Sneff - Not really bad to be a playable character, but I don't enjoy him much.
Sprigg  - Doppelgang FTW.
Starky - Weird, do we need an Alien?
Steena - Too NPCish.
Turnip - Interesting, but I really dislike his design...
Van - Never used him, nor visit his house often.
Viper - Well, the leader of Acacia Dragoons. Looks cool, solid, mighty... and I always prefer a big guy like him.
Zappa - How could he sit in his shop while his son is missing?
Zoah - He's one of the reason I didn't choose Marcy, he's a better hand to hand fighter than her.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Lord J Esq on June 28, 2009, 02:39:24 pm
I capped my choices at ten. I made my choices based only somewhat on how much I like the existing characters. More significantly, I put some thought into a diverse and interesting slate of playable characters, so that players could pick novel parties.

Serge, Kid, Lynx, and Harle are the core of the storyline to me, so I do like the idea of them being playable characters. I especially like the whole Serge-becomes-Lynx concept, so that the player actually ends up playing in the body of an enemy character.

I chose Draggy because having a dragon in the party is awesome, and I'm strongly in favor of left-handed characters—or, in this case, left-clawed characters. He's a little bit cutesy, though. I think, in a reconceived Chrono Cross, he would need a little more of that “friendly viciousness” that makes dragons so appealing.

I chose Razzly because having a playable faerie seems like a natural fit for the diverse Chrono Cross playable cast. Plus, her playability in a revised, smaller playable cast would allow the faeries to get more story focus, which I would have liked.

There's something intriguing about getting to play as Viper, because one does not usually get to play a “king” character (although Ayla helped blaze the trail way back in 1995).

Riddel would be a nice touch; it'd be the first instance I know of of a father and daughter being playable in one's party at the same time. She and Viper together are good representatives of the whole Viper Clan / Termina / Acacia Dragoon aspect of the game.

I picked Sprigg because the Temporal Vortest (I always think of it as the “Cleft of Dimension”) was a fascinating hour in the game and she seemed to have more character than your average two-bit playable Cross character. Her story definitely wants to be expanded upon. Plus, left-handed!

I picked Van because having a passionate artist in the playable cast makes a lot of sense for Chrono Cross. And, yes, he's left-handed. =)

Kid is ambidextrous (and fought left-handed in RD, at least according to the artwork (http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/1/10/Rdzealruins.png)) and Razzly is a question mark, which would potentially make half the cast not not left-handed, which would be awesome. That would be in keeping with Chrono Trigger, where Crono himself, Frog, and potentially Ayla were left-handed.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Zephira on June 28, 2009, 03:19:06 pm
My, now this one was really difficult. After the first five I didn't really care about most of the other characters.

Serge - Well, he's the main character. I really don't care for him that much, but he is the only white innate (that I know of) in the game, so he's there for variety.
Kid - She's more of a main character than Serge since she has actual character development and a good story. I enjoyed using her in the beginning of the game, and I'm using her at the end just because it feels like I'm supposed to, but she's not exactly someone I'd want in my party all the time.
Guile - My first choice, of course. He has close to no story at all within the game, but the possibilities outside of Cross and the resemblance to Magus (and being a shadow innate) make him my favourite.
Karsh - He uses a big axe. What's more awesome than that? He was a great powerhouse in my team when I couldn't use Guile, he has a fairly good story, and I don't know what the other green innates are.
Lynx - Sweet, another black innate! Running around as Lynx was really awesome. I wish we got the option to keep Lynx's body instead of switching back as Serge, because I like this model a whole lot more.

After this, I got stuck. There were one or two other characters that I really used, but I kinda forgot which ones they were. It took quite a while to get up to 18 from here.

Draggy - He's a dragon and he's cute. More of a novel character than anything else (plus Guile walking a dragon on a leash would be too cool)
Fargo - For the whole time that Serge was Lynx, Fargo and Karsh were my main team. Fargo's a pirate, he's a water innate and could use that really good cure spell, and he's got a really cool sidequest and story.
Grobyc - He's a cyborg with an interesting design. I never actually used him, but I did like him.
Norris - I used him for one dungeon. He was fun.
Orlha - I honestly don't remember who this is, but she's one of my friend's favourite characters and I needed some more to get to 18.
Pierre - I never even met Pierre in game, but I like what I've seen of him on the Encyclopedia here, and he's also that friend's favourite character.
Radius - He's an old, awesome sword master. Every game needs a badass old guy.
Riddel - I never used her, but she's pretty and I liked her in RD.
Sneff - Sneff is Guile's bitch. He is needed.
Starky - He's a cute little alien, he helps with the boat, and he's shadow innate! Win all around.
Steena - I like her design, but I only used her when she was required.
Viper - Yet another badass old dude. He's got a great design too, but he could use more story.
Zappa - Same as above. Plus, giant hammer!
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 28, 2009, 08:23:54 pm
Pierre - Hmm, he sucks. Glenn should own the medal.

I always figured Serge should since he actually gets the Masamune...well, the Mastermune, anyways...Seems like it would have some kind of negative effect for Glenn since the Einlanzers are supposed to be the opposing force to the Masamune...

Serge - Well, he's the main character. I really don't care for him that much, but he is the only white innate (that I know of) in the game, so he's there for variety.

Riddel, Starky, Steena & Pip are the others in the playable cast, but yeah, Serge is the best.

Guile - My first choice, of course. He has close to no story at all within the game, but the possibilities outside of Cross and the resemblance to Magus (and being a shadow innate) make him my favourite.

Fargo - For the whole time that Serge was Lynx, Fargo and Karsh were my main team. Fargo's a pirate, he's a water innate and could use that really good cure spell, and he's got a really cool sidequest and story.

Elements aren't the same as Magic, their innates are colors, not Magics. ;)

Karsh - He uses a big axe. What's more awesome than that? He was a great powerhouse in my team when I couldn't use Guile, he has a fairly good story, and I don't know what the other green innates are.

Razzly, Glenn, Radius, Sprigg, Turnip, NeoFio and Van are the others.

Orlha - I honestly don't remember who this is, but she's one of my friend's favourite characters and I needed some more to get to 18.

You don't have to vote for 18...>_>

Zeph, you seem to be judging them based on a lot of them you didn't even get...While your opinions are more than likely still valid, it's a bit much even for these mostly shoddy characters not to at least know what little is given of them first...! :lol:
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Mr Bekkler on June 28, 2009, 09:58:28 pm
I think a big "mystery" to be solved in the plot should be what happened to the originals from CT. This can be woven into the story earlier AND better, as a lot of characters from Cross know or are references to CT characters.


Most important:

Serge - Make him talk though.
Kid - Tone down the accent.
Lynx - Less enmity. More personality quirks.



Best Supporting:

Guile - If he could be a bit less...flamboyant, that'd be great.
Fargo - Arrr.
Glenn - I want to see more connection to the other Glenn, as he's the only Frog reference that isn't at all lame. And more backstory.
Grobyc - He had to have been the result of something coming back from the future. Or remnants of Zealian technology. Or something!
Harle - Pretty much displays the most personality in the whole game.
Leah - More clarification on origins! Is she Ayla's mother or is Ayla her mother? Plus she's a chance for some Reptites to be inserted.
Luccia - A chance to get to know what happened to Lucca. Also, she needs more backstory.
Nikki - I never saw what the big deal is, but a lot of people find him to be a necessary character. I guess the concert is pretty cool.
Pierre - Tata reference! Awesome. He should have been Glenn's brother or something though.
Radius - Reminds me of the old man in FF6 that joins. It's good to have a "guru" type on your team once in a while.
Riddel - The closest to Marle anybody gets. Unless you count Kid, but I find the Australian accent and the Schala connection to be enough to make her VERY much NOT Marle
Sprigg - As said before, DOPPLE GANG HER.
Van - I like the idea of an artist on the team, but he definitely needs to step it up a knotch and get some better characterization. Plus he reminds me of Janus a bit.
Viper - Beefy!
Zoah - Extra Beefy!



Didn't make the cut:

Doc - Who needs a hippie surfer healer anyway?
Draggy - Eh. Too cutesy for me. Never used him.
Funguy - A callback to Frog, but not a very good one.
Greco - To me this is the antithesis of the Chrono series. I abhor Greco. If he were an eccentric NPC, that's one thing. But I feel like as a playable character, he's a perfect example at how often they seemed to be "grasping at straws" in that they needed a bunch of ideas for characters, and QUICK!
Irenes - A cool idea, but not cool enough for the top 18. Besides, what's she doing out of water?
Janice - Looking at her hands actually DISTURBS me.
Karsh - Too close to Guile in the visual area, but cool enough to pop up as a regular NPC (a la Toma)
Korcha - There's no reason for him to get out of that boat.
Leena - NPC
Macha - NPC
Marcy - An interesting idea, but she's kind of annoying.
Mel - Would be cooler if her "mysterious" origin was that she was actually Crono and Marle's kid or something, and was lost during the FoG.
Miki - NPC
Mojo - Kind of gets in the way of suspension of disbelief.
Neo-Fio - Would have been better as Luccia's summon or something.
Norris - We already have an awesome knight. His name is Glenn. But I would consider him to be another Toma style recurring NPC!
Orcha - Why is this whole CHA clan on the roster? Who's watching their house?!
Orhla - Basically a watered down Kid mixed with Magus who looks like Sailor Moon. NOTHX.
Pip - You mean Eevee?
Poshul - This thing deserves to be shot and stuffed and given to a child for its birthday.
Razzly - I don't believe in fairies. I don't, I don't.
Skelly - I actually think collecting the pieces of him was pretty cool, but would work better as a side-quest, not as a character recruit. Maybe after he gets collected his mom could give you some decent item.
Sneff - A lame combination of Guile and Fargo. Plus he looks homeless.
Starky - I like the idea of Starky hanging around as an NPC, and had an idea that maybe Starky's race actually planted Nu's as observation devices, biologically functional interstellar cameras, or something of the sort. It'd be neat to see a connection there.
Steena - NPC
Turnip - Another callback to Frog, but again, not a very good one.
Zappa - He should stick around as a blacksmith. We already have Viper and Zoah. We don't need another HULK.
Magil - Would be cool as a secret character, only accessible in Chronopolis maybe.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: maggiekarp on June 29, 2009, 12:10:26 am
AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR MY CHOICES TO BE KNOWN

bum dada-daaa!

_____________


Serge - His RD counterpart, though.

Kid - See above

Guile - While I'm always screeching for Magil, I think for the sake of the story it can be either Magil or Guile as long as they finally come out and say "Guile is Magus". So really I just want Magus after he gets a mask, hurr.

Fargo - You'd think this would be an obvious choice, but I could still see this guy just being an important NPC. I choose him more because he's the badass relative of another choice and you always need a "guy with transportation" character.

Glenn - I could easily switch this one for Karsh, but I decided to go with the more popular Deva. I think whichever one is chosen could be vastly improved by being the only Deva focused on as a PC. In the end I might be happiest with a bizarre Glenn/Karsh hybrid.

Harle - A bigger connection needs to be made between her and Kid and Schala, but I think she'd be an interesting companion for Lynx and Serge. She needs a more satisfying ending, as well.

Nikki - I loved the concert scene in Cross, but I really think more could have been done with this guy. Especially if you keep Serge as his RD counterpart who was an ex-musician, I think it'd be interesting if they were former bandmates. There's also the whole "the Chrono Cross plays a song to free Schala" thing, and I think he could have played a big part in a similar scenario.

Norris - This is a cool character who needs more playtime. I think that a lot more insight could be given into the whole RISE OF PORRE thing if one of their soldiers was a main character, but I also think he'd make a better "Lucca substitute" than Luccia. He's sort of like a Knight with a gun, and his being in the party could provide some interesting interaction with my last choice.

Riddel - Preferably a combination of her RD and CC roles. I think if she had more of her RD storyline, it'd make more sense for her to join Serge in the first place. She has potential I'd like to see more of, and I'd like to see her as a character more than "Da Deva's Dickhole".

Other - ...One of the surviving royalty of the Fall of Guardia, either Crono as Miguel or Marle-who-refuses-to-die. Guile/Magil, while Magusy, don't really provide a strong enough connection to the first game since he's more focused on Schala/Kid and living a different life. I think having either Crono or Marle on the roster would please a lot of people, answer a lot of questions, and provide some awesome double/triple techs.



As you can see, I only picked ten, but the rest would make neat NPCs.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Truthordeal on June 29, 2009, 12:46:10 am
My choices are:

Serge-He's the protagonist after all. He is invaluable to the plot, and he's awesome in a fight too. He's also a strong White Innate, which there are fewer of in this game.

Kid-Who didn't want to play as Schala in the original Chrono Trigger? Well, now we get the chance, except this one is a bit more vulgar, fiesty and knife wielding. Sounds like a winner to me.

Guile-ZOMG MAGUS!

Lynx-Two words: Forever Zero.

Fargo-There's always something endearing about pirates for me. The freedom of the seas and whatnot, I suppose. Not to mention the sidequest to get his Level 7 tech is probably the best one of the entire Chrono series.

Glenn-ZOMG FROG! No but seriously...two swords, high strength and speed, and can perform one of the few dual and the only triple techs.

Grobyc-Extremely-high-attack-power-plus-a-black-innate-does-for-a-good-character-make.

Karsh-Karsh's side quest with Dario was a great one as well. Honestly, if the character had a decent side quest, I'd include him.

Leena-The unfortunate girl friend. The reason is more fanfictiony than anything, really. I simply like that ship better.

Norris-Gun, dual tech, worthy warrior. Plus he's a somewhat decent Porre man.

Pierre-Pierre's transformation from the bumbling idiot that he is as Tata's descendant to the true warrior that emerges is just awesome.

Pip-Extwemewy high attack powuh and adowabulnesh.

Poshul-Good offenth ath well, Sergie-poo.

Radius-Dude, he was one of the original Devas. Had Garai been a PC, he would be on this list too, simply because I like knights and whatnot. Plus he uses a cane.

Viper-Remember what I said about knights and double swords? Its a very patriotic feeling with Viper, to say the least.

Zoah-I'LL BE HONEST. I WANTED A VALID EXCUSE TO USE ALL CAPS HERE AND ZOAH GIVES ME SUCH A REASON. BESIDES THAT, HE'S A VERY POWERFUL YELLOW INNATE AND ONE OF THE DEVAS.

Other-This may be weird, but I would've liked Belthasar to have been a PC. He could use his time magic and whatnot to kill people.

And of course, no dream cast would be complete without Vic Mignogna as a PC. That was a joke, but still, it would've been interesting.

That's my list.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: ZealKnight on June 29, 2009, 12:47:29 am
Serge - stupid without him
Kid - gotta have
Guile - I believe he is Magus, and I'm waiting for the pudding.
Lynx - i like the body snatcher
Fargo - One of the useful characters, and he could steal plus he contributed to the story
Glenn - A throwback to Frog but he was a cool character which this game was clearly lacking
Grobyc - Basically I love all the throwback characters
Harle - shes important to the story plus i like her final tech
Karsh - I love the viper storyline but i only want a few of them karsh is one of the few
Leah - if you flip the syllables it's ayla
Norris - Norris was cool important and was a throwback to porre
Pip - I liked his evolution, it was like pokemon in the chronoverse
Radius - I only picked him because i like having a lot of characters and wanted to fill the whole thing he was best of the rest, but maybe i should have picked zappa for a red elemental
Riddel - Her techs were pretty good, plus she was a white that was given to you at a point were you had none
Starky - he was cool and you know it, I just wish he was giant in battle, also GO GO STARKY RANGER! his tech was cool
Steena - rocked the dragons girl! she is like a dragoon, and dragons rock
Turnip - .... look at my avatar. I may write a fan fiction connecting him to the Einlanzer and Zeal.(oh it can be done)
Viper - he was strong in battle, and his techs were good to, also he has a unique sword. Unique equipment means you're special.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: utunnels on June 29, 2009, 01:29:45 am
Karsh - He uses a big axe. What's more awesome than that?

Yeah, that's one reason why he's my favorite character. :lol:
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 29, 2009, 09:36:38 am
I know that by saying this they will be voted for reactionarily, but w/e...The Top 10 Worst CC Characters so far are...!

As of 15 voters: The Unloved (0 votes) ~

Doc - The old doctor/surfer character. Priceless. He has one of the stupidest (though it's hard to say since they're all dumb) accents...apparently SoCal exists somewhere in the Chronoverse now...He even looks like an average surfer douche...and he's got all the personality of a frog in a hole.
Claim to Fame - connection to Orhla and/or her sister (I forget), who are characters without doubles in the other dimension (somehow Serge's split caused different sisters to be born or something...???)...That's right, the best thing about him is that he's slightly involved with another sub-par character's story.

Funguy - Ah, the annoying man shaped like a phallus. Perhaps that gave them a good chuckle in the design room..."He's a pen0r! LOL"...Seriously, this guy's got absolutely nothing going on...
Claim to fame - One cool quote derived from his misdirected hatred for Serge & Co., "I'll stalk you through the depths of hell!"

Janice - I HERD U LIEK FURRIES! I kind of do actually, but this one is no dice. The hyper-deformed look just doesn't work for me...She would have actually been really interesting if the Grand Slam didn't suck so bad...and maybe if she could use those monsters outside of it.
Claim to Fame - Carrot weaponry...no wait, that's incredibly stupid. Nevermind, nothing notable.

Korcha - Dumb as a sack of bricks. There can be these characters in RPGs to be the dopey side-kick character sometimes, but usually they don't last or are thankfully NOT PLAYABLE...CC threw caution to the wind and we got to play as this unlovable loser who wields a fishing rod and talks to fish. He's like the Chrono series' answer to Super Friends Aquaman...only he's less useful on land.
Claim to Fame - Gets dissed by Harle in one of her more memorable scenes...

Macha - Not racist at all. Wait, she's Korcha and Mel's mom? Why the hell aren't either of them black at all?? Really stupid Techs...big titturs...seminal words of wisdom...just a very blank slate "Mom" character...Gina was 50x the woman Macha is and far more deserving of being playable...
Claim to Fame - FUCK YOU, KORCHA, SERGE JUST SAID, "I DON'T KNOW" NOT "I CHOOSE NOT TO SAVE KID"!!

Mel - To me, Mel is the other side of the coin for Marcy in terms of the little girl character...She's a brat and part of the CHA clan...She pulls a half-hearted attempt at Yuffsterism and I never get to bitchslap her for it!? Instead we get a LATE GAME thief. One of the few Boomerang users though...Very boring character with nothing going on.
Claim to Fame - Isn't actually teh Yuffster, thank god.

Miki - She joins OUT OF BOREDOM! wtf is that? She's also probably the reason they called him "Nikki" of all things for the localization...stupid rhyming BS...She looks nice and as such should remain a nice looking NPC.
Claim to Fame - she's a part of the kind of cool concert scenario, but an NPC could have played that part just as well...

NeoFio - Plant-based lifeforms in RPGs is nothing new (there's been a couple in the Breath of Fire series)...I think chibi more or less is inevitable (more than half of the BoF ones were). NeoFio is sorta just there though and with Turnip already filling that chibi plant-based role, she becomes rather redundant...too many Green innates and this one ain't special enough to keep around.
Claim to Fame - part of the Double Tech with Turnip that's actually called, get this...TOSSED SALAD~!! That's right, if you've got NeoFio and Turnip's lvl 7 Techs you can make them TOSS TEH SALAD!

Orcha - He's a cook and part of the CHA fam...Not much else to say about him.
Claim to Fame - he's also an EVIL COOK!! Actually, if you could just be the evil Orcha that would be pretty cool...if they had expanded more on his dark side he would have been a decent character even.

Skelly - He's a clown! He's undead for some reason! He's fat in the other dimension (ironical!)! He's got a grandma! You have to plod all over the fucking place getting all the Triforce pieces from Ganondork just to get his stupid ass (which you can only do once Serge is back). It would have been cool if you could play as him regardless of how many pieces you had acquired, but that he'd get more powerful with each one...imagine fighting with just his head! Now THAT would have been cool!
Claim to Fame - he somehow has a Defense stat.

...If we can so easily cut even THIS much fat, why the fuck couldn't they have saved us the trouble? Which one of the development team was responsible for these piles becoming playable...Who looked at Korcha and said, "Hey, I bet the player would get a kick outta playing as this douchebag!"??
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Mr Bekkler on June 29, 2009, 10:18:05 am
...If we can so easily cut even THIS much fat, why the fuck couldn't they have saved us the trouble? Which one of the development team was responsible for these piles becoming playable...Who looked at Korcha and said, "Hey, I bet the player would get a kick outta playing as this douchebag!"??

Well put. Cross's playable characters are like Heroes' people with powers.

At first, it's like two or three, but before you know it, it's everyone you see.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Thought on June 29, 2009, 12:24:35 pm
Karsh - He uses a big axe. What's more awesome than that?

Being a compelling and interesting character? ;)

Anywho, my list:

The Chosen Ones

Serge: A terribly interesting weapon and the character with the most potential for having an actual background. For example, why in Lavos' name did Schala give a flying rat's ass about this particular boy who was bitten by a Demon Panther? What IS a Demon Panther? How does his survival destroy the future? Does his continued survival at the end of CC mean that 1999 still has a doomsday?
Kid: Should have had blue hair and a not-Australian accent, but a solid and interesting character. Would have been better if she was the Kid who saved Serge, but meh.
Guile: He floats and uses telekinesis. That's just cool. The Magic Guild bits were interesting and I'm sure some fans could turn that into a beautiful background story.
Lynx: I like the RD version better. He suffers from Darth Vader syndrome, and he is a cat (which alone nearly made me drop him), but he isn't just evil, he's a biological interface for an evil Computer program. One is essentially the other, which is cool.
Fargo: Dunno, maybe because he's a pirate who doesn't talk like a character from a Disney movie? Something about him, from his story to his techs, makes him interesting.
Glenn: Cool character design and his role as the underdog makes him lovable. And those puppy-dog eyes...
Grobyc: Now if only he some exo-frames, he'd be a damn cool character.
Radius: More video games need old geezer's kicking ass.
Sprigg: The female equivalent of Radius.
Turnip: I have a weakness for quasi-medieval-knight-wannabes.

The Not-Quite-As-Chosen Ones (every game has those characters that don't really pull their weight as playable characters but get included because the designers want variety. These are the Jean [BOF II], Gau [FF 6], and Tia [Lufia II] of the CC world)

Harle: Oddly, a better villain than Lynx was, in my opinion, but to be fair, after Kefka I've had a soft spot for evil clowns. While a great character, she didn't benefit from being playable it seemed.
Norris: Porre, the Black Wind, and all that could have made for a wonderful side theme to the game. Too bad it was cut. Norris could have been a great tie in for that.
Pierre: Comic relief. Games generally don't need comic relief. However, as far as it goes, he's one of the better such characters I've seen. Certainly better than Solt and Peppor. And he is a sort of endearing buffoon, too.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Romana on June 29, 2009, 12:54:47 pm
Serge - Protagonist.
Kid - Same here.
Guile - He provides a nice early mage for the party and he really stands out. Plus there's the whole might-be-Magus thing. That and he's a popular choice for Viper Manor.
Fargo - He gets a great bit of development and has his uses as a thief while Kid's absent.
Glenn - He's fairly important and developed, most people like him, and he's unique in that he involves the Einlanzer/s.
Grobyc - The party needs variety, and a robot with a backstory and style is a nice addition.
Harle - She's very important and goes without saying.
Karsh - If any of the Devas should join, it's him. He also has some development and is a recurring character, so the excuse is all there. Oh, and cool axe.
Nikki - He has a connection to one of the Devas and there's the optional scenes with his father. I chose him on my first run, so I have a soft spot for him. Plus he's pretty cool.
Norris - He's important, willing to help you, and the party needs someone with a gun, right...? Also interesting to have a Porre guy turn to you.
Pierre - Pierre is interesting and displays the qualities of a CT-style dreamer. He has the Hero's Medal and becomes powerful if you collect his Hero equipment, so he's unique and also provides some comic relief and variety.
Radius - Radius has plenty of development and significance, so he's vital, especially due to Garai and the Masamune.
Riddel - She has the connection to Glenn and Dario, and she fills the role of a typical support mage, although she joins fairly far into the game.
Sprigg - Sprigg is another unique character in the same vein as the examples Thought gave (e.g. Gau). Plus she's intriguing and helps you out of that distortion.
Starky - He helps you get to Terra Tower, he's got more involvement with the party prior to joining than most, and he's an alien! More variety and another White innate.
Steena - Steena's a favourite of mine, and her involvement is arguably justification...? And thank christ she uses a normal weapon.

I wanted to aim for a little less than 16 characters but there we go. Pip, Turnip and Viper are others I'd consider.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: ONSLAUGHT on June 29, 2009, 12:59:56 pm
Thought! I'm ashamed at your thoughts of Harle! It makes me sad :(.

Anyway here's my list.

Serge: Loads of potential, I prefer the RD one but this one was very cool in his own right and could be a lot more if it weren't for the fact all these extra guys make him seem whipped what with his sucking up and doing favors for everyone for the whole game. He doesn't get a chance to be himself in all his chores.
Kid: As everyone's said, gem. Amazing, duh. Why NOT include her?
Guile: I suppose with his magic guild he could have more to him. Plus the wondering of just whether or not he's freaking Magus, put an end to that bull and beating around the bush!
Lynx: I thought that twist on the story was an amazingly well done one. For some reason I think Breath Of Fire during the scene but, eh, it's still unforgettable. Plus it helps with the story itself. Kepp the Serge as Lynx thing I say.
Draggy: You deal with the dragon thing at the very begining. Variety, and I just like Draggy. Plus c'mon, who can say they hate playing as a dragon?
Glenn: This one should be self explanatory but just in case, TWO swords at once. Already a great character with an unbelievable amount of potential. Why not?
Grobyc: He's Robo, with improvements. And how awesome is laser hair of death? In a way I feel like he's Terminator for Chrono. And he kicks ass. :)
Harle: Of course this would be here. Harle deserves it as in my opinion the best part of the whole game. Beautiful, witty, and deadly. Harlequins just get me after Harle.
Karsh: He had a lot of potential that just remained untapped. Also he helps the Dario story. Although honestly I never got into Karsh as much. It was either him, or naked, veiny, disgustingly ripped man Zoah.
Leena: She starts off as your girlfriend. Sure, bitchy as she is in your homeworld, she's supposed to be one of the bigger characters. With all the extras she doesn't get that chance and if she was just an NPC, imagine how much time she'd actually get in. Begining of the game. Nothing else.
Mojo: I found him funny. Also a little variety. Plus a little more original. I'll admit, he barely made it. Last one picked and I had to flip a coin on yes or no.
Razzly: Razzly's a great character for her character. Reason I say yes to being on the team is honestly, everyone she knows is dead in her world. I don't think Serge and friends woud be exactly the proper heroes if they saved her miserable life just to leave her to rot and probably die. Only option left is to take her in!
Sprigg:
Doppleganger. Not entirely necessary since it's Harle that gets you out the the trippy dimension. But I suppose Sprigg still offers up some orginality. Plus it's fun when you can be a really old person fighting. And not like how Lost Oddysey did it either, your age actually shows.
Starky:
Starky allows your ship to fly! Plus, cute little alien, some variety for elemnt wise,Plus the possibilities of Chrono In Space!!!!!!!!!!
Turnip: First off, how many games have important characters that are vegetables? Exactly. Chrono hit a new level of original with Turnip. He behaves exactly like Frog in Trigger. Plus in a technical way, Lucca's freeze gun, putting that to use Turnip is almost like Lucca's last Hurrah! Plus if he were just an NPC, what point would there be to him?

And that's my pick.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: kid123 on June 29, 2009, 01:06:14 pm
Serge - Are there any other excuses for him to be out of the game? Besides that ,some improvement over his character development and more reaction are my number one in list. There are more that could be add to his backstory and most importantly his relation with Schala. I don't get it why Schala choose her among gazillion people of different era, under IMO stereotypical reason, hearing his cry.
I would love to see him talking and has more motivation throughout  Chrono Cross. I have yet  to play RD, but his RD counterpart seem loved by several people. So ditto on maggiekarp's suggestion on Serge.

Kid - She play an important role, cute, lovely, sometime troll  :lol:, but I don't like her skimpy outfit......
My complaint about her, why the heck she still love Serge after all the stuff he has done? Stab her, neglected her in majority of the game, leave her alone and many more, despite the subtle hint of her love along the game event. And more Schala-ish plz. I love how she had some of Schala's
character after healed from poison, she is nice toward Mel even though she stole her Element grid.

Guile - He is Magus, what more I could say ? I don't like his love of alcohol and majestic value but love to see he as an enigma person like Magil.

Last but not least, I love to see Serge and Guile join the Radical Dreamer before intruding Viper Manor as reference to RD.

Norris- Gun armed, high ranking officer of Porre and the leader of fearsome elite unit of Blackwind. This excuses should be enough.

Karsh - Ditto Zephira.

Lynx - Catputer, and an interesting villian if using the concept of Darth Vader more splendidly otherwise. I would love if he receieve more hate from bystander.Because when Serge switch body wih Lynx, Serge will have a more hard time communicating with other people.

Harle - Agree with Thought, for her being a better villian. A more story about her fate should be enough.

Riddel - Daughter of Viper and love her nobility.

Fargo - Captain Obvious is not obvious enough. Who doesn't like pirate?

Glenn - Double wielder of the rival of Masamune, Einlanzer. Should have some character development though.

Leah - Yeah for Ayla chibi! Add more her backstory and more tech that resemble prehistoric.

Sprigg - Same reason as the other,Doppleganger
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Lord J Esq on June 29, 2009, 06:54:23 pm
Kid has a perfect streak going so far. Not even Serge got a vote from all 18 voters. (WTF?)

And I forgot about Orlha! I might have to up my cap to eleven. That's right...we're going to eleven!
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 29, 2009, 07:55:14 pm
The Not-Quite-As-Chosen Ones (every game has those characters that don't really pull their weight as playable characters but get included because the designers want variety. These are the Jean [BOF II], Gau [FF 6], and Tia [Lufia II] of the CC world)

If you thought Gau wasn't pulling his weight you were using him wrong.

Guile - He provides a nice early mage for the party and he really stands out. Plus there's the whole might-be-Magus thing. That and he's a popular choice for Viper Manor.

idk if it's that he's the "popular" choice so much as he's the closest to the entrance to Termina and also the easiest to recruit of the 3...I got Nikki my first go too though.

Turnip: First off, how many games have important characters that are vegetables? Exactly. Chrono hit a new level of original with Turnip.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned the Breath of Fire series...Spar/Aspara Gus (BoF2) and especially Peco (BoF3)...

I still don't think Lynx should be separate on the list from Serge...I mean, you don't get to play Lynx, you get to play Serge AS Lynx. If you don't want Serge to transform into Lynx, that's a whole 'nother story, isn't it and has nothing to really do with which playable characters you think should or should not be cut. It's only an argument against story elements, really...and the option only leaves people confused and voting thinking they ARE voting for playable villain or something...
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: utunnels on June 30, 2009, 01:37:56 am
The Not-Quite-As-Chosen Ones (every game has those characters that don't really pull their weight as playable characters but get included because the designers want variety. These are the Jean [BOF II], Gau [FF 6], and Tia [Lufia II] of the CC world)

If you thought Gau wasn't pulling his weight you were using him wrong.

FF6 is another game I've played that have MANY characters.
But yeah, sometimes you have to split into 2/3 groups, that somehow gives a reason to have more than 3 characters.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: anonymouse on June 30, 2009, 02:08:21 am
Not to mention that the FF6 characters had distinct personalities and backstories, some more developed than others. Even having played FF6 many years ago and Chrono Cross only this year, FF6's characters remain a lot fresher in my mind.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Lord J Esq on June 30, 2009, 04:20:44 am
That's definitely how I see it, too. FFVI's characterizations were amazing; to this day they remain my favorite of any RPG. Fourteen playable characters was pretty huge, too, and only one of them (Gogo) fell completely flat. Hell, even Mog and Umaro (who doesn't even speak) had some life to them.

In contrast, characterization always struck me as Chrono Trigger's major weak spot. Chrono Cross was even flatter. These games have a lot going for them, but not this.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Shee on June 30, 2009, 05:33:35 am
First half of FFVI was damn sweet.  But I think it weakened at the end, while Chrono Trigger grows stronger as the game progresses.  As for Cross, I haven't finished it yet!  So I can't really comment too much.  But a gripe I have, about halfway, 2/3 through the thing, is htat I feel some scenes/emotions are too rushed.  Could use some fleshing.  That's just me.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 30, 2009, 04:04:10 pm
I thought Crono & Co. were better on par than FFVI's characters. There was just more interaction with them comparatively...Though you might have to NG+ and switch your party around at various points to see it all...Some in FFVI (the oft pointed at losers in character development: Mog, Umaro and Gogo barely ever say anything...Umaro DOES speak btw, Lord J) only had a small opening scene and then they'd say something on the airship...and maybe a vs. Kefka quote...They both did an amazing job with Character Development.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Lord J Esq on June 30, 2009, 04:17:43 pm
Umaro DOES speak btw

Golly, I don't remember that at all. Whatever lines he had must not've been Hamlet material.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Shee on June 30, 2009, 04:20:26 pm
Lord J that could be the biggest understatement ever.  Dude makes Ayla look like Ophelia.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Thought on June 30, 2009, 05:29:31 pm
The Not-Quite-As-Chosen Ones (every game has those characters that don't really pull their weight as playable characters but get included because the designers want variety. These are the Jean [BOF II], Gau [FF 6], and Tia [Lufia II] of the CC world)

If you thought Gau wasn't pulling his weight you were using him wrong.

Depends on what you mean. As a fighting character, Gau could be one of the most powerful characters. But he joins the party in the World of Balance because Sabin gave him jerky or bait or whatever. And he rejoins in the World of Ruin because there is room in the party at the time. Hardly commendable motivations. Though to be fair, he still had a better reason to join than a lot of the CC characters (the Kitchen Sink as a playable character was just barely cut from the final product, I hear). And his comic relief was relatively well done for a video game (easily out distancing Solt and Peppor, in my opinion).

It isn't that Gau, same with the Not-Quite-As-Chosen-Ones, was a bad character. Just not my first string picks. They can be endearing, but remove them from the game and not much changes.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: V_Translanka on June 30, 2009, 05:49:52 pm
By the WoR Gau is already the party's friend though (the Veldt just makes him a lil loopy in the head)...and he IS a child and very innocent at that. He joins because Sabin & Cyan are nice to him where he's had to live in the wild, among monsters his entire life with everyone else fearing him (even his own father!)...But yeah, I mostly was thinking power-wise...I guess he's not necessary, but his WoR scene with his father is one of the game's most touching (that brave lil guy!) and I wouldn't want the game w/o it or him.
Title: Re: Cross Characters
Post by: Truthordeal on June 30, 2009, 05:57:25 pm
By the WoR Gau is already the party's friend though (the Veldt just makes him a lil loopy in the head)...and he IS a child and very innocent at that. He joins because Sabin & Cyan are nice to him where he's had to live in the wild, among monsters his entire life with everyone else fearing him (even his own father!)...But yeah, I mostly was thinking power-wise...I guess he's not necessary, but his WoR scene with his father is one of the game's most touching (that brave lil guy!) and I wouldn't want the game w/o it or him.

You get to use General Leo's tech with him.

'Nuff said.